Screen door + kid = arghhhhhh
August 22, 2022 7:51 AM Subscribe
We have a storm door on our front door. We have a six year old who keeps destroying the screen by ripping or popping the screen material out of its frame. Help us come up with a solution that allows airflow but does not allow for continual destruction.
There are relevant details inside so please don't answer this without reading them.
We are in the US so I'm using inches and dollars and hope to see solutions that are purchasable in the US.
The format of the current door looks like this HomeDepot option but our door is 36x90 and not that color.
The storm door is old and no longer allows for the top part to be the screened part as the plastic window part up there is screwed into the metal in a permanent way. We can only move the lower plastic part up. Yes, I'm aware that screws are not permanent things but the frame is warped and it just won't work to take the screws out.
The storm door is 36x90 inches which is apparently a custom size so I can't just get a new door without putting a bunch of money into this.
I've looked into magnetic screen doors and have had trouble finding something in a 36x90 size - if you can find this, I'd buy it.
The six year old is not going to stop doing this - he is non-neurotypical and we choose our battles and this is not one that has shown any sign of being a worthwhile battle.
We already have replaced the screen ourselves several times. We have the screen and the plastic cord and the tool to put it all together. We would like to stop doing this as it gets destroyed literally within hours of repair. We live in a place that has mosquitoes.
I'm willing to spend up to $300 if things are really going to fix the problem in a permanent way. $100 if it will only fix it for the rest of the year. $50 if it is likely to fall apart.
We are in the US so I'm using inches and dollars and hope to see solutions that are purchasable in the US.
The format of the current door looks like this HomeDepot option but our door is 36x90 and not that color.
The storm door is old and no longer allows for the top part to be the screened part as the plastic window part up there is screwed into the metal in a permanent way. We can only move the lower plastic part up. Yes, I'm aware that screws are not permanent things but the frame is warped and it just won't work to take the screws out.
The storm door is 36x90 inches which is apparently a custom size so I can't just get a new door without putting a bunch of money into this.
I've looked into magnetic screen doors and have had trouble finding something in a 36x90 size - if you can find this, I'd buy it.
The six year old is not going to stop doing this - he is non-neurotypical and we choose our battles and this is not one that has shown any sign of being a worthwhile battle.
We already have replaced the screen ourselves several times. We have the screen and the plastic cord and the tool to put it all together. We would like to stop doing this as it gets destroyed literally within hours of repair. We live in a place that has mosquitoes.
I'm willing to spend up to $300 if things are really going to fix the problem in a permanent way. $100 if it will only fix it for the rest of the year. $50 if it is likely to fall apart.
If the door's on the way out anyway, is there any sense in spending $10 on some kind of sensory deterrence or sensory decoy, as an experiment? If he's popping it from the middle, no dice, but if it's from the edges, maybe covering them with velcro tape would provide something else to mess with in the exact same location (rip the velcro off, stick the velcro back) and also some sensory deterrence as that deteriorates (if your kid finds either velcro hooks or stickiness off-putting).
posted by deludingmyself at 8:49 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by deludingmyself at 8:49 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Do you want to keep it screen for ventilation? If not or you don't mind, I might mount plexiglass with either velcro tape or screws over the screen. You could extend that general idea with a little more ventilation with pegboard or even old fashioned attic ventilation lattice perhaps.
posted by stormygrey at 8:50 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by stormygrey at 8:50 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ugh, that sounds frustrating, but kids gonna kid. Instead of 'fixing' the screen with the traditional way, replacing with a spline so the screen stays in place permanently, could you attach the screen in a way that is more readily designed to fail, like it is attached to the door with magnets around the perimeter, eg. like this. Won't keep out a dog, but when kid pulls it down (again) it more easily gets replaced.
If the issue is that its satisfying to pop the spline out of the frame, might there be some deterrent to make it less desirable? Some sort of coating of gel or tape or other sensory deterrent that kid doesn't like?
posted by enfa at 8:51 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
If the issue is that its satisfying to pop the spline out of the frame, might there be some deterrent to make it less desirable? Some sort of coating of gel or tape or other sensory deterrent that kid doesn't like?
posted by enfa at 8:51 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Home Depot link throws an 'access denied' for me so I can't see what your door sort of looks like, but the first thing I'm thinking of is a polycarbonate (plexiglass) sheet, 3 to 4mm thick (0.15" or whatever's a close standard thickness), drilled with lots of holes that the kid can't get its fingers into. This needs to be appropriately sized so you can just screw on to the frame part of the screen door.
On preview: similar to what stormygrey suggests, with added ventilation.
posted by Stoneshop at 8:59 AM on August 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
On preview: similar to what stormygrey suggests, with added ventilation.
posted by Stoneshop at 8:59 AM on August 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
For protection from both kids and dogs, I have seen people attach wire mesh hardware cloth (similar to this) across the lower 1/2 of the door. That way when the kid or dog pushes on the door, they are pushing on wire mesh rather than directly on the screen.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:05 AM on August 22, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 9:05 AM on August 22, 2022 [15 favorites]
Stoneshop and anyone else outside the US (maybe just in Europe with GDPR) it will be visible with a US VPN. Fingers crossed someone has a solution!
posted by ellieBOA at 9:05 AM on August 22, 2022
posted by ellieBOA at 9:05 AM on August 22, 2022
I have no suggestions, but here's a screenshot of the Home Depot image for anyone who can't see it.
posted by primethyme at 9:10 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by primethyme at 9:10 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is it something specifically about the screen that your kid just likes to mess with? Maybe he's using it as kind of a fret toy?
You could try some solutions not related to the door specifically. Maybe buy a separate, diversionary window screen specifically as a toy for your kid to play with and poke at? It might not last long, but if it's not actually attached to your door and needed for functionality, you could just repair it with duct tape or something when he destroys it, so he can "destroy" it all over again.
posted by invincible summer at 9:29 AM on August 22, 2022
You could try some solutions not related to the door specifically. Maybe buy a separate, diversionary window screen specifically as a toy for your kid to play with and poke at? It might not last long, but if it's not actually attached to your door and needed for functionality, you could just repair it with duct tape or something when he destroys it, so he can "destroy" it all over again.
posted by invincible summer at 9:29 AM on August 22, 2022
Maybe consider security screen doors, like this one? It is at the top of your price range. These types of doors use a metal panel with holes punched in it rather than a wire mesh for screening. You will lose the "storm" part of the door, but you will keep the ventilation part. These are common in parts of the southwest where screen doors are left open overnight.
posted by OrangeDisk at 9:52 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by OrangeDisk at 9:52 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Get a Screen door grille, a stiff metal screen that fits over the fine mesh screening.
posted by TDIpod at 10:00 AM on August 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by TDIpod at 10:00 AM on August 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Sensory distractions won’t work. Kid is on the far end of the ADHD range in the impulsive category and distractions only last maybe ten minutes.
A deliberate fall apart solution leaves us continually fixing it and lets mosquitos in and cats out.
We need it for ventilation with insect exclusion so plastic with holes drilled in won’t work.
The security door suggested is not the right size. Any new door of any kind is going to be custom due to the 90 in height of the current door. Custom is $$$$$.
Screen door grille or magnetic magic mesh look possible.
posted by sciencegeek at 10:47 AM on August 22, 2022
A deliberate fall apart solution leaves us continually fixing it and lets mosquitos in and cats out.
We need it for ventilation with insect exclusion so plastic with holes drilled in won’t work.
The security door suggested is not the right size. Any new door of any kind is going to be custom due to the 90 in height of the current door. Custom is $$$$$.
Screen door grille or magnetic magic mesh look possible.
posted by sciencegeek at 10:47 AM on August 22, 2022
If there is place near you that works on used fridges or recycles them a fridge wire shelf attached to the door with little metal straps and sheet metal screws works wizard for this. Available in assorted sizes they don't have any sharp edges but are of sufficient toughness. Get one that is chrome rather than plastic coated.
posted by Mitheral at 11:07 AM on August 22, 2022
posted by Mitheral at 11:07 AM on August 22, 2022
Unfortunately, the magic mesh will let the cats out, I didn't think about that.
I wonder if fixing the screen one last time and then screwing something like baking racks or grill mesh over it would work for at least a while?
posted by Lyn Never at 11:11 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wonder if fixing the screen one last time and then screwing something like baking racks or grill mesh over it would work for at least a while?
posted by Lyn Never at 11:11 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If other solutions do not work for you, a tall doorway in my house has a standard size storm door, accomplished by adding a header board over just the storm door.
posted by metasarah at 11:17 AM on August 22, 2022
posted by metasarah at 11:17 AM on August 22, 2022
We need it for ventilation with insect exclusion so plastic with holes drilled in won’t work.
It's meant to be an addition to the existing insect-stopping screen, or you could put insect mesh right against the rear of the plexiglass, essentially clamped between the door frame and the plexiglass.
posted by Stoneshop at 11:23 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's meant to be an addition to the existing insect-stopping screen, or you could put insect mesh right against the rear of the plexiglass, essentially clamped between the door frame and the plexiglass.
posted by Stoneshop at 11:23 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Shadecloth is very tough stuff and should be about as good as ordinary mosquito mesh at keeping mosquitoes out.
It could be stretched and fixed across a door frame using the same method I used to put it up on my pergola: take apart a timber garden trellis to get a bunch of thin wooden strips, staple an edge of the cloth to a strip, then roll it around the strip twice so that there are two thicknesses of shadecloth on both sides.
You'd need to cut corner notches out of the shadecloth patch before rolling the strips onto it, so that the strips make a plain rectangle with no bunched-up corners once they're all rolled on.
Screw the strips to the face of the doorframe with thin bugle headed plasterboard screws, one screw every four inches or so, going straight through the strip and all the shadecloth layers wrapped around it. On the door in the Home Depot image, the shadecloth fixing strips could go right next to the outside of the existing moulding, and the shadecloth would come out from under a fixing strip and stretch up and over the mouldings to the other side.
If you completely screw down a strip on one side of the gap, then pull the cloth taut using the strip on the opposite side as a handle while you fix that down, and you get the screws evenly spaced and more or less in line, this can be done very tidily. And because all the tension on the shadecloth is resisted by the whole edge of a rigid and thoroughly screwed-down strip, and not just by the places where the screws pierce the cloth, this assembly would be difficult for an angry adult to tear off the door without tools let alone a six year old.
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 AM on August 22, 2022
It could be stretched and fixed across a door frame using the same method I used to put it up on my pergola: take apart a timber garden trellis to get a bunch of thin wooden strips, staple an edge of the cloth to a strip, then roll it around the strip twice so that there are two thicknesses of shadecloth on both sides.
You'd need to cut corner notches out of the shadecloth patch before rolling the strips onto it, so that the strips make a plain rectangle with no bunched-up corners once they're all rolled on.
Screw the strips to the face of the doorframe with thin bugle headed plasterboard screws, one screw every four inches or so, going straight through the strip and all the shadecloth layers wrapped around it. On the door in the Home Depot image, the shadecloth fixing strips could go right next to the outside of the existing moulding, and the shadecloth would come out from under a fixing strip and stretch up and over the mouldings to the other side.
If you completely screw down a strip on one side of the gap, then pull the cloth taut using the strip on the opposite side as a handle while you fix that down, and you get the screws evenly spaced and more or less in line, this can be done very tidily. And because all the tension on the shadecloth is resisted by the whole edge of a rigid and thoroughly screwed-down strip, and not just by the places where the screws pierce the cloth, this assembly would be difficult for an angry adult to tear off the door without tools let alone a six year old.
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 AM on August 22, 2022
Response by poster: The door is made of fairly thin metal and there’s a limit to how much screwing can be done to it. So I can see how the screen door grille would work - four screws - but adding a new shade cloth screen would require more screws and would likely end poorly for the structural integrity of the storm door.
Header could work but is the header attached to the door or the frame? If frame, it would look really weird with the actual door itself occluded by the header.
posted by sciencegeek at 12:24 PM on August 22, 2022
Header could work but is the header attached to the door or the frame? If frame, it would look really weird with the actual door itself occluded by the header.
posted by sciencegeek at 12:24 PM on August 22, 2022
Best answer: We added a screen door grill to thwart the kids and cat. Worked great!
posted by Wavelet at 12:38 PM on August 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Wavelet at 12:38 PM on August 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Best answer: My header is attached to the frame (painted to match it) and doesn't look weird, but that could depend on the style of your interior door.
posted by metasarah at 1:55 PM on August 22, 2022
posted by metasarah at 1:55 PM on August 22, 2022
Best answer: Yep, the screen door grill is the exact solution you are looking for. Works for big dumb dogs too!
posted by rockindata at 4:08 PM on August 22, 2022
posted by rockindata at 4:08 PM on August 22, 2022
The door is made of fairly thin metal and there’s a limit to how much screwing can be done to it.
The point of using a lot of screws - one every four inches of fixing strip - is that spreading a load over a lot of screws means that no individual screw, and no individual screw fixing point, ends up heavily loaded.
The trellis timber I used to fix my shadecloth to my pergola is not terribly strong stuff either - it's low-grade rough-sawn treated pine, 7mm thick if it's lucky - but when it's screwed down flat with a screw every four inches, and only required to resist loads applied parallel to its flatness rather than loads that would bend it away from the surface it's screwed down to, it becomes very strong indeed.
For fixing back to extruded aluminium or formed steel sheet, I'd use self-tapping screws into undersized pilot holes so that the screw shanks and not only their threads stretch and displace metal as they go in, and not overtighten them to the extent that the threads start to strip out. Done carefully I would expect the resulting assembly to reinforce the door rather than weakening it.
You could even run a generous bead of epoxy glue along each strip before screwing it to the door, so that the epoxy gets pushed into the weave of the shadecloth as the strip clamps down and thereby forms a fibre-reinforced resin layer between the strip and the metal of the door. That would definitely strengthen the door, but it would be a pain in the arse to remove if the shadecloth ever did get torn up and needed replacing.
posted by flabdablet at 2:12 AM on August 23, 2022
The point of using a lot of screws - one every four inches of fixing strip - is that spreading a load over a lot of screws means that no individual screw, and no individual screw fixing point, ends up heavily loaded.
The trellis timber I used to fix my shadecloth to my pergola is not terribly strong stuff either - it's low-grade rough-sawn treated pine, 7mm thick if it's lucky - but when it's screwed down flat with a screw every four inches, and only required to resist loads applied parallel to its flatness rather than loads that would bend it away from the surface it's screwed down to, it becomes very strong indeed.
For fixing back to extruded aluminium or formed steel sheet, I'd use self-tapping screws into undersized pilot holes so that the screw shanks and not only their threads stretch and displace metal as they go in, and not overtighten them to the extent that the threads start to strip out. Done carefully I would expect the resulting assembly to reinforce the door rather than weakening it.
You could even run a generous bead of epoxy glue along each strip before screwing it to the door, so that the epoxy gets pushed into the weave of the shadecloth as the strip clamps down and thereby forms a fibre-reinforced resin layer between the strip and the metal of the door. That would definitely strengthen the door, but it would be a pain in the arse to remove if the shadecloth ever did get torn up and needed replacing.
posted by flabdablet at 2:12 AM on August 23, 2022
Add a "picture frame" of wood around the opening on both inside and outside of the door. Might not be pretty, but if you screw every few inches you'll have a frame you can mount anything to.
posted by flimflam at 8:52 AM on August 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by flimflam at 8:52 AM on August 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
You could even include members in such a picture frame that are the same thickness as the door and fit just inside the opening to make it slightly smaller, allowing you to screw or even bolt the inner and outer parts of the frame to each other through those members in such a way as to make the frame impossible to remove from the opening even though no crushing pressure at all gets applied to the existing door structure, and no screw holes need to be made in it.
posted by flabdablet at 12:18 PM on August 23, 2022
posted by flabdablet at 12:18 PM on August 23, 2022
I have built "kid proof" screen doors for our beach house. The most rugged option is a piece of hardware cloth. Create a wood frame to go over the edges. Rather than screw the frame to the door, drill all of the way though. Attach with bolts and nuts. Less rugged than hardware cloth would be an additional layer of screen, but tough like bronze or stainless steel. Attach to same way.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 12:56 PM on August 23, 2022
posted by Midnight Skulker at 12:56 PM on August 23, 2022
Could you make your own door using narrow planks, hardware cloth, screen mesh and a staple gun to attach the mesh and the hardware cloth to the wood? It would look like hell, but it would be cheap.
Here is a site with plans to give you an idea how big a project it would be.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:13 PM on August 23, 2022
Here is a site with plans to give you an idea how big a project it would be.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:13 PM on August 23, 2022
Response by poster: We are going to get a screen door grille and see if that works.
Thank you all for the ideas.
posted by sciencegeek at 4:35 AM on August 24, 2022
Thank you all for the ideas.
posted by sciencegeek at 4:35 AM on August 24, 2022
Response by poster: Update: screen door grille is installed and working. Kid did test the system out by putting his hand through the remaining space below the grille and forcing us to yet again reinstall the screening, but he only did it twice and then seems to have lost interest as it wasn't as much fun as putting his hand through the whole thing.
posted by sciencegeek at 5:26 PM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sciencegeek at 5:26 PM on September 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
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These mount with adhesive and velcro, and I assume you might have a grab-and-pull challenge with the curtains, so I'd say start with the cheapest curtains you can find and see how that goes.
This would mean removing the storm door entirely, but you should be able to do that in a way that you can put it back on later if desired.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:04 AM on August 22, 2022 [3 favorites]