PhD, maybe?

January 10, 2023 2:48 PM

I work at a university, and have the opportunity to pursue a grad program for my own enjoyment and learning, with 2/3rds covered by my job. Should I do a PhD?

I've already used the tuition waiver to take several courses that are both academic and relevant to my career; they add up to a micro-certificate but there is no grad program or certificate at my university I'm interested in.

A couple of years ago, I finished a part-time humanities MA program at another university, and it was a wonderful, often challenging, but ultimately positive experience I pursued purely for my own learning and growth. It's expanded my mind and developed my critical thinking. While doing this, I was in a very stressful 4 day/week job, which was a big emotional and mental strain, and a really triggering experience.

Now, I am in a much less stressful 5-day/week job, with a similar tuition waiver. I work significantly less and am rarely stressed. I have been volunteering a lot, and exploring my hobbies, and have been missing my time at grad school (minus the stress). With the tuition waiver, I can pursue a part-time PhD at my old department (or any other university with part-time program) for 1/3rd of the price. I really miss grad courses, but I am wavering on whether I should apply. I can't imagine myself writing a dissertation, and given that comps in my field are 200-250 books, that is also a massive task (although there isn't a time limit on comps if you're part-time). My other concerns are wasting faculty time, if I have a new supervisor (my old supervisor and now friend is still in the Department) and don't end up completing a dissertation - as well as my own, when I don't complete the program. However, I can spend the next 3 years of my life taking grad-level courses and learning, and developing a project or skills that I couldn't have imagined without the program, which is what happened during my MA. I won't be asked to pay back the tuition waiver funds if I don't graduate.

Another way to go about it would be to apply for a professional part-time MA in another field. I'm interested in pursuing policy analysis, and it would be great to find an in-person part-time program in humanities or the social sciences that's mixed-methods, and can set me up for developing my career. I've also seen a very successful researcher in another field who did their PhD part time in their 40s after a 20-year career. They're a huge success as an academic now, and this approach to one's career also makes sense to me.

I have no interest in an academic career, but I do want to advance my overall career and learn. I have many friends who did PhDs full-time, and it was an exhausting, grinding process I've seen from the outside. I've heard many horror stories, and full-time liberal arts student stipends are below meagre. Working full-time and doing school part-time has been a real economic privilege, and has helped me get my current job. I have one friend in the same position as me, and they're happily pursuing a PhD part-time. They say that I can do the same and drop out if I don't like it.

What do you think? Have you done a part-time MA/PhD? Please tell me about your academic career turns and curves. I am single, well-compensated, have a stable residence and a feline dependent.

posted by elsmith to Education (26 answers total)

It sounds to me like you have every reason to take the program, and no negative reason for not taking advantage of this opportunity. If you had mentioned not having the energy, desire, or that you had other interests you would like to pursue, such as a relationship or otherwise, there might be reason not to pursue this PhD... but as it stands, you sound like you would enjoy the challenge and there are no financial setbacks to dropping the program should you change your mind.
I say go for it!
posted by itsflyable at 3:14 PM on January 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

If I had that opportunity, I'd sure take it!
posted by jgirl at 3:24 PM on January 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

What country are you in?

Have you asked your previous advisor what they think?
posted by hoyland at 3:25 PM on January 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

My goodness, I’d be thrilled to have an opportunity like this. Do it!
posted by sevensnowflakes at 3:26 PM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

I hate the entire Ph.D system, but... you have a pretty reasonable opportunity here. I'd suggest a program with a "consolation master's" setup, so that if you decide comps or the dissertation are not for you, you still get some letters to put after your name.
posted by humbug at 3:26 PM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]

I have no interest in an academic career, but I do want to advance my overall career and learn.

I'm confused why you wouldn't just continue to take courses part-time, in subjects you find interesting or relevant to career? Like, the only reason (and I mean only) to get a PhD is to have an academic career. Outside of some US government jobs that do reward having a PhD, there is really no benefit - unless your job has explicitly promised this would result in a major raise, I would just take classes and/or find other ways to learn independently.

You mention coursework, so I assume you are in the US or Canada (since UK + much of Europe the PhD is just about the dissertation) - in that case, the PhD for full-time students is usually around 6-8 years - my PhD took 8, and if I was working a full-time job, it's frankly hard to imagine it taking less than 20 years.

I've also seen a very successful researcher in another field who did their PhD part time in their 40s after a 20-year career. They're a huge success as an academic now, and this approach to one's career also makes sense to me.

When did they graduate though? This does not sound like a viable trajectory currently, at least not in any country or field I'm familiar with.
posted by coffeecat at 3:30 PM on January 10, 2023 [20 favorites]

I work significantly less and am rarely stressed

If you want to change that, then certainly, doctoral study is for you.

I'd strongly advise against it; my usual advice is that it is a specific research qualification which is useful for people who want to go into the small set of jobs where doctorates are compulsory—for almost everyone else it's not a necessary career step, and most people find 'learning' is not what the process is about.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:46 PM on January 10, 2023 [15 favorites]

There are two traditional reasons not to pursue a Ph.D.: lack of funding and poor career prospects. Neither apply to you. That’s not to say you should definitely do it. There are other problems, too, such as the crushing workload and pressure to publish, but the reason those are so difficult is because of how they relate to the two big reasons. With minimal income, you’re incentivized to get through the program quickly, which means a bigger workload, and with meager chances of landing a tenure-track job, you need publications to stand out. But you don’t have those pressures. Yours is one of the least stressful grad school situations I could imagine. It’ll still be somewhat stressful, but your classmates will have it worse.

Frame this differently: You want to be a rock star. You’ve been offered a record contract that includes unlimited studio time. But you’re not sure whether to start recording because you aren’t sure whether you’ll want to go on tour after the record is released. Maybe you will want to tour, or maybe your label won’t ask you to tour, who knows? Should you record some songs anyway? Yes, of course.
posted by kevinbelt at 3:48 PM on January 10, 2023 [4 favorites]

I'm with CoffeeCat. If you want to take interesting classes but don't want to write a dissertation, you should not pursue a PhD, you should simply take the classes. Your policy-oriented master's plan sounds good, but you could also take classes towards a master's degree in another humanities subject.
posted by yarntheory at 4:27 PM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]

My suspicion is that as you pursue this, you may find it difficult to find an advisor who will take you on because of the concern that you're part time and won't graduate. Talk to your old advisor and other mentors about whether anyone has done something like this in your old department lately / which programs might be a fit. Exactly how the financials work for departments probably differs, there may be some places where being willing to pay full freight as a nominal PhD student would be desirable depending on how the institution handles funding.

I also think it makes a difference if your MA was online and if this program will be online / low-residency. That wouldn't work for me, but if you've already been successful with online learning, it's not a deal-breaker.
posted by momus_window at 4:30 PM on January 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

Now, I am in a much less stressful 5-day/week job, with a similar tuition waiver.

Just want to jump in and suggest that if you haven't already, make sure you confirm you can use this for a doctorate. Most tuition waivers are designed to comply with IRS regulations, and as a result can't be used to fund a graduate degree that isn't directly relevant to your current job. Institutions can create work-arounds to this, but most don't.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 4:41 PM on January 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

The policy or related master's seems a much better choice to me though of course only you and your confidantes know your exact circumstances.

First, the only major new skill you'll pick up in a phd program after the MA (outside of stem programs anyhoo) is that of completing a large academic project.

Second, paying only 1/3 the sticker price of a phd program is no deal at all. You should pay $0 for a phd program, nothing but the opportunity cost of your time. OTOH, paying only 1/3 for a professional policy program could be a screaming deal.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:41 PM on January 10, 2023 [21 favorites]

As i understand it, a lot of programs aren't going to want a part-time PhD student - maybe it's different for a non-humanities/non-STEM business-oriented program, but a lot of places won't even let their regular students take a semester with a part-time course load. Many programs really want people to start and finish within six-ish years, not simply be in the program indefinitely, even if they are paying their own way. If you are a part-time student with an unclear trajectory, you are taking up the department's time and resources (and probably goofing up their placement/completion statistics).

I'm not saying that no one would admit a part-time student into a serious program, but it's not something I've heard a lot about.
posted by Frowner at 4:41 PM on January 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

I worked full time and pursued my PhD at the same institution, because of a similar tuition benefit, although mine was completely covered. It took me 5 years. After I completed my course work and passed the qualifying exams, I got a new job at a consulting firm while writing my dissertation. In short, while the prior 4 years had been manageable, the last one was the worst year of my life.

I stayed in that job for about a year and then moved to another similar company, and never worked in academia. I'm so glad to have my PhD, despite the difficult year, because I love what I do now and make more money than I would in academia.

It sounds like you are excited to do this and have a reasonable set up with your current job and tuition benefit. I say go for it!
posted by stripesandplaid at 5:09 PM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]

This may be one of those things that is very discipline specific. Like momus_window, my initial thought was that nobody is going to want to advise a student under these circumstances. But that could actually vary by field. I do know someone in CS who completed a PhD part time with a goal of continuing in the adjunct professor role he was already in, and that plan worked out fine for him. I know someone else who started an EdD part-time (and most such degrees are probably part time?), although personal life intervened in her case to prevent finishing.

I did complete a masters degree part time, though, while holding down a part-time job. It was a lot of work and yet I wouldn't have done it any other way. In a way it was like an insurance policy: I had school to focus on when work was trying, and vice versa. But it would not have been sustainable for more than the three years I spent at it, partly because I had a baby during those years too. I did have to drop to a slightly less demanding job with fewer hours in the final year of the program, but was able to return to full time without a lot of fuss after graduation. Could I do it all again with the energy level I have today... maybe not.
posted by eirias at 6:01 PM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

I did two masters degree while I was working at universities, in part because they were free with the tuition waiver. I think part-time graduate work is quite possible while working full-time.

Also, while you may not want an academic career, you are currently working at a university. If you plan to continue working at colleges and universities, even in a non-academic postion, having a PhD would be a career advantage.
posted by hworth at 6:35 PM on January 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

I just did this, with almost the exact same setup and thinking (mine only cost me about $20/class + books for most of the program). It took 7 years, though I could have finished a year faster had I not had a boatload of things happen in the last year. Overall, it was a very good experience and I'm glad I did it. I enjoyed learning, I met some amazing people across campus, and by the time I got to my dissertation I had found a topic that I was excited to research.

That said, one big higher ed caveat: There's often a divide between staff and faculty, which becomes even more obvious in going through a grad program on the slow track. Other students who are full time and more deeply immersed in the program are going to have more time to potentially do research, submit articles, and present at conferences. For that reason, you may notice that unlike your program colleagues you are not setting yourself up for academic-track career opportunities. While it sounds like you don't have an intention to look for faculty positions afterwards, being in a staff position can start to feel a bit different as you become both more aware that you're closing some of the divide in education while not closing the divide in attitude with the faculty around you.

Second, and perhaps less important for you, the PhD didn't really open doors in higher ed and I have not found the much vaunted private sector to pay all that much better. I suspect that I need to hone my sales pitch for my knowledge and expertise (I suspect that there's some gender bias happening too). While you may not be looking to change careers now, consider if you'll feel the same in 6-7 years, having invested all that time and energy.

But those two things aside, it's a great use of a tuition discount!
posted by past unusual at 6:56 PM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]

Sure. But, don't underestimate the amount of time and effort it will take. A PhD is more than a full time job. (Which isn't to say it's impossible. It will be hard. But, if you're into hard things, go for it.)
posted by eotvos at 7:32 PM on January 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

Doing an MA is a very different experience from doing a PhD. I loved my MA in Gender Studies and it was literally a life changing experience, I loved it so much that I went on to do a PhD and it was lonely, isolating, frustrating and not at all what I expected. As others said, a PhD is a qualification in doing academic research. Do not do a PhD if you don't want a career in academia and especially not if you want to keep the relatively low levels of stress you are enjoying at the moment. By all means, consider another MA but a PhD is a whole different level.
posted by coffee_monster at 1:30 AM on January 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

A PhD can make it harder to get a job in the private sector. A prospective employer may think you'll want to be treated and paid like a rock star, and that your mastery of some narrow sector of knowledge will be of no help to his business.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:27 AM on January 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

I did a part-time STEM PhD. I had a project that I wanted to work on, and my job wouldn't have given me the space and time to do it. So, I figured I could use the PhD approach to (1) satisfy my curiosity about the topic and (2) end up with a credential at the end. I was academia-curious on entering.

I did it all in about 3.5 years. By the end, I had the credential, I had satisfied my curiosity about the topic and had determined that academia was ABSOLUTELY not the place for me. Doing the research was awesome (though...I didn't publish and formed no network to speak-of in the subject area, so it wasn't research in any sort of accepted sense of the term in academia, though it was very good and personally satisfying work to complete). Everything else? Not so much.

If you aren't interested in doing the research, I am not quite sure why you wouldn't either do an MA or take a bunch of classes on your own.
posted by chiefthe at 5:33 AM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

If it was me, getting a second MA sounds much more engaging than getting a PHD. It sounds like a more fulfilling, less annoying experience. And makes your employable skills more flexible.
posted by ovvl at 5:56 AM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

With the caveat that a lot depends on your particular area (like, I would tell someone to only start a PhD program if they had guaranteed funding for at least most of the program), I'd agree that unless you have a specific project in mind or think of a specific way that the PhD would further your career, sticking to taking courses/getting another MA/Certificate sounds more in line with what you like to do.

I have a clinical doctorate and now work in a lab supporting the people doing research. I even get to take a pretty active role in developing some of research projects. I frequently get asked about doing a PhD. I have absolutely no interest in it even though I have a greater than average interest in research. A PhD tends to be very focused on a specific set of projects, both to answer a specific question (or set of related questions) and as a way of developing your abilities to become an independent researcher: how to develop a research project, do the actual research, publish/present your research, and obtain funding (grant writing, etc). You'll also probably have a bit less flexibility in picking which courses to take, since you and your advisor (I'll assume that you are able to find an advisor happy to work with a part time student) will probably work together to pick the courses most applicable to your project(s). Sometimes structure is great, but sometimes people will find it limiting.

If all of that still sounds interesting to you, go ahead! Especially if you're comfortable walking away if it winds up being too much. I'd definitely have a frank talk with your MA advisor. They'd probably be able to give you a good sense for how PhDs go in your particular area.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:24 AM on January 11, 2023

While pursuing a bachelor's and master's degree, students learn to consume knowledge. How to acquire it, synthesize it, and internalize it. While pursuing a PhD, students learn how to produce knowledge, often with little structure or support for how to do that. That is a HUGE difference, and one that can't be emphasized enough. Unless you want to be a knowledge producer, don't get a PhD. Just take other classes that are of interest.
posted by OrangeDisk at 8:55 AM on January 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

Definitely read this first: So You Want To Go To Grad School (in the Academic Humanities)?
posted by sindark at 12:52 PM on January 11, 2023

Before I started my PhD, someone once told me, don't do a PhD unless it's the only way to do what you are trying to do. Rules are made to be broken, but looking back, I think it's at least a good warning. I did in fact need to do it for the career I was interested in, but the type of mind-bending psychological stress involved in feeling tied to a project that is supposed to represent the culmination of five+ years of work - just the very real feeling of what did I do with my life for all of this time, and why didn't I spend it on other, more self-sustaining things - and of deliberately sacrificing so much of your time and sanity for the effort of making yourself unintelligible to most people by becoming the "expert" in a thing potentially nobody else understands or cares about - becomes a defining aspect of their identity for many people, at least for the years surrounding it. Which is to say, it might bend you into a particular type of implement, which is useful if you are trying to be a particular type of implement in a larger machine.

But that might just be my experience, and I think it depends on how well you are at compartmentalizing, the program you're in, etc.!
posted by nightcoast at 2:32 PM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]