I was fired from my previous job. What do I tell employers?

April 27, 2023 11:56 AM

I was fired in December 2020 for being late to logging in at work one too many times but on my paperwork they said “Employee has been terminated as a result of the elimination of her job role”. I am confused on what to say to people and future employers.

I was fired from my last job, what to tell future employers

I am deeply ashamed of this. I worked at this company for 4.5 years. I was fired suddenly in December 2020 because I was late logging into work one too many times. I feel horrible about it still. There were many reasons though, I was going through deep mental health issues (clinical depression and anxiety) and my relationship was falling apart and I gained an extreme amount of weight in a short time, severe family issues, eating disorder. I felt my boss was toxic (I would never say that in an interview or to anyone, I have learned not to gossip or talk badly) our relationship was suffering, the director wanted me groomed for management but my boss seemed jealous… idk. The director and I were fired for different reasons.

The thing is, on my paperwork, it says “employee has been terminated as a result of the elimination of her job role”.

I asked HR what they would say to future employers and they said they would only state the titles I had and dates of employment. I was fired in December and started a new role in February. Now two years later I am looking again.

I just did a phone interview and they asked why my job ended in December 2020 and I told them what the paperwork says. They asked if anyone else was let go and I said I am not sure, although I don’t think so. I know they hired someone right after me, so I guess they put that on my paperwork to be nice? I’m confused.

I feel so guilty and ashamed. I have told people that I was laid off because I am so ashamed of ever being fired and I feel guilt for lying…… but that’s what my paperwork says? I feel like an awful person and like this will haunt me forever.

posted by anon1129 to Work & Money (25 answers total)

nice, yep. you can file for unemployment if you're laid off, but not if you're terminated for cause.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:59 AM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]

This is a no-brainer. Tell people what it says on your paperwork.
posted by slkinsey at 12:00 PM on April 27, 2023 [30 favorites]

also, just say it like you said it. no harm to the new boss.

your business: you can do the work, you simply had a tardiness issue. had. right?
posted by j_curiouser at 12:01 PM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Your old job did you a wonderful favor! Yes, you say you were laid off as a result of your role being eliminated. If you are asked whether others were laid off, you say honestly that you don't know, because you don't.
posted by neutralhydrogen at 12:05 PM on April 27, 2023 [53 favorites]

From an employer’s perspective, once an employee is terminated for cause, it’s actually to the employer’s benefit to get that person hired at another company as quickly as possible. There are a number of reasons for this:

• It doesn’t cost $ORIGINAL_COMPANY anything to have employee working at $NEW_COMPANY.
• The employee is less likely to sue $ORIGINAL_COMPANY for their termination (regardless of whether the termination was appropriate).
• The quicker the employee takes a new job, the less unemployment insurance cost the employee will require - possibly even to zero. Employers pay unemployment taxes proportional to their unemployment insurance costs; the less time the employee is unemployed, the less the employer’s unemployment taxes are.

Your employer really doesn’t care about punishing you for your performance. It doesn’t help them in any way. They may not want to pay you, but they don’t care about other people paying you. You might as well take advantage of that and get yourself in a better place quicker. Your work doesn’t attribute moral status to your employment - there’s no reason for you to either. You are not a horrible person.

On preview…

nice, yep. you can file for unemployment if you're laid off, but not if you're terminated for cause.

This is flat out incorrect. Unemployment in all states I’m familiar with covers termination for cause or without case. In cases of employee misconduct, unemployment may not cover the employee. However, misconduct is way more than doing your job badly. It’s doing things that are far beyond what any reasonable person would do - for instance, doing things like accidentally burning down their workplace due to showing up high on illegal drugs. Tardiness is almost definitely not misconduct. The assumption of most states’ unemployment boards is that it is the employer’s job to hire good employees - not the employee’s fault for not meeting employer expectations.

Further, the reason this is incorrect is a person can always file for unemployment - and should. If they file, they may be rejected, but no further punishment occurs. If they don’t file, they will lose out on potential unemployment benefits.

It’s always to a terminated employee’s benefit to file for unemployment.
posted by saeculorum at 12:05 PM on April 27, 2023 [13 favorites]

Response by poster: Just to be clear, I was fired in December 2020 and hired at a new company in February 2021. I have been working at that company since but am now looking again for a new job, and they are asking when my old job ended in 2020. I also told people in my life I was laid off because I am ashamed of being fired previously.
posted by anon1129 at 12:09 PM on April 27, 2023

It's pretty common to be laid off in this way. I don't know why they did this, but it probably had something to do with the equivocal nature of your firing - they didn't want to deal with any conflict so they would rather just pay the unemployment.

You should say what's on your paperwork. You really don't owe anyone every single scrap of your experiences and struggles especially when they are not relevant.

Also, think of the many, many jobs where people don't need to be punctual at all. Many people aren't subject to this degree of labor discipline and it is very rarely truly essential. Lots of people might have struggled with punctuality as you did but because their job didn't discipline people over it they wouldn't have gotten fired. It's not a moral failing, it's just a bad time in your life.

Many, many people get fired. You truly do not need to feel this degree of shame. I know someone who struggles to hold a job at all, but they are a wonderful, kind, brilliant and talented person. I know people who have been fired because of foolery, I know people who were fired because of personal struggles like yours, I know people who were fired because they had weird, tyrannical bosses. People lose jobs a lot; it's just such a source of shame in a lot of circles that no one talks about it, which means that people end up feeling alone and ashamed when they should not.
posted by Frowner at 12:11 PM on April 27, 2023 [35 favorites]

Anything that happened to a job in 2020 isn't even real. The entire year has been wiped clean. I'm in HR and asking those questions is just boilerplate--2020 shit really doesn't matter. Everything was deeply fucked up for everyone.

Also, I know it's easy to say, but stop feeling guilty. You're still here. You did 2020 just fine.

For what it's worth, I was fired from the job I had before the one I have now. I did not share that fact when I interviewed. Now, years later, I have happily told not only my boss, but my HR team, my employees, and basically offer the story up any time it seems even remotely relevant. The place I got fired from was toxic as hell, and the entire screwed up situation is a nice case study in toxic work culture/what not to do. Long story short it really really doesn't matter. You can be free from this burden. If you need permission, you have mine.
posted by phunniemee at 12:12 PM on April 27, 2023 [54 favorites]

You should not feel any shame that you weren't functioning perfectly in December 2020, during a wave of COVID infections and the dissolution of a relationship, on top of what sounds like a number of mental health problems. You've held down a job now for over two years, so I take it you're not in the same place you were back in 2020. Lie away! The majority of people lie or massage the truth a bit in job interviews/resumes, it's OK.
posted by coffeecat at 12:13 PM on April 27, 2023 [11 favorites]

i defer to saeculorem. ty for the correction.

in my state, after having been terminated for cause, my claim was vigorously disputed and did not turn out. "termination forcause" was the precise justification used by the state shrug.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:18 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

You keep mentioning the shame you feel and I fear that you may be doing your penance by sabotaging your current job search.

For starters do you you know for a fact that your position wasn’t actually eliminated at your last job? Your performance may not have been bad enough to warrant a firing, but enough to make you low hanging fruit when someone wanted to cut costs.

In any case you should do your penance somewhere other than your job search. Give the answer the company wrote down and unless you know for sure otherwise assume that it’s true.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:22 PM on April 27, 2023 [12 favorites]

It seems entirely possible to me that your role was eliminated for reasons outside your control and the toxic management told you it was because you were late to make you feel bad.
posted by potrzebie at 12:30 PM on April 27, 2023 [11 favorites]

Hi - I'm a person who has been a hiring manager many, many times. If I ask why you left that role, tell me "the role was eliminated."

Unless there's a damn good reason why you needed to log in at a specific time, I really don't care that you were fired for logging in late. Logging in late shouldn't even be a thing that's monitored if your job is a salaried role where you have work to do and you get that work done.

I have employees around the world right now. I care that they get their shit done. I do not care if they log in at 6 a.m., 9 a.m., 9:05 a.m., or 11 a.m. my time or their local time. (Obviously I do care if they show up late or not at all for meetings where they're needed. If that was your problem, work on fixing that.)

It sounds like you were fired because somebody didn't like you. The reason the paperwork doesn't list a cause may be because they didn't document things properly and understand that giving a cause puts them more at risk should you pursue legal remedy. Easier for them to say it was eliminated than saying you were fired.

You should feel zero guilt about this. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Since you've been carrying guilt about it, please accept this as acknowledgement of your (unnecessary) penance and go forth and find yourself a better job and be well.
posted by jzb at 12:30 PM on April 27, 2023 [16 favorites]

Response by poster: I would also like to add that it was a customer service representative role with a call center, so that’s why being on time was so important, although I got all my work done always and was always reviewed with exceedingly great reviews. But, I had been I guess gossiping with an employee about how toxic my boss was and she was always a very suspicious person and I think sensed that, she was very toxic and overall it was a nightmare job with a toxic department and also super draining to be in a call center. I was also looking for another job since I graduated recently and maybe she found that out. Other coworkers were consistently late all the time but because my boss liked them they weren’t ever fired. Upper management really liked me and saw management potential in me but my boss did not like me.
posted by anon1129 at 12:33 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

This is so simple. You state with confidence that your job was eliminated, the end. As appropriate, emphasize your exceedingly great reviews.

The only reason you feel bad about this is because you were working in the type of job that treats you like a child. The concept of being "late" to work doesn't even exist for many people--it doesn't for me--because our management treats us like adults and realizes that we may be late sometimes but will also work late sometimes to make sure the job gets done. Even if punctuality was important for that job, life happens and we can't always perform at our best. It will happen again, too, so start learning to put it in its proper perspective. Good luck to you you--it will be fine!!
posted by HotToddy at 12:45 PM on April 27, 2023 [7 favorites]

I agree that you can honestly say your position was eliminated. Maybe they did you a kindness by phrasing your termination that way, or maybe your supervisor was making up reasons, but that’s still how it was processed.

It sounds like you can say plenty of positives about your performance there, too. It’s not like you did a bad job and are hiding it.
posted by michaelh at 12:52 PM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]

I know some really great people who were fired. I'm not going to go into details on the first one, but a friend of mine worked on the campaign for a prominent national political candidate. I can't even remember why he was fired. But he's an incredibly well-respected professional who has gone on to very fancy jobs. That job wasn't a good match for him at the time.

Also, I used to be a floor manager in a busy call center where being late was a big hassle, because it could mean, for example, we had call volumes that could be handled by three people but if only two are logged in, then customers would be stuck waiting while the other person came in late. I suspect you know this, but here's why I am sharing this: we had a super low-tolerance rule there for being late. We had a great employee who was late by a minute for the third time and was fired. I held this job many years ago, but I would have given him an excellent recommendation, and in fact, I advocated for us not to fire him. My boss (the one who did the firing) actually really valued this employee too but felt like they had to keep to our policy for consistency (and truly, things likely would have blown up among long time staff if he wasn't fired). (Also, I didn't create this policy, nor am I defending it, but it did make some sense in a call center context.)

I'm sharing these because I hope you can see that these folks being fired didn't really have to do with how they were regarded by me or other current, past, or future employers. I think you are going to be able to make piece with saying your job was eliminated when you also let go of this shame.

Honestly, December 2020 was a really shitty time for lots of folks. You are in very good company. Please be kind to yourself, and speak with a therapist (do you have an employee assistance program that would cover a few sessions of confidential therapy?) about this if it's really haunting you so terribly. We all mess up; some of us just get away with more of it.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:52 PM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]

You made it through 2020! Good for you! That year sucked ass.

I've been a hiring manager for a long time. I think your shame is keeping you from understanding something beneficial: No future employer is ever likely to know you were fired. Not ever. Because when your old 2020 job is called for a reference check, they've already made it clear they themselves won't say "fired." Even they will say your position was eliminated. You really, truly don't ever have to say "fired." If I were interviewing you, and you said "laid off" I might appreciate a little addition such as "not enough work to go around." I definitely, definitely wouldn't be suspicious that you were fired. People get laid off alllllll the time, especially because of the havoc the pandemic has wreaked.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 12:54 PM on April 27, 2023 [7 favorites]

For starters do you you know for a fact that your position wasn’t actually eliminated at your last job? Your performance may not have been bad enough to warrant a firing, but enough to make you low hanging fruit when someone wanted to cut costs.


This is what I think. The company doesn't fire everyone who's late, right? Unless you had good reason to think that the reason is a total fabrication, the need to eliminate the position may have been the actual determining factor.

The only footnote I would drop here is if you apply to work for the feds, who ask very detailed questions about job termination on the background and security clearance checks once they've made you a tentative offer. In that case, even the appearance or suspicion of being incompletely honest will be held against you, and, depending on the level of review, they may actually interview someone at your company, so...list it and explain that you were told [x] and also [y].

And...as everyone else is saying, ditch the shame. You failed in your moral obligation to maximize the profit of your employer in the middle of a pandemic? Obviously you shouldn't be able to show your face in society ever again, right???
posted by praemunire at 1:27 PM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]

Anyone who asks too many details about anyone's job in 2020 is a sadist. It was a hell year for every single person on the planet. Just say you got laid off and no more explanation is needed. If they push you for more you don't want to work with/for them. Don't beat yourself up over that "layoff", you survived, got another job within weeks, and that's pretty amazing!
posted by mareli at 1:31 PM on April 27, 2023 [6 favorites]

Yeah, everything was upside down in 2020 (and after) and hiring managers know it.

I'm wondering if the question is more of a test to see how you respond to a potentially awkward question? So they'll want you to say the good-natured applicant thing like, "My position was eliminated. I was totally bummed out about it, but I was able to find a new job pretty quickly and I've been there ever since. My current role feels like a natural path to a position doing XYZ for your uniquely fantastically amazing and desirable company."
posted by mochapickle at 1:44 PM on April 27, 2023

Other coworkers were consistently late all the time but because my boss liked them they weren’t ever fired.
If these favored coworkers did not have to meet the same punctuality standard, then it's not really a "standard" at all and putting "terminated as a result of the elimination of her job role" on your exit paperwork helps the company cover its ass.

It's appropriate in every way to use their terminology when discussing the end of your employment with them. I'm glad you found another employer soon after, and if feeling shame helped past-you formulate better work habits in your current job then it was useful. However, I don't think holding on to that shame is doing current-you and future-you any favors. And, per the answers above, please remember that 2020 was a hellscape.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:50 PM on April 27, 2023 [4 favorites]

As so many others have said, your previous company has covered their arse by, technically, not firing you. This means that you get to play along with them and say you were laid off because your position was eliminated and that the old company will never dispute that because it would expose them to legal risk and, in any case, it's likely nobody they would contact even knows the circumstances and they'll just parrot what their records say.

If they're asking you whether other people were laid off at the same time, it's because they know that companies sometimes do this to avoid legal risk and are just going through the motions of checking your story. If you know a director was 'laid off' at the same time, you can honestly say you know at least one other was laid off, but don't know anything more. Otherwise, just say you don't know (probably the safest path), because you don't. None of this is you being dishonest, because that's what the records show and will always show. Don't embellish at all and just stick to the 'I don't know' line.

Any penance you needed to serve (none, in my view) has been well and truly served and you can just move on with living your best life.
posted by dg at 4:13 PM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]

Nothing. Don't mention it unless they specifically ask for it.
posted by kschang at 11:44 PM on April 27, 2023

You've had some excellent advice, I'd just add: you turned around and found a new job only a month or so after being laid off - and that's a month with at least a couple of public holidays, so it probably takes longer to get a job (I'm not in the US so I'm kinda guessing). But anyway: you had a job for 4 1/2 years, got laid off, quickly found another job where you've worked for over two years. That's all pretty impressive, it's a solid employment record. I've done some hiring, and even if I had concerns over the job loss, you've demonstrated since then that you're capable.
posted by Pink Frost at 3:37 PM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]