What is "business formal" dress in DC?
April 11, 2023 4:00 PM Subscribe
Okay so per my earlier question, my college-age kid got a summer internship on Capitol Hill. He needs to dress "business formal" 5 days a week for the whole summer. He comes from a household where nobody has ever dressed this way professionally. Help!
What items do we need to purchase for him? How many of each thing? I need head-to-toe guidance here. This is for a congressperson's office, but they have given no guidance beyond "business formal."
What items do we need to purchase for him? How many of each thing? I need head-to-toe guidance here. This is for a congressperson's office, but they have given no guidance beyond "business formal."
Is he interning on the Hill? As in the House of Representatives or Senate?
But business formal means suits and ties. Dark suit generally, charcoal or so is probably best. You can usually get a couple or more days of mileage out of a suit, but it gets noticeable if you wear the same suit every day. So, 2-3 suits probably for a five day work week. A friend of mine who worked on the Hill for years just found decently enough fitting things at thrift stores. You can get reasonably decent collared shirts at any discount retailer, and good enough ties at those or your standard TJ Maxx/Marshalls/etc.
For a grey or black suit, black dress shoes and black belt. Again, these can be found at retailers or high end places if you want to spend the money (you don't). If you want a navy suit to mix in (some do, some don't), they tend to match better with a brown belt and brown shoes. I've never bothered with blue hues because I never wanted to bother with the second set of leather.
So, 2-3 suits, 5 dress shirts (generally conservative colors like white and blue, but other colors and patterns that match the ties in the next item on the list is okay too), 5 ties, best if they can be mixed and matched.
posted by General Malaise at 4:08 PM on April 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
But business formal means suits and ties. Dark suit generally, charcoal or so is probably best. You can usually get a couple or more days of mileage out of a suit, but it gets noticeable if you wear the same suit every day. So, 2-3 suits probably for a five day work week. A friend of mine who worked on the Hill for years just found decently enough fitting things at thrift stores. You can get reasonably decent collared shirts at any discount retailer, and good enough ties at those or your standard TJ Maxx/Marshalls/etc.
For a grey or black suit, black dress shoes and black belt. Again, these can be found at retailers or high end places if you want to spend the money (you don't). If you want a navy suit to mix in (some do, some don't), they tend to match better with a brown belt and brown shoes. I've never bothered with blue hues because I never wanted to bother with the second set of leather.
So, 2-3 suits, 5 dress shirts (generally conservative colors like white and blue, but other colors and patterns that match the ties in the next item on the list is okay too), 5 ties, best if they can be mixed and matched.
posted by General Malaise at 4:08 PM on April 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
So as not to abuse the edit window:
Ideally you want two suits with one jacket and two pairs of pants each (pants will wear out a bit more quickly than jackets do). I would have five dress shirts and a selection of ties (thrifting for ties is going to be easy). I'm not sure where you are located but if you have access to a JC Penney that will very likely get the job done. IMO thrifting suits has become a lot harder because Goodwill and the like SEPARATE THE JACKET AND THE PANTS which drives me absolutely up the wall. If your local thrift does NOT do this, you might get lucky.
posted by Medieval Maven at 4:09 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ideally you want two suits with one jacket and two pairs of pants each (pants will wear out a bit more quickly than jackets do). I would have five dress shirts and a selection of ties (thrifting for ties is going to be easy). I'm not sure where you are located but if you have access to a JC Penney that will very likely get the job done. IMO thrifting suits has become a lot harder because Goodwill and the like SEPARATE THE JACKET AND THE PANTS which drives me absolutely up the wall. If your local thrift does NOT do this, you might get lucky.
posted by Medieval Maven at 4:09 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh, for retailers that make pretty decent "bespoke" suits for a pretty good price, Suitsupply and Indochino are pretty great for the price. You can also pick up an okay suit at Target, but it will show to any clotheshorses if that matters to him.
posted by General Malaise at 4:10 PM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 4:10 PM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yep, in the Northeast/DC, business formal means "suit and tie" (for men, anyway). No one expects an intern to look like Patrick Bateman, but he does need to fit in in an environment where norms generally dictate a high degree of formality. (In other words, you don't need to spend a ton on the suits, but they do need to be suits.)
posted by praemunire at 4:12 PM on April 11, 2023
posted by praemunire at 4:12 PM on April 11, 2023
(Please forgive the question I started my answer with—I somehow missed that you answered it in your question. My guidance is still accurate, though, if even more so. The Hill is basically the only place in town that wears suits on an everyday basis, even in the hot, hot, humidity of DC summer. God bless those interns.)
posted by General Malaise at 4:20 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 4:20 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sounds like he'll also need to think about ironing and laundry/dry cleaning. And possibly a professional-looking bag/backpack.
Doesn't hurt to keep an extra shirt and possibly other elements at work, in case of accidents. As an accident-prone person, I'd also feel more comfortable owning at least one more than than the absolute minimum of required items.
posted by trig at 4:24 PM on April 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Doesn't hurt to keep an extra shirt and possibly other elements at work, in case of accidents. As an accident-prone person, I'd also feel more comfortable owning at least one more than than the absolute minimum of required items.
posted by trig at 4:24 PM on April 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Don't forget undershirts and dress socks, at least 5 each.
posted by muddgirl at 4:27 PM on April 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 4:27 PM on April 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
On Fridays, he likely can wear pressed khakis and a button-front shirt or nice polo with more casual shoes that are not sneakers, perhaps dark denim jeans. I find that jeans practically soak up humidity and suggest chinos instead. The Hill led the way on Casual Friday decades ago. But be prepared to wear a suit the first Friday.
And he needs an umbrella given that it rains a lot, and handkerchiefs to mop up sweat in a Washington summer!
posted by jgirl at 4:44 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
And he needs an umbrella given that it rains a lot, and handkerchiefs to mop up sweat in a Washington summer!
posted by jgirl at 4:44 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
You can usually get a couple or more days of mileage out of a suit, but it gets noticeable if you wear the same suit every day.
First, Congratulations!!!
My father passed the bar and got a job as an attorney when he had no money. He said he bought two identical suit jackets and 4 pairs of matching slacks that he wore every day for that first year. He said he would get into the office and hang up the jacket to keep it clean, only putting in back on when someone walked in or called him to his office. Suits can be expensive (and expensive to get dry cleaned) so I hope this little strategy is helpful to your young person!!
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:50 PM on April 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
First, Congratulations!!!
My father passed the bar and got a job as an attorney when he had no money. He said he bought two identical suit jackets and 4 pairs of matching slacks that he wore every day for that first year. He said he would get into the office and hang up the jacket to keep it clean, only putting in back on when someone walked in or called him to his office. Suits can be expensive (and expensive to get dry cleaned) so I hope this little strategy is helpful to your young person!!
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:50 PM on April 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
Some additional advice mainly related to comfort. I used to dress like this every day in the before times. Now, maybe three to five days a month always involving airplanes, so I put a premium on being comfortable.
* Consider getting "traveler" style shirts. They are machine washable if your kid has access to a washing machine. I've also given up on wool slacks and moved to machine washable with a bit of stretch.
* Men's shirts come in different fits. The regulars are pretty blousy; if your kid is slim, try "tailored fit" or "slim fit". Buying shirts that closely match your body type is an inexpensive way to look better.
* I'm a fan of Jos. A Banks for being a good compromise between selection and price. They run a lot of sales and BOGO deals, so they may be worth checking out if you are buying all of this at once. They will have knowledgeable sales people and a tailor.
* Your kid is going to have to learn to tie a tie. Have him learn the half windsor knot rather than the more common four-in-hand; it is a better, symmetric look.
* Ties are one of the most overpriced men's items; that is one thing that is probably worth thrifting for.
* There will be a lot of walking. Look for comfortable men's shoes with rubber soles. It is amazing how uncomfortable most men's dress shoes are. I'm a fan of Clarks for comfort and good looks.
Good luck!
posted by BlueTongueLizard at 5:01 PM on April 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
* Consider getting "traveler" style shirts. They are machine washable if your kid has access to a washing machine. I've also given up on wool slacks and moved to machine washable with a bit of stretch.
* Men's shirts come in different fits. The regulars are pretty blousy; if your kid is slim, try "tailored fit" or "slim fit". Buying shirts that closely match your body type is an inexpensive way to look better.
* I'm a fan of Jos. A Banks for being a good compromise between selection and price. They run a lot of sales and BOGO deals, so they may be worth checking out if you are buying all of this at once. They will have knowledgeable sales people and a tailor.
* Your kid is going to have to learn to tie a tie. Have him learn the half windsor knot rather than the more common four-in-hand; it is a better, symmetric look.
* Ties are one of the most overpriced men's items; that is one thing that is probably worth thrifting for.
* There will be a lot of walking. Look for comfortable men's shoes with rubber soles. It is amazing how uncomfortable most men's dress shoes are. I'm a fan of Clarks for comfort and good looks.
Good luck!
posted by BlueTongueLizard at 5:01 PM on April 11, 2023 [12 favorites]
I personally hate this, but the shirts have to be long sleeved. Short sleeved men's dress shirts in that scene get an inordinate amount of hate.
Ties should have a pattern but not be too fun. A tie clip is a good idea for when the jacket comes off. A nice belt or two. More well off kids in the scene used to wear expensive watches as a signifier of wealth but with smart watches they may have shifted to those instead.
If he's not learned to shine shoes yet, he needs to do so (or pay someone to do it, which is foolish as an intern). Dress socks need to be dark, absolutely not white, and not too much of a fun pattern.
Unless he's long haired and letting the freak flag fly, plan on a barber trip every ~3 weeks if he wants to stay looking sharp. What the expectations are will depend on the specific office he's in.
I would suggest the two to three suits mentioned above with enough differentiation between them color and stylewise that people can tell he's not just wearing the same one again and again.
Summer rains can come up very fast there so a small but good umbrella should be part of his everyday carry.
He can figure out if he needs these and shop locally for them, but a pair of semi-formal khakis and polo shirt or two might be useful for afterhours but still dressy events.
Not what you asked, but if you're not used to going out to hoity toity restaurants, reading up on which fork and spoon to use for what and other formal dining protocols might be useful.
posted by Candleman at 5:03 PM on April 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
Ties should have a pattern but not be too fun. A tie clip is a good idea for when the jacket comes off. A nice belt or two. More well off kids in the scene used to wear expensive watches as a signifier of wealth but with smart watches they may have shifted to those instead.
If he's not learned to shine shoes yet, he needs to do so (or pay someone to do it, which is foolish as an intern). Dress socks need to be dark, absolutely not white, and not too much of a fun pattern.
Unless he's long haired and letting the freak flag fly, plan on a barber trip every ~3 weeks if he wants to stay looking sharp. What the expectations are will depend on the specific office he's in.
I would suggest the two to three suits mentioned above with enough differentiation between them color and stylewise that people can tell he's not just wearing the same one again and again.
Summer rains can come up very fast there so a small but good umbrella should be part of his everyday carry.
He can figure out if he needs these and shop locally for them, but a pair of semi-formal khakis and polo shirt or two might be useful for afterhours but still dressy events.
Not what you asked, but if you're not used to going out to hoity toity restaurants, reading up on which fork and spoon to use for what and other formal dining protocols might be useful.
posted by Candleman at 5:03 PM on April 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
For some visual references: Congressional intern class photo
posted by yeahlikethat at 5:12 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by yeahlikethat at 5:12 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
they tend to match better with a brown belt and brown shoes
No brown in town, that is to say, no brown shoes in business formal settings. Navy suits go with black. Brown is for business casual/country weekends/"planter's orders".
posted by Ardnamurchan at 5:57 PM on April 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
No brown in town, that is to say, no brown shoes in business formal settings. Navy suits go with black. Brown is for business casual/country weekends/"planter's orders".
posted by Ardnamurchan at 5:57 PM on April 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
Actually, I see tons of navy suits with cognac-color shoes here on the Hill. It's become a thing since pre-pandemic days. But it's probably better to check that out in person once here.
Not only will there be lots of walking, the floors are hard and slippery! AIUI, Ecco shoes are comfy.
posted by jgirl at 6:50 PM on April 11, 2023 [16 favorites]
Not only will there be lots of walking, the floors are hard and slippery! AIUI, Ecco shoes are comfy.
posted by jgirl at 6:50 PM on April 11, 2023 [16 favorites]
@dieworkwear has a ton of posts about suiting and how things should fit. I tried to look for any "first business formal suit" posts he's written and was surprised not to find any. If you @ him he might reply - I see him answering short questions from random people all the time.
Watch out for collar gap
posted by airmail at 6:59 PM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Watch out for collar gap
posted by airmail at 6:59 PM on April 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
There are certain rules to this, and they are many.
If it's not too presumptuous to just offer them, to the best of my understanding (and it is fallible, I was not raised with this), as rules rather than suggestions, it will better suit the occasion, because people in these settings often take notice when they're unintentionally violated.
Your son will need 3 suits. One dark grey, one dark navy, one black. These will need to be tailored. If there is any step it is essential not to skip, it is the tailoring of the suit. It has to fit perfectly. This is not an exorbitant expense, and it is worth more than all the rest.
The suits need to have identical pairs of jackets and pants; in other words, don't buy them separately.
The pants must fit around the waist correctly. This fit will be accomplished by a salesperson taking the measurements in person. The length of the pants will be tailored to fit the shoes that will be worn with the suit, so buy them long but make sure the waist fits. A professional tailor will need to measure the pants to the shoes before tailoring them.
People who don't wear suits often end up with pants that are wide or baggy around the legs, like they wore in the '80s. These will stand out. Tight pants are not normal on formal suits, but slim pants are, even to a degree on people who are not slim.
Your son will need 2 pairs of dress shoes: one black, one dark brown. The brown shoes go with the grey and navy suits, always, the black shoes always with the black suit.
He'll also need 2 belts, one black, one dark brown, both of them in a hue that matches, but not exactly, the corresponding shoes. The black shoes always go with the black suit and shoes, the grey always with the grey. The belts need to be long enough to tuck into the belt loop past the buckle on the pants, but not more than an inch or two beyond that, when the buckle is oriented over the fly.
In addition, he'll need 5 long-sleeved formal shirts, plain white, with at least one column of two buttons at the wrists, and with collars that fit discreetly within the jacket. Some collars stick way up and tend to get dislodged over the top of the jacket collar. Avoid these.
It is important to get the correct size on these shirts, in both of two measurements. Sizes are measured in numbers; for your purposes the measurements will never be small, medium or large. The sizes on a formal shirt are the neck diameter and the sleeve length. The salesperson will need to take the measurements.
To go with the dress shirts, and to be worn with them every time, he'll need at least 5 good white undershirts. These must be made to be undershirts; white t-shirts won't work. Cheap, thin shirts are not great either. People who don't dress formally may not know this, but when the undershirt is tucked in, it goes inside the underwear. The dress shirt is tucked into the pants.
If he gets 10 ties he'll have a good start. It's ok to get cheap ties. It's not good at all to get loud or unusual ties. Small patterns that your son likes on a subdued background are good. Diagonal stripes are a classic. Solid colors can be dicey, and so can paisleys, but lots of people pull them off. Flowers, especially small ones, are usually a good bet, so long as they're quiet. Textured fabrics can be risky. Shimmery fabric is found on some cheaper ties, and it generally doesn't look good.
Red ties are inappropriate for anyone but the boss. Black ties can be too formal, or they can be just right; it's a look, but it's pushing the norm a little.
If your son is tall, he might want a wider tie. If he's short, he should stick to thin ties. If he's heavy-set, a wide tie might suit better than a thin one.
He'll need to learn at least 2 of 3 knots: the four-in-hand, the half-Windsor, and the Windsor. The four-in-hand is slimmer and fits slighter builds, the half-Windsor is a bit bulkier, and the Windsor even more so; each in its turn complements a similar body type.
The tie must be the correct length, which is such that the front of the tie just reaches the top of the belt when tied, and with enough room for the back of the tie to descend probably 2/3 that distance as well.
Your son will require at least 5 new pairs of socks. They should be dark blue, for the grey and navy suits, and black for the black suit. Patterns or stripes may work, though, depending on the setting
He'll also need 5 pocket squares, to be on the safe side. Plain colors are ok, patterns are ok, anything that stands out much is generally not great. These should be folded discreetly, not billowing out.
Colors contained within patterns on ties, socks and pocket squares should approximately match or complement those of the suit, the shoes, the pocket square, or your son's eyes on any given day. Don't match them exactly, in fabric or in color or in texture, if you can help it.
Try to get pieces of similar or complementing colors arranged throughout the whole suit. If the tie is patterned, use a solid-colored pocket square, and if the pocket square is patterned, be careful with busy patterns on the tie.
Complementing colors are easily found by looking at the color 180 degrees opposite the other on a color wheel. This is a type of magic.
Finally, if your son is going to appear on television, he'll want 1 more light blue shirt, and 1 good blue diagonally-striped tie. For reasons that escape me, blue shirts are the only thing that looks good on TV, and the tie has to match to keep up the effect. These will need to be worn with the navy suit. It looks weird in person, but it helps faces look good on the screen.
I hope this helps! Congratulations on your son's accomplishments that led him to this position!
posted by cthlsgnd at 7:17 PM on April 11, 2023 [26 favorites]
If it's not too presumptuous to just offer them, to the best of my understanding (and it is fallible, I was not raised with this), as rules rather than suggestions, it will better suit the occasion, because people in these settings often take notice when they're unintentionally violated.
Your son will need 3 suits. One dark grey, one dark navy, one black. These will need to be tailored. If there is any step it is essential not to skip, it is the tailoring of the suit. It has to fit perfectly. This is not an exorbitant expense, and it is worth more than all the rest.
The suits need to have identical pairs of jackets and pants; in other words, don't buy them separately.
The pants must fit around the waist correctly. This fit will be accomplished by a salesperson taking the measurements in person. The length of the pants will be tailored to fit the shoes that will be worn with the suit, so buy them long but make sure the waist fits. A professional tailor will need to measure the pants to the shoes before tailoring them.
People who don't wear suits often end up with pants that are wide or baggy around the legs, like they wore in the '80s. These will stand out. Tight pants are not normal on formal suits, but slim pants are, even to a degree on people who are not slim.
Your son will need 2 pairs of dress shoes: one black, one dark brown. The brown shoes go with the grey and navy suits, always, the black shoes always with the black suit.
He'll also need 2 belts, one black, one dark brown, both of them in a hue that matches, but not exactly, the corresponding shoes. The black shoes always go with the black suit and shoes, the grey always with the grey. The belts need to be long enough to tuck into the belt loop past the buckle on the pants, but not more than an inch or two beyond that, when the buckle is oriented over the fly.
In addition, he'll need 5 long-sleeved formal shirts, plain white, with at least one column of two buttons at the wrists, and with collars that fit discreetly within the jacket. Some collars stick way up and tend to get dislodged over the top of the jacket collar. Avoid these.
It is important to get the correct size on these shirts, in both of two measurements. Sizes are measured in numbers; for your purposes the measurements will never be small, medium or large. The sizes on a formal shirt are the neck diameter and the sleeve length. The salesperson will need to take the measurements.
To go with the dress shirts, and to be worn with them every time, he'll need at least 5 good white undershirts. These must be made to be undershirts; white t-shirts won't work. Cheap, thin shirts are not great either. People who don't dress formally may not know this, but when the undershirt is tucked in, it goes inside the underwear. The dress shirt is tucked into the pants.
If he gets 10 ties he'll have a good start. It's ok to get cheap ties. It's not good at all to get loud or unusual ties. Small patterns that your son likes on a subdued background are good. Diagonal stripes are a classic. Solid colors can be dicey, and so can paisleys, but lots of people pull them off. Flowers, especially small ones, are usually a good bet, so long as they're quiet. Textured fabrics can be risky. Shimmery fabric is found on some cheaper ties, and it generally doesn't look good.
Red ties are inappropriate for anyone but the boss. Black ties can be too formal, or they can be just right; it's a look, but it's pushing the norm a little.
If your son is tall, he might want a wider tie. If he's short, he should stick to thin ties. If he's heavy-set, a wide tie might suit better than a thin one.
He'll need to learn at least 2 of 3 knots: the four-in-hand, the half-Windsor, and the Windsor. The four-in-hand is slimmer and fits slighter builds, the half-Windsor is a bit bulkier, and the Windsor even more so; each in its turn complements a similar body type.
The tie must be the correct length, which is such that the front of the tie just reaches the top of the belt when tied, and with enough room for the back of the tie to descend probably 2/3 that distance as well.
Your son will require at least 5 new pairs of socks. They should be dark blue, for the grey and navy suits, and black for the black suit. Patterns or stripes may work, though, depending on the setting
He'll also need 5 pocket squares, to be on the safe side. Plain colors are ok, patterns are ok, anything that stands out much is generally not great. These should be folded discreetly, not billowing out.
Colors contained within patterns on ties, socks and pocket squares should approximately match or complement those of the suit, the shoes, the pocket square, or your son's eyes on any given day. Don't match them exactly, in fabric or in color or in texture, if you can help it.
Try to get pieces of similar or complementing colors arranged throughout the whole suit. If the tie is patterned, use a solid-colored pocket square, and if the pocket square is patterned, be careful with busy patterns on the tie.
Complementing colors are easily found by looking at the color 180 degrees opposite the other on a color wheel. This is a type of magic.
Finally, if your son is going to appear on television, he'll want 1 more light blue shirt, and 1 good blue diagonally-striped tie. For reasons that escape me, blue shirts are the only thing that looks good on TV, and the tie has to match to keep up the effect. These will need to be worn with the navy suit. It looks weird in person, but it helps faces look good on the screen.
I hope this helps! Congratulations on your son's accomplishments that led him to this position!
posted by cthlsgnd at 7:17 PM on April 11, 2023 [26 favorites]
Buy Nothing groups are a great resource; young people outgrow suits. I see beautiful ties at thrift shops. Don't forget belt, shoes & socks.
posted by theora55 at 7:38 PM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 7:38 PM on April 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Navy blue blazer, grey flannel pants and then khakis for extreme heat. Dressing for the hill.
posted by Ideefixe at 8:24 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 8:24 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hi, I work in DC — although not in Congress — and for my work have been to in-persons 3 times in the past 5 business days on the Hill (in Cannon and Russell specifically). This even though Congress is currently out.
A few comments in this thread are well meaning but, uh, not up to date. DC is *not* a fashionable city. And these are *interns.* Who work in *August.*
He doesn't need tailoring for this work environment, nor pocket squares.
Offices can vary a lot in their expectations (Feinstein is/was famously formal; I once had a meeting with a Jayapal staffer in ripped jeans, and a different meeting with a Schatz staffer wearing a nylon windbreaker), so getting the expectation of the specific office sorted is key.
I would say something like:
-two suits, ideally a lightweight to very lightweight fabric because DC summer. Navy and black, or navy and navy, but that's mostly for repeatability without other people paying attention.
-Get one suit in a fabric where using the jacket as a separate looks ok (I should admit: I own nice suits and this is what I do but I only put on my suits for formal events); or if you can afford it, an extra jacket
-one to two pairs of work slacks apart from the suit pants, particularly in case the office ends up being a lot less formal than it's letting on. These would potentially be of use in a future business-casual office environment as well.
-One pair of dress shoes is fine, black
-one belt to matach shoes
-5 no-iron shirts, white, is probably right
-Two ties. Important: navy suit, white shirt, red tie is usually Republican uniform. The blue tie is less strongly associated with Dems for whatever reason. Formal DC likes striped ties, I would probably suggest those. Honestly I only ever think about tie color for tv hits.
-dress socks
-Appropriate bag
Actually, I see tons of navy suits with cognac-color shoes here on the Hill. It's become a thing since pre-pandemic days. But it's probably better to check that out in person once here.
Agreed.
posted by migrantology at 8:32 PM on April 11, 2023 [31 favorites]
A few comments in this thread are well meaning but, uh, not up to date. DC is *not* a fashionable city. And these are *interns.* Who work in *August.*
He doesn't need tailoring for this work environment, nor pocket squares.
Offices can vary a lot in their expectations (Feinstein is/was famously formal; I once had a meeting with a Jayapal staffer in ripped jeans, and a different meeting with a Schatz staffer wearing a nylon windbreaker), so getting the expectation of the specific office sorted is key.
I would say something like:
-two suits, ideally a lightweight to very lightweight fabric because DC summer. Navy and black, or navy and navy, but that's mostly for repeatability without other people paying attention.
-Get one suit in a fabric where using the jacket as a separate looks ok (I should admit: I own nice suits and this is what I do but I only put on my suits for formal events); or if you can afford it, an extra jacket
-one to two pairs of work slacks apart from the suit pants, particularly in case the office ends up being a lot less formal than it's letting on. These would potentially be of use in a future business-casual office environment as well.
-One pair of dress shoes is fine, black
-one belt to matach shoes
-5 no-iron shirts, white, is probably right
-Two ties. Important: navy suit, white shirt, red tie is usually Republican uniform. The blue tie is less strongly associated with Dems for whatever reason. Formal DC likes striped ties, I would probably suggest those. Honestly I only ever think about tie color for tv hits.
-dress socks
-Appropriate bag
Actually, I see tons of navy suits with cognac-color shoes here on the Hill. It's become a thing since pre-pandemic days. But it's probably better to check that out in person once here.
Agreed.
posted by migrantology at 8:32 PM on April 11, 2023 [31 favorites]
He doesn't need tailoring for this work environment
I mostly agree, as long as off the rack works for him. I'm tall (with ensuing long arms) and have an unusually thick neck and broad shoulders for my build to the point that most formalwear that match my neck and sleeve length are designed for people that weigh 250-300lbs. At OP's son's age, I was 165. At that time, if I didn't get things tailored, I looked like a 12 year old dressing up in dad's clothing (and these days it just looks sloppy). Unless you are a completely average build or strapped for cash, getting an evaluation and modification by a good tailor can make a big difference in how a suit comes across and feels.
posted by Candleman at 8:55 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I mostly agree, as long as off the rack works for him. I'm tall (with ensuing long arms) and have an unusually thick neck and broad shoulders for my build to the point that most formalwear that match my neck and sleeve length are designed for people that weigh 250-300lbs. At OP's son's age, I was 165. At that time, if I didn't get things tailored, I looked like a 12 year old dressing up in dad's clothing (and these days it just looks sloppy). Unless you are a completely average build or strapped for cash, getting an evaluation and modification by a good tailor can make a big difference in how a suit comes across and feels.
posted by Candleman at 8:55 PM on April 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
3 administrations in DC and echoing migrantology. There is a lot of advice in this thread and it's largely useful, but it's also potentially overwhelming.
The only place I'll deviate from this thread is that if he's building a wardrobe from scratch I do not recommend a black suit initially - they are less versatile than navy/charcoal. As a 3rd or 4th suit, absolutely, sure. The hill is also less formal than 15 years ago (in general).
Otherwise, my TL;DR for DC hill interns:
* Dark suits, white and blue long sleeve shirts. Lightweight fabrics preferred, and "travel" or non-iron materials will cut down on maintenance.
* Have a couple of ties in the color of his party + others in basic styles he likes -- you can thrift endless ties in DC, absolutely zero need to buy new/full priced ties.
* The more boring the clothes less people will notice repeats. I wore the same 5 white dress shirts for 2 straight months as an intern and not a single person in my office noticed (I asked).
* If he expects to use these clothes after the summer then get extra pants if available, if this is a temporary wardrobe to get through the summer the pants will last a few months of hard use.
* Brown and black dress shoes are both fine on the hill. Brown belts go with brown shoes, black belts with black shoes. I would have 1 pair of each, which will make the shoes last longer. Depending on your preferences you can thrift nice dress shoes for cheap - I still have a couple of pairs of thrifted Allen Edmonds in my closet.
* Fit is is far, far more important than brand. A well-fitting cheap suit is strongly preferred over a poorly-fitting expensive suit. If there's someone around with a trusted eye for fit they'll prove invaluable in making purchases.
posted by matrixclown at 11:08 PM on April 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
The only place I'll deviate from this thread is that if he's building a wardrobe from scratch I do not recommend a black suit initially - they are less versatile than navy/charcoal. As a 3rd or 4th suit, absolutely, sure. The hill is also less formal than 15 years ago (in general).
Otherwise, my TL;DR for DC hill interns:
* Dark suits, white and blue long sleeve shirts. Lightweight fabrics preferred, and "travel" or non-iron materials will cut down on maintenance.
* Have a couple of ties in the color of his party + others in basic styles he likes -- you can thrift endless ties in DC, absolutely zero need to buy new/full priced ties.
* The more boring the clothes less people will notice repeats. I wore the same 5 white dress shirts for 2 straight months as an intern and not a single person in my office noticed (I asked).
* If he expects to use these clothes after the summer then get extra pants if available, if this is a temporary wardrobe to get through the summer the pants will last a few months of hard use.
* Brown and black dress shoes are both fine on the hill. Brown belts go with brown shoes, black belts with black shoes. I would have 1 pair of each, which will make the shoes last longer. Depending on your preferences you can thrift nice dress shoes for cheap - I still have a couple of pairs of thrifted Allen Edmonds in my closet.
* Fit is is far, far more important than brand. A well-fitting cheap suit is strongly preferred over a poorly-fitting expensive suit. If there's someone around with a trusted eye for fit they'll prove invaluable in making purchases.
posted by matrixclown at 11:08 PM on April 11, 2023 [10 favorites]
*2 suits (navy or charcoal, boring)
*5 or 6 shirts (white)
*1 but preferably 2 pairs of dress shoes (black or brown) with belt of same colour
*5 or 6 pairs dark socks
*a bunch of ties (min 3 but pref 6 or more)
posted by plonkee at 1:57 AM on April 12, 2023
*5 or 6 shirts (white)
*1 but preferably 2 pairs of dress shoes (black or brown) with belt of same colour
*5 or 6 pairs dark socks
*a bunch of ties (min 3 but pref 6 or more)
posted by plonkee at 1:57 AM on April 12, 2023
Make sure he has extra shirts, undershirts, a dry cleaning budget, and knows how often to do laundry and dry clean his suits. Extra shoes too. Proper dress socks.
And impeccable hygiene - being stinky is a career killer, and that means not smelling like sweat, feet, or hair sebum. Morning shower every day. Clean nails. Wash out ears with a washcloth. He should wash his eyeglasses every few days they don’t look greasy. No dandruff. Brushed and flossed teeth. Facial skincare to avoid flakiness. Etc.
I mention this because most teen-20s boys I know have really patchy hygiene and smell strongly like sweat and sebum, and it’s definitely noticeable when they get into settings with adults!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:22 AM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
And impeccable hygiene - being stinky is a career killer, and that means not smelling like sweat, feet, or hair sebum. Morning shower every day. Clean nails. Wash out ears with a washcloth. He should wash his eyeglasses every few days they don’t look greasy. No dandruff. Brushed and flossed teeth. Facial skincare to avoid flakiness. Etc.
I mention this because most teen-20s boys I know have really patchy hygiene and smell strongly like sweat and sebum, and it’s definitely noticeable when they get into settings with adults!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:22 AM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Extra things:
a couple pairs of shoes so he can rotate them out! Summer = sweaty feet.
A proper bag for work
Professional looking phone case
Underwear that fits correctly under a suit
Professional looking umbrella
a couple of good casual outfits (jeans, shorts, sneakers, T-shirts and shirts that aren’t ratty, baseball cap, jacket) for weekend outings or work bbq type things
Workout clothes that don’t look ratty
Most of this casual stuff can be thrifted to save money or from somewhere like Old Navy.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:28 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
a couple pairs of shoes so he can rotate them out! Summer = sweaty feet.
A proper bag for work
Professional looking phone case
Underwear that fits correctly under a suit
Professional looking umbrella
a couple of good casual outfits (jeans, shorts, sneakers, T-shirts and shirts that aren’t ratty, baseball cap, jacket) for weekend outings or work bbq type things
Workout clothes that don’t look ratty
Most of this casual stuff can be thrifted to save money or from somewhere like Old Navy.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:28 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
As someone who has worked on the Hill, the intern with the pocket square gets made fun of. Off the rack at Macys or Jos. A. Bank is sort of the standard Hill-tern uniform. 2 suits, 5 shirts, 6-7 conservative ties, a black belt, a pair of black shoes, and way more socks and undershirts than you think you'll need because of the humidity. He can pick up a few more things once he gets here and sees how everyone else is dressing.
And a pro tip: tell him to take off his Congressional ID badge when he leaves the building. There are blogs dedicated to mocking the self-important interns who try to use the fact that they work "on the Hill" to get access to things. Everyone knows they're kids, and it won't work, it'll just make people think they're douchey. Don't be that guy.
posted by decathecting at 8:24 AM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
And a pro tip: tell him to take off his Congressional ID badge when he leaves the building. There are blogs dedicated to mocking the self-important interns who try to use the fact that they work "on the Hill" to get access to things. Everyone knows they're kids, and it won't work, it'll just make people think they're douchey. Don't be that guy.
posted by decathecting at 8:24 AM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
"Generally, there are three dress codes that you may encounter in D.C.: Casual, Business Casual, and Business Professional" chart from UC Davis
Business Casual vs. Professional attire graphic at Purdue
How to Create a Professional Wardrobe on an Intern's Budget (Men's Edition) at the Washington Center has tips and store recs
Congressional Intern Handbook (Congress Foundation), Dressing the Part (Chapter 4, P. 49) has an overview.
The Quick Guide to ‘Best Intern Ever: How to Ace Your Capitol Hill Internship’ No. 3. Learn, memorize, internalize and follow the office dress code. (" Most offices have dress codes and will happily answer your questions about what to wear. Some stellar offices even have intern handbooks that address this directly. ")
Capitol Hill Staffers Explain DC’s Complex Dress Codes - see comments by "Emmanuel" for male attire
Affordable Workwear in the DMV List via What to Expect in Your Congressional Internship, via Internapalooza, the annual free, nonpartisan two-day orientation for Congressional interns
"A lot of the interns I knew didn’t really have many suits before because, unless they’re Paul Ryan’s kid, they don’t have money. We’d go to places like J.C. Penny, where they have a brand called JF J. Farrar, and for around 150 bucks, you can pick up a suit. People would just get one or two suits — always black, gray, or blue to match the congressmen — with white shirts, and then switch up the ties. The older congressmen are usually wearing clunky, old suits that are two sizes too big. For everyone else, fitted is key, but not too fitted." - Karam Singh, former intern on the Foreign Affairs Committee, from What to Buy to Look Like: A Capitol Hill Intern
This Intern Guide to DC has info. Var. advice from some former interns, etc.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:16 PM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
Business Casual vs. Professional attire graphic at Purdue
How to Create a Professional Wardrobe on an Intern's Budget (Men's Edition) at the Washington Center has tips and store recs
Congressional Intern Handbook (Congress Foundation), Dressing the Part (Chapter 4, P. 49) has an overview.
The Quick Guide to ‘Best Intern Ever: How to Ace Your Capitol Hill Internship’ No. 3. Learn, memorize, internalize and follow the office dress code. (" Most offices have dress codes and will happily answer your questions about what to wear. Some stellar offices even have intern handbooks that address this directly. ")
Capitol Hill Staffers Explain DC’s Complex Dress Codes - see comments by "Emmanuel" for male attire
Affordable Workwear in the DMV List via What to Expect in Your Congressional Internship, via Internapalooza, the annual free, nonpartisan two-day orientation for Congressional interns
"A lot of the interns I knew didn’t really have many suits before because, unless they’re Paul Ryan’s kid, they don’t have money. We’d go to places like J.C. Penny, where they have a brand called JF J. Farrar, and for around 150 bucks, you can pick up a suit. People would just get one or two suits — always black, gray, or blue to match the congressmen — with white shirts, and then switch up the ties. The older congressmen are usually wearing clunky, old suits that are two sizes too big. For everyone else, fitted is key, but not too fitted." - Karam Singh, former intern on the Foreign Affairs Committee, from What to Buy to Look Like: A Capitol Hill Intern
This Intern Guide to DC has info. Var. advice from some former interns, etc.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:16 PM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
Iris Gambol's second link from the Washington Center is excellent.
If you are getting more than one suit, get one that's black if only to have ready to go for funerals. I'd lean towards a charcoal suit, a black suit, black shoes, and a black belt. Black dress socks are seldom wrong and just less to think about.
I'd insist on getting no iron dress shirts. They usually have ok enough ones at Marshall's/TJMaxx/etc. That and undershirts are the things it makes sense for him to wash and dry himself and there's no need to add ironing to that task.
Not only are ties easy to thrift, but if you ask around, there are probably people you know happy to get rid of some ties and give them to him for free.
I've had some luck finding suits at Marshall's/TJ Maxx/Nordstrom Rack type places, but when something is on sale at Macy's it's pretty price competitive and you get actual service there, and when you are just starting out, getting a decent fitting and some advice is worth it.
posted by advicepig at 12:26 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you are getting more than one suit, get one that's black if only to have ready to go for funerals. I'd lean towards a charcoal suit, a black suit, black shoes, and a black belt. Black dress socks are seldom wrong and just less to think about.
I'd insist on getting no iron dress shirts. They usually have ok enough ones at Marshall's/TJMaxx/etc. That and undershirts are the things it makes sense for him to wash and dry himself and there's no need to add ironing to that task.
Not only are ties easy to thrift, but if you ask around, there are probably people you know happy to get rid of some ties and give them to him for free.
I've had some luck finding suits at Marshall's/TJ Maxx/Nordstrom Rack type places, but when something is on sale at Macy's it's pretty price competitive and you get actual service there, and when you are just starting out, getting a decent fitting and some advice is worth it.
posted by advicepig at 12:26 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've had great luck finding ties for my spouse on eBay. They often will have a lot of 5 to 10 Brooks Brothers ties for absurdly low prices, like $5 a tie.
posted by notjustthefish at 1:41 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by notjustthefish at 1:41 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
One navy suit, one grey or charcoal. No black suit. Both suits solid and flat - no patterns, texture or pinstripes. Single breasted, two or three buttons - no double breasted suits, no four (or more) button suits). Medium-width lapels - at least half an inch wider, if not more, than the skinny sportcoats and separates you might see at a fast-fashion place. ONLY standard notch lapels, never peak or shawl. Tailoring is important but remember that DC is not fashion forward; suit and trousers should be a bit baggier than would seem fashionable. Pant cuff should be at the shoes, not above them. Suit sleeve should above the wrist so you can get a nice 3/4" inch of shirt cuff visible. DC-style suits still have shoulder pads!
One pair of nice black dress shoes, and a black leather belt to match. While I agree that brown shoes (and belt) are now acceptable with suits, they are certainly not necessary for expense or hassle.
Five white dress shirts - long sleeve, point collar (not button down or spread). Buy and use collar stays unless the shirts have good sewn-in stays. Regular button cuffs are fine - french cuffs are fussy and a little out of order unless you have a nice set of jewelry-caliber cufflinks AND a nice expensive watch, which presumably you don't have. Dress shirts aren't sold by S-M-L-XL they are sold by sleeve length and neck circumference. GET A BIGGER NECK SIZE than you would for a shirt you don't wear buttoned with a tie.
posted by MattD at 2:24 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
One pair of nice black dress shoes, and a black leather belt to match. While I agree that brown shoes (and belt) are now acceptable with suits, they are certainly not necessary for expense or hassle.
Five white dress shirts - long sleeve, point collar (not button down or spread). Buy and use collar stays unless the shirts have good sewn-in stays. Regular button cuffs are fine - french cuffs are fussy and a little out of order unless you have a nice set of jewelry-caliber cufflinks AND a nice expensive watch, which presumably you don't have. Dress shirts aren't sold by S-M-L-XL they are sold by sleeve length and neck circumference. GET A BIGGER NECK SIZE than you would for a shirt you don't wear buttoned with a tie.
posted by MattD at 2:24 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Adding that watching a couple videos on how to iron a shirt has saved me a lot of time and my shirts look better. Even if they’re no-iron, to look extra nice.
A travel garment steamer is an alternative that is cheap, hard to screw up, and doesn’t require a board.
posted by momus_window at 2:28 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
A travel garment steamer is an alternative that is cheap, hard to screw up, and doesn’t require a board.
posted by momus_window at 2:28 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
dress shirts: go a smidge large in the neck, else a new-to-dress-up guy is gonna climb the walls all day
posted by j_curiouser at 3:51 PM on April 12, 2023
posted by j_curiouser at 3:51 PM on April 12, 2023
I highly recommend getting at least one haircut at Diego’s, near Dupont Circle. Incredibly talented barbers, and the time I went to get my lady-hair cut, I sat down and heard immediately “The Senator was just sitting there!!!! Senator?” (The Senator waved it off and stepped outside on his phone.) GREAT people-watching.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 4:37 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 4:37 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
The answer has basically been covered, but a couple of things to emphasize:
Pocket squares are uncommon and not necessary
Shirts can be white or light blue
Four-in-hand is the only tie knot needed
Black suits are not common for business attire in the US, stick with navy and charcoal
Suit jackets should generally not be worn separately from their matching trousers
Dark brown shoes are acceptable with a navy suit, but avoid light tan shoes
Avoid "dress sneakers"
For warm-weather suiting, look for high-twist wool aka tropical wool
When wearing a two-button suit jacket, the top button should be fastened but the bottom button should not
posted by ludwig_van at 5:27 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Pocket squares are uncommon and not necessary
Shirts can be white or light blue
Four-in-hand is the only tie knot needed
Black suits are not common for business attire in the US, stick with navy and charcoal
Suit jackets should generally not be worn separately from their matching trousers
Dark brown shoes are acceptable with a navy suit, but avoid light tan shoes
Avoid "dress sneakers"
For warm-weather suiting, look for high-twist wool aka tropical wool
When wearing a two-button suit jacket, the top button should be fastened but the bottom button should not
posted by ludwig_van at 5:27 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Moleskin-type barrier while breaking in new dress shoes, carry Band-aids too
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:37 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:37 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Black suits are not common for business attire in the US, stick with navy and charcoal
Yes, and it's hot and humid enough here wearing adding black clothing to absorb heat! He might want to purchase a tan or light(er) blue suit -- really! -- once he's here and has scoped things out a bit.
And it's perfectly acceptable to carry the jacket and tie when commuting or even walking between the office buildings.
posted by jgirl at 12:15 PM on April 13, 2023
Yes, and it's hot and humid enough here wearing adding black clothing to absorb heat! He might want to purchase a tan or light(er) blue suit -- really! -- once he's here and has scoped things out a bit.
And it's perfectly acceptable to carry the jacket and tie when commuting or even walking between the office buildings.
posted by jgirl at 12:15 PM on April 13, 2023
Just wanted to point out that Nordstrom Rack (and Nordstrom) will tailor clothes for you for free if you have one of their cards. They will also measure your son correctly in the men's department for a suit and shirt regardless of whether or not you have a Nordstrom account.
Their easy care dress shirts are worth every penny - wash them, dry them till damp, and hang them up. I can usually find Mr. dancinglamb's size at Nordy Rack if I hunt!
Good luck!
posted by dancinglamb at 11:01 PM on April 13, 2023
Their easy care dress shirts are worth every penny - wash them, dry them till damp, and hang them up. I can usually find Mr. dancinglamb's size at Nordy Rack if I hunt!
Good luck!
posted by dancinglamb at 11:01 PM on April 13, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Medieval Maven at 4:04 PM on April 11, 2023 [30 favorites]