Etiquette question regarding dinner check

May 9, 2023 4:28 PM

I’m curious to get people’s take on a situation I was involved in a few days ago at a restaurant where there were three of us for dinner.

I’m in a long distance relationship with a guy I’ll call Tom. Tom came to spend the weekend, and we decided to hang out with a friend of ours who I’ll call Josh. I like Josh well enough, but frankly I prefer to not hang out with him in person all that often because he very frequently annoys me in various ways. In general, he’s a very nice person, but he’s just kind of loud, which annoys me. He also tends to be kind of inconsiderate; he once stayed over at my house for a night because he was having a dispute with his roommate, which was fine, but he drank all my gin (ok, not all, but almost a full bottle) and never offered to replace it. He’s just kind of not my cup of tea.

But Tom wanted to see Josh, so I agreed, since I find Josh lots more tolerable when Tom is around. I texted Josh and said that Tom would be in town this weekend, and I asked if he wanted to hang out with us and have dinner, pretty much in those words. Josh said that he did want to hang out with us, so I told him we’d be at such and such restaurant at 5:45 pm.

Tom and I got to the restaurant early, and I texted and asked Josh if he could meet us a bit early, as well. He said he was sorry, but he couldn’t, because he was just hopping into a cab and would be there at 5:45 pm. Ok, fine. At about 5:45 pm, after we were sitting down (we had a reservation), Josh texted and said he was sorry, but he would probably be there around 6:15 because he had lost track of time. Annoying, but ok. Josh finally arrived late and the restaurant was fairly empty, although there were people seated quite near us. At one point we got into a political discussion and he referred to Hilary Clinton as, and here I quote, “a fucking bitch.” As always, his voice was loud, so I was embarrassed.

Anyway, at the end of the meal, I took out my credit card to pay. Tom asked me how much he owed me, but I waved him away, because when we go visiting each other, the one who’s hosting pays. At that point, I kind of expected Josh to offer to pay, but instead, he just said, “Hey, That Darn Sock, thanks for dinner, I really appreciate it.”

I was really irritated by this, because I did not offer to pay for his dinner. I asked if he wanted to hang out with Tom and me, which to my mind is not the same thing as saying, “Hey, can I take you to dinner?” To me, it’s a totally different thing if two people are a couple and one pays for the other’s dinner, and it’s not license to assume that the person is paying for your dinner as well. I wound up paying for Josh’s dinner too, and was really annoyed for the rest of the evening. (Tom agreed that Josh was out of line.)

So, how should I have handled this? I probably handled it badly; I probably should have just told Tom he owed me 20 bucks or whatever so that Josh would have understood that I wasn’t picking up the tab for his dinner. Or am I just being unreasonable because it’s usually assumed that if I pay for one person’s dinner, I’m paying for everyone at the table? Or am I just annoyed because I’m annoyed by Josh in general?

posted by That darn sock! to Human Relations (21 answers total)

I think the way to communicate your intentions to only pay for Tom's meal would have been to say something like, "I'm covering me and Tom, Josh do you want to Venmo or get the server to split it?" The way you handled it does seem a bit ambiguous (although many people still would have tried to pay their share). It mostly sounds like you need to stop hanging out with Josh.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 4:35 PM on May 9, 2023 [52 favorites]

I agree that this was a bit ambiguous - I can see how Josh might interpret that hand wave as to mean "I've got this." I agree with the first answer, that the thing to do would be to just say "Oh, I just intended to pay for Tom since he's my guest, if you could throw in $[x] that would be great!" And yes, I think the level of your annoyance here is being amplified by the fact that you don't like Josh.
posted by coffeecat at 4:39 PM on May 9, 2023 [20 favorites]

Anyway, at the end of the meal, I took out my credit card to pay . . .

Josh sounds like someone I wouldn't want to spend much time with, but frankly, I can't fault him for thinking you planned to pay for his meal. I'm sure that in his mind, you invited him to have dinner with you and Tom. Yes, he could have offered to pay for his, but from your description of him, I wouldn't have expected it.

You were right to just pay and get on with the evening. Next step: avoid Josh like the plague.
posted by Dolley at 4:42 PM on May 9, 2023 [24 favorites]

I think he interpreted your verbal and nonverbal communications in a way that was most convenient to him. I think I would have paid it rather than make a fuss (which may be what he was banking on) and then be painfully clear if there's another invite again. Maybe ask the waiter at the beginning of the meal if they can make separate checks and tell them to put Tom's on your tab.
posted by happy_cat at 4:59 PM on May 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

It did sound like maybe you were offering to pick up the bill for the table. And yes, this is all exacerbated by you being generally irritated at Josh.

Next time Tom is in town, he can go hang out with Josh alone. No matter how much you enjoy your time with Tom, it's not worth it for the annoyance at Josh.

(The fact that you were irritated that he couldn't arrive early at the last minute is an indication here that this is pretty personal.)
posted by bluedaisy at 5:02 PM on May 9, 2023 [17 favorites]

At least he said thank you.
posted by Dolley at 5:40 PM on May 9, 2023 [3 favorites]

I would find it weird if someone took out their credit card first, waved away one other person offering to pay a share, but then expected other people at the table to pay a share. In terms of the etiquette dance that happens when the check arrives, I think you can signal: (a) I'm paying for everyone; (b) let's split it X ways evenly; or (c) we're all going to try to calculate our personal shares. But I think saying "I am going to pick up one person's share but not another person's share" is pretty unusual and could be interpreted as kind of rude. Not that you were trying to be rude or that you owe Josh anything, but, in general, the outcome that you were aiming for seems to me a pretty unusual case that would require some very clear communication to avoid misunderstanding and potential hurt feelings.
posted by Mid at 5:57 PM on May 9, 2023 [54 favorites]

It sounds like something you'd have to see in person, but I can absolutely imagine reading your hand gesture as "I'm covering this! (inclusive)" rather than "I'm covering this! (for YOU but not HIM.)" If you didn't ask the waiter to split the bill, and then when it came you signaled you were paying it, I'm not at all sure he should have understood your intentions.

It sounds like the guy did multiple other genuinely annoying things but this one I can very easily see as a legitimate miscommunication, and unless you're very sure it wasn't, I think maybe let this one go.
posted by Stacey at 6:02 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]

If I were you then my invitation to Josh to hang out and have dinner with me and my boyfriend would mean that I'm paying for everyone.

If I'm Josh I'd make the offer to split the bill but as Mid pointed out if you've just brought out your credit card and told Tom that you've got him I'd feel a bit weird about doing what a 2/3-1/3 split of the bill.

My default is that if I'm inviting someone out then I'm paying for them. They can get me next time if they're inviting me somewhere. One of my closest groups of friends always insists on splitting the bill or getting separate bills when we go out and while it makes total sense and is fair it also feels too transactional to me. I grew up watching my parents and their friends fighting over who gets to pay the bill at restaurants, grabbing the bill out of the hands of someone else or sneaking up to the cashier to pay when no one's looking, and thought it was pretty funny at the time but now that's me. It feels good to take care of the people you love in such a simple way and it also feels good to accept their generosity if it ends up being on them.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:18 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]

I agree that covering Tom but not Josh would be an unusual outcome that would require very specific communication, and waving away Tom's credit card is not it. Taking the bill, reviewing it and telling Josh something like "Josh it looks like your share is about $30, do you want to Venmo me or do you have cash" would have been about the right level of specificity.

And yeah, no more hanging out with Josh. Why would you spend your date time doing that?!
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:24 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]

Sounds like Josh is a bit of a user who is likely to take advantage of a situation in any way he can. Your irritation with that is probably colouring your views a bit, but only a bit. Even if he really did think you were offering to pay for him, he should have made some gesture towards his wallet, like covering the tip. I agree with the way you handled it in the moment, though, since he would probably have made things awkward if you had told him you expected him to pay.

In your shoes, if I were ever unfortunate enough to be stuck having dinner with him again, I'd ask for separate bills up front, or say something like "It's X per person, and I'm covering Tom's share. Let's ask the server to split it." (I wouldn't trust someone like that to send you the money afterwards.)

And yeah, from now on, if Tom wants to spend time with Josh he can do it on his own. It's not worth your aggravation.
posted by rpfields at 7:21 PM on May 9, 2023

If tom wanted to hang out with Josh he should have made the plans himself and not fobbed off the emotional labor on you.
posted by brujita at 7:50 PM on May 9, 2023 [13 favorites]

Josh is a mooch. Contact with mooches inevitably involves either conflict or expense. Sounds like you chose expense on this occasion. It's a valid choice.
posted by flabdablet at 12:29 AM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]

Your dilemma is a great example of the adage "no good deed goes unpunished".

Next time, don't invite Josh. Think of the cost of his dinner as the fee for learning how not to give him an opportunity to irritate you again.
posted by Thella at 1:09 AM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

But I think saying "I am going to pick up one person's share but not another person's share" is pretty unusual and could be interpreted as kind of rude.

Seconding this. I have eaten many meals with many people over many years, and I have never seen this happen unless it was someone's birthday (and even then, typically the birthday person's share is split among all the attendees). I would have made the same assumption that Josh did (though hopefully I would have been a better dinner companion prior to that!)
posted by goodbyewaffles at 6:10 AM on May 10, 2023 [5 favorites]

Yeah, notwithstanding Josh's annoying characteristics, I'd agree it was ambiguous and wouldn't fault Josh for thinking you offered to pay for the table. Some of this may be impacted by age and the price of the meal relative to everyone's personal economics (i.e., if it was an "expensive meal").

To navigate any potential awkwardness around bill paying when Mrs. slkinsey and I go out to dinner with one friend--splitting the bill into thirds and asking our friend to toss in a card for one share of the bill is awkward, and not so great for the server either-- we usually just pay the whole bill with the tacit understanding that it will be reciprocated in one way or another. Sometimes that friend will offer to pick up the whole bill on a later occasion, for example. But at least that is a situation in which it's assumed the two slkinseys are paying as a unit. In your case it's not so clear, and waving away a card on the table could easily be interpreted as an offer to pay the whole bill. In hindsight, I guess it might have worked to say something like, "Okay to split this in thirds? I'm gonna pay for Tom."
posted by slkinsey at 9:18 AM on May 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

This question is worded in an interesting way in that this is essentially a dining etiquette question, yet at least 50% of the question is about what a jerk Josh is. Not completely irrelevant to the degree that part of the question is whether or not your annoyance at Josh is coloring your view of the situation, but I think some of what you have written is effecting your answers. Mentioning his comment about Hillary Clinton, for example, is sure to get the Mefi populace on your side with regards to your opinion of this person’s character, but has really nothing to do with expectations of who pays what at the end of a meal.

I’m surprised I’m the first person to bring up “Ask vs. Guess” culture here. There were a lot of assumptions made that live primarily in your head regarding payment etiquette and the expectation Josh would be in alignment without having made those expectations clear (such as the idea that a member of a couple might cover the other partner, but anyone else in attendance is expected to fend for themselves).

When I invite someone out to eat, I typically go in with the expectation that I’m paying for them, regardless if they offer to split or cover their side. If I were in Josh’s position, based on social niceties I would have made a cursory effort to grab for my wallet, or ask what I owed, or whatever, and it would have been nice if he had done the same, but it doesn’t seem at all out of line to me that once he saw you turn away somebody else’s attempt to split the bill that he took that to mean you were covering the check for everyone. I think a better course of action would have been to mention to the waitperson at the start of the meal that you were doing separate checks or letting Josh know at the time of invite or when he arrived that you would be covering for Tom but that he was expected to pay his share.

In other words, yes, I think your general annoyance with Josh is coloring what reads to me as a genuinely ambiguous situation.
posted by The Gooch at 9:31 AM on May 10, 2023 [5 favorites]

It's uncomfortable to be the 3rd wheel on a date, so perhaps Josh thought you were being gracious in recompense as you have also developed a reputation for graciousness (the gin episode).

It was an ambiguous situation and you seem angry that Josh " didn't know his place". But people aren't mind readers. If equitable splits are important to you that's the reputation you want to develop going forward.
posted by jello at 10:05 AM on May 10, 2023

Response by poster: I have no idea why you put “didn’t know his place” in quotation marks as though it was something I said when I said no such thing.

In any event, thanks everyone — from now on I’ll be more clear about my intentions with respect to splitting the bill, and even better, I’ll send Tom to socialize with Josh alone.
posted by That darn sock! at 1:03 PM on May 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

The quotation marks were to indicate use of a stock saying for what I distilled from your post. I didn't think anyone would read your post could or would attribute the words inside the quotes to you, since as you say they weren't there to begin with.

I apologize for upsetting you.
posted by jello at 7:28 PM on May 14, 2023

First of all, if Tom is the one who wants to see Josh, he should be making arrangements NOT YOU. Especially since you dislike Josh so much!

Secondly, I want to encourage you to be honest with yourself (and with Tom?) that you hate Josh's fucking guts - even if you don't use these exact words. You don't think he's a nice person and you don't like him well enough. Stop lying to yourself and to Tom! Things will go so much better for you if you can admit that Josh is someone you would rather not hang out with, regardless of the circumstances or the company, thank you very much.

Thirdly, if you want to only pay for one person in the group of three and expect the other to pay, it's your responsibility to say so in as many words, like: "Josh I think your share of this is $25." There is no indirect Guess-Culture way of communicating this. That's because in Guess Culture, if you're paying for Tom, then you would necessarily pick up the check out of politeness and not for a moment would you expect Josh to pay.

And finally - perhaps most importantly - I'd like to encourage you to speak up when someone's behavior bothers you and address it directly, as opposed to saving up that grudge in silence and unconsciously having that pent-up resentment explode out of you at some other relatively innocuous moment. There are many ways you can immediately address someone's bad behavior using Guess Culture-compliant techniques: For example, when Josh said he lost track of time and would be late (the first thing he did that was actually rude) you might have said, "Oh!" in a disappointed, shocked, or otherwise meaningful tone, and avoided saying or implying that his lateness was okay. When he made that remark about Clinton, you could say something like, "I'm sorry, please excuse us," to the other people near you, and then pointedly change the subject with Josh. This would help you adhere to your own standards of politeness in public (avoiding silent, seething embarrassment) while also clearly communicating your displeasure to Josh.

The general idea is, don't silently store up grudges against people, because that's passive aggressive. Communicate what you actually feel about their behavior in the moment. This will help you to avoid displacing resentment onto some other moment where the resentment isn't actually warranted.
posted by MiraK at 9:41 AM on May 15, 2023