Gift mismatch for grandchildren - how to handle?
October 25, 2022 4:09 PM Subscribe
My parents gave Child 1 $X as a gift for achieving a religious milestone. They are giving Child 2 20% of $X for the same achievement. I'm not sure how to handle this.
Obviously, a gift is a gift and you can't be upset that someone didn't give as much as you thought they might. You certainly can't tell someone you think they should have given more. But, Child 1 knows how much he received (he had to write a thank you note), and there is some chance that he or Child 2 will figure out that there is a substantial difference in the amount she is receiving. Also, my wife knows what Child 1 received and may also notice that Child 2 is receiving much less. There is a background issue here in that my wife and Child 2 think that my parents favor Child 1 in all things, including because Child 1 is a boy and Child 2 is a girl, and because my parents are old people with retrograde views on gender (and everything else), so this episode will be confirmatory of that view and upsetting. There is no change in economic circumstances that would explain the different gift amounts - the amounts are not meaningful to my parents, but are large numbers for teens.
I think my parents may have just forgotten what they gave Child 1. It was ~4 years ago, with Covid in between, and they are in their 70s. But even if this was just a simple mistake on my parents' part, I don't feel there is any good way for me to raise with them that they gave Child 1 5x more than Child 2. It will seem ungrateful and they will likely be angry/embarrassed/defensive.
One alternative would be for me to simply say nothing about it to the rest of my family. The gift money went into an account that only I monitor closely, so if I do not say anything there is a good chance nobody else will notice. My wife may ask about the amount for purposes of thank you cards (she's a list keeper), so I may not be able to avoid telling her (I'm not going to affirmatively lie about it). She will be mad at my parents about it, but this may be the path of least harm.
How crazy that giving money to grandkids can turn into hurt feelings, etc.
Obviously, a gift is a gift and you can't be upset that someone didn't give as much as you thought they might. You certainly can't tell someone you think they should have given more. But, Child 1 knows how much he received (he had to write a thank you note), and there is some chance that he or Child 2 will figure out that there is a substantial difference in the amount she is receiving. Also, my wife knows what Child 1 received and may also notice that Child 2 is receiving much less. There is a background issue here in that my wife and Child 2 think that my parents favor Child 1 in all things, including because Child 1 is a boy and Child 2 is a girl, and because my parents are old people with retrograde views on gender (and everything else), so this episode will be confirmatory of that view and upsetting. There is no change in economic circumstances that would explain the different gift amounts - the amounts are not meaningful to my parents, but are large numbers for teens.
I think my parents may have just forgotten what they gave Child 1. It was ~4 years ago, with Covid in between, and they are in their 70s. But even if this was just a simple mistake on my parents' part, I don't feel there is any good way for me to raise with them that they gave Child 1 5x more than Child 2. It will seem ungrateful and they will likely be angry/embarrassed/defensive.
One alternative would be for me to simply say nothing about it to the rest of my family. The gift money went into an account that only I monitor closely, so if I do not say anything there is a good chance nobody else will notice. My wife may ask about the amount for purposes of thank you cards (she's a list keeper), so I may not be able to avoid telling her (I'm not going to affirmatively lie about it). She will be mad at my parents about it, but this may be the path of least harm.
How crazy that giving money to grandkids can turn into hurt feelings, etc.
Your explanation of what may have happened seems sound to me. You can’t know what they were thinking. Life isn’t a balance sheet. It’s nice they gave them gifts, thank yous are going to help all feel better.
posted by waving at 4:23 PM on October 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by waving at 4:23 PM on October 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
Your kid obviously already has clocked the situation in general even if you try to hide this one instance. I wouldn't hide it because hiding things from my spouse feels really icky. Maybe your wife has a valid opinion that you may appreciate hearing if you share this with her.
Do you feel that your parents play favorites with your kids? You say that your wife and the disfavored kid see favoritism at play but do you? I would want to get on the same page as your wife about what is happening and how to handle it with your kids.
My grandmother used to do the same thing to my sister and I. One year for our birthdays one of us got a bicycle and the other one got a card with five dollars inside.
There was never any fuss made about it by my parents other than to commiserate with us about how unfair it was. They also made it clear that gifts were to be received graciously regardless of unfairness. There were enough other more serious issues with my Nana that the wonky unfair gifting thing was just another cherry on the weirdo cake. Your Nana May Vary.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 4:29 PM on October 25, 2022 [27 favorites]
Do you feel that your parents play favorites with your kids? You say that your wife and the disfavored kid see favoritism at play but do you? I would want to get on the same page as your wife about what is happening and how to handle it with your kids.
My grandmother used to do the same thing to my sister and I. One year for our birthdays one of us got a bicycle and the other one got a card with five dollars inside.
There was never any fuss made about it by my parents other than to commiserate with us about how unfair it was. They also made it clear that gifts were to be received graciously regardless of unfairness. There were enough other more serious issues with my Nana that the wonky unfair gifting thing was just another cherry on the weirdo cake. Your Nana May Vary.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 4:29 PM on October 25, 2022 [27 favorites]
It's nice to reduce harem mmmmm and not search for offense.
Just for a point of view, I feel uncomfortable thinking of your wife, seeing/feeling/believing that your parents are maybe being deeply sexist to her children, and watching you pretend that there's nothing worth having an awkward conversation over.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:30 PM on October 25, 2022 [84 favorites]
Just for a point of view, I feel uncomfortable thinking of your wife, seeing/feeling/believing that your parents are maybe being deeply sexist to her children, and watching you pretend that there's nothing worth having an awkward conversation over.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:30 PM on October 25, 2022 [84 favorites]
I think there are a lot of ways you could approach this but here's what I'd do.
My parents and I are very direct about money so I'd ask them; however, they're very big on being equal or at least fair so it would have been a discussion even before the check was cut. If they were limited financially -- and they have, indeed, felt inflation and the impending recession, they'd explain why they had to give less. But apparently this directness isn't your family and that's OK too.
I'd definitely tell your wife because she is your teammate, and I'd definitely explore why you're even considering withholding this from her. She's smart and knows the family dynamic; she can think what she wants. But you're a team! I wouldn't say anything to anyone else. I'd match the amount your parents gave Child 1, if possible for you, and just give it to Child 2 as cash. I'd write the thank you card and hold no grudges. Maybe your parents are sexist; maybe they're cheap. Maybe they forgot; maybe things are harder for them financially but they're hoping you don't notice. You can make a big thing out of it if you'd like or treat it as nothing. All of us here can give you advice and/or say what we'd do but, ultimately, you can decide whether this is something to blow up or let slip.
posted by smorgasbord at 4:35 PM on October 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
My parents and I are very direct about money so I'd ask them; however, they're very big on being equal or at least fair so it would have been a discussion even before the check was cut. If they were limited financially -- and they have, indeed, felt inflation and the impending recession, they'd explain why they had to give less. But apparently this directness isn't your family and that's OK too.
I'd definitely tell your wife because she is your teammate, and I'd definitely explore why you're even considering withholding this from her. She's smart and knows the family dynamic; she can think what she wants. But you're a team! I wouldn't say anything to anyone else. I'd match the amount your parents gave Child 1, if possible for you, and just give it to Child 2 as cash. I'd write the thank you card and hold no grudges. Maybe your parents are sexist; maybe they're cheap. Maybe they forgot; maybe things are harder for them financially but they're hoping you don't notice. You can make a big thing out of it if you'd like or treat it as nothing. All of us here can give you advice and/or say what we'd do but, ultimately, you can decide whether this is something to blow up or let slip.
posted by smorgasbord at 4:35 PM on October 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
In your question, I hear a lot of concern about anticipating and managing other people's feelings and reactions, especially in ways that avoid any conflict, where even asking questions or talking about the feelings sound like they'd fall into that conflict territory.
I say that as someone who grew up in a family where an enormous amount of labor was spent trying to prevent anyone from feeling the reaction their actions prompted. And where asking someone about their intentions would be seen as inflammatory, as opposed to simply communicating.
Feelings happen and exist no matter what anyone's intentions - it's our actions that we have control over. And the only person's actions or feelings you have a direct hand in, are yours. Everyone is allowed to feel however they feel, because feelings always happen, regardless of rules we place on them.
I think the following:
- Any interaction between two people is a communication about their relationship. A compliment, a question, a rebuke, a reassurance, a joke, a meal, and a gift are all complex means of conveying meaning from one person to another. And we react to them because they have meaning - sometimes intentional, sometimes not. Someone cooking you an elaborate meal with meat when you're a vegetarian? Someone getting you a big thing you've long wanted, but you'd preferred to be asked about it first? And someone giving one sibling much more than another - it sounds like you know what kind of feelings would come from that.
- Kids are especially sensitive to picking up on equitable or nonequitable treatment, and it sounds like your wife and second child have named a pattern of behavior from your parents where your first child gets more or better things, and that a bunch of that discrepancy is based on practices where boys are treated better than girls. It makes sense that they'd feel that way if this monetary gift isn't a one-off.
- If this is the behavior that's happening, why wouldn't they get upset? Why wouldn't it be worth questioning behavior that tells your kids that boys should be treated better than girls?
- If it is a simple and neutral misunderstanding, then why would clearing that up quietly with your parents be so loaded? If it is in their interest to show each of your kids that they are equally valued, then surely they'd understand the symbolism and impact of that discrepancy. If they have less to give this time around, then that's a real and understandable thing that's worth talking about too.
- Sometimes conflict is unavoidable when it needs to happen. Your parents did a thing, if their actions result in questions and hurt reactions and a greater discussion, then that's what that lead to. It wasn't and isn't in your power to save someone from the responsibility of their own actions.
- Is it important to communicate to both your kids and your wife that boys and girls should be treated equitably? Or that these two kids should be treated equally? By not doing that, aren't you communicating the opposite?
- "Keeping the peace" when someone's been legitimately wronged usually means leaning on the wronged party to suck it up and be quiet, and to spare the wronging party any consequences. It is not a neutral or benign act = it VERY strongly shows your family what you think is worth fighting for. And the wronged, silenced party DEFINITELY notices and remembers that.
posted by Geameade at 4:36 PM on October 25, 2022 [102 favorites]
I say that as someone who grew up in a family where an enormous amount of labor was spent trying to prevent anyone from feeling the reaction their actions prompted. And where asking someone about their intentions would be seen as inflammatory, as opposed to simply communicating.
Feelings happen and exist no matter what anyone's intentions - it's our actions that we have control over. And the only person's actions or feelings you have a direct hand in, are yours. Everyone is allowed to feel however they feel, because feelings always happen, regardless of rules we place on them.
I think the following:
- Any interaction between two people is a communication about their relationship. A compliment, a question, a rebuke, a reassurance, a joke, a meal, and a gift are all complex means of conveying meaning from one person to another. And we react to them because they have meaning - sometimes intentional, sometimes not. Someone cooking you an elaborate meal with meat when you're a vegetarian? Someone getting you a big thing you've long wanted, but you'd preferred to be asked about it first? And someone giving one sibling much more than another - it sounds like you know what kind of feelings would come from that.
- Kids are especially sensitive to picking up on equitable or nonequitable treatment, and it sounds like your wife and second child have named a pattern of behavior from your parents where your first child gets more or better things, and that a bunch of that discrepancy is based on practices where boys are treated better than girls. It makes sense that they'd feel that way if this monetary gift isn't a one-off.
- If this is the behavior that's happening, why wouldn't they get upset? Why wouldn't it be worth questioning behavior that tells your kids that boys should be treated better than girls?
- If it is a simple and neutral misunderstanding, then why would clearing that up quietly with your parents be so loaded? If it is in their interest to show each of your kids that they are equally valued, then surely they'd understand the symbolism and impact of that discrepancy. If they have less to give this time around, then that's a real and understandable thing that's worth talking about too.
- Sometimes conflict is unavoidable when it needs to happen. Your parents did a thing, if their actions result in questions and hurt reactions and a greater discussion, then that's what that lead to. It wasn't and isn't in your power to save someone from the responsibility of their own actions.
- Is it important to communicate to both your kids and your wife that boys and girls should be treated equitably? Or that these two kids should be treated equally? By not doing that, aren't you communicating the opposite?
- "Keeping the peace" when someone's been legitimately wronged usually means leaning on the wronged party to suck it up and be quiet, and to spare the wronging party any consequences. It is not a neutral or benign act = it VERY strongly shows your family what you think is worth fighting for. And the wronged, silenced party DEFINITELY notices and remembers that.
posted by Geameade at 4:36 PM on October 25, 2022 [102 favorites]
My brother was the adored, first grandchild for two sets of grandparents. $100 to him, $20 to me? We'd each have $60, on his initiative.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:53 PM on October 25, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:53 PM on October 25, 2022 [25 favorites]
I'm a bit confused by some of your descriptions - is this a gift they are giving (have not yet given) but you know the amount, or something they already have given? When you say it's going into an account so no one may know, does that mean that the kids actually don't know how much they received (they don't get a physical check in a card), or that they might not remember? But I'm not confused by this -- when it comes to You certainly can't tell someone you think they should have given more. - IMO, if it's your parents, about what they give your kids? Heck yes, you can.
I don't know the religious ceremonies involved (or the religion), but coming from Orthodox Judaism where sooooometimes a bar mitzvah boy will read the entire torah portion, and the haftorah portion, and some of the services, plus give a speech and possibly learn a tractate of the Talmud for his big weekend, and sooooometimes a bat mitzvah girl will only give a speech for hers -- you still give them the same gift. Because it's still celebrating the same accomplishment.
So unless the money went directly into an account that no one knows about except for you, and the kids will never ever know, and you really would rather not make waves, then I absolutely would say something. You can frame it as "maybe you don't remember..." You can frame it as, "the kids are absolutely going to compare it and think it means you like X better." You can frame it as "If you really need to play favorites, we will give Child 2 the missing amount and say it's from you, because their feelings matter to us." with all the weight that implies. And then that's what you might have to do. But nobody - even grandparents - gets to play favorites with your kids. It's your job as their parent to help your parents do the right thing.
This isn't about the money. Kids need to know that there's fairness - especially if you're raising them with any kind of religious observance. Otherwise what's the message you want them to come away with?
posted by Mchelly at 4:55 PM on October 25, 2022 [21 favorites]
I don't know the religious ceremonies involved (or the religion), but coming from Orthodox Judaism where sooooometimes a bar mitzvah boy will read the entire torah portion, and the haftorah portion, and some of the services, plus give a speech and possibly learn a tractate of the Talmud for his big weekend, and sooooometimes a bat mitzvah girl will only give a speech for hers -- you still give them the same gift. Because it's still celebrating the same accomplishment.
So unless the money went directly into an account that no one knows about except for you, and the kids will never ever know, and you really would rather not make waves, then I absolutely would say something. You can frame it as "maybe you don't remember..." You can frame it as, "the kids are absolutely going to compare it and think it means you like X better." You can frame it as "If you really need to play favorites, we will give Child 2 the missing amount and say it's from you, because their feelings matter to us." with all the weight that implies. And then that's what you might have to do. But nobody - even grandparents - gets to play favorites with your kids. It's your job as their parent to help your parents do the right thing.
This isn't about the money. Kids need to know that there's fairness - especially if you're raising them with any kind of religious observance. Otherwise what's the message you want them to come away with?
posted by Mchelly at 4:55 PM on October 25, 2022 [21 favorites]
Talk to your wife and come up with a plan together for how you'll address it with the kids if they remember/ask about the difference. This isn't one you should decide about on your own without a united parenting front.
Don't bring it up with your parents. Do talk over with your wife the idea of having a more general discussion with your parents about their sexist favoritism at all, but don't make it about financial gifts, but rather the overall pattern. (And don't do it before the milestone. An even worse scenario than the one you have, is the one where your parents flounce off and decide to give kid #2 nothing.)
For what it's worth, I do recommend talking with the kids about the favoritism more generally. I absolutely knew I was the disfavored grandchild growing up (because I was a stepchild) but no one ever talked about it so I felt like maybe it was normal or I was too sensitive or just imagining things. I think it would have helped so much if my parents had even once said we see this, it's unfair, it's their own weird old fashioned ideas about family and not your fault, and we're sorry they're like this.
posted by Stacey at 5:12 PM on October 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
Don't bring it up with your parents. Do talk over with your wife the idea of having a more general discussion with your parents about their sexist favoritism at all, but don't make it about financial gifts, but rather the overall pattern. (And don't do it before the milestone. An even worse scenario than the one you have, is the one where your parents flounce off and decide to give kid #2 nothing.)
For what it's worth, I do recommend talking with the kids about the favoritism more generally. I absolutely knew I was the disfavored grandchild growing up (because I was a stepchild) but no one ever talked about it so I felt like maybe it was normal or I was too sensitive or just imagining things. I think it would have helped so much if my parents had even once said we see this, it's unfair, it's their own weird old fashioned ideas about family and not your fault, and we're sorry they're like this.
posted by Stacey at 5:12 PM on October 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
Your parents need to understand, however you can explain it to them, that their favoritism has not gone un-noticed and that it will have long-term consequences.
My father's parents clearly favored the male grandchildren, and I was very well aware of it. My relationship with those grandparents was nearly non-existent from the time I had any choice in what I did with my time to their deaths. They didn't want anything to do with me, so that is what they got.
Your daughter would be very well-justified in making a similar choice. Their behavior and choices will inform her feelings and willingness to spend time or help in the future when she is in charge of her own choices.
They can choose their behavior now, and maybe repair the relationship, depending on how long this has gone on already. But it's up to them to be better, it's not up to you to lie to yourself or your family about their observable behavior.
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:23 PM on October 25, 2022 [23 favorites]
My father's parents clearly favored the male grandchildren, and I was very well aware of it. My relationship with those grandparents was nearly non-existent from the time I had any choice in what I did with my time to their deaths. They didn't want anything to do with me, so that is what they got.
Your daughter would be very well-justified in making a similar choice. Their behavior and choices will inform her feelings and willingness to spend time or help in the future when she is in charge of her own choices.
They can choose their behavior now, and maybe repair the relationship, depending on how long this has gone on already. But it's up to them to be better, it's not up to you to lie to yourself or your family about their observable behavior.
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:23 PM on October 25, 2022 [23 favorites]
Do YOU want your children to be treated equitably (and I'm assuming the answer is yes)? Then here's what I would do.
Tell your parents directly that you expect (barring extraordinary circumstances) that your children are given gifts of equal monetary value. If they cannot abide by that rule, then they can forgo gift giving altogether as gifts are a nice to have, not a must have.
If they cannot agree to your rules, remove the amount of money from Child 1's account and return it your parents. Replace Child 1's money with your own funds and give Child 2 the same amount.
If you cannot afford to replace the funds and give the same amount to Child 2, then simply return the money, explain the situation to both kids so they know that you have their backs and care that they are treated fairly (a pretty important gift IMO) and try to get them both something meaningful that you can afford.
posted by brookeb at 5:46 PM on October 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
Tell your parents directly that you expect (barring extraordinary circumstances) that your children are given gifts of equal monetary value. If they cannot abide by that rule, then they can forgo gift giving altogether as gifts are a nice to have, not a must have.
If they cannot agree to your rules, remove the amount of money from Child 1's account and return it your parents. Replace Child 1's money with your own funds and give Child 2 the same amount.
If you cannot afford to replace the funds and give the same amount to Child 2, then simply return the money, explain the situation to both kids so they know that you have their backs and care that they are treated fairly (a pretty important gift IMO) and try to get them both something meaningful that you can afford.
posted by brookeb at 5:46 PM on October 25, 2022 [11 favorites]
I think your daughter's relationship with your son is the important one, more than the grandchild-and-grandparent or even spouse/spouse? (And, please, get on the same page as your wife, you know your parents have been sowing discontent for over a decade.)
Ideally, you're bringing up your children to think of themselves as a team, not as rivals. All six of you (as well as the families they will make later) will reap the rewards of their friendship. Moreover, they'll be relying on one another long after their elders are gone -- make it easier on them, starting now.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:49 PM on October 25, 2022 [27 favorites]
Ideally, you're bringing up your children to think of themselves as a team, not as rivals. All six of you (as well as the families they will make later) will reap the rewards of their friendship. Moreover, they'll be relying on one another long after their elders are gone -- make it easier on them, starting now.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:49 PM on October 25, 2022 [27 favorites]
I would just say thank you and move on.
posted by tiburon at 5:59 PM on October 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by tiburon at 5:59 PM on October 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hi Mom and Dad, thank you so much for the generosity you show to the kids. I wanted to speak with you about the gifts.
It's really important to us that our children know that they are both equally loved and valued, and one way we try to ensure that is by giving them equal gifts. For this milestone, you kindly gave Son $100 and are now kindly giving Daughter $20. From our perspective, any gift is appreciated and we're grateful you want to give them gifts at all. In order that the children feel equal, we are going to replace the cheque you put into Daughter's envelope with $100 cash. I wanted to let you know so there would be no confusion if it comes up in conversation or a thank-you note.
In future, we're hoping you can give the children gifts that are equal, even if that means a smaller amount. It's also ok if you prefer not to give gifts at all - truly, time with you is the main thing we care about. As long as the treatment of both children is the same, anything goes. The message that they get from equality is the most important thing.
I'd be happy to talk more about this if you like. Thank you again for the relationship you've nurtured with the children - we value the time we spend with you so much and we're looking forward to seeing you next weekend!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:01 PM on October 25, 2022 [53 favorites]
It's really important to us that our children know that they are both equally loved and valued, and one way we try to ensure that is by giving them equal gifts. For this milestone, you kindly gave Son $100 and are now kindly giving Daughter $20. From our perspective, any gift is appreciated and we're grateful you want to give them gifts at all. In order that the children feel equal, we are going to replace the cheque you put into Daughter's envelope with $100 cash. I wanted to let you know so there would be no confusion if it comes up in conversation or a thank-you note.
In future, we're hoping you can give the children gifts that are equal, even if that means a smaller amount. It's also ok if you prefer not to give gifts at all - truly, time with you is the main thing we care about. As long as the treatment of both children is the same, anything goes. The message that they get from equality is the most important thing.
I'd be happy to talk more about this if you like. Thank you again for the relationship you've nurtured with the children - we value the time we spend with you so much and we're looking forward to seeing you next weekend!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:01 PM on October 25, 2022 [53 favorites]
You don't mention the magnitude of $X, but if it's big, is it possible that your parents are in a significantly different financial situation now than four years ago?
Edit: you addressed this, feel free to ignore me.
posted by NormieP at 6:42 PM on October 25, 2022
Edit: you addressed this, feel free to ignore me.
posted by NormieP at 6:42 PM on October 25, 2022
My parents gave a gift to one of my kids for a birthday ($500), and didn't to my second child for the same age birthday (the money is deposited into an account that will pay for schooling).
I emailed my parents and asked if they were planning to contribute the same for both kids, or if they were no longer planning to contribute towards either of their educations. Either was fine. I just needed to know for planning purposes.
The new cheque arrived within a week.
I felt awkward about writing the email, because it brought up lots of times when I was a kid that there was some reason for my sibling to get more/better than me. But I think that treating my kids equally/fairly is important. And I am trying to be more like the parent I wish I had.
posted by Sauter Vaguely at 6:53 PM on October 25, 2022 [20 favorites]
I emailed my parents and asked if they were planning to contribute the same for both kids, or if they were no longer planning to contribute towards either of their educations. Either was fine. I just needed to know for planning purposes.
The new cheque arrived within a week.
I felt awkward about writing the email, because it brought up lots of times when I was a kid that there was some reason for my sibling to get more/better than me. But I think that treating my kids equally/fairly is important. And I am trying to be more like the parent I wish I had.
posted by Sauter Vaguely at 6:53 PM on October 25, 2022 [20 favorites]
My grandmother did this sort of thing to me and my brother when we were kids, and my parents were really amazing about stopping it. They were very clear with her that any big presents she gave him she either had to give them to both of us, or also give me the same. This showed her that she wasn't getting away with it, they knew she was favouring him. It also showed the two of us that we were both valued, and equally important to them. If they hadn't taken a stand to protect me, I absolutely would have noticed. I probably would have grown up with less confidence, and may not have been as close to my brother. Instead I grew up knowing that there are unfair people in the world, but that my parents and brother would always have my back. Which is huge. It's the sort of thing that can help build a personality.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 6:56 PM on October 25, 2022 [43 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 6:56 PM on October 25, 2022 [43 favorites]
Since you think it might be sexist favoritism, you should address it.
Since you think it might be a simple oversight, you should not show offense.
“Hi, Mom, Dad. We got the gift, thank you. I wanted to ask, though, is there a reason boy-child got X and girl-child got X/5? “
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:13 PM on October 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
Since you think it might be a simple oversight, you should not show offense.
“Hi, Mom, Dad. We got the gift, thank you. I wanted to ask, though, is there a reason boy-child got X and girl-child got X/5? “
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:13 PM on October 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
Yeah I would absolutely raise this, but assuming an oversight rather than as an intended slight. Play it as if you cannot simply imagine that they would favour one child over the other. Maybe it IS a mistake and can be sorted out with no hurt feelings.
If it's intentional, it should be communicated that it's not acceptable to treat your children this way - correct the behaviour, as gently but firmly as you can. Maybe this means no more gifts of this sort, but at least this stops the insinuation that it is okay for people who are supposed to love us to treat us differently (especially based on our sex!) and for (at least one of) our parents to stand idly by while that happens.
This may be uncomfortable for you and may risk disharmony with your parents, but ask yourself: what has a more lasting emotional impact? You, an adult and a parent, raising this with your own adult parents or for your kid to have to learn definitively that her grandparents value her less than her brother - and potentially that you do too, as you will not stick up for her when it's called for?
posted by urbanlenny at 7:57 PM on October 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
If it's intentional, it should be communicated that it's not acceptable to treat your children this way - correct the behaviour, as gently but firmly as you can. Maybe this means no more gifts of this sort, but at least this stops the insinuation that it is okay for people who are supposed to love us to treat us differently (especially based on our sex!) and for (at least one of) our parents to stand idly by while that happens.
This may be uncomfortable for you and may risk disharmony with your parents, but ask yourself: what has a more lasting emotional impact? You, an adult and a parent, raising this with your own adult parents or for your kid to have to learn definitively that her grandparents value her less than her brother - and potentially that you do too, as you will not stick up for her when it's called for?
posted by urbanlenny at 7:57 PM on October 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
Do you want to raise your boy into a shitty dude bro? Because this is how you get shitty dude bros.
I'd absolutely raise this question with your wife first, to get her on board, and then with grandparents.
And then either make this ok for Child 2 (eg. by giving her the same amount as what Child 1 got) so she doesn't have to learn about the grandparents' attitude, or by explicitly addressing the wrongfulness of grandparents' actions.
Btw I have two kids, a boy and a girl, and such behavior toward my kids would absolutely get me to cut off my parents or inlaws, especially if they interacted with kids more than, say, 1x or 2x per year. This stuff is toxic. Any kind of favoritism would be, but the gender thing makes it even more so.
posted by gakiko at 11:22 PM on October 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
I'd absolutely raise this question with your wife first, to get her on board, and then with grandparents.
And then either make this ok for Child 2 (eg. by giving her the same amount as what Child 1 got) so she doesn't have to learn about the grandparents' attitude, or by explicitly addressing the wrongfulness of grandparents' actions.
Btw I have two kids, a boy and a girl, and such behavior toward my kids would absolutely get me to cut off my parents or inlaws, especially if they interacted with kids more than, say, 1x or 2x per year. This stuff is toxic. Any kind of favoritism would be, but the gender thing makes it even more so.
posted by gakiko at 11:22 PM on October 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
My grandparents used to save up spare change to give to their grandchildren. Part of the fun for the kids was in counting up the money in the jar. Once when I was about 10, they had saved up in separate jars, one jar for the two girls, and one jar for the only boy. There was twice as much in the jar for the boy as there was in the jar for the girls. My mother split the money evenly between the three children. I don't think my grandparents had deliberately intended this, but they did see boys as more important than girls and realising this affected my relationship with them for the rest of their lives. I think it was fine/good that they experienced a natural consequence of their actions.
I think you have two choices.
(1) If you think your parents are fundamentally decent people, then raise it with them. Remind them of how much they had given child 1, see what their response is. Then ensure that it is put right either by them if they are willing and able, or by you. I think the only way in which the status quo is arguably acceptable is if the sums of money are very large (so you cannot even them up yourselves), your parents are in a materially worse financial situation now, and child 1's money has been spent or is otherwise inaccessible.
(2) If you are concerned that your parents will for example respond spitefully or abusively, then don't raise it with them. Make it right between your children yourself however you can. If you cannot, then you will have to tell both child 1 and 2 that you're not able to make it right at the moment but will try to do what you can. Also, probably rethink whether it's benefitting anyone to spend time with people whose mis-steps cannot even be raised.
Either way, you cannot hide from your wife or your children that your parents have old-fashioned and unfair views on the value of men and women. If it's not caused this situation it will inevitably cause another. People reap what they sow. If you do nothing about this because you prioritise protecting your parents sensibilities above parenting your children, that will include you too.
posted by plonkee at 1:43 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think you have two choices.
(1) If you think your parents are fundamentally decent people, then raise it with them. Remind them of how much they had given child 1, see what their response is. Then ensure that it is put right either by them if they are willing and able, or by you. I think the only way in which the status quo is arguably acceptable is if the sums of money are very large (so you cannot even them up yourselves), your parents are in a materially worse financial situation now, and child 1's money has been spent or is otherwise inaccessible.
(2) If you are concerned that your parents will for example respond spitefully or abusively, then don't raise it with them. Make it right between your children yourself however you can. If you cannot, then you will have to tell both child 1 and 2 that you're not able to make it right at the moment but will try to do what you can. Also, probably rethink whether it's benefitting anyone to spend time with people whose mis-steps cannot even be raised.
Either way, you cannot hide from your wife or your children that your parents have old-fashioned and unfair views on the value of men and women. If it's not caused this situation it will inevitably cause another. People reap what they sow. If you do nothing about this because you prioritise protecting your parents sensibilities above parenting your children, that will include you too.
posted by plonkee at 1:43 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Whatever you do, don't hide this from your wife. Tell her now and align with her about how to handle it.
posted by emd3737 at 2:05 AM on October 26, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by emd3737 at 2:05 AM on October 26, 2022 [10 favorites]
The thing is, hiding it from your wife and kids tells them that you think this favouritism is ok. And that is way more damaging to your kids (and marriage!) than anything your parents could do.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:50 AM on October 26, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by Omnomnom at 2:50 AM on October 26, 2022 [24 favorites]
Your job as a parent is to advocate for your children. (You may have a different job as the child of your own parents, but your job to Advocate for Your Children comes first.)
Personally, I'd make sure Child #2 got the same as #1 by depositing the difference into Child 2's account. Or you could take half the difference from Child 1's account. (Is that fair? No, but patriarchy costs us all and remediation isn't free, and this is an important teachable moment for both of your children.)
Child 2 can state the amount or not state the amount on the thank you card. If your parents call to say they gave less, you then explain that you insist the children be treated equally so you made up the difference.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:30 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Personally, I'd make sure Child #2 got the same as #1 by depositing the difference into Child 2's account. Or you could take half the difference from Child 1's account. (Is that fair? No, but patriarchy costs us all and remediation isn't free, and this is an important teachable moment for both of your children.)
Child 2 can state the amount or not state the amount on the thank you card. If your parents call to say they gave less, you then explain that you insist the children be treated equally so you made up the difference.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:30 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
There is a background issue here in that my wife and Child 2 think that my parents favor Child 1 in all things, including because Child 1 is a boy and Child 2 is a girl, and because my parents are old people with retrograde views on gender (and everything else), so this episode will be confirmatory of that view and upsetting.
This is not a background issue for your wife or daughter. This is your parents treating women as second class. You should say something to your parents to show your daughter that she is not less than her brother. Your actions are currently teaching her how the world should treat her. Is this the lesson you want her to learn?
posted by kellyblah at 4:56 AM on October 26, 2022 [26 favorites]
This is not a background issue for your wife or daughter. This is your parents treating women as second class. You should say something to your parents to show your daughter that she is not less than her brother. Your actions are currently teaching her how the world should treat her. Is this the lesson you want her to learn?
posted by kellyblah at 4:56 AM on October 26, 2022 [26 favorites]
When you start a family your loyalty shifts to them. I'm worried for your wife as it sounds like you don't believe her concerns about your parents. Generally speaking, the more privileged person doesn't see the discrimination that exists for those less privileged. Which means logic says you should take her word for it on this and give the benefit of the doubt.
You need to stand up for your family. You can frame it in a more avoidant or passive way but it will hurt your wife and child to go on thinking that you didn't stand up for them somehow. That means it will hurt your family.
I would resent my partner so hard if I saw sexism in his parents and he did nothing about it. I would resent him even more for favoring his parents over his wife and daughter because he didn't want the parents to feel "angry/embarrassed/defensive."
posted by crunchy potato at 5:30 AM on October 26, 2022 [15 favorites]
You need to stand up for your family. You can frame it in a more avoidant or passive way but it will hurt your wife and child to go on thinking that you didn't stand up for them somehow. That means it will hurt your family.
I would resent my partner so hard if I saw sexism in his parents and he did nothing about it. I would resent him even more for favoring his parents over his wife and daughter because he didn't want the parents to feel "angry/embarrassed/defensive."
posted by crunchy potato at 5:30 AM on October 26, 2022 [15 favorites]
Generally speaking, as they age, your parents probably need you far more than you need them. Maybe framing things this way will help you find the courage to "push it" and stick up for your kids. It's OK to risk pissing your folks off, they'll be back. Ideally, relationships are based on love, trust, mutual respect etc, but if you can't count on appeals to reason and fairness, who has the upper hand comes into play. It might be you!
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:06 AM on October 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:06 AM on October 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think your wife is right in seeing discrimination here. For me, you have a choice as to whether or not you bring this particular incident up with your parents. (It is kind of fraught because it concerns a gift, and asking questions about gifts is widely considered to be rude. Which is why there is so much rude passive-aggressive gift-giving in this world, but I digress.) But you don't have a choice about letting them disrespect your kids. Let your kids know that this kind of favoritism does not fly in your house. If your parents show favoritism to your kids' faces, counter, confront, take every opportunity to convey that you value your kids equally.
If you feel that your parents' attitudes are intractable, at least let your kids know you disagree with them.
posted by BibiRose at 6:52 AM on October 26, 2022
If you feel that your parents' attitudes are intractable, at least let your kids know you disagree with them.
posted by BibiRose at 6:52 AM on October 26, 2022
Your parents need to understand, however you can explain it to them, that their favoritism has not gone un-noticed and that it will have long-term consequences.
THIS. I am in the camp of spelling it out to them very carefully. This may not change their behavior or maybe only in the really obvious ways. The kids will notice favoritism. This will absolutely impact their relationship with their grandparents, and not in a good way. If they want to have a close, loving relationship with the kids long-term, they need to change now.
My in-laws are like your parents, both with my son and daughter, but then there is also the favorite family of grandchildren (of 3 sets). My kids began to notice early. My husband had many discussions over the years, but behaviors really did not change. My now adult children do not have much of a relationship with them, certainly nothing like the favorited grandchildren. They do things out of obligation and not out of love or interest in them. My in-laws still don't get it. Thankfully, my mother was the complete opposite so my kids did had a completely different relationship with her. Ultimately, your parents will lose out if they continue this path.
posted by maxg94 at 7:25 AM on October 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
THIS. I am in the camp of spelling it out to them very carefully. This may not change their behavior or maybe only in the really obvious ways. The kids will notice favoritism. This will absolutely impact their relationship with their grandparents, and not in a good way. If they want to have a close, loving relationship with the kids long-term, they need to change now.
My in-laws are like your parents, both with my son and daughter, but then there is also the favorite family of grandchildren (of 3 sets). My kids began to notice early. My husband had many discussions over the years, but behaviors really did not change. My now adult children do not have much of a relationship with them, certainly nothing like the favorited grandchildren. They do things out of obligation and not out of love or interest in them. My in-laws still don't get it. Thankfully, my mother was the complete opposite so my kids did had a completely different relationship with her. Ultimately, your parents will lose out if they continue this path.
posted by maxg94 at 7:25 AM on October 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
Since you admit that it’s entirely possible that they just forgot how much they gave Child 1, I would just thank them for the gift and move on. If you can make up the difference yourself to give to kid 2, all the better. I don’t think it sets a great example for your kids to make a big drama about this or ask your elderly parents for more. I get why it bugs you, but don’t teach your kids that they are entitled to generous cash gifts.
posted by cakelite at 7:37 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cakelite at 7:37 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
And don't get me wrong, if this is indeed a sexism thing, that is very shitty. But I don't think making an issue about this is necessarily the best way to teach your kid about standing up against sexism. A salary is something a person is entitled to, and they deserve to be paid the same amount for the same amount of work as anyone else, regardless of their gender. This is an important thing to teach your kid! But gifts are not the same at all, they are completely up to the discretion of the giver. This is also an important thing for your kid to learn. You should teach your kid to always advocate for equal pay, but please don't teach them that it's appropriate to try advocating for better presents. If you really think your parents deliberately short your younger kid because of sexism, maybe you should take a deeper look at how much you want them to be involved in your kids' lives.
posted by cakelite at 7:55 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cakelite at 7:55 AM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Gifts say more than their financial value. It's not about "advocating for better presents" it's about offering the grandparents the opportunity to say something better with their gift. And should they fail to do that, it's about the parents saying something important about equality, fairness and the relative value of different members of their family. Not everything is about legal and contractual entitlement. As things stand what Child 2 could be getting is a small cash sum and the understanding that their grandparents don't see them as important as Child 1 and that their parent doesn't think that matters enough to rock the boat. That's not a gift I'd be rushing to say thank you for.
posted by plonkee at 8:10 AM on October 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 8:10 AM on October 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
Assuming good faith on everyone's part, if I were the grandparent in this scenario, I'd appreciate if my son quietly told me that I accidentally gave the second grandkid less money. I'd be embarrassed, but I'd be even more embarrassed for it to get to the grandkids instead of it being quietly handled by the adults, because I would never want the grandkids to feel like I loved one more than the other.
The fact that you find this so fraught indicates there's something bigger going on with your parents, and you need to get on the same page with your spouse for a strategy to deal with it because you're probably going to see variations of this problem come up over and over again.
posted by airmail at 10:57 AM on October 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
The fact that you find this so fraught indicates there's something bigger going on with your parents, and you need to get on the same page with your spouse for a strategy to deal with it because you're probably going to see variations of this problem come up over and over again.
posted by airmail at 10:57 AM on October 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
Something very similar was discussed here: Carolyn Hax: Mom tries to unwrap the inequity of gift-giving, and here: Carolyn Hax: What to do when grandma’s giving expensive gifts to only one grandchild.
posted by tiamat at 1:33 PM on October 26, 2022
posted by tiamat at 1:33 PM on October 26, 2022
Setting aside the issue of whether your parents are sexist (and whether it's ok to just write it off as generational without any effort to educate them), my standard approach when I don't know how someone will react or I'm trying to call them on some shit nicely is to play dumb basically. I claim confusion. "Hey I'm really confused because you gave x $a and gave y $b. Did you mean to do that?"
Now they have to either own their unfairness directly or have a socially gracious way to recognize it isn't a welcome approach and offer a correction.
posted by crunchy potato at 1:33 PM on October 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
Now they have to either own their unfairness directly or have a socially gracious way to recognize it isn't a welcome approach and offer a correction.
posted by crunchy potato at 1:33 PM on October 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
If all else fails, Kid 2 can write a thank you note saying:
Dear Grandma and Grandpa,
Thank you so much for the gift of $x. I’m really proud of the work I did to reach this milestone. Kid 1 recently informed me that he received a gift from you of $y. As you know, times have changed and women are now paid 83% of of every dollar paid to a man, not 20%.
I’m looking forward to receiving your counter offer check that allows your rate to reach at least the established market rate, if not complete parity.
Love, your granddaughter,
Kid 2
Never to young to learn assertive negotiation.
posted by donut_princess at 3:08 PM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Dear Grandma and Grandpa,
Thank you so much for the gift of $x. I’m really proud of the work I did to reach this milestone. Kid 1 recently informed me that he received a gift from you of $y. As you know, times have changed and women are now paid 83% of of every dollar paid to a man, not 20%.
I’m looking forward to receiving your counter offer check that allows your rate to reach at least the established market rate, if not complete parity.
Love, your granddaughter,
Kid 2
Never to young to learn assertive negotiation.
posted by donut_princess at 3:08 PM on October 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
>There is a background issue here in that my wife and Child 2 think that my parents favor Child 1 in all things, including because Child 1 is a boy and Child 2 is a girl, ... so this episode will be confirmatory of [their??] view and upsetting [to them??].
What do YOU think? Does this incident confirm YOUR view? Is it upsetting TO YOU?
Do you, *just you*, on your own, care about the inequity in these gifts? Do you care about the inequity in the way your wife and Child 2 are being treated by your parents? Does it bother you or upset you at all that your wife and your child are being harmed by your parents?
It does not seem like you care at all about any of this. From your post it seems as if all you care about is to avoid conflict. You go to extreme lengths to disavow your role and your responsibility in any of this, to the extent that you did not even specify that these are YOUR parents (and not your wife's parents) behaving so atrociously towards your wife and child. You are working very hard to sidestep even the mildest words that might hint at your responsibility to address this mistreatment of your wife and child by your parents... words like "MY parents" or "WE are upset". You are removing yourself from this situation because your overwhelming main concern is that you do not wish to be involved in this conflict. You will do anything to maintain your state of denial that you have a responsibility here, indeed, you have the primary (damn near ONLY) responsibility here.
Child 2 and your wife have a dad/husband problem, not a grandparent/in-law problem.
posted by MiraK at 5:18 AM on October 27, 2022 [12 favorites]
What do YOU think? Does this incident confirm YOUR view? Is it upsetting TO YOU?
Do you, *just you*, on your own, care about the inequity in these gifts? Do you care about the inequity in the way your wife and Child 2 are being treated by your parents? Does it bother you or upset you at all that your wife and your child are being harmed by your parents?
It does not seem like you care at all about any of this. From your post it seems as if all you care about is to avoid conflict. You go to extreme lengths to disavow your role and your responsibility in any of this, to the extent that you did not even specify that these are YOUR parents (and not your wife's parents) behaving so atrociously towards your wife and child. You are working very hard to sidestep even the mildest words that might hint at your responsibility to address this mistreatment of your wife and child by your parents... words like "MY parents" or "WE are upset". You are removing yourself from this situation because your overwhelming main concern is that you do not wish to be involved in this conflict. You will do anything to maintain your state of denial that you have a responsibility here, indeed, you have the primary (damn near ONLY) responsibility here.
Child 2 and your wife have a dad/husband problem, not a grandparent/in-law problem.
posted by MiraK at 5:18 AM on October 27, 2022 [12 favorites]
>My wife may ask about the amount for purposes of thank you cards (she's a list keeper)
May I also suggest that you start pulling your own weight and doing your own share of the list keeping and thank-you note writing? This is the equivalent of expecting your wife to wash your underwear. You are much too grown up for this. Like I said, the central theme of your post is that you are militantly avoiding doing any emotional labor that you are responsible for. This is one place you can easily start, it has no conflict hidden inside.
> I may not be able to avoid telling her (I'm not going to affirmatively lie about it)
You are affirmatively lying to your wife and your children by failing to tell them the truth. "It's not lying if they don't ask me explicitly about it and I don't tell them," is a juvenile excuse that even my teenager knows better than to use.
>She will be mad at my parents about it, but this may be the path of least harm.
Because of course you define "harm" as "someone might expect me to do something about my responsibilities". Not as "someone is treating my wife and child in a grossly sexist way." Think about what you are calling the path of least harm. Really think what harm means to you, and what it should mean. Sit with your statement, sit with what you revealed about yourself here, and sit with what you have done to your wife and child all these years. It will make you uncomfortable but you are clearly the sort of man who is desperately overdue for some discomfort.
posted by MiraK at 5:31 AM on October 27, 2022 [16 favorites]
May I also suggest that you start pulling your own weight and doing your own share of the list keeping and thank-you note writing? This is the equivalent of expecting your wife to wash your underwear. You are much too grown up for this. Like I said, the central theme of your post is that you are militantly avoiding doing any emotional labor that you are responsible for. This is one place you can easily start, it has no conflict hidden inside.
> I may not be able to avoid telling her (I'm not going to affirmatively lie about it)
You are affirmatively lying to your wife and your children by failing to tell them the truth. "It's not lying if they don't ask me explicitly about it and I don't tell them," is a juvenile excuse that even my teenager knows better than to use.
>She will be mad at my parents about it, but this may be the path of least harm.
Because of course you define "harm" as "someone might expect me to do something about my responsibilities". Not as "someone is treating my wife and child in a grossly sexist way." Think about what you are calling the path of least harm. Really think what harm means to you, and what it should mean. Sit with your statement, sit with what you revealed about yourself here, and sit with what you have done to your wife and child all these years. It will make you uncomfortable but you are clearly the sort of man who is desperately overdue for some discomfort.
posted by MiraK at 5:31 AM on October 27, 2022 [16 favorites]
My fathers parents did this to me. I would never accept the 350 now, in fact there is no amount of money that could make up for how rubbish they were. I don't miss their passing at all, nothing in my house can be attributed to them, and I am glad to only be reminded of them infrequently.
Sometimes my father seeks out a conversation about them, and I just remind him that they have no bearing on my life or interests. They are dust to me, and my children don't even know their names.
posted by zenon at 7:02 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sometimes my father seeks out a conversation about them, and I just remind him that they have no bearing on my life or interests. They are dust to me, and my children don't even know their names.
posted by zenon at 7:02 PM on October 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
There were similar incidents in my family over several generations and in some cases I was the favored kid. I always, always sided with my sibling and appreciated that my parents were honest with us about this. If they had tried to conceal it, it would have hurt a lot to find out later.
posted by notquitemaryann at 4:20 PM on October 25, 2022 [47 favorites]