What other characters fit this archetype?
April 4, 2023 7:10 PM Subscribe
I don’t want to default to Harry Potter character analogies these days, because fuck J.K. Rowling, but I’m having trouble thinking of other literary or media characters that fill a niche similar to Dolores Umbridge. Hit me with your best villains hiding their intentions under a thin veneer of saccharine kitsch.
The specific thing about Umbridge that strikes me is that the kind of femininity she’s weaponizing is about being outwardly cutesy and unthreatening, not about being fuckable. Who else fits that vibe?
No, I am absolutely not looking for heartless villains to compare my boss to, why would you ever think that about me?
The specific thing about Umbridge that strikes me is that the kind of femininity she’s weaponizing is about being outwardly cutesy and unthreatening, not about being fuckable. Who else fits that vibe?
No, I am absolutely not looking for heartless villains to compare my boss to, why would you ever think that about me?
Umbridge always made me think of Margaret Thatcher. She wasn't cutesy, but she always kept a veneer of socially acceptable femininity over the steel.
Mrs Coulter in His Dark Materials has similarities.
posted by zadcat at 7:17 PM on April 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
Mrs Coulter in His Dark Materials has similarities.
posted by zadcat at 7:17 PM on April 4, 2023 [12 favorites]
In Midnight Mass, Bev Keane uses another brand of socially acceptable femininity (the pious kind) as a veil.
posted by eirias at 7:41 PM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by eirias at 7:41 PM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Kai Winn from Deep Space Nine
posted by daisystomper at 8:12 PM on April 4, 2023 [34 favorites]
posted by daisystomper at 8:12 PM on April 4, 2023 [34 favorites]
Gladys and Becky Ann Leeman in Drop Dead Gorgeous.
Hilary Faye in Saved.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 8:24 PM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Hilary Faye in Saved.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 8:24 PM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
The character was probably based at least partly on Mary Whitehouse, who was seen in her own time either as a figure of fun, or as a reactionary bigot, but whose legacy is a bit more complicated (and not entirely villainous).
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:39 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:39 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Perhaps a bit obscure, but Cozy Glow from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic uses her "I'm just an adorable child trying to be a good friend" shtick to take over the School of Friendship, ultimately becoming an extinction-level event villain on a par with Tirek and Queen Chrysalis.
posted by SPrintF at 8:56 PM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 8:56 PM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
Early Sarah Palin.
posted by kapers at 9:29 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by kapers at 9:29 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Misty from Yellowjackets might fit this. Sometimes she arguably tries to use "fuckability" as a tool to get what she wants, but more often she presents herself as ditzy or hapless or just guilelessly cheerful so that people won't notice she's a psychopath.
(Whether she's a villain might also be up for debate. But villain or not, she does do some cold blooded shit while trying to look harmless.)
posted by cubeb at 9:58 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
(Whether she's a villain might also be up for debate. But villain or not, she does do some cold blooded shit while trying to look harmless.)
posted by cubeb at 9:58 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sarah Newlin from the TV series True Blood.
She will torture, murder and set up death-camps while insisting in a saccharin voice that it's for their own good and that she's just doing what Jesus wants her to do.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:59 PM on April 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
She will torture, murder and set up death-camps while insisting in a saccharin voice that it's for their own good and that she's just doing what Jesus wants her to do.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:59 PM on April 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Nurse Ratched of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest might be a little cutesyness deficient, but otherwise seems almost like the Ur-Example of the Type.
posted by jamjam at 10:25 PM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 10:25 PM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
The Other Mother from Coraline.
posted by Mizu at 10:39 PM on April 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 10:39 PM on April 4, 2023 [7 favorites]
Nellie Oleson?
posted by amtho at 11:06 PM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by amtho at 11:06 PM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think an early version of this would be Uriah Heep from David Copperfield. His thing was more a veneer of humility and servility (his characteristic line is "Oh sir, I'm only an 'umble..." or some variant) while plotting against people.
The main villain in I think the second season of Justified is a woman who's head of a crime family out in the boonies and is very down-home polite and obsequious, all smiles but I think almost the first scene in that season is her poisoning someone and talking them through it all in "oh honey don't worry" style. Played by Margo Martindale, whom you might recognize from characters with some similar sweet-but-tough traits.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:05 AM on April 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
The main villain in I think the second season of Justified is a woman who's head of a crime family out in the boonies and is very down-home polite and obsequious, all smiles but I think almost the first scene in that season is her poisoning someone and talking them through it all in "oh honey don't worry" style. Played by Margo Martindale, whom you might recognize from characters with some similar sweet-but-tough traits.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:05 AM on April 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
Oh that’s two Louise Fletcher!
Maybe Annie Wilkes from Misery?
I’d call the TVTrope more Sugary Malice, though that’s definitely an underdeveloped page of examples.
posted by supercres at 12:32 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
Maybe Annie Wilkes from Misery?
I’d call the TVTrope more Sugary Malice, though that’s definitely an underdeveloped page of examples.
posted by supercres at 12:32 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
Phyllis Schlafly (real person, but they recently made a miniseries about her, so counts as a character perhaps?)
Mary J. Brown - woman who heads a conversion therapy camp from the film But I'm a Cheerleader
I suspect the characters you're looking for will most commonly be found in anti-suburban/anti-establishment stories from the 1980s to early 1990s, eg. But I'm a Cheerleader, or Heathers or similar anti-teen-movie movies. Possibly also anime?
posted by eviemath at 3:41 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Mary J. Brown - woman who heads a conversion therapy camp from the film But I'm a Cheerleader
I suspect the characters you're looking for will most commonly be found in anti-suburban/anti-establishment stories from the 1980s to early 1990s, eg. But I'm a Cheerleader, or Heathers or similar anti-teen-movie movies. Possibly also anime?
posted by eviemath at 3:41 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Aunt Lydia in The Handmaid's Tale varies but there is always this sort of faux-benevolent attitude with her.
posted by BibiRose at 4:53 AM on April 5, 2023
posted by BibiRose at 4:53 AM on April 5, 2023
Mary "Baby-Doll" Dahl of Batman: The Animated Series?
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:26 AM on April 5, 2023
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:26 AM on April 5, 2023
Dawn Bellwether, the mayor's assistant from Zootopia.
posted by hat_eater at 6:03 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by hat_eater at 6:03 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
Mentioned somewhat above, but any character played by Kathy Bates (Annie Wilkes), Anne Dowd (Aunt Lydia) or Margo Martindale is worth a look - here's an article about the latter two from a few years ago talking about some of their roles.
posted by itsatextfile at 6:07 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by itsatextfile at 6:07 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Two musical theater ideas come to mind. Pippin goes into this via the characters of Fastrada and Catherine - Fastrada has the veneer of a loving (step)mother while secretly plotting to put her son on the throne ("Spread a Little Sunshine"). Catherine could arguably also be hidden evil (as the whole troupe is supposed to be) but is incapable of going along with the plans ("I guess I'll Miss the Man").
Maybe a little more on the nose (no pun intended), Wicked is pretty explicitly about how Glinda the Good Witch is almost entirely facade and quite manipulative underneath, while Elfaba has the purer heart.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:24 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Maybe a little more on the nose (no pun intended), Wicked is pretty explicitly about how Glinda the Good Witch is almost entirely facade and quite manipulative underneath, while Elfaba has the purer heart.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:24 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Effie Trinket from The Hunger Games?
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 8:21 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 8:21 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
Nan Pierce - the matriarch of a media family business that competes with/acts as a foil to Waystar/Royco - fits this description well. She falls all over herself to be an aw-shucks kindly aunt type, saying frequently how distasteful all of the business stuff is. But then she's a shark when it comes to getting the deal she wants.
posted by AgentRocket at 8:52 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by AgentRocket at 8:52 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Senator Palpatine!
It's hard to say if this was done intentionally, but I think Dumbledore can also be read as an example of the same archetype. Kind, wise old wizard leading Harry to what he expects to be certain death and conscripting the rest of the students under his care into a child army? Even for the noblest cause, ice cold.
posted by potrzebie at 9:04 AM on April 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's hard to say if this was done intentionally, but I think Dumbledore can also be read as an example of the same archetype. Kind, wise old wizard leading Harry to what he expects to be certain death and conscripting the rest of the students under his care into a child army? Even for the noblest cause, ice cold.
posted by potrzebie at 9:04 AM on April 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Misty in Yellowjackets ?
She does cross the line into full-on dangerous mode pretty quickly, though.
posted by rpfields at 9:27 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
She does cross the line into full-on dangerous mode pretty quickly, though.
posted by rpfields at 9:27 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Helen A from the Doctor Who serial The Happiness Patrol.
posted by darchildre at 10:09 AM on April 5, 2023
posted by darchildre at 10:09 AM on April 5, 2023
Everything except the femininity: Mayor Wilkins from S3 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. He's a gosh darned wholesome family man who is also a demon trying to destroy the world. He is both of these things sincerely and unironically.
posted by gideonfrog at 11:24 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by gideonfrog at 11:24 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
A slightly different take: Shirley Bennett from Community. She uses her powers for good, but the effect is similar.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 4:43 PM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 4:43 PM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ooooh I've got it! The witch from Hansel and Gretel!
posted by amtho at 4:50 PM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 4:50 PM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Caroline Bingley in Pride and Prejudice sort of fits this. And it's been a while, but I think Joan Cusack's character in Addams Family Values.
(Certain styles of sci-fi and and children's stories are definitely ripe with these type of characters, but I'm having trouble bringing specifics to mind.)
posted by Saucy Possum at 8:59 PM on April 5, 2023
(Certain styles of sci-fi and and children's stories are definitely ripe with these type of characters, but I'm having trouble bringing specifics to mind.)
posted by Saucy Possum at 8:59 PM on April 5, 2023
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