Help facing moving from a place with little covid to a place with covid
October 31, 2022 6:09 AM Subscribe
I have been in a pretty rare position: I have no had to deal with covid much at all since the beginning of the pandemic. I will likely be moving somewhere where I will have to deal with covid, and I don't really know how to deal with that...both emotionally (I'm terrified) and pragmatically (what are the reasonable ways to deal with this in a world where nobody gives a fuck?). more details within
I currently live in a small city in china. For a plethora of reasons, I would like to leave. Note: I really really do not want to derail this with opinions on the zero covid policy in china. The only thing relevant to this question is the pragmatic reality of my life, which is that covid has not affected my life nearly to the degree that it has affected anyone I know outside of china. Being in a small city, we have not had to deal with the harsher sides of zero covid in china (eg the lockdown in shanghai)...and because of the aggressive policy, our lives have been more or less completely unchanged by covid. I do not know anyone here who has gotten covid--but outside of china I don't know anyone who hasn't gotten covid, and the people I know in America are now starting to get it for the 2nd or 3rd time. Again, I realize that zero covid is itself an extremely problematic policy for a lot of reasons, but all that matters here is that up to now, as long as I don't travel (which I haven't), I have not been affected by covid.
however, due to various factors (having been out of work for ages, the political situation in china, the fact that covid is not going away) I feel like it is "time" to "take the plunge" and leave. For a while I was waiting for the situation outside of china to get better...it hasn't, at least, not to the degree that would make me feel great about leaving. I joked with my friends (darkly) that I'd leave china when the world got as good as china (unlikely) or when china got as bad as the rest of the world (significantly more likely). still, I've been in this weird limbo for a long time, where my life has been on hold (a very, very pleasant hold, mind you!), and I think if I keep waiting I'm going to be waiting forever (though if I were a betting man I do think the disease will eventually go endemic in china, though ok I don't want to derail with politics).
the country we are most likely to move to is currently japan, tokyo specifically (with a runner up of canada, either vancouver or greater toronto). the aspect of this move that I am by far dreading the most is having to deal with covid. I know that I have been in a very rare position, and that people here have had to deal with this fucking pandemic for much longer than I have--I get it. but while I have perspective on the matter, that doesn't change the visceral fear I feel about having to swim in the same shark infested waters everyone else I know has been having to swim in. it feels like we are all simply resigned to get covid every year, over and over again, playing russian roulette with our bodies until we inevitably get some form of long covid, which itself will only get more and more serious with repeat infection. it feels like "taking covid seriously" will end up being the difference between getting covid once a year instead of twice a year.
so I guess that's one thing that I'd be interesting in having some help tackling. how can I think about the mental side of the pandemic? everyone I know, those who care more to those who care less, have largely just decided not to think about it, and hope for the best. all of the data that I've seen looks pretty awful (though I'd love to be proven wrong there and/or see some hope when it comes to the risks posed by repeat infection, for example), and it seems like people have just...decided not to think about it because it's too overwhelmingly awful (well, I am talking about more reasonable people here, not the people who think covid is a government conspiracy or whatever). I guess I've just built it up in my mind that by leaving the relative safety I'm in now, I'm basically rolling the dice on disabling myself or my wife. we are both in our 30s and have minimal comorbidities (as far as I know), but still. it's such a grim reality and I don't really know how to reconcile that with the fact that I feel like I cannot be in this life limbo forever.
and the other question is more pragmatic: so like...how should I live life in a place where covid is endemic? this I imagine there are other questions or certainly links online, but like...how can I travel by air safely? what are the actions one can reasonably take in their everyday life to move the needle on covid risk? in japan one benefit is that masking is generally pretty good, but I mean...subways are packed full of people etc. Japan is having its worst wave since the beginning of the pandemic for a reason, even if it still is doing better than the US.
it sort of boils down to the fact that I have not had to deal with any risk tradeoffs at all during the pandemic, well except the major one of "wait things out in china at expense to my career." but I haven't really had to think about "is the risk of infection worth going to this concert?" or anything like that. or more fundamentally, "am I going to get long covid? what then?" my friends in america have had to think about it, but every single one (all of which were quite conservative at the beginning of the pandemic and took things quite seriously) now is more or less in "head in sand" mode, so they're not really thinking about risk either...so I dunno
I hope this makes sense. I think the mental part is the biggest struggle. and look, I realize that I have been in an immensely privileged place to not have had to think about this up until now. I really hope that the answers are not just yelling at me for feeling bad that I have to deal with covid now because everyone else has had to deal with it for the last 3 years etc. I've always felt that the public health response globally has been woefully inadequate, I weep for the immunocomprized that society has decided to throw under the bus, I'm deeply depressed that something so simple as masking has become so divisive, I'm so sad that service workers bore the brunt of so many deaths in america when they are so deeply abused by our corporations...all I can say is that my situation is my situation. I have had the luxury of not having to think much about it, and I soon likely will have to, and it terrifies me. I feel like I'm rolling the dice on my brain turning to mush. I realize that that is extreme, but that is what it feels like.
I currently live in a small city in china. For a plethora of reasons, I would like to leave. Note: I really really do not want to derail this with opinions on the zero covid policy in china. The only thing relevant to this question is the pragmatic reality of my life, which is that covid has not affected my life nearly to the degree that it has affected anyone I know outside of china. Being in a small city, we have not had to deal with the harsher sides of zero covid in china (eg the lockdown in shanghai)...and because of the aggressive policy, our lives have been more or less completely unchanged by covid. I do not know anyone here who has gotten covid--but outside of china I don't know anyone who hasn't gotten covid, and the people I know in America are now starting to get it for the 2nd or 3rd time. Again, I realize that zero covid is itself an extremely problematic policy for a lot of reasons, but all that matters here is that up to now, as long as I don't travel (which I haven't), I have not been affected by covid.
however, due to various factors (having been out of work for ages, the political situation in china, the fact that covid is not going away) I feel like it is "time" to "take the plunge" and leave. For a while I was waiting for the situation outside of china to get better...it hasn't, at least, not to the degree that would make me feel great about leaving. I joked with my friends (darkly) that I'd leave china when the world got as good as china (unlikely) or when china got as bad as the rest of the world (significantly more likely). still, I've been in this weird limbo for a long time, where my life has been on hold (a very, very pleasant hold, mind you!), and I think if I keep waiting I'm going to be waiting forever (though if I were a betting man I do think the disease will eventually go endemic in china, though ok I don't want to derail with politics).
the country we are most likely to move to is currently japan, tokyo specifically (with a runner up of canada, either vancouver or greater toronto). the aspect of this move that I am by far dreading the most is having to deal with covid. I know that I have been in a very rare position, and that people here have had to deal with this fucking pandemic for much longer than I have--I get it. but while I have perspective on the matter, that doesn't change the visceral fear I feel about having to swim in the same shark infested waters everyone else I know has been having to swim in. it feels like we are all simply resigned to get covid every year, over and over again, playing russian roulette with our bodies until we inevitably get some form of long covid, which itself will only get more and more serious with repeat infection. it feels like "taking covid seriously" will end up being the difference between getting covid once a year instead of twice a year.
so I guess that's one thing that I'd be interesting in having some help tackling. how can I think about the mental side of the pandemic? everyone I know, those who care more to those who care less, have largely just decided not to think about it, and hope for the best. all of the data that I've seen looks pretty awful (though I'd love to be proven wrong there and/or see some hope when it comes to the risks posed by repeat infection, for example), and it seems like people have just...decided not to think about it because it's too overwhelmingly awful (well, I am talking about more reasonable people here, not the people who think covid is a government conspiracy or whatever). I guess I've just built it up in my mind that by leaving the relative safety I'm in now, I'm basically rolling the dice on disabling myself or my wife. we are both in our 30s and have minimal comorbidities (as far as I know), but still. it's such a grim reality and I don't really know how to reconcile that with the fact that I feel like I cannot be in this life limbo forever.
and the other question is more pragmatic: so like...how should I live life in a place where covid is endemic? this I imagine there are other questions or certainly links online, but like...how can I travel by air safely? what are the actions one can reasonably take in their everyday life to move the needle on covid risk? in japan one benefit is that masking is generally pretty good, but I mean...subways are packed full of people etc. Japan is having its worst wave since the beginning of the pandemic for a reason, even if it still is doing better than the US.
it sort of boils down to the fact that I have not had to deal with any risk tradeoffs at all during the pandemic, well except the major one of "wait things out in china at expense to my career." but I haven't really had to think about "is the risk of infection worth going to this concert?" or anything like that. or more fundamentally, "am I going to get long covid? what then?" my friends in america have had to think about it, but every single one (all of which were quite conservative at the beginning of the pandemic and took things quite seriously) now is more or less in "head in sand" mode, so they're not really thinking about risk either...so I dunno
I hope this makes sense. I think the mental part is the biggest struggle. and look, I realize that I have been in an immensely privileged place to not have had to think about this up until now. I really hope that the answers are not just yelling at me for feeling bad that I have to deal with covid now because everyone else has had to deal with it for the last 3 years etc. I've always felt that the public health response globally has been woefully inadequate, I weep for the immunocomprized that society has decided to throw under the bus, I'm deeply depressed that something so simple as masking has become so divisive, I'm so sad that service workers bore the brunt of so many deaths in america when they are so deeply abused by our corporations...all I can say is that my situation is my situation. I have had the luxury of not having to think much about it, and I soon likely will have to, and it terrifies me. I feel like I'm rolling the dice on my brain turning to mush. I realize that that is extreme, but that is what it feels like.
American here. I have all the sympathy for you. The biggest mental health effect I’ve had is the feeling of being alone in still caring. It adds a huge barrier to socializing, because it’s taboo in most places to talk about how to make gatherings more safe; the onus is entirely on anybody with risks or life complications to bow out of social events quietly, rather than to talk openly about safety. My hope is that in Japan, you will have less of that noise, because they understood early on how it spread and what to do to fight it.
As for the practicalities, I had to fly a lot through COVID infested places this year during some BA.* wave or other, but/and I have never tested positive. I am as vaccinated as local policy allows, and I wear an N95 in every public setting and have a high threshold for removing it (no indoor restaurants, yes dentist appointments). Find something similarly protective in Japan and you’ll be doing the best you can. You might also consider a CO2 monitor. My little Aranet4 tells me when rooms are not well ventilated, which is an imperfect proxy for infectious disease, but it’s not nothing. For the handful of unmasked indoor gatherings I’ve had (we’re talking two-family dinners; no real parties) everybody antigen tests first. For friends I am not intimate enough with to take the social risk of talking about testing, we meet outside. It is decidedly imperfect.
Now for the science stuff. I do think some of the long COVID risk has been communicated poorly. As far as I can tell, this term appears to be applied to a mix of three things — an ME-like syndrome, a new chronic disease, and a long illness that behaves more or less like the acute illness. I suspect, though it’s hard to know from press reports, that the ME-like outcome is a small fraction of the total cases that are being long COVID. (Mind, that can still be an inexcusably huge number of people when everyone is expected to get COVID.) I also doubt that it’s truly an independent draw each time you get infected: I suspect some people might be more susceptible than others, which would tend to make getting it on round 2 less likely if you know you didn’t on round 1, plus which I suspect past exposure itself provides some protection (however imperfect) if your immune system is in working order. That is not to say that we should be cavalier about the risk; the vulnerable matter too; even 2-4 percent of everybody getting some new chronic disease after an acute infection is a nasty outcome for society; and I think there’s much to be said for being cautious. I just think that catastrophizing won’t help you manage. It’s bad, yep, but so is climate change and we sort of have to keep putting one foot in front of the other anyway. I don’t know. It’s hard and I wish you luck.
posted by eirias at 6:45 AM on October 31, 2022 [12 favorites]
As for the practicalities, I had to fly a lot through COVID infested places this year during some BA.* wave or other, but/and I have never tested positive. I am as vaccinated as local policy allows, and I wear an N95 in every public setting and have a high threshold for removing it (no indoor restaurants, yes dentist appointments). Find something similarly protective in Japan and you’ll be doing the best you can. You might also consider a CO2 monitor. My little Aranet4 tells me when rooms are not well ventilated, which is an imperfect proxy for infectious disease, but it’s not nothing. For the handful of unmasked indoor gatherings I’ve had (we’re talking two-family dinners; no real parties) everybody antigen tests first. For friends I am not intimate enough with to take the social risk of talking about testing, we meet outside. It is decidedly imperfect.
Now for the science stuff. I do think some of the long COVID risk has been communicated poorly. As far as I can tell, this term appears to be applied to a mix of three things — an ME-like syndrome, a new chronic disease, and a long illness that behaves more or less like the acute illness. I suspect, though it’s hard to know from press reports, that the ME-like outcome is a small fraction of the total cases that are being long COVID. (Mind, that can still be an inexcusably huge number of people when everyone is expected to get COVID.) I also doubt that it’s truly an independent draw each time you get infected: I suspect some people might be more susceptible than others, which would tend to make getting it on round 2 less likely if you know you didn’t on round 1, plus which I suspect past exposure itself provides some protection (however imperfect) if your immune system is in working order. That is not to say that we should be cavalier about the risk; the vulnerable matter too; even 2-4 percent of everybody getting some new chronic disease after an acute infection is a nasty outcome for society; and I think there’s much to be said for being cautious. I just think that catastrophizing won’t help you manage. It’s bad, yep, but so is climate change and we sort of have to keep putting one foot in front of the other anyway. I don’t know. It’s hard and I wish you luck.
posted by eirias at 6:45 AM on October 31, 2022 [12 favorites]
I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this now - yeah, it's scary, and it sounds like you're having to make a lot of decisions at once that a lot of us for better or for worse have made and re-made slowly over the course of a few years. I can imagine that must be pretty overwhelming to have land on your shoulders all at once.
Certainly, if you're not already vaccinated and boosted and in possession of a supply of good masks, that's item #1. Beyond that: yep, you're going to have to make some decisions about risk budgeting based on what you a) have to do to keep a roof over your head and b) want to prioritize to balance safety and whatever for you makes your life worth sticking around for.
I can tell you broadly what that looks like for me as a still-fairly-cautious American, but that doesn't mean the trade-offs I've made are the right ones for you. I would encourage you to start cautious and add in things as you feel comfortable and make choices about the things important to you. For me, this looks like: no air travel, maybe ever again, short of family medical emergency. I'll consider in another year or two whether one annual plane trip for work might be acceptable; I skipped conferences in 2022 and 2023 has made it easy on me by staging my big annual conference within train distance. Train travel: To be avoided as much as possible, but I did make one train trip this year to see my parents for the first time in three years, with as many precautions as I could pile into it, and I tentatively will do that again. My vague intention moving forward is to do what I did this year and aim for one annual family visit timed right after the annual boosters so we're all as protected as possible. But my parents are elderly and sick and I'm resigned to the fact that a certain amount of riskier travel may be in my future to support them, and that's a trade-off I'm unhappy about but accept I may have to make.
In my daily life, I work from home to the maximum extent allowed, 99% of my purchases are done via delivery, I do not eat at restaurants indoors or outdoors, but I'm pretty happy with all of that and none of it feels like a sacrifice. I've found some relatively safe ways to get my social and self-care needs met - one friend I get together with regularly whose risk budget is similar to mine, and one self-care thing I do rarely and as safely as reasonably possible. That's all I need, really, and I could happily run the social part of my life like that indefinitely too. The big thing I don't do and miss is live theater/music - but that's just not within my comfort level right now, and may not be ever again. That sucks, but long Covid would be a catastrophe in my already-disabled family so that's where I am. Maybe if my family situation were a little different I'd be considering whether smaller plays, masked, with quarantining after to avoid being a link in a transmission chain, would be acceptable.
It is hard to deal with the mental/emotional side of feeling like everyone else has given up. But that's just not true. The fact is that a lot of people are still being cautious - you just don't see them, or hear about them on the news or whatever, because they're at home being cautious. I know a lot of people like, or more cautious than, myself, because disabled people tend to flock together and a lot of us are being careful. But it can still feel isolating. So if you're not tied into a community of people making similar choices, and in a new place to boot, I'm sure that's going to feel even more isolating! I don't know exactly what to suggest other than making a concerted effort to seek online communities or virtual activities based on the area you're moving, to stay in touch with people making some of the same choices you are.
It might also help to have a specific idea for yourself, once you've done some more research and assessed situations wherever you move to, of when you might relax certain precautions. For example: I have a specific local case count number in mind of when I'd feel comfortable with an indoor gathering of more friends than just the one I see. (I'm skeptical we'll ever see that number again but that's a separate issue.) Having that threshold in mind means I'm not perpetually staring at local covid data and driving myself up a wall wondering NOW is it time? NOW? What about NOW? It's not a decision I have to wear myself out remaking every time someone invites me; I just know I won't do it until XYZ. I probably should revisit that decision once in a while to make sure i still feel good about it based on current facts, but that's less exhausting than being in a perpetual state of threat assessment.
posted by Stacey at 7:04 AM on October 31, 2022 [10 favorites]
Certainly, if you're not already vaccinated and boosted and in possession of a supply of good masks, that's item #1. Beyond that: yep, you're going to have to make some decisions about risk budgeting based on what you a) have to do to keep a roof over your head and b) want to prioritize to balance safety and whatever for you makes your life worth sticking around for.
I can tell you broadly what that looks like for me as a still-fairly-cautious American, but that doesn't mean the trade-offs I've made are the right ones for you. I would encourage you to start cautious and add in things as you feel comfortable and make choices about the things important to you. For me, this looks like: no air travel, maybe ever again, short of family medical emergency. I'll consider in another year or two whether one annual plane trip for work might be acceptable; I skipped conferences in 2022 and 2023 has made it easy on me by staging my big annual conference within train distance. Train travel: To be avoided as much as possible, but I did make one train trip this year to see my parents for the first time in three years, with as many precautions as I could pile into it, and I tentatively will do that again. My vague intention moving forward is to do what I did this year and aim for one annual family visit timed right after the annual boosters so we're all as protected as possible. But my parents are elderly and sick and I'm resigned to the fact that a certain amount of riskier travel may be in my future to support them, and that's a trade-off I'm unhappy about but accept I may have to make.
In my daily life, I work from home to the maximum extent allowed, 99% of my purchases are done via delivery, I do not eat at restaurants indoors or outdoors, but I'm pretty happy with all of that and none of it feels like a sacrifice. I've found some relatively safe ways to get my social and self-care needs met - one friend I get together with regularly whose risk budget is similar to mine, and one self-care thing I do rarely and as safely as reasonably possible. That's all I need, really, and I could happily run the social part of my life like that indefinitely too. The big thing I don't do and miss is live theater/music - but that's just not within my comfort level right now, and may not be ever again. That sucks, but long Covid would be a catastrophe in my already-disabled family so that's where I am. Maybe if my family situation were a little different I'd be considering whether smaller plays, masked, with quarantining after to avoid being a link in a transmission chain, would be acceptable.
It is hard to deal with the mental/emotional side of feeling like everyone else has given up. But that's just not true. The fact is that a lot of people are still being cautious - you just don't see them, or hear about them on the news or whatever, because they're at home being cautious. I know a lot of people like, or more cautious than, myself, because disabled people tend to flock together and a lot of us are being careful. But it can still feel isolating. So if you're not tied into a community of people making similar choices, and in a new place to boot, I'm sure that's going to feel even more isolating! I don't know exactly what to suggest other than making a concerted effort to seek online communities or virtual activities based on the area you're moving, to stay in touch with people making some of the same choices you are.
It might also help to have a specific idea for yourself, once you've done some more research and assessed situations wherever you move to, of when you might relax certain precautions. For example: I have a specific local case count number in mind of when I'd feel comfortable with an indoor gathering of more friends than just the one I see. (I'm skeptical we'll ever see that number again but that's a separate issue.) Having that threshold in mind means I'm not perpetually staring at local covid data and driving myself up a wall wondering NOW is it time? NOW? What about NOW? It's not a decision I have to wear myself out remaking every time someone invites me; I just know I won't do it until XYZ. I probably should revisit that decision once in a while to make sure i still feel good about it based on current facts, but that's less exhausting than being in a perpetual state of threat assessment.
posted by Stacey at 7:04 AM on October 31, 2022 [10 favorites]
Oh hey I have also been in this situation, although not for as long. (I was in Adelaide, Australia in early 2020, where after a couple of months of lockdown things were broadly covid-free; once or twice there'd be a case that escaped hotel quarantine and we'd have another little lockdown for a few days to give contact tracers time to make sure it hadn't got any further. I came back to London, where I am now, mid-2021, shortly before South Australia opened up its borders and everyone got covid anyway.)
It is a really odd experience to go, all of a sudden, from this sense of flukish safety to a place where such a vast majority of people have already got used to and accepted the risk. It's very stressful. It will probably feel awful and terrifying for a while. I wrote a big thing here but honestly, it was such a weird and specific mix of "I have been so lucky" and "I am really scared" that I don't feel up for writing about it in detail publicly; but please message me if you want a bunch of "well this is how it went for me" thoughts from someone who's had a similar experience.
I will say though that if you can work from home (which it sounds like you probably can, if your move isn't locked into going to a particular country?) and be careful about when you go to the shops, which social things you take up, etc you can still behave in a way that minimises your risk. It's not as all-or-nothing as it maybe feels like it's going to be. I've been back for a year and haven't had covid; almost none of my (admittedly few) fewer-risks friends have had it; about 80% of my more-risks friends have had it, some of them multiple times. No guarantees, sure, but even in a place where there's a bunch of covid around, your behaviour matters. You aren't deciding to just go and immediately get covid. You can move and see how it goes and how you feel, and what feels worth the risk and what doesn't.
posted by severalbees at 7:10 AM on October 31, 2022 [12 favorites]
It is a really odd experience to go, all of a sudden, from this sense of flukish safety to a place where such a vast majority of people have already got used to and accepted the risk. It's very stressful. It will probably feel awful and terrifying for a while. I wrote a big thing here but honestly, it was such a weird and specific mix of "I have been so lucky" and "I am really scared" that I don't feel up for writing about it in detail publicly; but please message me if you want a bunch of "well this is how it went for me" thoughts from someone who's had a similar experience.
I will say though that if you can work from home (which it sounds like you probably can, if your move isn't locked into going to a particular country?) and be careful about when you go to the shops, which social things you take up, etc you can still behave in a way that minimises your risk. It's not as all-or-nothing as it maybe feels like it's going to be. I've been back for a year and haven't had covid; almost none of my (admittedly few) fewer-risks friends have had it; about 80% of my more-risks friends have had it, some of them multiple times. No guarantees, sure, but even in a place where there's a bunch of covid around, your behaviour matters. You aren't deciding to just go and immediately get covid. You can move and see how it goes and how you feel, and what feels worth the risk and what doesn't.
posted by severalbees at 7:10 AM on October 31, 2022 [12 favorites]
Living in one of the places you're considering, covid at this point is basically one of those risks of living life. You do what you can to avoid it according to your risk level, including getting vaxxed, wearing masks and staying home when you're sick, etc, but you can do everything right in life and bad things will still happen. Some people never smoke a thing in their life, but end up with lung cancer. Drive super defensive, but you can still get sideswiped and seriously injured. Even living in China has political risks living in Canada does not. Perhaps with Covid existing the risk of living life has increased a little more than pre-covid, but other than being good human beings and doing our part re vaccinations and masks, etc there's not much any of us can do about it at the larger scale. At this point, the risk of not living and enjoying our lives is higher than our fear of getting covid.
posted by cgg at 7:26 AM on October 31, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by cgg at 7:26 AM on October 31, 2022 [12 favorites]
You have reasonable concerns, but you're also catastrophizing a bit. Like, if you're going to be in Japan, there is no/minimal politicization of mask-wearing in Japan, so don't work yourself up about that any more than you would about any other world issue that doesn't affect you directly.
I think you will eventually, as most of us have, come to some kind of general decision about what kinds of activities are/are not acceptably risky, and then you can kind of go on auto-pilot about it. At first, there will be lots of decisions to make and it will be VERY STRESSFUL, but eventually, you will have already made most of the decisions once or twice already. Right now my approach to COVID risk is pretty automatic. Like, I do weigh the COVID risk against the potential reward of an activity, but in the same kind of way I would weigh the annoyance of having to travel a long way. Some friends/activities/etc. are worth a four hour drive or a train and two busses; some friends/activites/etc. are not worth the increased COVID risk.
I, personally, am much more lax than a lot of mefites, at least the folks who tend to weigh in on these threads - I eat indoors at restaurants, for example, and I sing in large groups, mostly masked but sometimes unmasked. I take buses, subways, and trains (though usually not at the most crowded times). But I also live alone, work from home, and mask when it doesn't interfere with what I'm doing (e.g. at shops, concerts, transit, etc.).
But for what it's worth I still haven't had COVID yet (my only respiratory illness since 2019 has been allergy-related sinus infections). The vast majority of the people I know *have* had COVID (even people who are more cautious than me), so I think this a bit of luck but mostly I spend 90%+ of my indoor time alone - I suspect the broad strokes of your lifestyle can make a huge difference.
posted by mskyle at 7:26 AM on October 31, 2022 [9 favorites]
I think you will eventually, as most of us have, come to some kind of general decision about what kinds of activities are/are not acceptably risky, and then you can kind of go on auto-pilot about it. At first, there will be lots of decisions to make and it will be VERY STRESSFUL, but eventually, you will have already made most of the decisions once or twice already. Right now my approach to COVID risk is pretty automatic. Like, I do weigh the COVID risk against the potential reward of an activity, but in the same kind of way I would weigh the annoyance of having to travel a long way. Some friends/activities/etc. are worth a four hour drive or a train and two busses; some friends/activites/etc. are not worth the increased COVID risk.
I, personally, am much more lax than a lot of mefites, at least the folks who tend to weigh in on these threads - I eat indoors at restaurants, for example, and I sing in large groups, mostly masked but sometimes unmasked. I take buses, subways, and trains (though usually not at the most crowded times). But I also live alone, work from home, and mask when it doesn't interfere with what I'm doing (e.g. at shops, concerts, transit, etc.).
But for what it's worth I still haven't had COVID yet (my only respiratory illness since 2019 has been allergy-related sinus infections). The vast majority of the people I know *have* had COVID (even people who are more cautious than me), so I think this a bit of luck but mostly I spend 90%+ of my indoor time alone - I suspect the broad strokes of your lifestyle can make a huge difference.
posted by mskyle at 7:26 AM on October 31, 2022 [9 favorites]
For me the key to dealing mentally has been to take surges seriously. The numbers in Japan between surges are not trivial, but they are at the same level and severity of the seasonal flu and appear to have a similar chance of long term complications. It's not a great situation but it's a level of risk that you've probably dealt with your whole life.
So yes, you would be walking into a scary situation, but there are significant breaks. It's not a life of constant overwhelming fear.
I am of course vaccinated and during normal times I wear a mask in public 100% of the time and don't spend a lot of time in closed spaces with other people. That's it. Airplanes don't bother me due to airflow, but airports require some care to stay clear of crowds.
During surges I don't travel at all and strongly avoid going out in public. I have everything delivered. If I'm really desperate for company I'll go spend time with one friend at a time, on their back patio and with a fan providing a crosswind.
Despite those precautions I consider catching COVID to be inevitable, and at that point I mentally fall back on the recovery statistics. Even with several comorbidities the odds of a full recovery are very good -- much better than they were at the beginning and getting better all the time.
To summarize, simple precautions and keeping an eye on recovery rates have made the whole thing manageable for me. The possibility of COVID is a constant and annoying presence in my life, but not a paralyzing one.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:41 AM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
So yes, you would be walking into a scary situation, but there are significant breaks. It's not a life of constant overwhelming fear.
I am of course vaccinated and during normal times I wear a mask in public 100% of the time and don't spend a lot of time in closed spaces with other people. That's it. Airplanes don't bother me due to airflow, but airports require some care to stay clear of crowds.
During surges I don't travel at all and strongly avoid going out in public. I have everything delivered. If I'm really desperate for company I'll go spend time with one friend at a time, on their back patio and with a fan providing a crosswind.
Despite those precautions I consider catching COVID to be inevitable, and at that point I mentally fall back on the recovery statistics. Even with several comorbidities the odds of a full recovery are very good -- much better than they were at the beginning and getting better all the time.
To summarize, simple precautions and keeping an eye on recovery rates have made the whole thing manageable for me. The possibility of COVID is a constant and annoying presence in my life, but not a paralyzing one.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:41 AM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
You pretty much need to decide whether you want to limit your life to minimize Covid risk, or expect to get Covid with some regularity. In my world it is possible to avoid Covid- I haven't gotten it. But that's due to a lot of privilege (working from home) and a lot of tradeoffs (always masking indoors in public- which means no restaurants for example, not seeing more than six friends indoors unmasked at a time, no airports). My world has gotten a lot smaller.
Most people have decided that the risk of long-term consequences from getting Covid are worth the personal benefits they get from concerts, parties, etc. With the availability of vaccines this is no longer as unethical a choice.
posted by metasarah at 8:03 AM on October 31, 2022
Most people have decided that the risk of long-term consequences from getting Covid are worth the personal benefits they get from concerts, parties, etc. With the availability of vaccines this is no longer as unethical a choice.
posted by metasarah at 8:03 AM on October 31, 2022
I live and work in the GTA, and my business is a face-to-face one, although as a back office worker I can sometimes minimize the risk. Not today, because people at my work have Covid and I will be going in to cover for them. Also I have kids in school.
I've had Covid and I am not suffering true long-term Covid but I have had some impacts to my health, and am investigating some cardiological issues. Out of my family of 5 I'm the only one that didn't recover fully.
Mentally here's how I deal with it.
1. I've had a virus with long-term sequelae including a demyelination disorder - mononucleosis or Epstein-Barr. Until Covid, it never occurred to me to prevent my kids from doing anything in case they got the same. Of course if there were a vaccine or a way to mitigate the risk, I would do that. And so, we do.
2. We don't do a lot of things - indoor dining and indoor gatherings and a bunch of things. There are a few things we do do unless there's a surge - notably martial arts and working out (except I am on hiatus, see above.) And some things, like work and school, that we do.
3. We all wear n95s, except when doing physical activity in which case a surgical mask is what my kids use. They are not always great about it at school, but we talked and hopefully they are trying again today.
4. We get our boosters etc. ASAP.
5. And after that...look, I am kind of devastated that my kids' lifespans will probably not be what my parents' were, due both to Covid and likely to climate change. I do have hope that as they get older, whatever they have as damage from Covid will be mitigated by future treatments that I can't conceive of now. But they were not born in 1880 either.
I would give my right arm to guarantee them freedom from Covid long-term effects. And yet...what I won't give up entirely is their lives.
We locked down multiple terms in 2020 & 2021. And...I'm not sorry, but I have seen them go from generally happy capable kids to slightly fearful, more socially anxious kids with less "real stuff" in their lives and more Twitch streamers. My family and I tried to "make it fun" and then the adults burned out trying to make a fucking pandemic wholesome.
Sometimes, all you can do is focus on the now.
I still encourage them to plan their careers, save up some money, spend some money, wear masks, stay home when sick, choose 1-2 times a month to do something riskier like *gasp* go to a friend's house to create an animated short -- try to balance it. We'll make mistakes. We don't have 50 years of information here.
4. a) I had this conversation with my MIL as well, who is in her mid-70s. She locked down and is high-risk for Covid complications (she got Paxlovid when we got Covid and recovered better than I did.) For her, locking down for a year may be like...8-10% of her remaining life, possibly left of time she is active and healthy. This is very much on her mind. So, she took an art class and travelled to visit family.
Obviously, this calculus is very personal and some people's calculus is inherently shittier.
But - if you decide that what you need to live is to be somewhere higher-risk then that's the trade off. Try to make the decision and then let the subsequent feelings pass. The feelings come, man.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:07 AM on October 31, 2022 [10 favorites]
I've had Covid and I am not suffering true long-term Covid but I have had some impacts to my health, and am investigating some cardiological issues. Out of my family of 5 I'm the only one that didn't recover fully.
Mentally here's how I deal with it.
1. I've had a virus with long-term sequelae including a demyelination disorder - mononucleosis or Epstein-Barr. Until Covid, it never occurred to me to prevent my kids from doing anything in case they got the same. Of course if there were a vaccine or a way to mitigate the risk, I would do that. And so, we do.
2. We don't do a lot of things - indoor dining and indoor gatherings and a bunch of things. There are a few things we do do unless there's a surge - notably martial arts and working out (except I am on hiatus, see above.) And some things, like work and school, that we do.
3. We all wear n95s, except when doing physical activity in which case a surgical mask is what my kids use. They are not always great about it at school, but we talked and hopefully they are trying again today.
4. We get our boosters etc. ASAP.
5. And after that...look, I am kind of devastated that my kids' lifespans will probably not be what my parents' were, due both to Covid and likely to climate change. I do have hope that as they get older, whatever they have as damage from Covid will be mitigated by future treatments that I can't conceive of now. But they were not born in 1880 either.
I would give my right arm to guarantee them freedom from Covid long-term effects. And yet...what I won't give up entirely is their lives.
We locked down multiple terms in 2020 & 2021. And...I'm not sorry, but I have seen them go from generally happy capable kids to slightly fearful, more socially anxious kids with less "real stuff" in their lives and more Twitch streamers. My family and I tried to "make it fun" and then the adults burned out trying to make a fucking pandemic wholesome.
Sometimes, all you can do is focus on the now.
I still encourage them to plan their careers, save up some money, spend some money, wear masks, stay home when sick, choose 1-2 times a month to do something riskier like *gasp* go to a friend's house to create an animated short -- try to balance it. We'll make mistakes. We don't have 50 years of information here.
4. a) I had this conversation with my MIL as well, who is in her mid-70s. She locked down and is high-risk for Covid complications (she got Paxlovid when we got Covid and recovered better than I did.) For her, locking down for a year may be like...8-10% of her remaining life, possibly left of time she is active and healthy. This is very much on her mind. So, she took an art class and travelled to visit family.
Obviously, this calculus is very personal and some people's calculus is inherently shittier.
But - if you decide that what you need to live is to be somewhere higher-risk then that's the trade off. Try to make the decision and then let the subsequent feelings pass. The feelings come, man.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:07 AM on October 31, 2022 [10 favorites]
it feels like we are all simply resigned to get covid every year, over and over again, playing russian roulette with our bodies until we inevitably get some form of long covid, which itself will only get more and more serious with repeat infection.
This is catastrophizing. You need to stop reading speculation on long COVID until the data is better and you are better at identifying people who know what they're talking about within the limits of the data we do have. Seriously, just stop. You're feeding your anxiety an addictive poison. (This bit in particular, "which itself will only get more and more serious with repeat infection," has been established by no one. I don't think there's even been time to do so.)
Leaving a COVID-zero place for, well, anywhere else is going to be a change, and an unpleasant one, but this:
Like, I do weigh the COVID risk against the potential reward of an activity, but in the same kind of way I would weigh the annoyance of having to travel a long way.
is basically the truth for people who aren't especially vulnerable. You will figure out how you weigh the risk over time. (E.g., I weigh it less than some people here, but more than most of the people around me do now.) If you catch it (and, yes, you well might), unless you have some special vulnerability you haven't mentioned, you are very unlikely to die, and then you will have some data to add to your weighing. I haven't had it, despite living in NYC; at this point, luck must have played a significant role, but prudence helps. I've made preparations for being miserably sick for a week. If I experience sequelae, that will be worse--but I cross the busy street I live on every day, despite the risk of a car accident.
posted by praemunire at 8:09 AM on October 31, 2022 [22 favorites]
This is catastrophizing. You need to stop reading speculation on long COVID until the data is better and you are better at identifying people who know what they're talking about within the limits of the data we do have. Seriously, just stop. You're feeding your anxiety an addictive poison. (This bit in particular, "which itself will only get more and more serious with repeat infection," has been established by no one. I don't think there's even been time to do so.)
Leaving a COVID-zero place for, well, anywhere else is going to be a change, and an unpleasant one, but this:
Like, I do weigh the COVID risk against the potential reward of an activity, but in the same kind of way I would weigh the annoyance of having to travel a long way.
is basically the truth for people who aren't especially vulnerable. You will figure out how you weigh the risk over time. (E.g., I weigh it less than some people here, but more than most of the people around me do now.) If you catch it (and, yes, you well might), unless you have some special vulnerability you haven't mentioned, you are very unlikely to die, and then you will have some data to add to your weighing. I haven't had it, despite living in NYC; at this point, luck must have played a significant role, but prudence helps. I've made preparations for being miserably sick for a week. If I experience sequelae, that will be worse--but I cross the busy street I live on every day, despite the risk of a car accident.
posted by praemunire at 8:09 AM on October 31, 2022 [22 favorites]
Getting boosters when I am eligible and masking with a genuine, well-fitting KN95 (there are a lot of counterfeits out there) or similar everywhere inside except in my home or a few trusted friends' homes has lowered my anxiety about things a lot. I didn't stop masking inside when rates went down or when I got the updated booster. I mold the KN95 nosepieces carefully to my nose. Highly recommend citizen scientist Aaron Collins/Mask Nerd for advice about finding good masks.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:17 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:17 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
The reality is, at least in Canada, it has become very difficult to protect yourself. Most people don't wear masks, don't test and don't care. The risk of Long Covid or other post-acute consequences is certainly not as high as some people will tell you if you're vaccinated 4-5 times, but it is still significant (even if the real risk of serious long term consequences is 1%, that's a huge risk when the chance of getting infected is basically 100%).
We don't have a good grasp on what the risks are for someone on their second, third, fourth or fifth infection. We hope they are significantly lower, but the data simply isn't there right now (and no one seems particularly interested in finding out, though we'll probably get something eventually from the UK ONS). I think there are reasonable reasons to think the risk gets lower with repeated infections, but we don't have the data and we don't know how much lower.
You can definitely mask (get an elastomeric respirator, which is even better than an N95) and limit indoor interactions, but staying even relatively safe from Covid now requires a lot of sacrifice. That's the reality we live in and the choice you face. I don't know your situation, but maybe now is not the time to leave China. We don't know what the future will bring, but we do know what's happening right now and it's not good.
posted by ssg at 8:56 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
We don't have a good grasp on what the risks are for someone on their second, third, fourth or fifth infection. We hope they are significantly lower, but the data simply isn't there right now (and no one seems particularly interested in finding out, though we'll probably get something eventually from the UK ONS). I think there are reasonable reasons to think the risk gets lower with repeated infections, but we don't have the data and we don't know how much lower.
You can definitely mask (get an elastomeric respirator, which is even better than an N95) and limit indoor interactions, but staying even relatively safe from Covid now requires a lot of sacrifice. That's the reality we live in and the choice you face. I don't know your situation, but maybe now is not the time to leave China. We don't know what the future will bring, but we do know what's happening right now and it's not good.
posted by ssg at 8:56 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
I absolutely have sympathy for you; I was living in the US through the pandemic but in a relatively low risk area (San Francisco), with no children or local social contacts and a WFH job. The leap to visiting family again in summer 2021 (even when we were all optimistic about the end of the pandemic) was very jarring and stressful. I’m still emotionally adjusting to the new social expectations.
But it’s not “head in the sand” to acknowledge the massively negative effects of social isolation and disruption and make a choice to live in the world that exists. My head is not in the sand about climate change, but there’s not a whole fuck of a lot I can do about it, either. My nieces and nephews went from a year+ of remote school to basically 100% normal, back in person lives, and the effect on their moods and education has been massive. Most of my family has had COVID and recovered, and while repeat infections are rolling the dice again and again, there is so far no conclusive evidence that repeat infections are inevitably more severe.
I’ve had it once in 2.5 years, and haven’t been particularly careful the last year or so. I’m of the opinion that most people are fooling themselves about how effective masks are, and that either taking hospital-level precautions or just staying away from everyone is the only really effective mitigation (plus vaccines, of course). So that’s my random gut conclusion after rolling the dice a few hundred times.
I’m not saying this to call you out or anything, I just think if you frame it as people having their heads in the sand you have to accept that life is a series of choices about which side of the balance to have your head in the sand about. You’re of course welcome to be as cautious as you’re comfortable with (my dad is still taking strong precautions and hasn’t been infected, despite his partner traveling often to see her grandchildren) and I take precautions to visit him as safely as possible. But he’s always been a homebody; the cost/benefit is different for him. My mom’s health is worse and she’s been running around all over the place since March 2020. No rhyme or reason to it. It’s not like you have to be a total COVID ignorer to want to experience the rest of life after getting vaxxed 3-4 times. It’s a temperament thing. As an introvert, I’m aware it’s easy to judge if you weren’t that thrilled about seeing people in the first place. And people with kids have been totally screwed this entire time.
So my advice is to see it less as an indication that everyone is in denial, and more as an indication that the people you respect have adjusted to the risk calculus that gives them the most freedom for the least cost, depending on their values. This applies to the antivaxxers too, but I imagine you don’t share their values, so their risk calculus is irrelevant to you.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:08 AM on October 31, 2022 [6 favorites]
But it’s not “head in the sand” to acknowledge the massively negative effects of social isolation and disruption and make a choice to live in the world that exists. My head is not in the sand about climate change, but there’s not a whole fuck of a lot I can do about it, either. My nieces and nephews went from a year+ of remote school to basically 100% normal, back in person lives, and the effect on their moods and education has been massive. Most of my family has had COVID and recovered, and while repeat infections are rolling the dice again and again, there is so far no conclusive evidence that repeat infections are inevitably more severe.
I’ve had it once in 2.5 years, and haven’t been particularly careful the last year or so. I’m of the opinion that most people are fooling themselves about how effective masks are, and that either taking hospital-level precautions or just staying away from everyone is the only really effective mitigation (plus vaccines, of course). So that’s my random gut conclusion after rolling the dice a few hundred times.
I’m not saying this to call you out or anything, I just think if you frame it as people having their heads in the sand you have to accept that life is a series of choices about which side of the balance to have your head in the sand about. You’re of course welcome to be as cautious as you’re comfortable with (my dad is still taking strong precautions and hasn’t been infected, despite his partner traveling often to see her grandchildren) and I take precautions to visit him as safely as possible. But he’s always been a homebody; the cost/benefit is different for him. My mom’s health is worse and she’s been running around all over the place since March 2020. No rhyme or reason to it. It’s not like you have to be a total COVID ignorer to want to experience the rest of life after getting vaxxed 3-4 times. It’s a temperament thing. As an introvert, I’m aware it’s easy to judge if you weren’t that thrilled about seeing people in the first place. And people with kids have been totally screwed this entire time.
So my advice is to see it less as an indication that everyone is in denial, and more as an indication that the people you respect have adjusted to the risk calculus that gives them the most freedom for the least cost, depending on their values. This applies to the antivaxxers too, but I imagine you don’t share their values, so their risk calculus is irrelevant to you.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:08 AM on October 31, 2022 [6 favorites]
Most people I know where I am take the following path: get the vaccinations you can when you can.
Many people I know add: Wear masks when you can (eg off only for eating).
Some people add in: outside seating at restaurants, or no restaurants at all. A few higher-risk people choose to be zoom-only for everything possible and forgo travel.
So there’s still a range of behaviors, and you may find you want to be on the more conservative end. You won’t be alone if you do so.
One active suggestion— if you have only been vaccinated by the vaccines available in China, check the latest advice from the country you are moving to regarding if you should get a series of Moderna or Pfizer in addition. Early data showed the Chinese vaccines were less effective, but with variants and longer data you’ll have to find out the current recommendation. Doing something active to mitigate your risk will also help you feel better more than fretting will.
posted by nat at 10:12 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
Many people I know add: Wear masks when you can (eg off only for eating).
Some people add in: outside seating at restaurants, or no restaurants at all. A few higher-risk people choose to be zoom-only for everything possible and forgo travel.
So there’s still a range of behaviors, and you may find you want to be on the more conservative end. You won’t be alone if you do so.
One active suggestion— if you have only been vaccinated by the vaccines available in China, check the latest advice from the country you are moving to regarding if you should get a series of Moderna or Pfizer in addition. Early data showed the Chinese vaccines were less effective, but with variants and longer data you’ll have to find out the current recommendation. Doing something active to mitigate your risk will also help you feel better more than fretting will.
posted by nat at 10:12 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here's what I did:
- Decide if you want a bunch of different vaccine brands or just one. I decided to stick with just one brand because I felt a bit nervous about getting vaccinated at all (I was trying to get pregnant and there wasn't a ton of data on pregnancy + vaccines). Choosing one brand allowed me to "streamline my ruminating". Other people chose to mix brands because there's some evidence it's more effective, etc.
- Get all the vaccines / boosters on the correct schedule.
- Purchase some intense N95 headstrap masks and safety glasses to wear in high-aerosol public indoor spaces like airplanes or hospital emergency rooms - places where you're breathing recycled air with people who may not be able to choose to stay home if sick.
- Purchase some more-comfortable KN95 duckbill masks to wear in lower-risk public indoor spaces like grocery stores (where people give each other a bit more space and the air is fresher compared to a plane) and offices (where the workplace is semi-bubbled so at least if there's a covid outbreak you'll know).
- Think about your acceptable level of risk, but remember, you can always calibrate it every hour so you don't need to plan obsessively. I live in Toronto, and I am more cautious than most Torontonians. Here's my precaution list:
I always carry both an N95 and a KN95 in my purse.
I usually socialize outdoors and I don't wear a mask when I'm outdoors.
In indoor public space (like shopping), I wear a mask and avoid crowded times of day.
Occasionally I do eat in restaurants, but only during off-peak hours when they're at very low capacity.
When an indoor venue gets crowded enough that I can overhear anyone else's conversation, or smell their perfume, or pass close enough to stretch out my arm and touch them, I put on a mask and/or leave.
I let my kids socialize indoors with a small group of families and we cancel playdates if anyone has symptoms.
When I have any cold symptoms, I do a test (I get a lot of colds bc I have a kid in preschool), avoid nonessential outings, and wear a better mask, just in case it's covid.
I generally try to "be the most cautious of my friends" because then I don't worry so much about giving anyone else covid - since they're being less cautious than me, they're more likely to catch it elsewhere.
I've had covid and luckily for me it was like a short bad flu. It left me with somewhat worse asthma symptoms which I suppose counts as mild long covid. I don't want to get it again, but I'm also not terrified of it. So I'm willing to take daily precautions - but I also want to see my friends and earn money and let my kids have a social life. I think my covid response is very reasonable and I feel good about it.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:13 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
- Decide if you want a bunch of different vaccine brands or just one. I decided to stick with just one brand because I felt a bit nervous about getting vaccinated at all (I was trying to get pregnant and there wasn't a ton of data on pregnancy + vaccines). Choosing one brand allowed me to "streamline my ruminating". Other people chose to mix brands because there's some evidence it's more effective, etc.
- Get all the vaccines / boosters on the correct schedule.
- Purchase some intense N95 headstrap masks and safety glasses to wear in high-aerosol public indoor spaces like airplanes or hospital emergency rooms - places where you're breathing recycled air with people who may not be able to choose to stay home if sick.
- Purchase some more-comfortable KN95 duckbill masks to wear in lower-risk public indoor spaces like grocery stores (where people give each other a bit more space and the air is fresher compared to a plane) and offices (where the workplace is semi-bubbled so at least if there's a covid outbreak you'll know).
- Think about your acceptable level of risk, but remember, you can always calibrate it every hour so you don't need to plan obsessively. I live in Toronto, and I am more cautious than most Torontonians. Here's my precaution list:
I always carry both an N95 and a KN95 in my purse.
I usually socialize outdoors and I don't wear a mask when I'm outdoors.
In indoor public space (like shopping), I wear a mask and avoid crowded times of day.
Occasionally I do eat in restaurants, but only during off-peak hours when they're at very low capacity.
When an indoor venue gets crowded enough that I can overhear anyone else's conversation, or smell their perfume, or pass close enough to stretch out my arm and touch them, I put on a mask and/or leave.
I let my kids socialize indoors with a small group of families and we cancel playdates if anyone has symptoms.
When I have any cold symptoms, I do a test (I get a lot of colds bc I have a kid in preschool), avoid nonessential outings, and wear a better mask, just in case it's covid.
I generally try to "be the most cautious of my friends" because then I don't worry so much about giving anyone else covid - since they're being less cautious than me, they're more likely to catch it elsewhere.
I've had covid and luckily for me it was like a short bad flu. It left me with somewhat worse asthma symptoms which I suppose counts as mild long covid. I don't want to get it again, but I'm also not terrified of it. So I'm willing to take daily precautions - but I also want to see my friends and earn money and let my kids have a social life. I think my covid response is very reasonable and I feel good about it.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:13 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
+1 to not looking at long Covid data if this is stressing you out - I will look this up periodically and the data is frequently changing, and also crucially - sensational headlines do not always specify *when* the data was collected or what percentage of people were vaccinated. Some of the most scary news stories, if you followed the citations, led to studies of cases before the vaccination roll out. Likewise, the data doesn't always say (or even know!) whether that people with long COVID in their study eventually get better. Nor does it always grade symptoms in terms of severity - just whether they are present or not. I know at this point 100+ people who have had COVID (mostly my students), two people who got long COVID, only one who has not yet made a full recovery (who got COVID in September). This is not to suggest long COVID isn't a problem, but some of the news headlines I've seen definitely need a big asterisk.
Anyway, most people I know who have gotten COVID have likely gotten it from either:
-their workplace
-their kid(s)
-travel
-a crowded event
It's pretty easy to avoid the second two risks, and if you don't have a kid(s) that's a non-issue for you, whereas your workplace might be hard to predict. I'm in higher ed, which had been pretty good about masking, but this term my university shifted to "masking is an individual choice" and most individuals are choosing not to mask. I looked up the current policy in Japan and it says masking is not needed "Indoors when you can keep social distance and little conversation is being made." So it would seem worth figuring out what your workplace might look like before you move.
And then I'd have a conversation with your spouse where you figure out what risk budget you both feel comfortable with, and how you'll handle the scenario where one of you starts to want a larger risk budget than the other - as you can see searching old Asks, this has been a common source of tension in the last couple years.
posted by coffeecat at 10:39 AM on October 31, 2022 [5 favorites]
Anyway, most people I know who have gotten COVID have likely gotten it from either:
-their workplace
-their kid(s)
-travel
-a crowded event
It's pretty easy to avoid the second two risks, and if you don't have a kid(s) that's a non-issue for you, whereas your workplace might be hard to predict. I'm in higher ed, which had been pretty good about masking, but this term my university shifted to "masking is an individual choice" and most individuals are choosing not to mask. I looked up the current policy in Japan and it says masking is not needed "Indoors when you can keep social distance and little conversation is being made." So it would seem worth figuring out what your workplace might look like before you move.
And then I'd have a conversation with your spouse where you figure out what risk budget you both feel comfortable with, and how you'll handle the scenario where one of you starts to want a larger risk budget than the other - as you can see searching old Asks, this has been a common source of tension in the last couple years.
posted by coffeecat at 10:39 AM on October 31, 2022 [5 favorites]
Oh, and I'd seriously consider the weather of wherever you might move. I was in a subtropical in the spring of 2020 and while much of that time was awful, I am 100% convinced it would have been way worse if I was somewhere cold. That climate meant that even though I was in one of the hardest hit spots (in terms of per capita) in the country, I could still get out of my apartment every day to exercise and go on long walks. And I could meet friends in parks pretty much year-round back when socializing indoors seemed impossibly risky, and many restaurants offered outdoor dining, etc.
So for that reason alone, I'd pick Japan over Canada (unless you don't mind being outside in the cold). This will also make it possible for you to ease into being in a different COVID reality, since it will likely be easier to meet up with people at outdoor events/spaces.
posted by coffeecat at 10:57 AM on October 31, 2022
So for that reason alone, I'd pick Japan over Canada (unless you don't mind being outside in the cold). This will also make it possible for you to ease into being in a different COVID reality, since it will likely be easier to meet up with people at outdoor events/spaces.
posted by coffeecat at 10:57 AM on October 31, 2022
Another American (middle-aged, generally healthy) to add to the mix of different responses / levels of risk. I completely understand your anxiety around this issue. I felt it earlier in the pandemic, as I started transitioning back into doing more things in riskier places than my WFH job and heavily cautious volunteer work. And where I am now is much where you are trying to get to, and the process that many people in this thread describe: how do I balance risk against personal isolation.
The balance I/we came to is: N95 masking in metal tubes when with strangers (train, plane, bus, taxi), and not doing activities that look particularly risky unmasked (tight quarters, indoors). I also generally wear masks where it is "recommended" but not required (theatre, library, etc.). Also, vax'd, boosted, etc. Testing whenever I feel at all ill and if anyone requests that I do so to attend an event. Testing before seeing vulnerable friends or family members.
With that said, we got COVID in our household--likely from a well ventilated dinner with a friend who is very cautious and sees very few people (seriously; even with multiple long-haul flights over the last year, that is how we got it). Our cases were mild, didn't interrupt work much and no lingering effects from what we can tell. I certainly am not interested in getting it again, so despite my luck in the symptoms lotto, I'll be continuing to follow my rules above.
The thing that helped me balance my risk understanding was looking at the outcome data, as suggested by many upthread. Fewer hospitalizations, many, many fewer deaths, more vaccines and treatments available. It's not perfect. I'm not happy about it. But, in the end, we are always making adjustments to our behaviors and taking risks to live in a society and determine how we can make it work for ourselves.
posted by chiefthe at 11:41 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
The balance I/we came to is: N95 masking in metal tubes when with strangers (train, plane, bus, taxi), and not doing activities that look particularly risky unmasked (tight quarters, indoors). I also generally wear masks where it is "recommended" but not required (theatre, library, etc.). Also, vax'd, boosted, etc. Testing whenever I feel at all ill and if anyone requests that I do so to attend an event. Testing before seeing vulnerable friends or family members.
With that said, we got COVID in our household--likely from a well ventilated dinner with a friend who is very cautious and sees very few people (seriously; even with multiple long-haul flights over the last year, that is how we got it). Our cases were mild, didn't interrupt work much and no lingering effects from what we can tell. I certainly am not interested in getting it again, so despite my luck in the symptoms lotto, I'll be continuing to follow my rules above.
The thing that helped me balance my risk understanding was looking at the outcome data, as suggested by many upthread. Fewer hospitalizations, many, many fewer deaths, more vaccines and treatments available. It's not perfect. I'm not happy about it. But, in the end, we are always making adjustments to our behaviors and taking risks to live in a society and determine how we can make it work for ourselves.
posted by chiefthe at 11:41 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
every single one (all of which were quite conservative at the beginning of the pandemic and took things quite seriously) now is more or less in "head in sand" mode, so they're not really thinking about risk either...so I dunno
I am probably one of these people -- I live in NYC and have been here since before 2020, so have been on this long tortuous ride since the beginning -- and would like to just bring my perspective on this, in case it helps you understand your friends.
Broadly speaking, I'd (gently) push back and say that it's not so much that I am not thinking about risk, but that I have made my calculations as time and circumstances have changed, and personally consider the benefits of COVID-risky activity -- socializing in person, indoors dining, etc. -- to outweigh the risk from COVID at this point in time. In full disclosure, I have had COVID; I am also vaccinated 2x and boosted 2x, including with the new bivalent booster.
(I know there is a great variety of opinions about what is a reasonable risk-reward balance to take toward COVID, which is on evidence even in this thread, and I'm not trying to ignite another discussion on here. I know that many on Metafilter would disagree with my risk-reward calculus -- I'm just trying to present my perspective as one of these people that it seems like you're wondering about how they've arrived at where they are.)
I'd also say to keep in mind that I didn't arrive here all of a sudden or just decide one day that "well, I don't care anymore." It's not like I went from:
- April 2020 "masks everywhere outside the house indoors and outdoors, no socializing in person of any kind, no riding in any shared car or transit, all interaction on Zoom, once a week grocery runs at the crack of dawn"
to
- November 2022 "getting all my vaccines and boosters as soon as possible and staying home when I feel symptoms, but otherwise substantively resuming my pre-pandemic life"
in one fell swoop. (I too would be shocked at my current lifestyle if you talked to me in spring of 2020!)
But as the situation has changed gradually over the last two and a half years, with the availability of vaccines and boosters, development of better treatments, changes in infectiousness/strains, and my own mental health, I have gradually changed my own assessment of cost/benefit, risk/reward about COVID. I'm happy to discuss my logic and reasoning if asked, but given how polarizing of a subject I know it is (even among my circle of friends, who I would consider to be quite homogeneously left by US political standards) I usually don't.
posted by andrewesque at 11:41 AM on October 31, 2022 [14 favorites]
I am probably one of these people -- I live in NYC and have been here since before 2020, so have been on this long tortuous ride since the beginning -- and would like to just bring my perspective on this, in case it helps you understand your friends.
Broadly speaking, I'd (gently) push back and say that it's not so much that I am not thinking about risk, but that I have made my calculations as time and circumstances have changed, and personally consider the benefits of COVID-risky activity -- socializing in person, indoors dining, etc. -- to outweigh the risk from COVID at this point in time. In full disclosure, I have had COVID; I am also vaccinated 2x and boosted 2x, including with the new bivalent booster.
(I know there is a great variety of opinions about what is a reasonable risk-reward balance to take toward COVID, which is on evidence even in this thread, and I'm not trying to ignite another discussion on here. I know that many on Metafilter would disagree with my risk-reward calculus -- I'm just trying to present my perspective as one of these people that it seems like you're wondering about how they've arrived at where they are.)
I'd also say to keep in mind that I didn't arrive here all of a sudden or just decide one day that "well, I don't care anymore." It's not like I went from:
- April 2020 "masks everywhere outside the house indoors and outdoors, no socializing in person of any kind, no riding in any shared car or transit, all interaction on Zoom, once a week grocery runs at the crack of dawn"
to
- November 2022 "getting all my vaccines and boosters as soon as possible and staying home when I feel symptoms, but otherwise substantively resuming my pre-pandemic life"
in one fell swoop. (I too would be shocked at my current lifestyle if you talked to me in spring of 2020!)
But as the situation has changed gradually over the last two and a half years, with the availability of vaccines and boosters, development of better treatments, changes in infectiousness/strains, and my own mental health, I have gradually changed my own assessment of cost/benefit, risk/reward about COVID. I'm happy to discuss my logic and reasoning if asked, but given how polarizing of a subject I know it is (even among my circle of friends, who I would consider to be quite homogeneously left by US political standards) I usually don't.
posted by andrewesque at 11:41 AM on October 31, 2022 [14 favorites]
I live in a very liberal part of the US that is highly vaccinated and has had a lot of COVID. I was hypervigilant a.k.a. belligerent at times about masking. Now I rarely even notice if someone is masked versus unmasked!! I finally got COVID this summer while in Europe but it was light, fortunately, and not long lasting. Being vaxxed and +1 boosted definitely helped there! I rarely mask these days unless it's required or I've had a risk. The one time I shared food and drinks with a friend: they tested positive for COVID shortly therefore but I stayed well, crazy eh?! With all the new variants, I don't think immunity works like we had hoped initially but it is what it is.
In any case, I too did not think I'd be in this place right now but I'm grateful. I absolutely think of risk and care deeply about not infecting others. I basically stopped seeing family and friends and traveling for a long time when I was back in the classroom teaching as I was deathly afraid of infecting a student -- or my older parents. (Ahem, made them sick after Europe but fortunately it was mild for them too.) My life was really hard during COVID for many reasons and I'm so grateful to be past that initial hardship: I know COVID is continuing and still a huge risk but I am glad to be past that initial dark time. Life has been so hard for so many since so I try not to judge people. I want everyone to be vaccinated but at this point, unless it's someone I'm dating, I don't even ask or necessarily want to know. We are required at work so most people are, fortunately.
While I can't speak to the physical risk factors, what I can suggest is to try to not take it personally if people are masked versus unmasked these days. It doesn't mean the former is judging you; it doesn't mean the latter doesn't care. It's just been hard and these days my compassion is bigger than my fear. I know I say this from the privilege of not being immunocompromised and I understand how this situation is very unfair for people in that spot.
posted by smorgasbord at 7:57 PM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
In any case, I too did not think I'd be in this place right now but I'm grateful. I absolutely think of risk and care deeply about not infecting others. I basically stopped seeing family and friends and traveling for a long time when I was back in the classroom teaching as I was deathly afraid of infecting a student -- or my older parents. (Ahem, made them sick after Europe but fortunately it was mild for them too.) My life was really hard during COVID for many reasons and I'm so grateful to be past that initial hardship: I know COVID is continuing and still a huge risk but I am glad to be past that initial dark time. Life has been so hard for so many since so I try not to judge people. I want everyone to be vaccinated but at this point, unless it's someone I'm dating, I don't even ask or necessarily want to know. We are required at work so most people are, fortunately.
While I can't speak to the physical risk factors, what I can suggest is to try to not take it personally if people are masked versus unmasked these days. It doesn't mean the former is judging you; it doesn't mean the latter doesn't care. It's just been hard and these days my compassion is bigger than my fear. I know I say this from the privilege of not being immunocompromised and I understand how this situation is very unfair for people in that spot.
posted by smorgasbord at 7:57 PM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
NE Coast American here…I have all my vaccines/boosters, K95 mask in most group indoor situations, including on public transit and at the gym, and have traveled to Canada, Spain, and the West Coast USA over the past two years. I wear a surgical mask over my K95 in airports and on planes, and try to only eat outside when not at home (and not much if at all on planes). So far, no COVID (I had negative PCR tests every week for 18 months through work. Now I have to rely on at home-antigen tests). Go figure. I’m about to travel to London and figure my chances of catching it will be fairly high…my risk appetite for travel appears to be much higher than for normal work/life. YMMV. Good luck with your move, and try not to stress TOO much. hugs.
posted by mollymillions at 8:08 PM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mollymillions at 8:08 PM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: just want to say I've really appreciated hearing from everyone, and it's good to see people on all parts of the risk spectrum. it's helped a lot to de-catastrophize a bit
posted by wooh at 10:22 PM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by wooh at 10:22 PM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
I live in a very liberal part of the country with very high vaccine rates and (until the beginning of this year) rigorous and well-enforced mask mandates. Maybe 20% of people in public places still mask now.
I'm a registered nurse and I've worked at the bedside providing direct patient care for the entire pandemic. I'm also quite immunosuppressed from the B-cell-depleting therapy I take to manage my MS. My covid precautions over the last 2.5 years would probably be characterized by most people as 'very conservative but understandable given my level of personal risk'.
I've always known I would get covid eventually but I assumed I would get it at work because my job is far and away the most risky thing I do. Instead, I seem to have gotten covid for the first time at the beginning of October while on a backpacking trip in the Sierra Nevada backcountry (I successfully summited Mt. Whitney on 10/3 and developed my first covid symptoms on 10/7).
At this point in the US, the virus is contagious enough and widespread enough that even very stringent self-protection measures aren't reliably preventing infection. I resisted the idea of a "risk budget" at the beginning of the pandemic because it mostly seemed like a way for people to excuse their own bad behavior, but now I subscribe wholeheartedly to it. If everything I do comes with a risk of covid, I ask myself if what I'm doing is worth that risk.
Eating indoors in restaurants? Not worth the risk; I'm a pretty good cook and most restaurant food is too greasy and salty for my taste. Going to a bar? Not worth the risk; I'm old and boring anyway. Going to the movies? Not worth the risk; people behave like animals at the movies and it's too damn loud. Running errands without a mask? Not worth the risk. Wearing a mask is easy and doesn't interfere in any way with purchasing groceries or picking up a prescription. I'll mask in these settings forever and I genuinely don't understand why others find it so onerous.
On the other hand... Going to work? Worth the risk; I love my job and I have access to good PPE. Going to see live music with a mask on? Sometimes worth the risk. Visiting with my best friend and her husband in their home without masking? Worth the risk. Seeing my immediate family indoors without masking? Worth the risk. Enjoying indoor leisure activities like going to the aquarium/museum/etc. with a mask on? Worth the risk. Taking road trips to the wilderness to go backpacking? Absolutely worth the risk.
It's been years since I've seen my extended family on the opposite coast so I suspect that soon getting on an airplane will become worth the risk.
You'll develop a risk budget for yourself in a way that makes sense to you and is based on what you consider to be worth the risk.
posted by jesourie at 1:27 PM on November 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm a registered nurse and I've worked at the bedside providing direct patient care for the entire pandemic. I'm also quite immunosuppressed from the B-cell-depleting therapy I take to manage my MS. My covid precautions over the last 2.5 years would probably be characterized by most people as 'very conservative but understandable given my level of personal risk'.
I've always known I would get covid eventually but I assumed I would get it at work because my job is far and away the most risky thing I do. Instead, I seem to have gotten covid for the first time at the beginning of October while on a backpacking trip in the Sierra Nevada backcountry (I successfully summited Mt. Whitney on 10/3 and developed my first covid symptoms on 10/7).
At this point in the US, the virus is contagious enough and widespread enough that even very stringent self-protection measures aren't reliably preventing infection. I resisted the idea of a "risk budget" at the beginning of the pandemic because it mostly seemed like a way for people to excuse their own bad behavior, but now I subscribe wholeheartedly to it. If everything I do comes with a risk of covid, I ask myself if what I'm doing is worth that risk.
Eating indoors in restaurants? Not worth the risk; I'm a pretty good cook and most restaurant food is too greasy and salty for my taste. Going to a bar? Not worth the risk; I'm old and boring anyway. Going to the movies? Not worth the risk; people behave like animals at the movies and it's too damn loud. Running errands without a mask? Not worth the risk. Wearing a mask is easy and doesn't interfere in any way with purchasing groceries or picking up a prescription. I'll mask in these settings forever and I genuinely don't understand why others find it so onerous.
On the other hand... Going to work? Worth the risk; I love my job and I have access to good PPE. Going to see live music with a mask on? Sometimes worth the risk. Visiting with my best friend and her husband in their home without masking? Worth the risk. Seeing my immediate family indoors without masking? Worth the risk. Enjoying indoor leisure activities like going to the aquarium/museum/etc. with a mask on? Worth the risk. Taking road trips to the wilderness to go backpacking? Absolutely worth the risk.
It's been years since I've seen my extended family on the opposite coast so I suspect that soon getting on an airplane will become worth the risk.
You'll develop a risk budget for yourself in a way that makes sense to you and is based on what you consider to be worth the risk.
posted by jesourie at 1:27 PM on November 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
It might help to directly debunk some factual concerns that we know are almost certainly false.
The facts are that if you're vaccinated and aren't in a risk group it's overwhelmingly likely that infection feels like you got a cold or flu – which could mean you literally don't notice, or it's a mild or bad cold, or you are in bed for weeks, with likelihood forming a bell curve centered at the middle of those four outcomes. Vaccination dramatically reduces the likelihood of long covid. Reinfections appear to be common, but likelihood of hospitalization or death almost disappears on the repeats. Repeated infections don't "damage your immune system" and you should be lastingly suspicious of people who say so. We also now have effective treatments like paxlovid.
All this good news. Some of it we should have expected. It's what we hoped for, and all the evidence keeps pointing in this direction. Every month or two a study is misreported to say the opposite — there will always be a new variant, even if that doesn't matter — but if you ignore the misinformation headlines the news has been good for people who get vaccinated.
It's not literally false to feel like your first infection is "playing russian roulette", but it's most likely not. I assume you're vaccinated — if not your question should have been "how do I protect myself for the fifteen days it will take for my first jab to take effect?" I assume you would have mentioned if you belong to a risk group. If I'm right then getting covid is completely within the normal range of risks you take in your life: getting the flu, swimming in the ocean, going for a long hike in the woods, driving on a highway. It's normal to be freaked out even though your risk is low. It takes most people months to get used to the idea that it's not risky. If you're able to t might help to peruse comments like one two three four five, where several people share how they moved on from the fear.
Feelings are what they are, but I generally try to reframe what you wrote as "yes, we are all going to get covid over and over again, and the first time I'll probably be freaked out and it might be okay or it might suck for a week, but I will be fine because I quite responsibly gave my immune system plenty of warning, and the vaccines are extremely effective, and every time I get it my body will grow more efficient at defeating it, so it will very soon becomes like the other coronaviruses that we consider the common cold". It's more true than your version, and easier to live with.
posted by daveliepmann at 2:24 PM on November 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
it feels like we are all simply resigned to get covid every year, over and over again, playing russian roulette with our bodies until we inevitably get some form of long covid, which itself will only get more and more serious with repeat infection.I'm not disputing the first claim (that we'll get it over and over again), but the idea that it's more serious with each infection or that long covid is inevitable are false. These are not scenarios to worry about because that's not how it works.
The facts are that if you're vaccinated and aren't in a risk group it's overwhelmingly likely that infection feels like you got a cold or flu – which could mean you literally don't notice, or it's a mild or bad cold, or you are in bed for weeks, with likelihood forming a bell curve centered at the middle of those four outcomes. Vaccination dramatically reduces the likelihood of long covid. Reinfections appear to be common, but likelihood of hospitalization or death almost disappears on the repeats. Repeated infections don't "damage your immune system" and you should be lastingly suspicious of people who say so. We also now have effective treatments like paxlovid.
All this good news. Some of it we should have expected. It's what we hoped for, and all the evidence keeps pointing in this direction. Every month or two a study is misreported to say the opposite — there will always be a new variant, even if that doesn't matter — but if you ignore the misinformation headlines the news has been good for people who get vaccinated.
It's not literally false to feel like your first infection is "playing russian roulette", but it's most likely not. I assume you're vaccinated — if not your question should have been "how do I protect myself for the fifteen days it will take for my first jab to take effect?" I assume you would have mentioned if you belong to a risk group. If I'm right then getting covid is completely within the normal range of risks you take in your life: getting the flu, swimming in the ocean, going for a long hike in the woods, driving on a highway. It's normal to be freaked out even though your risk is low. It takes most people months to get used to the idea that it's not risky. If you're able to t might help to peruse comments like one two three four five, where several people share how they moved on from the fear.
Feelings are what they are, but I generally try to reframe what you wrote as "yes, we are all going to get covid over and over again, and the first time I'll probably be freaked out and it might be okay or it might suck for a week, but I will be fine because I quite responsibly gave my immune system plenty of warning, and the vaccines are extremely effective, and every time I get it my body will grow more efficient at defeating it, so it will very soon becomes like the other coronaviruses that we consider the common cold". It's more true than your version, and easier to live with.
posted by daveliepmann at 2:24 PM on November 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
I spent much of the pandemic in New Zealand and WA, which also had zero-covid policies at the time. Flying back to anything -goes Los Angeles in July 2021 was a real culture shock, and we were honestly pretty afraid for a while.
But it's been over a year now and we still haven't gotten COVID and I'm a lot less tense. We mask in shops, don't eat out, mostly work from home. We had a social life (mostly outdoors but still social) until my mom got very ill which has required us to restrict ourselves more. If you go to Japan you have the advantage of being somewhere that masks are more frequently worn.
One thing no one else has mentioned: I think in China you can only get Sinovac, which is not as effective as Moderna, Pfizer or Astra-Zeneca. Get vaxxed again as soon as you are in a country with those options.
posted by rednikki at 6:38 PM on November 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
But it's been over a year now and we still haven't gotten COVID and I'm a lot less tense. We mask in shops, don't eat out, mostly work from home. We had a social life (mostly outdoors but still social) until my mom got very ill which has required us to restrict ourselves more. If you go to Japan you have the advantage of being somewhere that masks are more frequently worn.
One thing no one else has mentioned: I think in China you can only get Sinovac, which is not as effective as Moderna, Pfizer or Astra-Zeneca. Get vaxxed again as soon as you are in a country with those options.
posted by rednikki at 6:38 PM on November 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you're open to book recommendations, the recent book The Future is Disabled: Prophecies, Love Notes, and Mourning Songs might help you think about the risks and ramifications of getting Long COVID. The author, Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarashima, who uses she/they pronouns, is a Disability Justice activist who lives in the United States. Because she is immunocompromised, she has been taking great care to protect herself throughout the pandemic. I found that their perspective on these issues was really helpful to me in thinking about what the COVID future may hold.
posted by spiderbeforesunset at 9:05 PM on November 1, 2022
posted by spiderbeforesunset at 9:05 PM on November 1, 2022
Response by poster: The vaccine is definitely a big point of consternation for me. I have 3 shots of the chinese vaccine, but of course have little faith in them. My current plan is once I am definitely going to move, go to Macau, get the shot, then hole up in the cheapest (not awful) place I can find for two weeks, and then fly to Japan. But I don't know. I will have to see what the situation is like. I could fly straight to Japan and then get the shot and hole up there, but I'm worried that there will be way too many exposure vectors in between. I can control them a lot more on the Chinese side but I dunno. It's a solvable problem but is definitely a continuing point of consternation. The Chinese take on things like vaccines are of course part of the reason why I know I need to leave. Though I guess I'm digressing.
Again, thank everyone very much. It continues to be extremely helpful.
posted by wooh at 10:20 PM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Again, thank everyone very much. It continues to be extremely helpful.
posted by wooh at 10:20 PM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'm in my 60s, vaxxed, boosted, isolated during peak periods, went for groceries and outdoor visits in less severe periods. I am not ready to get on an airplane or attend a crowded concert. I have gone to a few restaurants, and this evening am visiting with an unvaxxed friend I rarely get to see. A bit nervous, but after 2 years, I can't stay isolated from people I care about any more.
Limit your risk, spend your risk budget on what matters most.
posted by theora55 at 6:22 AM on October 31, 2022 [6 favorites]