Ratio of rent between two apartments at the same location

October 4, 2022 9:59 AM

I want to propose an amount of rent to my landlord to move to an apartment across the hall. I think my suggestion will be to compare the market rate between the two, and increase my rent proportionately if necessary. Hoping for help on what the appropriate comparison between the two would be, and maybe bonus thoughts on how I should negotiate this.

These apartments are at the same location, across the hall in a 110+ year old heritage house.

My current apartment:
- 1 bedroom, 1 bath
- 600 square feet, plus large private deck (maybe 200 square feet) not visible from the street, suitable for gardening and separate entrance through there
- beautiful fireplace (not cleaned up to work now but could be)
- ordinary kitchen, with a sizeable dining area
- small living room area
- decent amount of natural light
- large nice bathroom, huge tub (with a separate room for the toilet)
- nice but not super special views
- I might leave behind a decent couch if the landlord/next tenants want it since it won't fit through the door

The other apartment:
- 1 bedroom, 1 bath and den, 700 square feet
- similar or slightly less functional kitchen, shared dining and living room area, arguably better layout (one big room) and a nice corner bank of windows
- small den with beautiful window (all the windows in this place are old growth cedar circa 1900 with stained glass panels – I'm very lucky)
- similar size bedroom but more windows
- more light in all rooms
- no separate entrance or deck
- slightly smaller bathroom, all in one room
- stunning views in all rooms

Also, if anyone has thoughts on how I could propose this to my landlord that would be awesome. I'm happy to pay more rent but it's not worth it if I have to pay market rent. The landlord would then be able to rent out my current apartment at market rent (way higher than my current rent).

posted by lookoutbelow to Home & Garden (11 answers total)

As someone who has negotiated rent quite often, I think you're going about this the wrong way.

A What is your current rent?
B What amount more would you be "happy to pay?"
C What amount more would put it outside of being worthwhile to you?

Those three numbers A B and C are what you need to keep in mind, not the market.

Then you should ask your landlord to come up with a number. You don't propose one first, your landlord does.

If the landlord proposes a number between A and B, then you're golden.

If your landlord proposes an amount between B and C, you say, "oh, I was thinking somewhere more along the lines of [50% of the way between A and B]. That's your negotiating point. You can work from there, but keep C very solidly in mind so you know where you need to stop.

If you can't come to an agreement somewhere comfortably close to your B, then you just say "Ok thanks, this one isn't for me, I'm quite happy to stay where I am. But please let me know if that unit is ever available at my price point!"
posted by phunniemee at 10:19 AM on October 4, 2022 [17 favorites]

It sounds like there are enough tradeoffs between the two that the rent should be somewhat comparable. A lot of people will give up some extra square footage for a whole outside space and vice versa.

I would ask your landlord if you can swap apartments. Don't name a number, don't ask about price, ask as though you are assuming the rents would be pretty comparable if not the same. Let the landlord name a price for the apartment and negotiate from there. A key to negotiation is to try to make the other person name their price first, not you.
posted by cakelite at 10:28 AM on October 4, 2022 [23 favorites]

If you know what the prior tenant rented it for, see if they'll go for that (unless it's lower than your current rent). If the rents were the same, ask for a swap. They won't be getting any less from you, and unless the market rate of the other apartment is much much more than the market rate of yours, they won't feel gutted for having to rent your space.
posted by deezil at 11:18 AM on October 4, 2022

Oh, you're in Vancouver. Be prepared for the landlord to quote a ridiculous "market value" rent - since technically you'll be signing a new lease the landlord is legally allowed not to honour the 2% max increase allowable this year and is free to name any price they want.

I really need to move, but the market rental increases over the last quarter have been jaw dropping.
posted by porpoise at 11:25 AM on October 4, 2022 [1 favorite]

The landlord will incur costs to get TWO apartments move-in ready if you switch. You might offer to cover that cost (once) so the landlord isn't tempted to roll the cost into the new rent.

I'm sure this is obvious, but be sure you get your new lease signed before you give notice that you're giving up your old place.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:28 AM on October 4, 2022 [2 favorites]

Definitely agree that you want to try to get a number from them first but do not be afraid to try to negotiate. I’m not sure if Vancouver/BC is like Ontario in this way, but in Ontario it’s very difficult to force a tenant out. If that’s also the case there, you shouldn’t be able to end up homeless just because you tried to negotiate.

> but be sure you get your new lease signed before you give notice that you're giving up your old place.

I think the landlord might find out about the new place from…themselves…?
posted by tubedogg at 12:46 PM on October 4, 2022

I guess the question is why your landlord would want to do this. Usually this comes down to money. The landlord stands to make certain amount of money if you remain in your current apartment and the vacant apartment rents at a market rate. If you would like to pay below market for the vacant apartment by some amount, the landlord would need to increase the rental income on your current apartment by at least an equivalent amount just in order to break even on the combined rental income. Presumably the landlord wouldn't be interested in simply breaking even on the rental income, especially considering the added expense incurred in connection with the turnover of your current apartment. So, from a financial perspective, that's the math you have to do: How much under market do you want to pay, and would the rental increase on your current apartment exceed that amount by a reasonable margin? The issue is that it's hard to answer the second question, and the landlord is the one who will be setting the prices. But it doesn't hurt to ask what the landlord's expected rental is for the vacant apartment, and if it seems reasonably near what you're willing/able to pay, to suggest that it might be a win-win situation if you were to move into the vacant apartment at an under-market rate.

There can, of course, be all kinds of other reasons your landlord may want to keep you as a tenant and may be happy for you to move into the vacant apartment even at a rate that is below market. I had a landlord who moved me up to a newly renovated apartment on the top floor with a regulated + preferential lease in exactly the amount I was already paying because he needed to tear out the bathroom in my old apartment and couldn't do it while the apartment was occupied.
posted by slkinsey at 1:13 PM on October 4, 2022

The other place is ~17% larger with a few other trade offs that go in either direction. What if you propose 15% and see what happens.

A friend recently moved units in the same building and was able to negotiate the market value of the bigger place down by arguing that the LL was going to make even more money off the new market value of the smaller place.
posted by vunder at 3:03 PM on October 4, 2022

I agree with phunniemee's strategy. Negotiating is always best (for you) if you are very clear on your numbers ahead of time, but can keep those to yourself for as long as possible and get the other party to start the bidding.
posted by dg at 7:45 PM on October 4, 2022

We did this years ago, in an oddly similar situation: moved from a "two bedroom" (really bed + den), good size kitchen, no outdoor access, in a former victorian mansion to the place across the hall. We got better light, direct access to a shared patio that no one really used, no real bedroom but a sunporch-parlor-living room type thing with french doors and 13 foot ceilings.

We asked if we could move and pay the same rent, and they said yes but: we had to move in by the end of the month and they would do no prep to the unit we were moving to. Our final rent in the old place ended March 30th and we had to be in the new by April 1st. So I don't think the landlord felt they were losing out by us moving.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:13 PM on October 4, 2022

> but be sure you get your new lease signed before you give notice that you're giving up your old place.


I think the landlord might find out about the new place from…themselves…?

It's not about them "finding out" it's about making sure you don't end up with a "new tenant" rent. If she gives notice for her old lease without a signed lease in hand for the new place, what's to stop the landlord from demanding market rate for the new place at that point? The OP would have to either pay current market prices or go looking for a new place to live (also at current market prices).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:28 AM on October 5, 2022 [1 favorite]