Negotiating a salary without another offer
October 13, 2022 9:45 AM Subscribe
I got a job offer. I was expecting a competing job offer to come in with a higher salary, and so I told the recruiter that and asked if there was flexibility in the job offer. I learned today I didn't get offered the second job. How do I negotiate the salary for the job I _was_ offered?
This is a tech job, for what it's worth. I would have taken the initial offer if I didn't think I could get more; I think I'm worth more than what I was offered but would be happy at this point to take that if it's the best offer.
The recruiter for the job I was offered got back to me and asked if I had any competing offers and what they looked like. I don't feel comfortable lying, but I don't want to respond just "no" because I know that gives me no leverage.
I'm just very new to the whole game of salary negotiations and don't want to mess this up!
This is a tech job, for what it's worth. I would have taken the initial offer if I didn't think I could get more; I think I'm worth more than what I was offered but would be happy at this point to take that if it's the best offer.
The recruiter for the job I was offered got back to me and asked if I had any competing offers and what they looked like. I don't feel comfortable lying, but I don't want to respond just "no" because I know that gives me no leverage.
I'm just very new to the whole game of salary negotiations and don't want to mess this up!
You don't necessarily need to have a competing offer to negotiate a higher salary. In my experience, just asking for more money nearly always works. I usually ask for about 5% (maybe a little more if they are really lowballing you) over what they offered, give a vague but authentic reason ("Based on my experience in the field/market rate/etc...") and see what they say. This is more or less expected by any reasonable org, and they will probably bump the offer up a bit.
You may have shown your cards a little bit by talking about the possibility of another offer, but moving forward just deflect questions about that with dead end answers ("No offers yet but I am talking with a few other orgs...").
posted by TurnKey at 10:19 AM on October 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
You may have shown your cards a little bit by talking about the possibility of another offer, but moving forward just deflect questions about that with dead end answers ("No offers yet but I am talking with a few other orgs...").
posted by TurnKey at 10:19 AM on October 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
First off, you should always negotiate your salary and benefits whether or not you have competing offers. I would simply say that based on your research and considering the current economic climate (inflation and all), that people at your level and with your experience should be paid $X. Then let them respond.
Either they will come back and agree to your terms (yay) or they will offer something in between their first offer and your counter and you can decide if you can live with that or they will say no. If they come back with something lower than you ask for or a no for more money, then ask for more benefits - more remote flexibility, more paid vacation, sooner vesting in a retirement account.
And lesson learned, don't give specifics to recruiters about other offers unless you actually have something.
posted by brookeb at 10:20 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Either they will come back and agree to your terms (yay) or they will offer something in between their first offer and your counter and you can decide if you can live with that or they will say no. If they come back with something lower than you ask for or a no for more money, then ask for more benefits - more remote flexibility, more paid vacation, sooner vesting in a retirement account.
And lesson learned, don't give specifics to recruiters about other offers unless you actually have something.
posted by brookeb at 10:20 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
"I don't have the other offer in hand yet but I am expecting to see about $x for this kind of position."
True statement and focuses on the key part which is your expectation. - the "yet" is a bit of fudge but if you have other applications out there, some of them will turn ito an offer eventually so it's not a lie either.
posted by metahawk at 10:44 AM on October 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
True statement and focuses on the key part which is your expectation. - the "yet" is a bit of fudge but if you have other applications out there, some of them will turn ito an offer eventually so it's not a lie either.
posted by metahawk at 10:44 AM on October 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
So I do this for a living as a recruiter. On the other side of things, your recruiter wants to close you. You should figure out a few things, do you want this job? Would you take the offer? If you do want this job and have a number in mind I would say something like:
"Thanks, after going through the process you're definitely my top choice for X reasons. That said I have some concerns about the salary, it's lower than I expected given {my years of experience, the market, etc}."
Now if you want to make it super easy and have a number in mind say "If you can hit $X I'd be happy to accept and shut down my search". It provides the recruiter a very concrete and tangible justification to go back to the business and get you that number. I've overcome a lot of back and forth by having candidates tell me that and mean it. They might also not be able to hit and get close, but at least then you know.
posted by Carillon at 10:50 AM on October 13, 2022 [19 favorites]
"Thanks, after going through the process you're definitely my top choice for X reasons. That said I have some concerns about the salary, it's lower than I expected given {my years of experience, the market, etc}."
Now if you want to make it super easy and have a number in mind say "If you can hit $X I'd be happy to accept and shut down my search". It provides the recruiter a very concrete and tangible justification to go back to the business and get you that number. I've overcome a lot of back and forth by having candidates tell me that and mean it. They might also not be able to hit and get close, but at least then you know.
posted by Carillon at 10:50 AM on October 13, 2022 [19 favorites]
First of all, this seems more difficult to you because you know something they don't, which is that you didn't get the offer you were expecting. They never even knew you were expecting an offer. On preview, what metahawk said works. "I don't have an offer in hand yet, but I have been interviewing..."
The other thing to remember is that asking to negotiate doesn't nullify the offer. If they give you an offer of $x and you ask for $x+10 instead, but they say no, you're not SOL. You've still got $x on the table, which they'd still be happy to give you. You've got nothing to lose. (I suppose some places might pull the offer if you attempt to negotiate, but the important information to take from that interaction is that those are not good places to work, and they're doing you a favor by withdrawing.)
And keep in mind that there are other things besides base salary you can negotiate as well: bonus, vacation time, stock options, job title, etc. If you get an upfront signing bonus, an extra week off, and a more prestigious title that'll help in your next job search, that might actually work out better for you than if you just got more salary.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:53 AM on October 13, 2022
The other thing to remember is that asking to negotiate doesn't nullify the offer. If they give you an offer of $x and you ask for $x+10 instead, but they say no, you're not SOL. You've still got $x on the table, which they'd still be happy to give you. You've got nothing to lose. (I suppose some places might pull the offer if you attempt to negotiate, but the important information to take from that interaction is that those are not good places to work, and they're doing you a favor by withdrawing.)
And keep in mind that there are other things besides base salary you can negotiate as well: bonus, vacation time, stock options, job title, etc. If you get an upfront signing bonus, an extra week off, and a more prestigious title that'll help in your next job search, that might actually work out better for you than if you just got more salary.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:53 AM on October 13, 2022
The recruiter for the job I was offered got back to me and asked if I had any competing offers and what they looked like. I don't feel comfortable lying, but I don't want to respond just "no" because I know that gives me no leverage.
Holy shit no. Even if you did have another offer, the details are not ANY of their business and you absolutely do not need to feel compelled to disclose. (I don't think you ever should disclose that to a recruiter.) Instead I would just say "Sorry, I am not comfortable disclosing details of other offers. But based on my market research, job history and experience, I am looking for offers in the ballpark of their offer plus 7%."
posted by DarlingBri at 12:51 PM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Holy shit no. Even if you did have another offer, the details are not ANY of their business and you absolutely do not need to feel compelled to disclose. (I don't think you ever should disclose that to a recruiter.) Instead I would just say "Sorry, I am not comfortable disclosing details of other offers. But based on my market research, job history and experience, I am looking for offers in the ballpark of their offer plus 7%."
posted by DarlingBri at 12:51 PM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Redirection is your friend, you have permission to avoid directly answering the question as asked.
What does a good competitive salary look like for your industry and position? Let's say that figure is X. As Carillon notes you can get back to the recruiter with "For an offer of X, I will be ready to sign with the company immediately." Now the ball is in their court to accept or provide a counter-offer that is better than their current offer. The point is, they know where you stand and what it takes to close the deal.
Keep in mind that for your sake, your request for X assumes no decrease in other forms of compensation. If they offer you X while taking away PTO, for example, you are not obligated to accept the offer as-is. The reason is the company is offering something different from what you asked for. Companies will do this, because they are greedy and think they can get away it. Feel free to pushback courteously if that happens.
posted by Goblin Barbarian at 1:33 PM on October 13, 2022
What does a good competitive salary look like for your industry and position? Let's say that figure is X. As Carillon notes you can get back to the recruiter with "For an offer of X, I will be ready to sign with the company immediately." Now the ball is in their court to accept or provide a counter-offer that is better than their current offer. The point is, they know where you stand and what it takes to close the deal.
Keep in mind that for your sake, your request for X assumes no decrease in other forms of compensation. If they offer you X while taking away PTO, for example, you are not obligated to accept the offer as-is. The reason is the company is offering something different from what you asked for. Companies will do this, because they are greedy and think they can get away it. Feel free to pushback courteously if that happens.
posted by Goblin Barbarian at 1:33 PM on October 13, 2022
I've always asked for more, never with competing offers, and always got them to increase the offer somewhat. And this is with nonprofits and government agencies; would think that is even more common in the private sector. Just be polite and thank them for their work in connecting you with the job and explain why you deserve more.
posted by knownfossils at 4:20 PM on October 13, 2022
posted by knownfossils at 4:20 PM on October 13, 2022
Hi Person!
I’ve been grateful for your clear and helpful comments through this process - thank you!
I’ve been really fortunate in my job search this fall and had several possible paths open up, each with their own appeal. To be honest, though, I’ll tip my hand and let you know that Company is my top choice because I’m so interested in the opportunity to (do specific thing they do).
So - if you think you’d be able to hit a target of Y dollars with Z benefits, I would be thrilled to join the team.
I’ve really appreciated working with you through this process so I wanted to be transparent!
Thanks so much for your insights -
Name
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:11 PM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
I’ve been grateful for your clear and helpful comments through this process - thank you!
I’ve been really fortunate in my job search this fall and had several possible paths open up, each with their own appeal. To be honest, though, I’ll tip my hand and let you know that Company is my top choice because I’m so interested in the opportunity to (do specific thing they do).
So - if you think you’d be able to hit a target of Y dollars with Z benefits, I would be thrilled to join the team.
I’ve really appreciated working with you through this process so I wanted to be transparent!
Thanks so much for your insights -
Name
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:11 PM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
I’d like to echo what Carillon said above about asking for a specific dollar amount and offering to wrap up your search if they meet it. (I have used this line and it worked.)
Companies expect you to negotiate and usually have this built into the initial offer.
The leverage you have is that you can continue looking. You can use lines like, “The compensation I get here is going to influence the compensation I get at future jobs and I want to make sure I’m getting the best offer I can.” Who could possibly fault you for that? They may not meet what you are asking for but they are not going to accuse you of being unreasonable.
Also, it is hard to find good people in tech and the interview processes are skewed to avoid bad hires at the risk of potentially rejecting good hires. If you have gotten an offer, a lot of time and effort has been put into vetting you including disruptions to normal roadmap work for interviewing. It’s demoralizing to a team to find someone they like, extend an offer and have the candidate not accept.
Your recruiter does not want to have to go back to those people and tell them she couldn’t close you, especially because you decided to keep looking.
posted by alphanerd at 9:00 PM on October 13, 2022
Companies expect you to negotiate and usually have this built into the initial offer.
The leverage you have is that you can continue looking. You can use lines like, “The compensation I get here is going to influence the compensation I get at future jobs and I want to make sure I’m getting the best offer I can.” Who could possibly fault you for that? They may not meet what you are asking for but they are not going to accuse you of being unreasonable.
Also, it is hard to find good people in tech and the interview processes are skewed to avoid bad hires at the risk of potentially rejecting good hires. If you have gotten an offer, a lot of time and effort has been put into vetting you including disruptions to normal roadmap work for interviewing. It’s demoralizing to a team to find someone they like, extend an offer and have the candidate not accept.
Your recruiter does not want to have to go back to those people and tell them she couldn’t close you, especially because you decided to keep looking.
posted by alphanerd at 9:00 PM on October 13, 2022
Also you know, good luck! As mentioned, I do this professionally, so feel free to either memail me or send me an email from an anon account if you have any more specific questions.
posted by Carillon at 10:05 PM on October 13, 2022
posted by Carillon at 10:05 PM on October 13, 2022
Also think about if they can't meet your ask for increased $ / salary are there other things they can do to sweeten the pot? More benefits, more days off, extra professional development costs, equity etc.?
posted by lalochezia at 10:05 AM on October 14, 2022
posted by lalochezia at 10:05 AM on October 14, 2022
The recruiter for the job I was offered got back to me and asked if I had any competing offers and what they looked like. I don't feel comfortable lying, but I don't want to respond just "no" because I know that gives me no leverage.
This is a high stakes negotiation tactic similar to screening for dealing with information asymmetry. And annoyingly, it works. If you have a strong offer from Google, they expect you would say so, as it would be to your advantage. Even declining to answer their question allows them to make an inference about your options, and not in a good way. I hear Google has asked candidates for offer letters if a candidate mentions them in negotiations.
What I try to do is keep a huge backlog of applications and leads, so that I can walk away from any offer, and at least vaguely imply that I have just as many other leads for work as they have qualified candidates. Probably something like "I am early in my search, and expecting an offer more like $blah. I am progressing through interview stages with many firms including $competitor. If you can make an offer that meets or exceeds $blah, I'm willing to end my job search and accept your offer. Otherwise, I will continue looking while you prepare an acceptable counteroffer."
That said, I am not a negotiating genius. I asked for an additional $5k in salary and got it. Four years later I am earning $150k more just from RSU refresher awards and stock price going up. That is uh, a wide gap in potential outcomes. Some of which is admittedly solving the information asymmetry gap by employing me for four years.
posted by pwnguin at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is a high stakes negotiation tactic similar to screening for dealing with information asymmetry. And annoyingly, it works. If you have a strong offer from Google, they expect you would say so, as it would be to your advantage. Even declining to answer their question allows them to make an inference about your options, and not in a good way. I hear Google has asked candidates for offer letters if a candidate mentions them in negotiations.
What I try to do is keep a huge backlog of applications and leads, so that I can walk away from any offer, and at least vaguely imply that I have just as many other leads for work as they have qualified candidates. Probably something like "I am early in my search, and expecting an offer more like $blah. I am progressing through interview stages with many firms including $competitor. If you can make an offer that meets or exceeds $blah, I'm willing to end my job search and accept your offer. Otherwise, I will continue looking while you prepare an acceptable counteroffer."
That said, I am not a negotiating genius. I asked for an additional $5k in salary and got it. Four years later I am earning $150k more just from RSU refresher awards and stock price going up. That is uh, a wide gap in potential outcomes. Some of which is admittedly solving the information asymmetry gap by employing me for four years.
posted by pwnguin at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by oceanjesse at 9:57 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]