New car conundrum
February 27, 2023 11:31 AM Subscribe
How do I think through my choices for my next car? How do I weigh comfort, cost, and sustainability when I need to get a new car, for a long highway commute I hate?
I have a leased car I need to turn in. I am a bit lost in choosing my next car and could use help thinking through, at a high level, the various costs and considerations. Help get me unstuck, please!
I am leaving out lots of detail, and I am not looking for a recommendation of any specific car. Rather, given the below constraints / considerations, how do I decide what wins out?
- I took a new, high-paying job during COVID that recently went back to office 3x/week. On those three days I can commute by car (one way: 1-1.25hrs in heavy highway traffic) or by train (one way: 2 hours).
- Besides the commute, this is a good job for a lot of reasons and I don't want to change in the next 2 years. The back to office is (again for good reasons) not negotiable.
For my next car I could choose:
- Most expensive: something similar to my current car, a comfortable plug-in hybrid with lots of features that make it easy and comfortable to drive
- Slightly less expensive: a small all-electric with fewer features but still reasonably comfortable.
- Middle choice: medium-sized hybrid, decently equipped but the savings on gas not super significant
- Least expensive: basic small-ish car (not hybrid) with less features, significantly less comfortable to drive on long commute. For a gas car, it's pretty efficient.
How do I think through and prioritize each of the following?
- Carbon emissions. Every second I am driving I am thinking about how wasteful and stupid it is, and how I am destroying the planet. This is, no joke, impacting my mental health. Electricity is relatively cheap and clean where I live.
- Cost. I can technically afford the slightly less expensive electric option, but it stretches my budget in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I don't think I can afford the big, comfortable plug-in again. But maybe I need to be uncomfortable to be doing my part for climate change?
- Comfort. My drive is really nasty mix of highway and stop-and-go traffic. A car with features like adaptive cruise control, stay in lane technology, heated seats, etc. makes a big difference in mental and physical fatigue. But obviously cost money!
- Time. I could also take the train, which solves my carbon emission and comfort problems. But it's 4 hours total (assuming no delays), which is really daunting and would keep my from my family on those days.
Appreciate any thoughts or advice this community has. Thanks for your help!
I have a leased car I need to turn in. I am a bit lost in choosing my next car and could use help thinking through, at a high level, the various costs and considerations. Help get me unstuck, please!
I am leaving out lots of detail, and I am not looking for a recommendation of any specific car. Rather, given the below constraints / considerations, how do I decide what wins out?
- I took a new, high-paying job during COVID that recently went back to office 3x/week. On those three days I can commute by car (one way: 1-1.25hrs in heavy highway traffic) or by train (one way: 2 hours).
- Besides the commute, this is a good job for a lot of reasons and I don't want to change in the next 2 years. The back to office is (again for good reasons) not negotiable.
For my next car I could choose:
- Most expensive: something similar to my current car, a comfortable plug-in hybrid with lots of features that make it easy and comfortable to drive
- Slightly less expensive: a small all-electric with fewer features but still reasonably comfortable.
- Middle choice: medium-sized hybrid, decently equipped but the savings on gas not super significant
- Least expensive: basic small-ish car (not hybrid) with less features, significantly less comfortable to drive on long commute. For a gas car, it's pretty efficient.
How do I think through and prioritize each of the following?
- Carbon emissions. Every second I am driving I am thinking about how wasteful and stupid it is, and how I am destroying the planet. This is, no joke, impacting my mental health. Electricity is relatively cheap and clean where I live.
- Cost. I can technically afford the slightly less expensive electric option, but it stretches my budget in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I don't think I can afford the big, comfortable plug-in again. But maybe I need to be uncomfortable to be doing my part for climate change?
- Comfort. My drive is really nasty mix of highway and stop-and-go traffic. A car with features like adaptive cruise control, stay in lane technology, heated seats, etc. makes a big difference in mental and physical fatigue. But obviously cost money!
- Time. I could also take the train, which solves my carbon emission and comfort problems. But it's 4 hours total (assuming no delays), which is really daunting and would keep my from my family on those days.
Appreciate any thoughts or advice this community has. Thanks for your help!
I gently suggest that the reason this decision is difficult is that you are dreading every aspect of this commute. As such, I suggest a reframe of this question to:
"I'm going to take the train 2 hours each way to work, what do I need to make that awesome, and then what kind of car do I need for pleasant non-commuting tasks"?
Because HOLY COW no car would help in that commuting scenario. You are not me, but I'd gladly forego the (slight) time savings of a hellish car ride to take the train where I can read, work, veg out, pee, walk around, and not get honked at.
posted by nkknkk at 12:22 PM on February 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
"I'm going to take the train 2 hours each way to work, what do I need to make that awesome, and then what kind of car do I need for pleasant non-commuting tasks"?
Because HOLY COW no car would help in that commuting scenario. You are not me, but I'd gladly forego the (slight) time savings of a hellish car ride to take the train where I can read, work, veg out, pee, walk around, and not get honked at.
posted by nkknkk at 12:22 PM on February 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
Does your commute offer faster HOV lanes that single-occupancy electric cars can use? (Not sure if that is a US only phenomenon.) Getting that sticker was a deciding factor for me in choosing an electric car and shaved off about 25% of my commute time.
posted by platinum at 12:24 PM on February 27, 2023
posted by platinum at 12:24 PM on February 27, 2023
I would think about what is most likely to keep you in this job for the next 2 years (ie, not make you so burned out that you need to leave), with the least disturbance to your life. To my outsider's perspective, that would either be one of the more expensive cars OR the train.
One thing to think about: even if the train keeps you away for an extra 60-90 minutes a day, would the tradeoff of a less-stressful commute make that time together actually better? Would you be able to get some things done on the train that would let you focus more on time together when you're home? Would you be able to use the 2-hour commute to do something that relaxes you?
But maybe I need to be uncomfortable to be doing my part for climate change?
The climate doesn't care if you're comfortable or uncomfortable. Take it from someone who has worked in the climate movement since the 2000s - do what you can to live more sustainably, but make sure it's sustainable for YOU as well, or you won't be able to, well, sustain it.
posted by lunasol at 12:37 PM on February 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
One thing to think about: even if the train keeps you away for an extra 60-90 minutes a day, would the tradeoff of a less-stressful commute make that time together actually better? Would you be able to get some things done on the train that would let you focus more on time together when you're home? Would you be able to use the 2-hour commute to do something that relaxes you?
But maybe I need to be uncomfortable to be doing my part for climate change?
The climate doesn't care if you're comfortable or uncomfortable. Take it from someone who has worked in the climate movement since the 2000s - do what you can to live more sustainably, but make sure it's sustainable for YOU as well, or you won't be able to, well, sustain it.
posted by lunasol at 12:37 PM on February 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Are you allowed to work on the train, and include some of that working time in your working day?
If you have any regular tasks that benefit from uninterrupted time, I'd try to make a case to your employers that you could dedicate eg. an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening to working during your train commute, and subtract that from the time you spend in the office. Your overall day is then 2 hours shorter, and you're getting 2 hours of quality uninterrupted work time on the train which should benefit your productivity. (You're also getting another hour of chilling time of your own each way).
posted by penguin pie at 12:55 PM on February 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
If you have any regular tasks that benefit from uninterrupted time, I'd try to make a case to your employers that you could dedicate eg. an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening to working during your train commute, and subtract that from the time you spend in the office. Your overall day is then 2 hours shorter, and you're getting 2 hours of quality uninterrupted work time on the train which should benefit your productivity. (You're also getting another hour of chilling time of your own each way).
posted by penguin pie at 12:55 PM on February 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is really tough! Ultimately, the problem is being so car-dependent, and that seems the part you don't want to compromise on right now, so you'll have to compromise other values. The more expensive and more comfortable cars still won't make your commute pleasant, and you might feel more stuck in the job because of the car.
A few other ideas:
Do you work contiguous days and could you ever leave your car there? For example, I am wondering if you could drive in Monday morning (or whenever) and then take the train home Monday evening and back Tuesday morning. Or, could you negotiate two longer days instead of three days and take the train both ways and stay overnight?
Could you carpool even once a week with a coworker or someone else who works in the area?
posted by bluedaisy at 1:12 PM on February 27, 2023
A few other ideas:
Do you work contiguous days and could you ever leave your car there? For example, I am wondering if you could drive in Monday morning (or whenever) and then take the train home Monday evening and back Tuesday morning. Or, could you negotiate two longer days instead of three days and take the train both ways and stay overnight?
Could you carpool even once a week with a coworker or someone else who works in the area?
posted by bluedaisy at 1:12 PM on February 27, 2023
Is there any possibility of working for 30-60 minutes on the train and spending a little less time in the office (with the approval of your employer)?
posted by piyushnz at 1:31 PM on February 27, 2023
posted by piyushnz at 1:31 PM on February 27, 2023
Totally agree about trying to negotiate working on the train. The train will be way less stressful than driving. It looks like maybe you're in the Bay Area? If so, it should also be completely possible to find a carpooling partner. But I still would vote for the train.
posted by pinochiette at 1:52 PM on February 27, 2023
posted by pinochiette at 1:52 PM on February 27, 2023
I don't know what world people are living in where they can magically negotiate working on a train. It's certainly not the one I inhabit.
You need to buy the vehicle that makes you the most comfortable and the most safe. If that means safety features (adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, etc.) then those are the features you need to look for in your next car. (Personally, those kinds of things mostly drive me nuts. I like a plainer, less tech-dependent vehicle.)
A lot of these features can be purchased on less upscale models of cars. They will cost you, but maybe not as much as buying the super, high-end vehicle.
If you've got a long, nasty commute, make sure the vehicle you're buying is physically comfortable as well--that the seat doesn't cause you back pain, and that you don't have to get too close to the steering wheel to reach the pedals, those kinds of things.
I would also make sure that even in the worst conditions and circumstances (really cold, bad weather causing a terrible traffic jam and the battery to be at its least efficient) that an all electric (if you go that route) will be able to get you home without needing to stop for a charge. I've got a family member with a terrible commute and there are EVs that, under those conditions, wouldn't actually get him home. If there is any doubt, get the hybrid.
Remember, the safer and more comfortable you feel behind the wheel (I don't mean cushy-couch comfortable, but not worried/panicked/stressed comfortable) the safer and better driver you will be, which makes everybody else on the road around you safer. As much as the climate is a concern, road safety should be your priority. Pick and choose the best option to ensure the maximum safety and comfort that is affordable within your budget.
Also keep in mind that you may find similar cars to your current one but slightly cheaper if you look at brand cousins. A Chevrolet not a Cadillac or a SEAT not an Audi.
posted by sardonyx at 2:21 PM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
You need to buy the vehicle that makes you the most comfortable and the most safe. If that means safety features (adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, etc.) then those are the features you need to look for in your next car. (Personally, those kinds of things mostly drive me nuts. I like a plainer, less tech-dependent vehicle.)
A lot of these features can be purchased on less upscale models of cars. They will cost you, but maybe not as much as buying the super, high-end vehicle.
If you've got a long, nasty commute, make sure the vehicle you're buying is physically comfortable as well--that the seat doesn't cause you back pain, and that you don't have to get too close to the steering wheel to reach the pedals, those kinds of things.
I would also make sure that even in the worst conditions and circumstances (really cold, bad weather causing a terrible traffic jam and the battery to be at its least efficient) that an all electric (if you go that route) will be able to get you home without needing to stop for a charge. I've got a family member with a terrible commute and there are EVs that, under those conditions, wouldn't actually get him home. If there is any doubt, get the hybrid.
Remember, the safer and more comfortable you feel behind the wheel (I don't mean cushy-couch comfortable, but not worried/panicked/stressed comfortable) the safer and better driver you will be, which makes everybody else on the road around you safer. As much as the climate is a concern, road safety should be your priority. Pick and choose the best option to ensure the maximum safety and comfort that is affordable within your budget.
Also keep in mind that you may find similar cars to your current one but slightly cheaper if you look at brand cousins. A Chevrolet not a Cadillac or a SEAT not an Audi.
posted by sardonyx at 2:21 PM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I did a train / car commute to the same workplace once. It looked like this, per day -
150 minutes of commute by train -
- 20 minutes of naps
- 70 minutes of power walking (exercise)
- 40 minutes of using the internet to read news and articles, browsing social media
90 minutes of commute by car -
- 90 minutes of listening to national news radio
It wasn't clear to me that driving saved me much time at all.
posted by xdvesper at 2:30 PM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
150 minutes of commute by train -
- 20 minutes of naps
- 70 minutes of power walking (exercise)
- 40 minutes of using the internet to read news and articles, browsing social media
90 minutes of commute by car -
- 90 minutes of listening to national news radio
It wasn't clear to me that driving saved me much time at all.
posted by xdvesper at 2:30 PM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's hard to give good advice when you won't say what country you are located in or what cars you are considering, but as far as I am aware, there is not anywhere in the world where you can guarantee availability of specific hybrid, plug in or otherwise, on short notice. Are you really certain that these cars are all available to you at the time that you desire?
posted by Kwine at 2:30 PM on February 27, 2023
posted by Kwine at 2:30 PM on February 27, 2023
Sorry to come in late on this, but why exactly do you need to purchase a car? Usually at the end of a lease you have the option to purchase the car at a specific price that was set in your original contract. Nobody knew in February 2020 that the car market would go haywire.
Right now that path may be cheaper than any new/used car of similar class and mileage available on the market. If you've been home for the length of COVID your current car probably is WAY under the expected mileage and is in excellent shape.
Is there a reason you haven't considered purchasing the car?
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:46 PM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Right now that path may be cheaper than any new/used car of similar class and mileage available on the market. If you've been home for the length of COVID your current car probably is WAY under the expected mileage and is in excellent shape.
Is there a reason you haven't considered purchasing the car?
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:46 PM on February 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
To generalize a bit, the basic use case for a plug-in hybrid is for people who take a lot of short trips (which they can do entirely or mostly on battery power), but occasionally take longer or more remote trips where a pure EV would be limiting.
It sounds like this isn't really your situation - you'll be taking a lot of long journeys. Without knowing any of the numbers, my hunch would be that, for you, a pure hybrid is probably both the more environmentally friendly and the cheaper option compared to a plug-in hybrid.
posted by kickingtheground at 3:03 PM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
It sounds like this isn't really your situation - you'll be taking a lot of long journeys. Without knowing any of the numbers, my hunch would be that, for you, a pure hybrid is probably both the more environmentally friendly and the cheaper option compared to a plug-in hybrid.
posted by kickingtheground at 3:03 PM on February 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't know what world people are living in where they can magically negotiate working on a train. It's certainly not the one I inhabit.
The world you inhabit isn’t universal. This would be possible in my (entirely non-magical) world. Particularly since Covid, when employers in “my world” have become way more amenable to a whole range of flexible working practices.
Since we don’t know exactly which world OP inhabits, it’s a reasonable suggestion to throw out there, for them to accept or reject as per their circumstances.
posted by penguin pie at 3:46 PM on February 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
The world you inhabit isn’t universal. This would be possible in my (entirely non-magical) world. Particularly since Covid, when employers in “my world” have become way more amenable to a whole range of flexible working practices.
Since we don’t know exactly which world OP inhabits, it’s a reasonable suggestion to throw out there, for them to accept or reject as per their circumstances.
posted by penguin pie at 3:46 PM on February 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
I use adaptive cruise and lane-keeping in traffic all the time, and it's wonderful. This was my non-negotiable feature. I chose a new car that has these features on a lower trim level (Nissan) and I'm happy.
That is to say, I think you will be unhappy with a downgrade. But maybe you can find the features you really need in a less expensive car with a lower trim level. Maybe it'll be a full EV or another PHEV.
Also yeah, see if you can just buy your leased car.
posted by credulous at 4:21 PM on February 27, 2023
That is to say, I think you will be unhappy with a downgrade. But maybe you can find the features you really need in a less expensive car with a lower trim level. Maybe it'll be a full EV or another PHEV.
Also yeah, see if you can just buy your leased car.
posted by credulous at 4:21 PM on February 27, 2023
I'll push back at the pro-train pile-on. I've done long commutes by both methods. The longer train ride can be a real pain in the ass, especially with frequent delays, crowding, sketchy connections, and long final miles at either or both ends. So there's that too.
posted by ovvl at 5:49 PM on February 27, 2023
posted by ovvl at 5:49 PM on February 27, 2023
I would absolutely prioritize adaptive cruise control and lane keeping tech as these really help with the mental fatigue of driving. Next I would look for a vehicle with a quiet cabin as this also helps with fatigue. Third I would look for a hybrid vehicle. In the US, I'd look at the 2023 Accord Touring Hybrid.
posted by LoveHam at 4:48 AM on February 28, 2023
posted by LoveHam at 4:48 AM on February 28, 2023
I don't know what world people are living in where they can magically negotiate working on a train. It's certainly not the one I inhabit.
My world is like that. My work is supposed to be client based and if I work on the train it’s working hrs, if not any travel up to an hr each way is not work. So I can work on trains and the travel policy encourages me to do so…..my problem is that I am only productive on the train in the morning, not at night. I also find that by evening there is a greater chance of delays and such. Finally, the reason this works is because we’re allowed to travel 1st class, ie there is space to work.
So there are pros and cons to train travel and the the right answer can change. But you need to be honest with yourself. If the commute is only bearable with a more comfy car you need to get a comfy car (and I say that as somebody who has identified heated seats as a hard requirement for my next vehicle because I only travel by car for trips of at least half an hr, mostly 1hr+).
If you truly wanted to prioritise the environment you’d get a local job and cycle or deal with the train commute and reach some kind of agreement with your employer about when you have to arrive/leave to count some of your commute as work. There is every chance you could get a bunch of focused work done as well as connect with people that way on the days you go to the office. One of my clients had a two hr train commute each way, he was in the office daily but he arrived at 10am and left at 4pm. He was absolutely working on the train judging by the number and length of emails I used to get during the two hrs he was on the train. So people do make these things work, too.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:49 AM on February 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
My world is like that. My work is supposed to be client based and if I work on the train it’s working hrs, if not any travel up to an hr each way is not work. So I can work on trains and the travel policy encourages me to do so…..my problem is that I am only productive on the train in the morning, not at night. I also find that by evening there is a greater chance of delays and such. Finally, the reason this works is because we’re allowed to travel 1st class, ie there is space to work.
So there are pros and cons to train travel and the the right answer can change. But you need to be honest with yourself. If the commute is only bearable with a more comfy car you need to get a comfy car (and I say that as somebody who has identified heated seats as a hard requirement for my next vehicle because I only travel by car for trips of at least half an hr, mostly 1hr+).
If you truly wanted to prioritise the environment you’d get a local job and cycle or deal with the train commute and reach some kind of agreement with your employer about when you have to arrive/leave to count some of your commute as work. There is every chance you could get a bunch of focused work done as well as connect with people that way on the days you go to the office. One of my clients had a two hr train commute each way, he was in the office daily but he arrived at 10am and left at 4pm. He was absolutely working on the train judging by the number and length of emails I used to get during the two hrs he was on the train. So people do make these things work, too.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:49 AM on February 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by ohio at 12:21 PM on February 27, 2023