How should I manage the end of this marriage right now?
June 4, 2023 3:38 AM Subscribe
It’s super complicated and my husband is extremely difficult to deal with. He says he loves me but from the rest of what he says I don’t think that’s probably true and he’s pretty confused and unhappy - life is hard right now.
My husbands behavior started to change a lot the last could have years. He seemed a lot more unhappy. Lots of heavy breathing and somatic complaints. Lots of time in bed. He’s been quite unstable in general with his work and with friends. He’s very misanthropic. He doesn’t like the country we live in and he wants to go home. He feels like that is the answer to his problems and would fix all his feelings BUT I don’t think it would because there are so many troubling signs of deep issues and if we went there then I would lose the support here…
For example when I wanted to talk to him about dealing with the behaviour of our then 4/5 autistic son I wanted to suggest the parenting classes but he shut the conversation down by suggesting foster care or a new family. With a straight face. Then he said sorry and said he just thought we were bad parents and maybe there was another better nice family. I disagreed. But then he did it again maybe a year later. So it’s ongoing uncooperative . Or passive aggressiveness.
Over the marriage he hasn’t been flexible about making relationships with my friends or seeing my family and having relationships with them etc. he hasn’t been a partner in the parenting and over the years this has escalated sadly. He went to a psychiatrist 2 years ago and didn’t go back and says he’ll start therapy but doesn’t organize it.
What is bothering me now, I guess is that now that he’s finally talking- the person he is describing me as is pretty awful. I have chronic migraine and cleaning is tough for me and at some point I just kind of did the best I could but with two kids and the pandemic it was hard and he took that and just went with it making me sound like a utter slob. Always remarking back to a line I said on our first dates that I didn’t like cleaning bathrooms etc. I asked him repeatedly to stop but he wouldn’t. For months
Then I’m a bit of a social chameleon that can get a long with anyone and now he’s used that description to say: look, you aren’t a genuine person! See! You were a fake! All is meant was that I was as happy in jeans at a dive bar as I was at a cocktail party.
Another time he said out of the blue: won’t it be nice if you get a good inheritance and then everyone will realize you were worth marrying after all. I was like: im sorry, what?
And he’s said that I wish he was dead, am just trying to get him out of the house and take his money… making him a wage slave etc. that I don’t care about the children, that I’m just making up their special needs like I’m a manchausen mom or something… and none of that is true… i logically explain how it happened back to him but he just doesn’t take it on board.
It seems to be escalating because last week I told him I wanted to be friendly with the neighbors across the road so the kids could play but when the mom came over he went up behind me and basically told them to leave, I was horrified… then the next week…
He had a major meltdown during the kids school assembly last week and left early ( I won’t give identifying details) but then 2 days later he’s like normal and said he just can’t be pushed into psychosis “ by” me and if I want a fresh start in my home country then I should go to that and he won’t stop me.
I was like, okay thanks.
That Sunday we went to a park with the kids and I had to discipline my older child over not listening on the par cour and my husband stood there like a statue with his eyes closed… and I asked him if he was going to just stand there with his eves closed and he said yes. Then he walked
away and later said that he was petrified hearing me criticize my son. But…. It was normal mom stuff.
Then again yesterday I read him a passage from a Japanese therapy book he seemed interested in and he said the same thing, that I’d triggered him and knew I could go home if I want and went up to his room and shut the door.
This morning he said that I haven’t cared about him in years or about who he is or anything. But when I said that I was sorry but I’ve been very sick a couple of years and also raising children is a blur- it’s only now that I’m beginning to even reach out to old friends and even consider my own wishes… he might not have had his needs met but I also hadn’t prioritized my own.
I mean? What is going on objective observers? I’m worried about dementia? Some other mental illness? A disordered person who hasn’t gotten what they expected out of life and is unhappy?
Peppered in all this is how much he cares about the kids and how they matter and we need to just be civil for an unspecified amount of time and can then go to couples therapy. But. I feel like there is soooooooo much inside him that it’s not going to work.
Personally I’ve been having intensive treatment for ptsd (mostly down to this I think) and the kids are in therapy and I just need to figure out the path. But I am massively vacillating between being super worried about him and then thinking this person is DANGER.
I’ve been putting out my feelers for months now with lawyers and floating my options but I’m curious what you all make of this. Have you ever met a man like this?
My husbands behavior started to change a lot the last could have years. He seemed a lot more unhappy. Lots of heavy breathing and somatic complaints. Lots of time in bed. He’s been quite unstable in general with his work and with friends. He’s very misanthropic. He doesn’t like the country we live in and he wants to go home. He feels like that is the answer to his problems and would fix all his feelings BUT I don’t think it would because there are so many troubling signs of deep issues and if we went there then I would lose the support here…
For example when I wanted to talk to him about dealing with the behaviour of our then 4/5 autistic son I wanted to suggest the parenting classes but he shut the conversation down by suggesting foster care or a new family. With a straight face. Then he said sorry and said he just thought we were bad parents and maybe there was another better nice family. I disagreed. But then he did it again maybe a year later. So it’s ongoing uncooperative . Or passive aggressiveness.
Over the marriage he hasn’t been flexible about making relationships with my friends or seeing my family and having relationships with them etc. he hasn’t been a partner in the parenting and over the years this has escalated sadly. He went to a psychiatrist 2 years ago and didn’t go back and says he’ll start therapy but doesn’t organize it.
What is bothering me now, I guess is that now that he’s finally talking- the person he is describing me as is pretty awful. I have chronic migraine and cleaning is tough for me and at some point I just kind of did the best I could but with two kids and the pandemic it was hard and he took that and just went with it making me sound like a utter slob. Always remarking back to a line I said on our first dates that I didn’t like cleaning bathrooms etc. I asked him repeatedly to stop but he wouldn’t. For months
Then I’m a bit of a social chameleon that can get a long with anyone and now he’s used that description to say: look, you aren’t a genuine person! See! You were a fake! All is meant was that I was as happy in jeans at a dive bar as I was at a cocktail party.
Another time he said out of the blue: won’t it be nice if you get a good inheritance and then everyone will realize you were worth marrying after all. I was like: im sorry, what?
And he’s said that I wish he was dead, am just trying to get him out of the house and take his money… making him a wage slave etc. that I don’t care about the children, that I’m just making up their special needs like I’m a manchausen mom or something… and none of that is true… i logically explain how it happened back to him but he just doesn’t take it on board.
It seems to be escalating because last week I told him I wanted to be friendly with the neighbors across the road so the kids could play but when the mom came over he went up behind me and basically told them to leave, I was horrified… then the next week…
He had a major meltdown during the kids school assembly last week and left early ( I won’t give identifying details) but then 2 days later he’s like normal and said he just can’t be pushed into psychosis “ by” me and if I want a fresh start in my home country then I should go to that and he won’t stop me.
I was like, okay thanks.
That Sunday we went to a park with the kids and I had to discipline my older child over not listening on the par cour and my husband stood there like a statue with his eyes closed… and I asked him if he was going to just stand there with his eves closed and he said yes. Then he walked
away and later said that he was petrified hearing me criticize my son. But…. It was normal mom stuff.
Then again yesterday I read him a passage from a Japanese therapy book he seemed interested in and he said the same thing, that I’d triggered him and knew I could go home if I want and went up to his room and shut the door.
This morning he said that I haven’t cared about him in years or about who he is or anything. But when I said that I was sorry but I’ve been very sick a couple of years and also raising children is a blur- it’s only now that I’m beginning to even reach out to old friends and even consider my own wishes… he might not have had his needs met but I also hadn’t prioritized my own.
I mean? What is going on objective observers? I’m worried about dementia? Some other mental illness? A disordered person who hasn’t gotten what they expected out of life and is unhappy?
Peppered in all this is how much he cares about the kids and how they matter and we need to just be civil for an unspecified amount of time and can then go to couples therapy. But. I feel like there is soooooooo much inside him that it’s not going to work.
Personally I’ve been having intensive treatment for ptsd (mostly down to this I think) and the kids are in therapy and I just need to figure out the path. But I am massively vacillating between being super worried about him and then thinking this person is DANGER.
I’ve been putting out my feelers for months now with lawyers and floating my options but I’m curious what you all make of this. Have you ever met a man like this?
I think you should listen to your DANGER voice. In particular, I don’t think migrating away from friends / family / other supports to a place where he has contacts and you don’t would be wise for you. I can’t tell if this is on the table.
There is a subtype of dementia that strikes in middle age (before age 60) and predominantly features personality change / disinhibition. It’s a pretty rare condition, though; and I agree that we can’t diagnose him with that or anything else.
posted by eirias at 4:05 AM on June 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
There is a subtype of dementia that strikes in middle age (before age 60) and predominantly features personality change / disinhibition. It’s a pretty rare condition, though; and I agree that we can’t diagnose him with that or anything else.
posted by eirias at 4:05 AM on June 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for the questions, I didn’t want to put this information in the question because I was more interested in not complicating it.
1) I inherited a decent sun on money in America this year that could allow us to return BUT I don’t have family there anymore just friends and at the moment the kids don’t have their passports and I don’t have access to the money in any easy way
2) I need to get custody papers (which will allow a move anywhere) from this country which should MAYBE be easy based on all this chatter from him about “go start your new life” so I need to call my lawyer again
So yes…. I Need a few more appointments and my best friend is coming in June and I can talk to her about if she can help me open an account!
posted by flink at 4:09 AM on June 4, 2023
1) I inherited a decent sun on money in America this year that could allow us to return BUT I don’t have family there anymore just friends and at the moment the kids don’t have their passports and I don’t have access to the money in any easy way
2) I need to get custody papers (which will allow a move anywhere) from this country which should MAYBE be easy based on all this chatter from him about “go start your new life” so I need to call my lawyer again
So yes…. I Need a few more appointments and my best friend is coming in June and I can talk to her about if she can help me open an account!
posted by flink at 4:09 AM on June 4, 2023
Response by poster: But can I ask? What about these behaviors is completely atypical? I know they are but I can’t articulate it.
posted by flink at 4:12 AM on June 4, 2023
posted by flink at 4:12 AM on June 4, 2023
Yes, this is all unreasonable. A lot of those behaviours sound like someone I know who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder but refused therapy. It got worse and worse - his wife finally left him when the insults escalated into waking her in the middle of the night and throwing things around, and she should have left at least five years earlier. Thankfully in the end he only turned violence against himself but it was a close call. His GP suspected frontotemporal dementia - he was in his 60s - but a brain MRI didn't turn up anything out of the usual.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 4:33 AM on June 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 4:33 AM on June 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. I've dealt with similar situations in the past and unfortunately from what I know, your partner is not able to provide any support or any next steps for you here. Continuing to wait for your partner to become the partner they promise to be is wasting your future on their lies. I advise you consult with your lawyer and line things up for a very messy custody battle, because people who act like this often get very angry when they know it's going to end, and become unpredictable. LISTEN TO YOUR DANGER SENSE PLEASE. These deeply troubled folk tend to prefer the drama and discord over any amount of possible positive discourse. Listen to your lawyer. Follow their advice. Please update us when you're able to. Be safe 💜
posted by Meagan at 5:23 AM on June 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Meagan at 5:23 AM on June 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
As a migrant you’re extra vulnerable - please connect with support groups for women in abusive relationships and for migrant women in your location. It horrifies me that you have lived there for years but don’t seem to have a bank account. They can also help with that, you don’t have to wait for your friend.
But don’t move your nest egg to where your husband can get to it more easily.
It really doesn’t matter why he is being so completely unreasonable - for your and your children’s welfare it is paramount that you figure out how to get out of the marriage and do so safely.
Please make a habit of documenting all this unreasonable behaviour - that may end up being relevant when a family court has to decide if he is able to look after the children. So make a note at the end of every day, send yourself an email to a new email address or to your friend for safe keeping. Delete them from your sent emails after you send them.
Make sure your lawyer understands the added complications around custody arrangements in abusive and in international marriages. If they don’t the support groups should be able to refer you to people who will.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:50 AM on June 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
But don’t move your nest egg to where your husband can get to it more easily.
It really doesn’t matter why he is being so completely unreasonable - for your and your children’s welfare it is paramount that you figure out how to get out of the marriage and do so safely.
Please make a habit of documenting all this unreasonable behaviour - that may end up being relevant when a family court has to decide if he is able to look after the children. So make a note at the end of every day, send yourself an email to a new email address or to your friend for safe keeping. Delete them from your sent emails after you send them.
Make sure your lawyer understands the added complications around custody arrangements in abusive and in international marriages. If they don’t the support groups should be able to refer you to people who will.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:50 AM on June 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
I got to the part where he joked about giving up hus child and was "nope, time to go" and then the hits kept coming.
Definitely time to work on an exit strategy.
posted by brookeb at 5:53 AM on June 4, 2023 [27 favorites]
Definitely time to work on an exit strategy.
posted by brookeb at 5:53 AM on June 4, 2023 [27 favorites]
The thing where everything that goes wrong in any way is somehow on you? Yeah, my ex-husband was all over that thing. That thing all by itself is enough to leave over. And that's the most minimal of the bad things he's doing.
Please work on getting away from him.
posted by humbug at 7:01 AM on June 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Please work on getting away from him.
posted by humbug at 7:01 AM on June 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
This gets a lot simpler when you realize that love is not something you feel, but a thing you do. So it doesn’t really matter if he says he loves you because his actions are not something anyone would say are loving.
And there may be physiological or psychological reasons for it - but it doesn’t change that he’s lashing out at you in an abusive way and has no interest in owning up to it or seeking help. So there’s no real reason why you would hope for it to change.
Listen to your instincts - you wrote the word danger for a reason. This person’s instability and lack of loving actions are a danger to you and your kids. If not for yourself - the kids are learning what love looks like and I don’t think you will want them to end up in a similar position. Get out now and work on healing with you and your kids.
posted by openhearted at 8:36 AM on June 4, 2023 [22 favorites]
And there may be physiological or psychological reasons for it - but it doesn’t change that he’s lashing out at you in an abusive way and has no interest in owning up to it or seeking help. So there’s no real reason why you would hope for it to change.
Listen to your instincts - you wrote the word danger for a reason. This person’s instability and lack of loving actions are a danger to you and your kids. If not for yourself - the kids are learning what love looks like and I don’t think you will want them to end up in a similar position. Get out now and work on healing with you and your kids.
posted by openhearted at 8:36 AM on June 4, 2023 [22 favorites]
It honestly doesn't matter that he, in his deepest heart, loves you. He's destroying you and your family.
Think of yourself, think of the kids.
What do you want for them? Is it to spend another minute around this man who is a damn menace, who wants to pawn the kids off on someone else, who wants people dead, who wants the relationship to die, who is aggressively isolating you and your children?
Get a lawyer. A good one, they will be expensive. They will be worth it, they will help you get everything in order and then make it happen. It's what they exist for.
posted by Ookseer at 9:06 AM on June 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Think of yourself, think of the kids.
What do you want for them? Is it to spend another minute around this man who is a damn menace, who wants to pawn the kids off on someone else, who wants people dead, who wants the relationship to die, who is aggressively isolating you and your children?
Get a lawyer. A good one, they will be expensive. They will be worth it, they will help you get everything in order and then make it happen. It's what they exist for.
posted by Ookseer at 9:06 AM on June 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
he just can’t be pushed into psychosis “ by” me
Bluntly: I'm concerned for your safety. I have definitely seen the kind of man who is depressed but unwilling to put any effort into coping who sulks in many of the ways you describe. He decides everything is the fault of his wife and the best case scenario is that he pointedly refuses to participate in family life because: you'll see! How much you need me after all!
But this line is odd. Usually it's the wife's fault that the house is a mess, or the kids aren't behaving--normal problems with everyday household functioning. Depression can also come with psychotic features sometimes, and this sounds like a persecutory delusion. I realize I'm hearing this second-hand, but I needed to say something.
posted by praemunire at 9:30 AM on June 4, 2023 [16 favorites]
Bluntly: I'm concerned for your safety. I have definitely seen the kind of man who is depressed but unwilling to put any effort into coping who sulks in many of the ways you describe. He decides everything is the fault of his wife and the best case scenario is that he pointedly refuses to participate in family life because: you'll see! How much you need me after all!
But this line is odd. Usually it's the wife's fault that the house is a mess, or the kids aren't behaving--normal problems with everyday household functioning. Depression can also come with psychotic features sometimes, and this sounds like a persecutory delusion. I realize I'm hearing this second-hand, but I needed to say something.
posted by praemunire at 9:30 AM on June 4, 2023 [16 favorites]
Maybe he’s mentally ill, maybe he’a “just” unhappy, unkind, and mean. Doesn’t matter - either way, he is neither a partner nor a coparent. You and your kids would be better off without him. Given the details involved, yes, go straight back to your lawyer and start talking about exactly how custody, and a potential international move, and your immigrant status, would play out in a divorce. If your lawyer does not have experience with those things, you need one who does.
posted by Stacey at 9:44 AM on June 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 9:44 AM on June 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Don't count on the "start a new life" to mean that he will be OK about you leaving. There is possibility that he can say now as a threat (because he thinks you want to stay married and this will upset you) and then switch into panic if he thinks you might really leave him.
My instinct would be to keep the conversation with lawyer and the early steps secret from him until you know what you want to do and how you are going to go about doing it. He might see this as a betrayal but it protects you from him sabotaging your efforts in this early stage where you aren't quite sure what you want to do next.
Also, be aware that at least in the US, you can not take the children out of the country without permission from their other parent. If there is a divorce you may also need permission of the court to move the kids away. Even moving from one county to another within the same state can require permission so this part of what you need a good lawyer to help you with.
posted by metahawk at 12:18 PM on June 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
My instinct would be to keep the conversation with lawyer and the early steps secret from him until you know what you want to do and how you are going to go about doing it. He might see this as a betrayal but it protects you from him sabotaging your efforts in this early stage where you aren't quite sure what you want to do next.
Also, be aware that at least in the US, you can not take the children out of the country without permission from their other parent. If there is a divorce you may also need permission of the court to move the kids away. Even moving from one county to another within the same state can require permission so this part of what you need a good lawyer to help you with.
posted by metahawk at 12:18 PM on June 4, 2023 [14 favorites]
It sounds as if you have lost track of what's acceptable in a relationship, or at least, lost confidence in your ability to trust your gut that something is very wrong here.
Possibly because your partner has been undermining your confidence in yourself.
There's something very wrong in your relationship. You're not imagining it. Trust your gut.
posted by Zumbador at 1:32 PM on June 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Possibly because your partner has been undermining your confidence in yourself.
There's something very wrong in your relationship. You're not imagining it. Trust your gut.
posted by Zumbador at 1:32 PM on June 4, 2023 [13 favorites]
Good lord. How to say this kindly? From what you've said I think there's a non-zero chance that your husband is mentally unwell enough, and cruel enough, to physically hurt you and/or the kids.
I am sorry to say I know of several cases where the initial fact pattern sounded like this. Immigrant men who feel hard done by by the new country, by their wives, by the limitations set on them by their children. Disappointed, angry, irrational, full of both shame and entitlement... a dangerous mix that leads them to wanting to cause their wife as much pain as possible.
I hope I'm wrong, of course. Anyway, yes, make an exit plan that protects your money and your freedom of movement. DON'T let him know you're working on it. And when it's time to split, don't leave the kids with him alone.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:21 PM on June 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
I am sorry to say I know of several cases where the initial fact pattern sounded like this. Immigrant men who feel hard done by by the new country, by their wives, by the limitations set on them by their children. Disappointed, angry, irrational, full of both shame and entitlement... a dangerous mix that leads them to wanting to cause their wife as much pain as possible.
I hope I'm wrong, of course. Anyway, yes, make an exit plan that protects your money and your freedom of movement. DON'T let him know you're working on it. And when it's time to split, don't leave the kids with him alone.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:21 PM on June 4, 2023 [15 favorites]
I agree with everyone above: this situation is not safe for you and your kids and your priority should be getting yourselves safely away from him.
Your husband is ill. You cannot heal him, or cure him. You CAN help yourself and the kids.
He cannot stabilise himself either. He needs help. From what you’ve said about him and therapy, he doesn’t sound willing or able to get help, or help himself.
So, get yourself and the kids to a safe place. Then, if possible: contact your husband’s doctor. Contact his family, if you are on good terms with any of them. Tell them about the personality changes, and the breakdowns/meltdowns, and that you think he needs care.
That’s all you can do. You say he would like to go home and see his family; maybe, from a safe distance away, you can arrange a plane ticket for him, and sort out the house when he is gone.
If you feel able to do this: before you leave, if your husband owns any guns or other weapons, get them out of the house or disable them. There are YouTube videos for how to remove the firing pin from various types of gun. Turn them in to the police if there's a procedure for that in your country. Even things like sharp kitchen knives, craft knives-- hide them so he can't immediately find them. Or get a friend you trust to do this.
posted by Pallas Athena at 2:33 PM on June 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
Your husband is ill. You cannot heal him, or cure him. You CAN help yourself and the kids.
He cannot stabilise himself either. He needs help. From what you’ve said about him and therapy, he doesn’t sound willing or able to get help, or help himself.
So, get yourself and the kids to a safe place. Then, if possible: contact your husband’s doctor. Contact his family, if you are on good terms with any of them. Tell them about the personality changes, and the breakdowns/meltdowns, and that you think he needs care.
That’s all you can do. You say he would like to go home and see his family; maybe, from a safe distance away, you can arrange a plane ticket for him, and sort out the house when he is gone.
If you feel able to do this: before you leave, if your husband owns any guns or other weapons, get them out of the house or disable them. There are YouTube videos for how to remove the firing pin from various types of gun. Turn them in to the police if there's a procedure for that in your country. Even things like sharp kitchen knives, craft knives-- hide them so he can't immediately find them. Or get a friend you trust to do this.
posted by Pallas Athena at 2:33 PM on June 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
I am so sorry this is happening. This sounds really tough & unfortunately all your options are likely to be bleak.
None of us can diagnose your husband, and you probably can't either. It could be psychosis, could be dementia, could be "just" major depression, could be many things. None of this sounds like normal behavior, even normal a-hole behavior. But you know your husband better than anyone - if you feel this is not his personality but something weirdly off kilter, then trust that feeling.
Unfortunately, the nature of many psychosis, dementia, etc illnesses is that the person suffering from them is unable to realize they are ill. Getting them treatment is often really hard because they refuse to cooperate and, as you've found, say and do terrible hurtful things.
This narrows your options, because the one thing you can't do is continue as things are. You can't keep him safe and your children safe at the same time, while also remaining sane/employed/mentally healthy yourself. If you were on your own, you could stay with the status quo, even if it meant destroying your own life and health. But you have children. You can chose to sacrifice yourself for another adult, but you can't ask a child to do that.
So. In the country you're currently living in, is there such a thing as involuntary psychiatric evaluations and/or confinement? If so, that is an option. You can explain your concerns and his symptoms/history to a doctor and see if he can be given treatment against his will. Or you can give him an ultimatum to get serious about getting a diagnosis and treatment, and to commit to it. Or you leave. Each of these are heartbreakingly difficult and painful things to do, so I really feel for you.
posted by EllaEm at 2:53 PM on June 4, 2023
None of us can diagnose your husband, and you probably can't either. It could be psychosis, could be dementia, could be "just" major depression, could be many things. None of this sounds like normal behavior, even normal a-hole behavior. But you know your husband better than anyone - if you feel this is not his personality but something weirdly off kilter, then trust that feeling.
Unfortunately, the nature of many psychosis, dementia, etc illnesses is that the person suffering from them is unable to realize they are ill. Getting them treatment is often really hard because they refuse to cooperate and, as you've found, say and do terrible hurtful things.
This narrows your options, because the one thing you can't do is continue as things are. You can't keep him safe and your children safe at the same time, while also remaining sane/employed/mentally healthy yourself. If you were on your own, you could stay with the status quo, even if it meant destroying your own life and health. But you have children. You can chose to sacrifice yourself for another adult, but you can't ask a child to do that.
So. In the country you're currently living in, is there such a thing as involuntary psychiatric evaluations and/or confinement? If so, that is an option. You can explain your concerns and his symptoms/history to a doctor and see if he can be given treatment against his will. Or you can give him an ultimatum to get serious about getting a diagnosis and treatment, and to commit to it. Or you leave. Each of these are heartbreakingly difficult and painful things to do, so I really feel for you.
posted by EllaEm at 2:53 PM on June 4, 2023
In case it's helpful, given some of the answers above: The Metafilter There is Help Wiki has a section with contact details for domestic abuse organisations in a number of different countries.
If there's one in your country, you should be able to contact them - anonymously if you wish - and get their help to make a plan to leave, in a way that would keep both you and your children safe. You might want to do it in a way that he's not able to trace (so eg. not on a shared computer where he can see your history).
posted by penguin pie at 4:29 PM on June 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
If there's one in your country, you should be able to contact them - anonymously if you wish - and get their help to make a plan to leave, in a way that would keep both you and your children safe. You might want to do it in a way that he's not able to trace (so eg. not on a shared computer where he can see your history).
posted by penguin pie at 4:29 PM on June 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
flink, I looked at your post history and you have been enduring extremely disruptive and contentious behavior from your husband since at least 2017. So for at least six years, he has refused to participate in your relationship, refused to participate in parenting, undermined and criticized your every move, refused to make friends or socialize with people you care about, refused any kind of treatment or therapy, moved your family from place to place, made bad investments, randomly left doors and windows open and now, he wants to give your kids away? And he's escalated his animosity against you and insists you are to blame for everything wrong in his life and believes you are actively malicious and harmful. All of these things are atypical in a marriage/partnership.
This must have been so exhausting and demoralizing. I am so sorry.
I would advise not spending any more time trying to figure out what is wrong with him, and instead ask yourself, Is this acceptable to me? Is this acceptable for my children? If these circumstances never change, and every day is like this, can I continue to live under these conditions? All the energy you are putting into wondering WTF is wrong with him, is energy you should be putting into a better life for you and your kids.
For you, it doesn't matter why he is harmful. What matters is that he IS constantly harmful to you and your children and you should not have to live like this.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 8:00 PM on June 4, 2023 [29 favorites]
This must have been so exhausting and demoralizing. I am so sorry.
I would advise not spending any more time trying to figure out what is wrong with him, and instead ask yourself, Is this acceptable to me? Is this acceptable for my children? If these circumstances never change, and every day is like this, can I continue to live under these conditions? All the energy you are putting into wondering WTF is wrong with him, is energy you should be putting into a better life for you and your kids.
For you, it doesn't matter why he is harmful. What matters is that he IS constantly harmful to you and your children and you should not have to live like this.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 8:00 PM on June 4, 2023 [29 favorites]
Your Title question, "how should I manage the end of this marriage right now?" actually shows us your instinct along with your feelings of DANGER. Your gut is telling you that this is the end. But, as happens in abusive relationships, what's up and down gets confusing, your confidence wanes, and the ability to leave is very hard. So you start to ask questions like "why is he acting like this" which distracts you from your true purpose: to get the hell out of there! It takes so many tries to leave an abusive relationship. See that your gut is correct.
Begin to understand that you are going to have to secure a way to leave your husband, so that yourself and your children's wellbeing becomes prioritized.
So to answer your Title question: in secret, begin to plan your escape. Find someone or an organization who helps people leave abusive relationships. Save money. Get legal resources. Keep being a solid parent for your kids. Don't get sucked into your spouse's games. Begin to get a thicker skin-- what he says to you isn't true. You need to rely on yourself alone. And you can do it.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 8:16 PM on June 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Begin to understand that you are going to have to secure a way to leave your husband, so that yourself and your children's wellbeing becomes prioritized.
So to answer your Title question: in secret, begin to plan your escape. Find someone or an organization who helps people leave abusive relationships. Save money. Get legal resources. Keep being a solid parent for your kids. Don't get sucked into your spouse's games. Begin to get a thicker skin-- what he says to you isn't true. You need to rely on yourself alone. And you can do it.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 8:16 PM on June 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
"He says he loves me but from the rest of what he says I don’t think that’s probably true"
Just to focus on this: it is irrelevant whether he loves you at this point. There are problems, serious problems, and if he loves you truly and deeply, those problems still need the solutions other people are pointing to. Many relationships dissolve even though one or both parties feel love, because they just don't work any more. Feelings of love are not enough. Don't think about whether he loves you, it's not a helpful thought.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:27 PM on June 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just to focus on this: it is irrelevant whether he loves you at this point. There are problems, serious problems, and if he loves you truly and deeply, those problems still need the solutions other people are pointing to. Many relationships dissolve even though one or both parties feel love, because they just don't work any more. Feelings of love are not enough. Don't think about whether he loves you, it's not a helpful thought.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:27 PM on June 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
The Types of Abusive Men
Mr. Sensitive wraps himself in one of the most persuasive covers a man can have. If you start to feel chronically mistreated by him, you are likely to assume that something is wrong with you
(…)
You seem to be hurting his feelings constantly, though you aren’t sure why, and he expects your attention to be focused endlessly on his emotional injuries. If you are in a bad mood one day and say something unfair or insensitive, it won’t be enough for you to give him a sincere apology and accept responsibility. He’ll go on and on about it, expecting you to grovel as if you had treated him with profound cruelty.
(…)
With the passing of time, he increasingly casts the blame on to you for anything he is dissatisfied with in his own life; your burden of guilt keeps growing.
(…)
He starts to exhibit a mean side that no one else ever sees and may even become threatening or intimidating.
(…)
The central attitudes driving Mr. Sensitive are:
• I’m against the macho men, so I couldn’t be abusive.
• As long as I use a lot of psychobabble, no one is going to believe that I am mistreating you.
• I can control you by analyzing how your mind and emotions work, and what your issues are from childhood.
• I can get inside your head whether you want me there or not.
• Nothing in the world is more important than my feelings.
posted by bq at 9:24 PM on June 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Mr. Sensitive wraps himself in one of the most persuasive covers a man can have. If you start to feel chronically mistreated by him, you are likely to assume that something is wrong with you
(…)
You seem to be hurting his feelings constantly, though you aren’t sure why, and he expects your attention to be focused endlessly on his emotional injuries. If you are in a bad mood one day and say something unfair or insensitive, it won’t be enough for you to give him a sincere apology and accept responsibility. He’ll go on and on about it, expecting you to grovel as if you had treated him with profound cruelty.
(…)
With the passing of time, he increasingly casts the blame on to you for anything he is dissatisfied with in his own life; your burden of guilt keeps growing.
(…)
He starts to exhibit a mean side that no one else ever sees and may even become threatening or intimidating.
(…)
The central attitudes driving Mr. Sensitive are:
• I’m against the macho men, so I couldn’t be abusive.
• As long as I use a lot of psychobabble, no one is going to believe that I am mistreating you.
• I can control you by analyzing how your mind and emotions work, and what your issues are from childhood.
• I can get inside your head whether you want me there or not.
• Nothing in the world is more important than my feelings.
posted by bq at 9:24 PM on June 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
From looking at your responses to other questions, it looks like you live in a country where you speak the native language, where divorce is normal, and where, while you need both parents' permission to take the children out of the country, you don't need permission to move away with your children in country.
I would focus on leaving, and getting to a safe place in the country you are in right now. Regardless of whether and how you can get back to the States. I think your life will be better just not living with your husband, that the current situation is likely to be damaging your sense of your self, and that, while financially it may be hard, once you leave you will be much better able to sort out your long-term future.
I suspect that he's saying the things he is as a way to manage his own feelings. Whatever it is that's causing him to act like this, I don't think it will get better if you are still there. That's not because it's your fault, but because his treatment of you is acting as an outlet for him and he has no incentive right now to find a new solution.
posted by plonkee at 2:14 AM on June 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
I would focus on leaving, and getting to a safe place in the country you are in right now. Regardless of whether and how you can get back to the States. I think your life will be better just not living with your husband, that the current situation is likely to be damaging your sense of your self, and that, while financially it may be hard, once you leave you will be much better able to sort out your long-term future.
I suspect that he's saying the things he is as a way to manage his own feelings. Whatever it is that's causing him to act like this, I don't think it will get better if you are still there. That's not because it's your fault, but because his treatment of you is acting as an outlet for him and he has no incentive right now to find a new solution.
posted by plonkee at 2:14 AM on June 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
From Psychology Today: Shift your focus from the abuser’s behavior to you and the behaviors you’ve developed to cope. Take a long, hard look at what is happening to you, your sense of self, and your ability to think independently. Once you begin to take an honest reckoning of what has been worn away by the constant barrage, it will become harder to normalize, rationalize, and be swept up in those honeymoon periods.
Your partner sounds verbally abusive, at a minimum. It truly does not matter why he acts the way he does or that he says he loves you. Ultimately, the only thing that matters is how he behaves, how that makes you feel, and what that models for your children.
Do not tell your spouse you are leaving until you are ready to go. If you are considering leaving your husband, it is important to make a plan and consider your safety. If you are in an abusive relationship, it can be very dangerous to leave your husband. Recruit the help of a friend or family member to form a safe exit strategy.
There are many checklists available with the steps to take for ending a marriage, especially with a potentially dangerous spouse. The excerpt above is from one such list. It includes a pre-divorce checklist and a divorce safety checklist.
Obviously it is important to get good legal guidance from an experienced professional who knows the law in your country of residence. In addition to dealing with legal and financial issues, leaving a spouse can be a real challenge emotionally. I left my husband many years ago and it was super hard to do even though I knew my life would be better afterward.
It sucks to have a partner who isn't doing their share of the work, who doesn't help in a meaningful way with your children, and who dismisses all of your concerns. But it doesn't have to stay that way. You can leave and build a better life for yourself and your children. If you choose to leave, I hope you get support from your family members, friends, and community. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 8:02 AM on June 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Your partner sounds verbally abusive, at a minimum. It truly does not matter why he acts the way he does or that he says he loves you. Ultimately, the only thing that matters is how he behaves, how that makes you feel, and what that models for your children.
Do not tell your spouse you are leaving until you are ready to go. If you are considering leaving your husband, it is important to make a plan and consider your safety. If you are in an abusive relationship, it can be very dangerous to leave your husband. Recruit the help of a friend or family member to form a safe exit strategy.
There are many checklists available with the steps to take for ending a marriage, especially with a potentially dangerous spouse. The excerpt above is from one such list. It includes a pre-divorce checklist and a divorce safety checklist.
Obviously it is important to get good legal guidance from an experienced professional who knows the law in your country of residence. In addition to dealing with legal and financial issues, leaving a spouse can be a real challenge emotionally. I left my husband many years ago and it was super hard to do even though I knew my life would be better afterward.
It sucks to have a partner who isn't doing their share of the work, who doesn't help in a meaningful way with your children, and who dismisses all of your concerns. But it doesn't have to stay that way. You can leave and build a better life for yourself and your children. If you choose to leave, I hope you get support from your family members, friends, and community. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 8:02 AM on June 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you everyone, I’ve reached out to the women’s help and an attorney. I did those things last month and then cancelled the women’s help appointment because I want to talk (again) with the attorney because I didn’t explain everything to her last time (i only said things were hard- i was NOT clear) and after talking on the phone anonymously with the women’s help it’s clear that once you pull the trigger with them that you need to have your bags packed (they have a list) and everything else happens after so I wanted to delay to make sure that I’m as ready as i need to be and all avenues are planned for and I’ve done what I can to be ready and empowered. My language skills here aren’t great… it’s not been easy to integrate for the reasons I’ve stated…
posted by flink at 7:30 AM on June 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by flink at 7:30 AM on June 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh and thank you so so much.
posted by flink at 7:32 AM on June 8, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by flink at 7:32 AM on June 8, 2023 [5 favorites]
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But! That doesn't excuse the horrible things he's saying or doing to you. He is not being your partner, he's a weight you're dragging around. It sounds as though his presence in your life is a net negative. It doesn't sound as though he's capable of helping anyone right now, not you or himself. You need to do the best thing for you and the kids, which is getting away from someone who is treating you all like shit.
You need to start making those plans a reality. Do you have support you can go back to? Family who will help take care of the kids while you get things together again? Go to them. Leave this man behind.
posted by fight or flight at 4:02 AM on June 4, 2023 [26 favorites]