Suggestions for where to visit in Europe this summer?
January 30, 2023 7:23 PM Subscribe
My family (husband, 17yo, 14 yo) and I will be in England the first week of June (through June 6) for a vacation, and in Slovenia the third week of June for a conference. It didn't make sense to fly back to Alaska, so we're just going to stay. We have about 11 days. Where should we visit in Europe between England (or in England) and Slovenia, that's accessible by rail?
We like archaeology and stuff like that (historical reenactment?); farmers markets, craft markets, and local food. Museums are also good. My husband knows some Spanish, but no other European languages (although I expect English will get us pretty far). The plan is to use EurRail to get where we need to go.
We'd prefer to spend a couple of days in a given location, rather than trying to see everything and be traveling all the time.
(Also, if folks have suggestions for the best airline/airlines to avoid for a one-way ticket from Ljubljana or thereabouts to London, that would also be very helpful.)
We like archaeology and stuff like that (historical reenactment?); farmers markets, craft markets, and local food. Museums are also good. My husband knows some Spanish, but no other European languages (although I expect English will get us pretty far). The plan is to use EurRail to get where we need to go.
We'd prefer to spend a couple of days in a given location, rather than trying to see everything and be traveling all the time.
(Also, if folks have suggestions for the best airline/airlines to avoid for a one-way ticket from Ljubljana or thereabouts to London, that would also be very helpful.)
Paris Paris Paris and also Paris.
posted by kerf at 8:07 PM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by kerf at 8:07 PM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
Bled's a nice daytrip from Ljublijana; very fairy-tale.
I'd consider heading into Croatia; Zagreb's an interesting (if a little generic) mid-size European city and has the museum of broken relationships if you want something a little off-beat. Then down to the coast, both Split and Dubrovnik have all of the archaeology and history you could want, plus the ocean if you're interested in that.
Note that EurRail passes are not always good value if you're not travelling all the time; check seat61.com for all of the ins and outs on that front.
posted by Superilla at 8:46 PM on January 30, 2023
I'd consider heading into Croatia; Zagreb's an interesting (if a little generic) mid-size European city and has the museum of broken relationships if you want something a little off-beat. Then down to the coast, both Split and Dubrovnik have all of the archaeology and history you could want, plus the ocean if you're interested in that.
Note that EurRail passes are not always good value if you're not travelling all the time; check seat61.com for all of the ins and outs on that front.
posted by Superilla at 8:46 PM on January 30, 2023
Definitely Vienna, I'd also plan a few days in Budapest for the food alone if you can afford the detour. Vienna to Ljubljana is a direct train, you can see so many high quality museums (don't miss the furniture one), historic reenactment happens in the street basically, and markets are also first class.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 10:13 PM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 10:13 PM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: We’re especially interested in recommendations for specific places to visit that are between London and Ljubljana. We have a good handle on the Slovenia end of the trip.
posted by leahwrenn at 10:20 PM on January 30, 2023
posted by leahwrenn at 10:20 PM on January 30, 2023
From the UK, take the overnight ferry to Rotterdam, train to Amsterdam (few days), train to Paris. That was a really memorable part of a trip I did as a similarly aged teen. (We then did the Eurostar back to London.)
Amsterdam- I loved the Van Gogh museum (and later, having watched the Doctor Who episode, really enjoyed that connection), the chocolate waffles, and the canals. We were there for a work thing, so we didn't have time for the Anne Frank house, which I wish we had done.
We were a bit hapless tourists in France, booked a creepy bed and breakfast that gave us bad vibes, bailed, found a hotel that we dubbed "the happiness hotel" (a la Muppets Caper) near Gar Du Nord that maybe had bed bugs, but we liked it! The the breakfast was in the basement, which still looked like French revolution times. Paris was another whirlwind we could have done more at. Spanish was more useful than English, we found more Spanish speakers than English speakers.
From there, maybe on to Vienna, any Mozart or Sound of Music fans for Salzburg?
posted by freethefeet at 12:07 AM on January 31, 2023
Amsterdam- I loved the Van Gogh museum (and later, having watched the Doctor Who episode, really enjoyed that connection), the chocolate waffles, and the canals. We were there for a work thing, so we didn't have time for the Anne Frank house, which I wish we had done.
We were a bit hapless tourists in France, booked a creepy bed and breakfast that gave us bad vibes, bailed, found a hotel that we dubbed "the happiness hotel" (a la Muppets Caper) near Gar Du Nord that maybe had bed bugs, but we liked it! The the breakfast was in the basement, which still looked like French revolution times. Paris was another whirlwind we could have done more at. Spanish was more useful than English, we found more Spanish speakers than English speakers.
From there, maybe on to Vienna, any Mozart or Sound of Music fans for Salzburg?
posted by freethefeet at 12:07 AM on January 31, 2023
I just looked at google maps to see what route they recommend, and you will naturally pass by some great places you could choose between:
Bruxelles is a very interesting city with a rich cultural history, specially I recommend the Comic Arts Museum and the traditional food. Because of the EU, it is very expensive, so this is not a place I would stay for long.
Aachen has been an important city since Roman times, and specially the cathedral and its surroundings are really beautiful. The big forests south of Aachen are worth a visit, too. Maybe you could rent bikes to go there? I don't know about that. There are a lot of WW2 sites in the area, if that has any interest. My dad was an army officer, so I've been dragged around to every single site, and forgot all about it.
Cologne has another great cathedral and Roman ruins, and the majestic Rhein river. Opposite the cathedral is an old beer hall where they serve very good local food. IThe art scene in Cologne is top-notch.
Heidelberg is a university town with a fascinating history and a very well preserved historic center. During the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it was a very important city, for knowledge, trade and power.
Munich is of course the capital of Bavaria, and full of great museums, a great open air market, lots of interesting neighborhoods to explore, beer gardens, great public transportation and generally a very nice atmosphere.
Salzburg is wonderful, too, if maybe a bit touristy. But tourists come there for a reason. It is very pretty and well-maintained, the food is hearty, and there is very easy acces to various hiking routes in the surrounding Alps.
Make sure to go by day through the Alps en route to Ljubljana.
These are important and very nice places on the direct route. I also agree that both Paris and Amsterdam are great cities, but I feel that Paris needs a whole week of its own (and that could be an option within your schedule).
Amsterdam is fine for a couple of days or three, and then maybe go from there to Munich and Salzburg before passing the Alps.
Enjoy your trip! June is a great time to go.
posted by mumimor at 1:11 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
Bruxelles is a very interesting city with a rich cultural history, specially I recommend the Comic Arts Museum and the traditional food. Because of the EU, it is very expensive, so this is not a place I would stay for long.
Aachen has been an important city since Roman times, and specially the cathedral and its surroundings are really beautiful. The big forests south of Aachen are worth a visit, too. Maybe you could rent bikes to go there? I don't know about that. There are a lot of WW2 sites in the area, if that has any interest. My dad was an army officer, so I've been dragged around to every single site, and forgot all about it.
Cologne has another great cathedral and Roman ruins, and the majestic Rhein river. Opposite the cathedral is an old beer hall where they serve very good local food. IThe art scene in Cologne is top-notch.
Heidelberg is a university town with a fascinating history and a very well preserved historic center. During the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it was a very important city, for knowledge, trade and power.
Munich is of course the capital of Bavaria, and full of great museums, a great open air market, lots of interesting neighborhoods to explore, beer gardens, great public transportation and generally a very nice atmosphere.
Salzburg is wonderful, too, if maybe a bit touristy. But tourists come there for a reason. It is very pretty and well-maintained, the food is hearty, and there is very easy acces to various hiking routes in the surrounding Alps.
Make sure to go by day through the Alps en route to Ljubljana.
These are important and very nice places on the direct route. I also agree that both Paris and Amsterdam are great cities, but I feel that Paris needs a whole week of its own (and that could be an option within your schedule).
Amsterdam is fine for a couple of days or three, and then maybe go from there to Munich and Salzburg before passing the Alps.
Enjoy your trip! June is a great time to go.
posted by mumimor at 1:11 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, in London, my absolute favourite museum we went to: https://oldoperatingtheatre.com/
posted by freethefeet at 2:47 AM on January 31, 2023
posted by freethefeet at 2:47 AM on January 31, 2023
seconding mumumor german tour
You will probably encounter a few medieval reenactments on the way, thought finding out where without a passing knowledge of german is a bit difficult
posted by thegirlwiththehat at 4:35 AM on January 31, 2023
You will probably encounter a few medieval reenactments on the way, thought finding out where without a passing knowledge of german is a bit difficult
posted by thegirlwiththehat at 4:35 AM on January 31, 2023
finding out where without a passing knowledge of german is a bit difficult
Well, I can help with that. There's a website for medieval stuff in German. And there is for instance an event in Wörth am Main, not far from Heidelberg, on the 16th of June (link goes directly to that event, but there are many more).
On the way from Heidelberg to Würth, you pass by Darmstadt, which is notable for its Jugendstil suburb, Mathildenhöhe. I feel it's worth a visit, but maybe it is a niche interest.
posted by mumimor at 5:00 AM on January 31, 2023
Well, I can help with that. There's a website for medieval stuff in German. And there is for instance an event in Wörth am Main, not far from Heidelberg, on the 16th of June (link goes directly to that event, but there are many more).
On the way from Heidelberg to Würth, you pass by Darmstadt, which is notable for its Jugendstil suburb, Mathildenhöhe. I feel it's worth a visit, but maybe it is a niche interest.
posted by mumimor at 5:00 AM on January 31, 2023
From Slovenia I'd head either head west to Venice and points further west, or north into the Austrian Alps and visit Hallstatt (a UNESCO world heritage area), Munich, and points further north. I once went on a trip that started in Venice, continued into Slovenia, north into Hallstatt and Munich, and then overnight train into Den Haag. So both directions are very doable routes by train.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:04 AM on January 31, 2023
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:04 AM on January 31, 2023
Switzerland/the alps are incredible, and there are a number of trails that are flat with insane mountain views everywhere you look - because of the system of cable cars, you don't need to be in great shape to get into some seriously amazing landscapes. It's also less expensive than I would have thought - this was back in 2019 I think, but my parents and I found a small 2br chalet in Murren for around $100 per night - restaurants are pricey, but there are so many rentals that accommodation really isn't that bad, and we used our kitchen.
+1 for Paris, it's worthy of the hype.
posted by coffeecat at 8:14 AM on January 31, 2023
+1 for Paris, it's worthy of the hype.
posted by coffeecat at 8:14 AM on January 31, 2023
The plan is to use EurRail to get where we need to go.
Apologies if you already know this, but Eurail is not actually a service provider, it's just a rail pass. Eurail itself does not operate any trains.
For a trip like this -- i.e. one that you're planning fairly far ahead of time, where your dates and destinations of travel will be fixed once you've identified where you're going, and where you are not making a huge amount of train journeys-- it is likely cheaper to buy the tickets point-to-point from the relevant operator instead of a Eurail pass.
(In many countries high-speed railway tickets are priced like an airline, where if you are willing to commit and buy early you can often get very inexpensive, albeit relatively inflexible, tickets.)
It requires a little bit more research, especially if you're going to be crossing lots of international borders, but you have to do some research with Eurail anyway -- Eurail passes often require a reservation, surcharge or both for high-speed or international trains so you'd have to check each route segment individually anyway.
posted by andrewesque at 8:40 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
Apologies if you already know this, but Eurail is not actually a service provider, it's just a rail pass. Eurail itself does not operate any trains.
For a trip like this -- i.e. one that you're planning fairly far ahead of time, where your dates and destinations of travel will be fixed once you've identified where you're going, and where you are not making a huge amount of train journeys-- it is likely cheaper to buy the tickets point-to-point from the relevant operator instead of a Eurail pass.
(In many countries high-speed railway tickets are priced like an airline, where if you are willing to commit and buy early you can often get very inexpensive, albeit relatively inflexible, tickets.)
It requires a little bit more research, especially if you're going to be crossing lots of international borders, but you have to do some research with Eurail anyway -- Eurail passes often require a reservation, surcharge or both for high-speed or international trains so you'd have to check each route segment individually anyway.
posted by andrewesque at 8:40 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you are inclined toward Dubrovnik, Croatia and other southern destinations, in early June the weather should be delightful. Later in the summer it's very hot, and most of Croatia is not air conditioned outside of tourist spots. Split has Roman ruins (a bit north of Dubrovnik) as does Pula, on the Istrian peninsula in far-north Croatia, where there is a Roman amphitheater. Pula is worth a visit in any season. It's on the Aegean Sea with fabulous food and an emphasis on seafood. Istria is territory that was battled over in WW2, and was passed back and forth between Italy and Yugoslavia, so Italian is commonly spoken. As a tourist area German, Italian and English are widely spoken.
Also worth a visit is Trieste, on the far eastern edge of Italy next to Slovenia, and like Slovenia and
Croatia, was part of the Hapsburg Empire until WW2. Many lovely buildings remain from that period. It's a deep-water port with amazing topography, literally stretching from the sea up the side of a mountain. The last time I was there I was flabbergasted at the amount of rail lines in Trieste, as I gazed down on the city from a perch way up the hillside, so definitely ample rail access.
You literally cannot have a bad meal in Trieste. It's also at a geographic, cultural. and national crossroad, and most residents speak Italian, English, Slovenian, and Croatian, if not German and Hungarian. Cuisine is equally diverse. For some reason, probably because it's in a far corner of Northern Italy, Trieste is not as visited by tourists as Venice, for example (OK, Venice does have other stunning attractions) but if you are going to Slovenia by train, Trieste is probably on your way. I'm guessing you're going to Ljubljana, and there should certainly be direct train travel between these cities. Have a wonderful time!!
posted by citygirl at 9:10 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also worth a visit is Trieste, on the far eastern edge of Italy next to Slovenia, and like Slovenia and
Croatia, was part of the Hapsburg Empire until WW2. Many lovely buildings remain from that period. It's a deep-water port with amazing topography, literally stretching from the sea up the side of a mountain. The last time I was there I was flabbergasted at the amount of rail lines in Trieste, as I gazed down on the city from a perch way up the hillside, so definitely ample rail access.
You literally cannot have a bad meal in Trieste. It's also at a geographic, cultural. and national crossroad, and most residents speak Italian, English, Slovenian, and Croatian, if not German and Hungarian. Cuisine is equally diverse. For some reason, probably because it's in a far corner of Northern Italy, Trieste is not as visited by tourists as Venice, for example (OK, Venice does have other stunning attractions) but if you are going to Slovenia by train, Trieste is probably on your way. I'm guessing you're going to Ljubljana, and there should certainly be direct train travel between these cities. Have a wonderful time!!
posted by citygirl at 9:10 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
Pretty much any city in Europe will be on the railway line. What might be useful is to consider how quickly some of those lines are or whether you can make a night train work for your family.
Eurostar to Paris will give you TGV options that will be comfortable and quick in getting through the miles between your chosen cities. There are some good overnight routes from cities like Cologne through to Austria. You can book couchettes for privacy and it might be a cool experience for your kids to sleep on a train. The Cologne train also has a spectacular first two hours going down the side of the Rhine, which it should be daylight for. Austria into Slovenia is very straightforward by train.
posted by biffa at 10:44 AM on January 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
Eurostar to Paris will give you TGV options that will be comfortable and quick in getting through the miles between your chosen cities. There are some good overnight routes from cities like Cologne through to Austria. You can book couchettes for privacy and it might be a cool experience for your kids to sleep on a train. The Cologne train also has a spectacular first two hours going down the side of the Rhine, which it should be daylight for. Austria into Slovenia is very straightforward by train.
posted by biffa at 10:44 AM on January 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
Paris-Strasbourg-Munich-Vienna-Budapest *chef kiss* If you are into it, the Wombats chain of hostels is very nice and with four people you could get your own bunk room with en suite bath. I find the vibe of nice hostels in Europe way cooler than most hotels, especially when traveling with teens, and they often have discounted and/or off-the-beaten-path ideas for things to do.
posted by SinAesthetic at 10:51 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by SinAesthetic at 10:51 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you're travelling by train from London, you want to refer to Seat 61 for information. It has what you need on tickets and logistics. I will put in a bid for Germany and Austria, specifically Munich, and then Salzburg if you want a city or Achensee if you want a lake/alpine experience. You can get to the Achensee by train from Munich via Jenbach. People speak English in German and Austrian cities, but less so in smaller places. You can get by with a basic phrasebook.
posted by plonkee at 12:53 PM on January 31, 2023
posted by plonkee at 12:53 PM on January 31, 2023
Trieste - Ljubljana is not a great train service. It only started operating in 2018 and there are only 3 trains per day. It takes 3-3.5 hours for the 45 miles. You can go faster by bus on that stage.
posted by biffa at 3:41 PM on January 31, 2023
posted by biffa at 3:41 PM on January 31, 2023
It requires a little bit more research, especially if you're going to be crossing lots of international borders, but you have to do some research with Eurail anyway -- Eurail passes often require a reservation, surcharge or both for high-speed or international trains so you'd have to check each route segment individually anyway.
Yep, Eurail takes research. It's a great deal for some forms of rail adventure but not others. Last time we were travelling inter-city in Europe with various stops, we calculated that buying individual tickets was cheaper. For a longer and more spread-out trip, Eurail would have been cheaper.
My perspective on Europe: in every country we always have a better time in smaller towns than big cities.
posted by ovvl at 4:03 PM on January 31, 2023
Yep, Eurail takes research. It's a great deal for some forms of rail adventure but not others. Last time we were travelling inter-city in Europe with various stops, we calculated that buying individual tickets was cheaper. For a longer and more spread-out trip, Eurail would have been cheaper.
My perspective on Europe: in every country we always have a better time in smaller towns than big cities.
posted by ovvl at 4:03 PM on January 31, 2023
I am going to make the case for a different route. If you google for directions from London to Ljubliana it is the alternative route suggested and comes in at just 1 hour more on the train. Its London-Paris-Turin-Bologna-Venice-Ljubliana. The intercities are largely excellent in France and Italy so you get around pretty quickly by train. Paris, Bologna and Venice give you top foodie locations as well as buckets of history, and Turin is no slouch either. All have excellent museums. All allow solid local day trips to cool places. This route also lets you pick from Lyon, Milan and Trieste if you prefer. This route should improve your chances of good weather but hopefully you'll be too early for a heatwave.
posted by biffa at 11:01 AM on February 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 11:01 AM on February 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by aniola at 7:46 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]