Interacting with Republican family members in the era of Trump

October 21, 2022 8:27 AM

I am a bit of a black sheep in a family of conservative republicans. I’ve always been able to handle it. The last few years have made it a bit more challenging. Looking for advice and perspective

I grew up in a conservative household. I always thought of my family as good people and was content with agreeing to disagree. They are intelligent people. They weren’t radical or extreme. Fast forward to 2020. COVID hits and my family subscribes to the right wing philosophy of it not being a big deal. They live in a different state and had no issues traveling out of state and half-assing the mask protocols and not wanting to get vaccinated. One of them almost died. This was tough. I noticed that every time that we had discussions, even over simple things like the weather, politics would come up. Climate change isn’t real. Guns aren’t a problem. In fact, more guns is always the solution. Roe v Wade getting overturned isn’t a big deal, since it got sent to the states. January 6th is no big deal, but Hunter’s laptop sure is. You get the point.

I feel like the last five years have really taken a toll on us. One of my siblings is taking a break from the family and I find myself not going out of my way to talk to them or spend time with them. I’ve even started to question whether they are good people. If they were voting for Chris Christie or some other hack, it wouldn’t bother me, but they are all in on the new Republican ethos of triggering the libs and believing conspiracy theories. The AP and Reuters are radical leftists, but Breitbart just leans right. Any attempt at having a logical discussion with facts turns into deep state, NWO territory.

I can’t imagine that other families haven’t had to deal with this. As an educated, sensitive person, it is very hard to go from having a normal relationship with my family to this crazy nonsense. For my own sanity, I need to figure something out.

Has anyone out there successfully navigated this type of thing? Am I looking at this in a childish way?

posted by IWantAnswers to Human Relations (16 answers total)

My immediate family luckily didn't go off the deep end in the Trump era, but much of my extended family did. My way through it while attending a family reunion this year worked pretty well:

1. Accept the fact that there is nothing you can say that will change their minds.
2. Never bring up politics.
3. When they inevitably bring it up, provide your unvarnished opinion. When they get offended or argumentative, remind them who brought it up and ask that they talk about something else if they don't like where the conversation is going.
posted by TrialByMedia at 8:47 AM on October 21, 2022 [23 favorites]

Honestly, this may sound like a copout, but as a person married to an extremely liberal woman with an extremely Trump-y mother, we've found the WarGames Philosophy works best: the only good move is not to play.

Any attempt at having a logical discussion with facts turns into deep state, NWO territory.

Trust me: You will not change your relatives' views. You will not get them to see things from anything remotely resembling your perspective. This is a lesson my wife learned the hard way in 2020 when she tried to reason with her mother about the George Floyd protests, and ended up in tears for three days because she feared that she had lost her mother forever because of her viewpoints (she hasn't, but it's still a bit fragile). The phrase I keep coming back to is "you can't logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into", and that has proved to be true in my wife's interactions with her mother.

I hate to sound fatalist or defeatist, but the best advice I can give after watching the dynamic you describe play out over the last several years is this. Pick a list of topics that you can talk about (in our case, with the mother, it's sports, movies, and wine), and stick to those. Leave everything else aside. If they can't or won't do that, don't talk to them for a while.
posted by pdb at 8:47 AM on October 21, 2022 [20 favorites]

I will direct you to r/Qanoncasualties for support and other people also going through it.

For me, it's the obsessive need to return conversationally to this stuff over and over that draws a line between "I may have to accept this person does not have a great character" and "I'm uncomfortable indulging their addiction". (Well, I personally think they are bad people and have cut off the ones in my world, I'm not interested in a relationship there.) I think if you want to continue to engage you either have to set and follow through on serious boundaries - which is going to mean ending conversations or walk away over and over again, or literally leaving if they won't stop - or just start countering their shit with your exciting insights into the moon being made of cheese, all dolls being haunted, and the coming horrors because They want to take away all our forks.

I'm sorry, this is really hard. It sucks to lose people to this, and it sucks knowing that you may have enough leverage to manipulate them into getting treatment for their anxiety and finding a new hobby, but you've already seen who they are underneath and you can't unsee that.

Steven Hassan is considered one of the current experts in cults generally and Qanon specifically (which, by nature of being a decentralized online cult and network of conspiracy theories, doesn't have every earmark of normal cults - but it's surprisingly close all the same including the weird/illegal sex stuff). He doesn't have a fix, but he helps explain the mindset and where you may find ways to make progress with your family.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:51 AM on October 21, 2022 [14 favorites]

You are not looking at this in a childish way. You are experiencing the end-result of this type of radicalization. The terminal result of this kind of radicalization is that they will not care for, and wish pain on others (in the context of people not in their tribe).

While my own family had a host of other problems that lead me not to speak with them anymore, this was the catalyst for me going no-contact. I also went from "we disagree, but these are fundamentally 'good' people" to realizing that was no longer (or never really was?) the case. They are at best rude, but at their worst, they will want to cause pain. That was the hard line for me.

You cannot engage in discussion with these folks in good faith; they are not playing on the same field as you anymore.
posted by furnace.heart at 8:54 AM on October 21, 2022 [9 favorites]

I agree, the way to go is not to engage. But if you do engage, I recommend going at it not from a Right vs Left perspective, but from a less partisan and more righteous Right vs Constitution perspective. Don't engage on the issues, that's futile. Engage on the Constitution and demand to know just how much their views jibe with that sacred document. Of course this would take some work, knowing your Constitution, but that's the price if you choose to engage.
posted by Stuka at 8:59 AM on October 21, 2022 [3 favorites]

You're not looking at this in a childish way at all.

Our family is a bit more of a mix, but these days the people who gather most have an almost opposite dynamic - my parents, my brother's family, and me are all the raging liberal pinkos, and my (single and childless) aunt is the Trumper. My father quickly encouraged a "don't engage in politics at all" policy among us, and if it comes up he tries to change the subject. My mother and my aunt (the siblings in that relationship) once had a heart-to-heart between them about how they may disagree on politics, but they were going to try super-hard not to let that get in the way of the rest of their relationship, and try really super-hard to agree to disagree.

And that may be the way to do this for you as well; they're sure as hell not going to change your mind, and you're probably not going to change theirs, so it makes the most sense to just not have those conversations and talk about something else instead.

So then the trick becomes getting them to agree to not talk about politics. Which may be both easier and more difficult to do; they may be tempted to push on you about this, and you may have a few instances where you really push back - but if you are clear that you are pushing back about your wish not to talk about this, as opposed to pushing back about what they think, it may stand a better chance of success - because the former allows them to keep thinking what they think and just leave you alone about it. That way it's not about politics at all, it's a matter of family relations and dynamics and whether they respect your boundaries, whatever those boundaries may be. (Of course, if they are assholes who don't respect boundaries, that's a separate problem....)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:11 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]

The years since 2016 have been very hard on me, mentally and emotionally. To see parts of my family rush to openly embrace the fascism, bigotry, racism, misogyny, and grift that TFG practiced was just heartbreaking. I haven't spoken to my father since 2016, and have culled other family members as well. It hasn't been easy, but it has been necessary. I love my family (on some level), but I don't like a lot of my family, and especially during the pandemic, for my own mental health, I have had to narrow my circle exclusively to those people who affirmed and aligned with my own values. I don't know when, or even if, I will attempt to reestablish communication with my father. I certainly don't miss his presence.

I saw a tweet that really resonated with me: "You only have one family!" Yeah, you only have one appendix too, but when that fucker goes toxic on you, you don't hesitate to cut it out.
posted by xedrik at 9:13 AM on October 21, 2022 [30 favorites]

You might be interested in listening to David Mcraney or his interview (See a July 24 2022).

He has done significant research on how peoples minds truly change and gives a framework for speaking with people to understand them better and he speaks about Trumpists specifically.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:22 AM on October 21, 2022 [8 favorites]

If you do engage, I'd pick your battle, which if it was me, would be COVID. I mean, whether or not they care about Hunter Biden's laptop isn't going to change much, but whether or not they get vaccinated could be life or death, as recent events have already made clear. I would start by making it clear this comes from a place of love - you don't want them to die or have serious health complications. Then I'd ask about where they are getting there evidence from, ask them why they think the entire medical profession could possibly be in on some conspiracy, note all of the republicans who have been vaccinated (including Trump), etc. You might also try to get them to listen to "Act II" of this TAL episode, which includes such 'radicals' as Chris Christie urging people to get vaccinated.
posted by coffeecat at 9:38 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]

Generally speaking, and I say this as a skeptic and a scambuster who tried to convince many people to abandon their scam (Ponzi or Pyramid) arguing about it only make them entrench further in their beliefs.

Instead, you have be far more subtle about it... It's about "choice", and can gently prod people into accepting something because THEY WANTED IT, they'll embrace it. If they are FORCED to have it, they don't want it.

So instead of "mandate" something, offer some choices. The debate instantly shifts to which is better and which is worse, instead of "no way Jose!" negativity.

Or even more subtlety... Simply pose a question, and force them to answer it and create their own options. Yes, they can always choose to "do nothing".

Then you, with facts "Let's look it up..." and show how sucky THEIR option is, and ask them to come up with another one.

This is especially true in ideologies, where people often act like hypocrites (they say they support something, but they act a completely different way), then you highlight their hypocrisy, which will introduce a system shock that will hopefully correct their behavior, at least in some cases.

Thai government wanted an anti-smoking campaign but can't breakthrough, then Ogilvy Thailand came up with a great idea: They got a bunch of kids with cigarettes going up to adult smokers wanting a light. The adults would of course, lecture the kids about not smoking. The kids will listen, then hand the adult a card and leave. The card simply says, "You worry about me, but why not about yourself?" According to Ogilvy, this lead to a 40% increase in call volume to "how to quit smoking" line.

Pick a topic that everybody has a personal stake in, like Health, such as COVID.

If they think US is doing great, point out countries that did FAR FAR better, since US, despite the first to create the vaccine and spent the most money on it, has the most COVID deaths of ANY nation... including China.

If they start blabbing about no vaccine mandates, ask them what would they propose instead? THEN point out the difference in death rates between red and blue states.

And when you can, point out the difference (the hypocrisy) between what they advocate vs. what they really prefer, preferably gently.

Yes, it is tiring, as you need to be prepared to lose a few arguments, as you can't always anticipate where their mind will squirrel into as their logic may seem completely foreign to you, but generally you'll win because you are armed with facts, and they are armed with feelings.
posted by kschang at 10:01 AM on October 21, 2022 [5 favorites]

There is no way you are going to win any argument against Trumpers for COVID. The answers to all those questions are easy: they don't trust COVID death numbers in the US, so why would they trust numbers in any other country? What would they do instead? Well since they don't believe COVID is actually all that deadly (or at best believe the death numbers are wildly inflated due to counting deaths from other causes as COVID), they would do nothing. Finally, the death numbers of red vs blue states, even if you do believe they are correctly stated, are not particularly dramatic, and there is too much noise, like NM at #6 worst and Utah at #49.


Argue if you like arguing, but otherwise, just do what you can to cut off contact, or if you can't do that, do your best to steer conversations away from politics.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:39 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]

If it helps to be aware of the new hot crazy you are going to hear instead of being taken by surprise, check out the podcast QAnon Anonymous. They do a good job covering the emerging trends (everything you mentioned is on the list) and I also personally have found their compassion towards the people who have gotten taken in to be helpful. Because they approach people like your family members as dupes who are just getting really bad information and having a positive experience because of the community they’re now a part of. It helps me to be less emotionally reactive, but I also do not choose to be in contact with people who hold these beliefs.
posted by Bottlecap at 3:23 PM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]

I have increasingly realized that I just don’t like or respect my family members much of the time. What I have done is to set aside any sense of obligation and ask myself what I personally gain from maintaining relationships with them. For me, the answer is that they are the only people who remember my entire life. If I didn’t have these family members, I would have to carry my memories around by myself, never able to ask questions or reminisce. Thus, I try to redirect conversations toward the past. This maximizes the benefit of interacting with these relatives for me while keeping the tone more positive.

It’s still hard. You have to have realistic expectations. At least in my case, I will never win a logical argument not only because logic is considered optional but because of the role I play in my family. I’m not allowed to be right about politics. Try not to be so distracted by the failures of reason going on around you that you lose sight of the emotional family dynamics.
posted by Comet Bug at 4:58 PM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]

I think you need to figure out that they’re not good people and it’s not ethical to interact with them anymore. They are actively trying to harm female bodied, queer people, people of color, etc. You can’t claim to be an ally to me—a woman—and still be friendly with Republicans, even family.
posted by Violet Hour at 11:25 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

@The_Vegetables wrote >>There is no way you are going to win any argument against Trumpers for COVID. The answers to all those questions are easy: they don't trust COVID death numbers in the US, so why would they trust numbers in any other country? <<

If there's not even a common basis of agreed facts, like number of COVID deaths, then they are indeed beyond reason, as you and they can't even agree on a common reality to base reason on.

And yes, I've seen COVID deniers argue semantics like "died of COVID, or died WITH COVID"? Due to the way coroners or MEs write death certificates, but then, there are many coroners, esp. in the south, who refused to put COVID on cause of death because they don't want to pay for the COVID test for someone already dead, during 2020. It all washes out, and dead is dead.

And you don't really want to associate people who refused to acknowledge that COVID, in 2 years, killed more Americans than WW2 did in 4 years. (roughly speaking) You don't need your own sanity tested like that.
posted by kschang at 12:28 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]

Since it has come up, I want to address the ethical question. This is something that has frustrated me on Metafilter ever since 2016. Personally, I feel it is out of line to tell someone it's unethical for them to interact with their own family. The situation is so much more complicated than that.

Merely interacting with people who have bought into harmful ideas does not cause further harm, except to the emotional wellbeing of the person interacting with them. If anything, it could potentially plant a tiny seed of doubt. I would not advise anyone to maintain relationships solely to try to change minds because that is likely to do more harm overall than good. But the idea that it's unethical to maintain even weak ties to people with harmful beliefs seem to fall into the thinking of ethics as contagion, which is a potentially dangerous mindset.

If family members are actively pursuing agendas of harm, the calculus could be different. In my experience, people who are more passively manipulated by nefarious media are people whose political beliefs are not so well-integrated into their sense of self. The beliefs can't be well-integrated because they are totally incoherent to anyone with a bit a decency left in them, which is most people. Take away the nefarious media, and these dupes frequently become better people without even noticing it themselves. They are operating on a different ethical plane than you are (though it is always wise to acknowledge one's own irrationality). This is not to say that people with harmful beliefs should not be held accountable.

Also, sometimes people with odious politics are part of one's support system or local community. We all have to pick our battles.
posted by Comet Bug at 2:13 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]