Traveling in Europe this winter?

October 20, 2022 11:49 PM

We need to be in London for work in late November, and are wondering if we should bring the kids along to have an extended family trip in Europe (specifically Scandinavia). Given the possible gas shortages due to the war, though, is this a good idea?

We live in Singapore, and the kids would love to be somewhere cold and even possibly snowing. But if heating is going to be a problem we might not want to risk it.

posted by destrius to Travel & Transportation (16 answers total)

If you are going to Scandinavian countries I would not be overly worried about staying warm. These countries know how to insulate their houses, use little natural gas themselves (2% of energy use in Sweden for example) and depend on renewables for the majority of their energy. If all else fails they have a great deal of wood and some very warm clothes.
posted by rongorongo at 12:14 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

For snow in November it has to be quite far North and probably inland. Norway is beautiful and they have all the gas and mainly run on renewables, like rongorongo says. But it is the most expensive country in the world, if that is important. I feel the beauty in Sweden and Finland is more understated, and specially in Sweden, it's mostly the landscape, the towns aren't very charming (though there are some pretty villages and old country houses there).
Southern half of Sweden, Denmark and the coast of Norway will most likely just be very dark with grey/rainy cold weather and none or little snow.
posted by mumimor at 12:39 AM on October 21, 2022 [4 favorites]

I wouldn't worry about the energy situation at all in November. FWIW I'm in Austria right now an there's no visible signs of any difference. Well, there was a newspaper article about how some outdoor cafes might charge patrons for using gas heaters to sit outside, but that seems both bizarre (outside in winter?) and overblown hand-wringing. If it's a cold winter things might get harder in Europe but that won't be until March.

You may want to check your Covid exposure feelings though. There's some concern about another wave this winter. Also Europe is slow to get the new bivalent vaccines and given the new strains running around it's not clear whether they will matter anyway.
posted by Nelson at 1:29 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

Given the possible gas shortages due to the war, though, is this a good idea?

I think the biggest shortage you'll encounter will be in your wallet.
posted by Stoneshop at 2:53 AM on October 21, 2022 [4 favorites]

In late November, you'll need to go to Lapland for the best chances of snow. I would look into when the Christmas villages start operating, but I imagine they would be active already in late November.

Edit: Your question was not about where to go but if you should. I can only speak for Finland, but gas shortages should not be an issue. There are concerns about the electrical output for this winter, but that shouldn't be until the colder months after the New Year, and even then, it still should not be an issue.
posted by wile e at 3:00 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

As they say. There’s no gas(oline) shortage here just exorbitant price levels on gas. But November in the North is dark, wet and utterly untouristy. Heck, I don’t even like to go into my garden right now.
posted by Namlit at 3:12 AM on October 21, 2022 [4 favorites]

Note that when Europe talks about gas shortages, it's the stuff that comes out of a pipe, used for cooking, heating and especially a number of industrial processes. Vehicles run on petrol, diesel or LPG (or electrons), of which there are no notable shortages although energy in general, and with it vehicle fuels, has become more expensive.
posted by Stoneshop at 4:21 AM on October 21, 2022 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks all! Glad to know that heating is unlikely to be a problem. Yeah, I generally dislike winter having stayed in the Midwest for a few years, but after a decade in the tropics I think I'm ready for a few weeks of lack of sunshine.

So I was going to ask in a separate question where we can go to see some snow, but some of you have already mentioned it so I might as well continue here... If we do go, we'll be there from late November to early December. Seems like we'll have to go to Norway, probably? Will there be any snow in Oslo? We'd also prefer to travel by rail than fly, so we have to be somewhere with decent rail connections.

Snow isn't a must, but my younger is in a Frozen phase at the moment so I think she'll be ecstatic to see some!
posted by destrius at 4:37 AM on October 21, 2022

For snow in November it has to be quite far North and probably inland.

Or a bit up a mountain, of which Norway has a few. I rode over a snow-covered pass one early October, next to which they were getting a ski lift in order for the winter.

Off the top of my head that was a little south of Jotunheimen, some 300km north of Oslo, and about 150k inland.
posted by Stoneshop at 4:39 AM on October 21, 2022

Seconding Namlit about the dark - I often need to travel to England in December, and the sun goes down surprisingly early up there in winter. Things can be open and active in the evening, but when it's dark like nighttime out, it might feel like "Well, the day is done, maybe I should go to bed?"
posted by cadge at 4:40 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

We'd also prefer to travel by rail than fly

Large parts of Europe have decent to very good rail services, if I get on a train here in the Netherlands now I can be in Oslo within 24 hours. Which is not amazingly fast (flying takes 6h or so, including check-in, getting to and from airports etc), but it's just changing trains, no other transport options needed. 7 hours to Berlin or Munich, 9 to Marseille, 10 to Vienna or Edinburgh.

For routes within Norway look at the videos posted by RailCowGirl on Youtube to sample some of the scenery in southern Norway across the seasons. There are also videos of the Nordlandsbanen, Oslo to Trondheim and further north, but those tend to be either from around September, or February/March; November apparently is not sufficiently scenic compared to those two to warrant a video impression.
posted by Stoneshop at 5:20 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

You might get snow in Oslo, but probably not. However, as an example, the Bergensbanen (Oslo to Bergen railway) will get you up to 1200m or so above sea level in a few hours.
posted by knapah at 7:31 AM on October 21, 2022

If you don't mind the travel time, consider going far north to see the northern lights. Stockholm have night trains, with sleeping compartments, leaving in evenings and arriving lunch time in Abisko.

Mid November is the start of the commercial northern light season, and most years there are snow in the valleys, but the peeks fore sure.
posted by skaggig at 9:38 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]

You might want to look at Seat 61 for information on rail in Europe. It's a bit UK centric in the sense that a lot of the information starts as how to get from London to , but the guy that runs it is very well informed on European rail, it's all in English and the information about the trains is very thorough. In particular, it's excellent in covering what the train journeys will be like and the best way of buying tickets.
posted by plonkee at 10:00 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

November snow in Europe is quite unlikely in any individual place other than the extreme North, as mentioned. However it is also pretty likely if you are willing to travel, to wherever it might have fallen,at the last minute. So a flight from London to Geneva, Barcelona, Oslo or even Edinburgh might take you there.
posted by rongorongo at 10:07 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Hi all, thanks for all the replies! Sorry for not responding sooner as I was sick for a bit. Our current plan is to take a cheap flight to Stockholm, spend a few days there, take a train to Abisko to see some snow and perhaps see the northern lights, and then progressively make our way back to London on rail via Copenhagen and then Cologne. I know its not the best time to travel, but it should still be an interesting adventure!
posted by destrius at 8:04 PM on November 2, 2022 [1 favorite]