Does a New York apartment need an oven?

January 29, 2023 5:30 PM

We are prepping Mrs. Musofire's tiny (200 sq.ft.) NYC studio apartment for rental. We'd like to get rid of the crappy gas oven, but the apartment isn't wired for 220V, so electric is out. You are not our realtor, but if we replaced the gas oven with a cooktop and a microwave/toaster oven combo, would renters likely thing, "great, I never use an oven anyway," or "this is not a real apartment if it doesn't have an oven"?

(Our oven hasn't worked in years. We just use a very large toaster oven, a microwave, and the stovetop. About the only thing we can't cook is a turkey.)

posted by musofire to Home & Garden (59 answers total)

TBH I wouldn't rent if you didn't have an oven. I'm not even a huge baker, but I do so much with it compared to most other appliances.
posted by Carillon at 5:33 PM on January 29, 2023 [21 favorites]

I bake a lot and would be fine renting a place with a nice, large toaster oven. As it is now, even with a large oven in my house, I prefer to use my countertop oven as much as possible.
posted by scantee at 5:40 PM on January 29, 2023 [7 favorites]

If I were living in 200ft^2 in NYC I would prefer to not have a full size gas oven, especially with what we are learning about how bad they are for indoor air safety.

And I am someone who cooks 2 meals a day and uses oven with some frequency. I also know a good toaster oven and microwave can get me 90% there, and in that small space, the saved space is worth a lot.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:52 PM on January 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

At 200 sq ft I think most renters in your target demographic would be okay without a full size stove and oven. I bake a lot and if I were in this situation I’d be more than happy to consider an apartment with a nice countertop oven (e.g. one of the Breville models) as it shows some consideration rather than just throwing whatever cheapo Landlord Special was available that day out there.
posted by btfreek at 5:52 PM on January 29, 2023 [21 favorites]

I've turned down otherwise great places that didn't have an oven and, barring being in a situation where I didn't have any other options, would never rent a place without an oven (and 200 sq ft doesn't really give you enough counter space for a decently sized toaster oven). Conversely, I know people here in NYC who have lived happily without an oven for years.

It'll narrow your pool and you may need to lower your asking price a little as a result, but I don't think it's the worst idea to remove it.
posted by snaw at 5:55 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

200 sq ft doesn't really give you enough counter space for a decently sized toaster oven

This is a good point - I think more important than whether you have an oven or not (which not everyone needs) is how functional the kitchen space is overall. If you ditch the oven and add in its place counter space + storage, that is likely a worthy trade for many people considering a small studio. But if ditching the oven means whatever little counter space there is needs to house a stovetop + microwave/toaster, that might be annoying.
posted by coffeecat at 6:01 PM on January 29, 2023 [13 favorites]

Yes, an oven is a necessity. I wouldn’t rent an apartment without one, and I’m a native New Yorker if it matters.
posted by Champagne Supernova at 6:04 PM on January 29, 2023 [7 favorites]

I’ve been making do without an oven for an embarrassing period of time and I know that if I’m going to sublet at any point I’ll need to replace it.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:06 PM on January 29, 2023

In any kind of normal apartment, no, but I think a person willing to rent a 200 sq ft apartment is likely not planning to do much cooking. As mentioned above, design it thoughtfully so as to recover maximum workspace for the tenant.
posted by praemunire at 6:07 PM on January 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

Yes, you need one of the skinny little ovens to match, presumably, the skinny little refrigerator you only see in NYC apartments. It makes all the difference between feeling like it's a place you can stay awhile, or only briefly. Even non cooks appreciate ovens to reheat pizza or, heck, even to store things when not cooking. To not get one, in my estimation would be a false economy.

It's also worth saying that I've seen some amazing small apartments in NYC. If you use the space well, going vertical rather than horizontal with shelves, hooks, mirrors and the like you could undoubtedly attract a long-term renter thrilled to live alone in their tiny castle.
posted by Violet Blue at 6:08 PM on January 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

If you end up doing this, one thing to keep in mind is to make sure you can get the gas line safely capped by a licensed plumber before, or at the same time as, you have the oven removed. In other words, if you’re just going to find some movers or a Junkluggers-type outfit to haul it away, they likely won’t touch the gas (nor should they).
posted by staggernation at 6:09 PM on January 29, 2023 [11 favorites]

Native New Yorker, have lived in some seriously janky apartments, including one with a shower in the kitchen, and no way in hell would I rent an apartment with no oven. Like, the kind of no way in hell where I take one step into the apartment, see there’s no oven, and turn around and walk right out. Don’t know if I’m necessarily representative, but that would be my reaction.
posted by holborne at 6:26 PM on January 29, 2023 [11 favorites]

If it’s to be someone’s home for a year or more, and you’re charging market rent, yes, it needs an oven. If you’re using it more like an air bnb, or expecting your tenant to do so, no oven needed.
posted by kapers at 6:47 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

I lived in a 190 sqft apartment and I say no oven. I had a microwave and an instant pot and it was fine. I’d rather have a countertop oven I can move / plug in somewhere else as needed and have a big cabinet where the oven was.
posted by momus_window at 6:57 PM on January 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

I live in NYC, I barely ever bake, but an apartment without an oven would not seem "adult" to me. Though perhaps people who are going to rent a 200 square foot studio are in a stage of their life or in circumstances where that factor would not be as important as it would be to me.
posted by virve at 7:09 PM on January 29, 2023

New yorker here- induction burner+Brevile toaster oven+Microwave stack would be ideal in a 200 Square foot studio i think! plus you could have extra counter space that way!

if the apt is 200 sq foot you can absolutely roast and bake for 1 or 2 ppl in the brevile. This is a studio apt ppl are not expecting a chefs stove I would pitch it as modern and remind folks you're saving them from the terrible health effects of the gas
posted by wowenthusiast at 7:40 PM on January 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

Since there doesn’t seem to be a clear consensus, I would just add that the listing needs to be totally transparent about this if you decide to remove the oven. Potential renters can decide for themselves whether it matters so don’t use realtor double-talk—just clearly say there is no full-size oven, but there are xyz appliances.
posted by kapers at 7:49 PM on January 29, 2023 [9 favorites]

While I could see situations where I might conceivably live without an oven if I had to live small and were given a large Breville toaster oven + microwave and a stovetop as my cooking options, I still think it's a terrible idea. If I saw an apartment for rent that had that setup - even high end - and didn't have an oven, and it wasn't in a high rise where every unit was set up the same way, my immediate thought would be that the landlord was cutting serious corners, who knows what else could be missing that I wasn't seeing, and the unit might be illegal.
posted by Mchelly at 7:51 PM on January 29, 2023 [18 favorites]

It's more about what it means that the landlord doesn't provide an oven. I wouldn't consider a place without one.
posted by unknowncommand at 7:53 PM on January 29, 2023 [10 favorites]

Also I agree as a longtime NYC renter I would assume the apartment was illegal or that the landlord was neglecting to repair something (dangerous and gas-related) and I wouldn’t look twice at such a listing.
posted by kapers at 7:55 PM on January 29, 2023 [10 favorites]

Also.. make sure the electrical load is ok for fridge + appliances.
My last unit would blow if you tried to use toaster and microwave at the same time.
posted by calgirl at 7:59 PM on January 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

As this thread indicates, different people have different standards. If I were a solo renter, I'd definitely consider a place without an oven. My wife, on the other hand, probably wouldn't.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:00 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

I have a 260 square foot house. I could put an oven in but why? all you need an oven for is to cook a turkey. But no oven is the number one complaint I get! I have a high turnover. And I think people move in because they are desperate. then maybe they realize no oven is a deal breaker so they move out? anyway I'm turning it into an office space rental. Mostly because people find it too small after living there for a couple months. I don't understand that, I could live there fine.
posted by memoryindustries at 8:20 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

I think there are two different ways to look at this question.

The first one is: "is it possible to find someone in New York who would consider renting an apartment that didn't have an oven." And - yes, as we've seen in this thread, it's possible. I'm seeing about a 50-50 split between "yeah, I'd consider it" and "hell no".

The SECOND way to look at this question, however, is: "do I want to automatically turn off 50% of my potential renters by getting rid of an oven." And....that's a very, very different question. Because yes, sure, there are people who don't cook and don't bake - but those people could be equally happy in an apartment WITH an oven or WITHOUT one. By contrast, the people who DO cook would NOT be happy in an apartment without an oven.

So....maybe a New York apartment doesn't need an oven. But what New York landlord would want to turn off 50% of all potential renters by not HAVING an oven?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:56 PM on January 29, 2023 [11 favorites]

those people could be equally happy in an apartment WITH an oven or WITHOUT one.

Well...maybe. In a 200 sq ft apartment, storage space is at a super-premium. An oven takes up a fair amount of space.
posted by praemunire at 9:03 PM on January 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

I could do no oven but I wouldn’t do no dishwasher.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:17 PM on January 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

I suspect much depends on where, specifically, within NYC the apartment is located.
posted by aramaic at 9:17 PM on January 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

To clarify my point some:

In a 200 sq ft apartment, storage space is at a super-premium.

Potential renters who prioritize storage space probably wouldn't be considering a 200 sq foot apartment anyway, precisely because it's small. So we can write them off anyway.

That leaves potential renters who do cook (group a) and potential renters who don't cook (group b). If you have an oven, you could rent to people in EITHER group a or group b - the people in group b can simply not use the oven. But if you don't have an oven, only group b would be happy with your space - the people in group a wouldn't consider it at all.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:27 PM on January 29, 2023

Whether or not this would be helpful depends on the kitchen's layout, but have you thought about a wall oven + cook top? They come in 24".
posted by kate4914 at 9:40 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

Potential renters who prioritize storage space probably wouldn't be considering a 200 sq foot apartment anyway, precisely because it's small. So we can write them off anyway.

Gotta disagree. In a small NYC apartment, having adequate storage space becomes one of the top priorities.

You will reduce the number of interested applicants if you don't have an oven. But, to be a bit crass, I don't think you'll have to reduce the price. Most of the people who want the place, even sans oven, won't see the lack of oven as a big loss, so they likely won't see it as something that should entitle them to a discount. (Unless they're inveterate hagglers.) And demand for housing in NYC is extremely high. I think you won't have a problem renting this place even without the oven.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:04 PM on January 29, 2023 [5 favorites]

At 22, this scenario was fine but, at this point, I would not rent a place without an oven. As others have said, I have walked right in and out of places without them. I totally concur that, should you decide against the oven, you make it extremely clear in the listing. I was very suspicious of the landlord for not having been transparent and also for expecting people to fall for the bullshit (and pay an extra expensive price simply due to the apartment's location.) If you are going to charge slightly less than the going rate, then not having one is less of an issue. But eating out keeps getting more and more exorbitant so more people are cooking, too.

In any case, you've heard a lot of compelling arguments each way! Good luck in choosing what's best. Perhaps looking at some recent NYC apartment tours on YouTube or posting this to an Apartment Therapy messageboard or Facebook page would get even more opinions and ideas!
posted by smorgasbord at 10:07 PM on January 29, 2023

When I was 22 or so, I rented a fantastic studio that had a full sized bathroom, full sized kitchen sink and counter, fridge, two burner cooktop, and toaster oven. It was in a great location and it was so great to live on my own. There are plenty of folks who’d go for this.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:27 PM on January 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

Air fryers are tiny ovens, kinda! I would rent this w/o an oven given what’s possible in an air fryer.
posted by tristeza at 10:28 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

I own a 660 sq ft apartment that I rent out that has a 2 burner induction cooktop, full-size microwave, and the largest Breville SmartOven available. I have yet to have a tenant complain (for what it's worth, it also has a full-size refrigerator and an adorable 18" Bosch dishwasher).

I love to cook and also use a Breville convection countertop oven almost exclusively for my family of 2 even though I live in a largish (1700 sq ft) house. I have no need for my regular oven at all and would much rather have the extra cabinet space.
posted by mezzanayne at 11:03 PM on January 29, 2023 [4 favorites]

Our first apartment was about 200 square feet had two burners and a toaster oven. I've made just about everything in that kitchen. I don't like turkey, but other big birds have been cooked in a huge cast iron roasting pot. I still do that, sometimes. It was that way because I'm old, and in the very olden days, homes in slums didn't have ovens. We couldn't have had a full oven if we wanted to, because there was no space for it.
This was here in Denmark. My first apartment in NYC was a small one bedroom, and had a huge old gas stove. I felt it was disgusting -- it was impossible to remove generations' worth of filth -- and also a waste of space. It was one of those things that felt like a culture shock to me.

Anyway, I'd certainly prefer a kitchen with more counter-space, rather than a full stove, if my apartment was that small.
FWIW, I'm a bit surprised at how many are so adamant about having an oven, because I feel more and more people are just using their air fryers and instant pots for everything. I'm not part of that, my air-fryer is in a box in a storage room, and I never bought an instant pot because I love my stovetop pressure cooker. But it does seem to be a strong trend. Maybe in ten or twenty years, a small apartment with a full gas stove will be as rare and antiquated as one without a stove is today.

If your new kitchen design is nice and easy to maintain, and you are honest about your choices, I think it could be a positive change. But do check if you can have the electrical load you need.
posted by mumimor at 2:52 AM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

I had mezzanayne’s exact setup in a 300-square-foot apartment (minus dishwasher) in Hong Kong and it was indeed perfect - but my two-burner induction cooktop wasn’t a built-in so it could be moved out of the way when needed, the electricity was 220V, and the power simply never went out in the eight years I lived there, even in the worst weather. If there’s a way you can provide really nice electric appliances that work and somehow manage the reliability issue well for them (might tenants have exceptionally easy access to the fusebox?), that setup could work well for a larger group of people.
posted by mdonley at 2:55 AM on January 30, 2023

One last comment on the storage-space-vs-oven issue:

Non-cooks using their ovens as extra storage space is so common a thing that it has become a jokey reference in sitcoms and in the introductions for how-to-cook cookbooks. An apartment with an oven could suit both cooks and non-cooks - but an apartment without an oven could only suit non-cooks.

Seconding the suggestion that if you decide to forgo the oven, that you specifically mention that in any ad you place.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:41 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

an apartment without an oven could only suit non-cooks

Well, non-oven-using cooks, anyway - lots of non-European cuisines don't rely on ovens. It's not uncommon for an apartment in China, e.g., to not have an oven.

But yeah, as a white US-ian urbanite I do find a kitchen without an oven to be A Bad Sign (not least because the answer to "does it have an oven?" is highly correlated with "is this a legal apartment?"). I recently noticed when an adorable 600sqft 1-bed for sale in a highly desirable location took a long time to sell and sold for under asking - unheard of in this neighborhood. When I looked at the listing more closely I realized it didn't have an oven.
posted by mskyle at 4:29 AM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Given that you're going to replace the existing oven with something anyway, I think you should get a replacement oven. It doesn't look like tenants would reject an apartment solely because it has an oven. But some tenants will reject an apartment solely because it doesn't have an oven.

I don't think this is about the extent to which someone will actually use the oven. I think this is about what the presence of an oven signifies about the apartment.
posted by plonkee at 4:49 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

I wouldn’t rent it myself, but plenty of people would. I would put it in the ad so as not to waste time for people for whom it’s a dealbreaker, and go ahead.
posted by LizardBreath at 5:01 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

Best answer: Actual New York City relevant data point: my former downstairs neighbor removed the oven from his 350 sq ft apartment. When he moved out and listed it for sale and for rent (he was open to either), it sat on the market for 6 months. He put an oven back in, it rented in about a week. This was 2018.
posted by minervous at 5:56 AM on January 30, 2023 [9 favorites]

I lived in NYC without using my oven for many years. In fact, I actually asked a broker (realtor) once if there were apartments that didn't have kitchens, since I really never used mine and wanted the space for other things. imo there are plenty of NYC renters who don't cook (small apartment kitchens tend to be tiny and crappy anyway) and subsist mostly on quick pasta meals or takeout. I feel like you could find plenty of renters who'd be ok with your plan.
posted by whitelily at 6:42 AM on January 30, 2023

I think this is very much of an 'it depends' question. If the apartment is in a business district and is more likely than not to be used as a pied-a-terre, then it's unlikely that an oven will be a deal-breaker. If it's in a more residential district, I think you could get away with it provided that there's enough counter space in the kitchen to accommodate the alternative appliances. Additionally, you could also offer potential renters a sweetener of an Instant Pot (the one that comes with the air fryer lid) as well as the toaster oven. As others have said, don't skimp on quality.
posted by essexjan at 7:00 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Where is the apartment located and how much are you hoping to charge for it? If the apartment is located in a highly desirable area of Manhattan I think there’s a somewhat evergreen group of people who won’t care about going without an oven in exchange for living in the heart of the city. If the apartment is in the outer boroughs, far from the train, >3rd floor walk up etc I’d anticipate that the apartment would need to be priced below median studio rent in the area to make up for the amount of people who will be turned off by the lack of an oven.
posted by fox problems at 7:43 AM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

How to Use Your Air Fryer (With Recipes!) | Melissa Clark | NYT Cooking
posted by mumimor at 9:25 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

You have the space the oven used to occupy for a good toaster oven/ microwave,m with space left over for storage. In 200 sq ft, that seems like a good deal. Make sure the electrical circuits can handle the use.
posted by theora55 at 9:39 AM on January 30, 2023

Your question reminds me of this one where the OP was weighing options between dishwasher vs wall oven. Similar results from the comments as you're seeing here. But you might find some additional ideas there.

My opinion - I like my oven, but in a 200 square foot apartment, I'd be open to a burner and toaster oven option. (When I lived in 350 square feet, I don't know if I ever used my oven. But I did use my toaster oven all the time.) I think many younger renters will be fine with this, but older people may have a harder time looking beyond the expected traditional setup. You may have to work harder to 'sell it' as a positive thing. If they see it and just feel like you cheaped out, they'll run, but if they can see that you've given them great appliances with respect for their space, they'll respect that.
posted by hydra77 at 9:53 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Countertop dishwashers are an actual thing.
posted by porpoise at 10:51 AM on January 30, 2023

I have many friends who lived in studio apartments with 2 burner stovetops and no oven when they were in their early 20s in major coastal cities and working jobs that provided free food as a benefit. Almost all of them moved on to larger, more “standard” apartments by the time they were in their late 20s.

I’m team “you can definitely find a renter”, but do you want to attract mostly young, transient renters? I think if you keep the oven, you’ll have less tenant turnover, which is always a positive.
posted by A Blue Moon at 11:28 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

IMO some of this depends on what sorts of tenants you think you're likely to have. This, in turn, will be influenced by location. If it's in the vicinity of Columbia and you think your tenant is likely to be an undergraduate--in which case it's likely to be a new tenant every year--cooking in an oven is unlikely to be a priority. If, on the other hand, you think you're more likely to have a more mature tenant for multiple years, it may look sketchy (and student-ish) to not have a range with an oven. Needless to say, it would have to be a tenant with little interest in doing much cooking, but there are plenty of those around. For me, living in a small studio with two electric burners and no proper range would feel a bit too much like living in an SRO with a hot plate.

What would be your motivation for not having a range with burners and an oven? Foregoing the expense of purchasing and installing a new one? Creating extra space in the apartment? Eliminating use of natural gas? Avoiding potential dangers of using a gas-burning range? Something else? What positive would you, as the owner, get out of not having a 20-inch gas range in the apartment?
posted by slkinsey at 12:25 PM on January 30, 2023

I lived in a studio in Manhattan without an oven and it was zero issue to me because I don’t cook. There are many people in NYC that don’t cook either.
posted by lovelygirl at 1:53 PM on January 30, 2023

I will just reiterate the comments to make sure that the electrical load can handle a toaster oven. Last year my friend returned the much touted Breville because it would blow the breaker in her unit, even when used alone.
posted by fies at 2:25 PM on January 30, 2023

if they can see that you've given them great appliances with respect for their space, they'll respect that.

My pro- comments are definitely based on the assumptions of a nice layout and good-quality "substitute" appliances. It definitely could just seem sad otherwise, rather than intentional.
posted by praemunire at 5:23 PM on January 30, 2023

I'm on team "this is not a real apartment if it doesn't have an oven" with a side dish of "what other sketchy shit is the landlord trying to pull--is this place unlicensed or in some marginal utility configuration that won't support an oven?"

Choosing to use your oven for storage because you don't cook is a whole 'nother thing than the landlord not providing what is considered an essential standard basic kitchen setup in the US. Like, you don't provide a really big cooler and promise an endless supply of dry ice instead of a refrigerator in a legit apartment, even if it could technically "work."
posted by desuetude at 10:08 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

I've lived in NYC for mostly my entire adult life, 35+ years. If I saw a place without an oven I would just be thinking "Oh, they're doing that now", not what other shortcuts are being made. I had this feeling for the first time a long time ago when apartment hunting and all the newly built apartments I looked at had tiny refrigerators. Standards change according to use.

I can imagine off the top of my head several people I know who wouldn't bat an eye at the lack of oven. Even me, actually. I cook a lot. At one point I even had a home based dessert business, and I would consider an apt. without an oven because in the five years I've lived with the oven in my place here in Brooklyn I can count on one hand how many times I've used it. I have used a toaster oven I pull out of the cabinet about once a month, and an air fryer that I use several times a week, Even this freestanding roaster unit thing I bought for an event a long time ago I've used once or twice. This is because I store things in the oven and it's easier to use the other appliances than unload the oven. I'm that lazy, yes.

I think if you have good and easy storage options for the Breville, meaning it's super easy to pull out and put away and not an onerous mission of moving things about to be able to use it, a lot of people would be satisfied with that. A lot of New Yorkers don't cook at all. Sure, maybe half the people wouldn't consider renting the place, but if you're in a desirable area that really doesn't matter. You may also inadvertently be selecting for people who are never home as well, meaning less wear and tear on the place.

On the other hand, swapping out a gas range is relatively inexpensive and possibly easier than working out an alternative.
posted by newpotato at 2:22 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

The problem here is that if you swap out the gas range, there are now laws in NYC that require you to upgrade your electrical wiring to allow for an electric stove, which not all buildings can support yet (they don't get enough power from the grid entering the building overall to allow apartments to upgrade). It's a stupid law because it effectively prevents some people from ever changing their gas range situation. But it's the law. (Source: my own exciting NYC kitchen repair.)

I have lived in an apartment of this size, but not in NYC. I cook a lot (and did in that apartment, which has a half-size oven). I would consider living in an NYC apartment of that size without an oven as long as it had a good Breville. People who say "oh, but you can store things in an oven"—I don't believe you have lived in an apartment that small. 100% better to have real dedicated storage that doesn't take up the same oven space. I also think that for every person who won't consider a place without an oven, there's someone who will think it's a bonus. And if you're in an area that's in demand, you will have no problem finding the latter kind of tenant. I have seen plenty of apartments that don't have ovens or full size cooktops. They aren't the norm, but they aren't as weird as some people here seem to think.
posted by branca at 4:45 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

+1 to "oven storage isn't the same as an actual cabinet" - there's less storage in an oven than in the same sized-cabinet because of....oven parts... and the oven can be kinda gross, especially in NYC apartments.

I also think there's a big difference between US apartment standards/expectations and NYC apartment standards/expectations and that is reflected in many of these answers. For example, in most of the US, it is standard and expected to have your own W/D, whereas in NYC that is a rare luxury.

And as branca pointed out, it may not be that simple for the OP to just put in a new oven because of the new gas laws. So the choice may not be new oven versus no oven. It may be crappy old oven versus no oven.
posted by whitelily at 5:36 AM on January 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

I just watched this video from the tiny house channel, and I feel the design ideas in it could be useful for anyone with a small home, not just tiny houses.
posted by mumimor at 11:21 AM on February 1, 2023

Sorry, I'm very late in seeing this question, but I thought the answers I got regarding the necessity of a real oven in our tiny apartment in Philadelphia might be quite relevant for your thinking here.
posted by ClaireBear at 7:58 PM on February 8, 2023