Attraction and Anxiety
July 21, 2022 6:58 AM Subscribe
I'm a fortysomething man who recently met someone with whom I have a lot in common, but she is anxious about a possible relationship. I really like her, but I want to respect her feelings and not put any pressure on her. How should I proceed?
At the suggestion of a friend, I recently began texting with a woman who I met briefly years ago. We soon discovered that we had a lot in common and we began to gently flirt with each other. I asked her out over the phone and we agreed to meet up once I recovered from an injury. But a couple weeks later, we were talking on the phone again when she told me that she was feeling really anxious about a possible relationship and that she wanted to just be friends. I was disappointed, but I certainly don't want to cause her anxiety, so I told her that was no problem.
A little background: we have similar physical disabilities and neither one of us has much experience with relationships. I have heard through the grapevine that she is attracted to me, but for whatever reason, she gets anxious when contemplating a possible relationship between us.
Should I just be content being friends with this amazing woman and give her the space she needs to figure out how she feels about me? We still have not hung out in person yet, but I'm hoping we can do so soon. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
At the suggestion of a friend, I recently began texting with a woman who I met briefly years ago. We soon discovered that we had a lot in common and we began to gently flirt with each other. I asked her out over the phone and we agreed to meet up once I recovered from an injury. But a couple weeks later, we were talking on the phone again when she told me that she was feeling really anxious about a possible relationship and that she wanted to just be friends. I was disappointed, but I certainly don't want to cause her anxiety, so I told her that was no problem.
A little background: we have similar physical disabilities and neither one of us has much experience with relationships. I have heard through the grapevine that she is attracted to me, but for whatever reason, she gets anxious when contemplating a possible relationship between us.
Should I just be content being friends with this amazing woman and give her the space she needs to figure out how she feels about me? We still have not hung out in person yet, but I'm hoping we can do so soon. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Should I just be content being friends with this amazing woman
Yes. In all relationships based on mutual respect and consent, you do not get to decide how someone else feels, and should work on accepting that.
posted by Ardnamurchan at 7:16 AM on July 21, 2022 [10 favorites]
Yes. In all relationships based on mutual respect and consent, you do not get to decide how someone else feels, and should work on accepting that.
posted by Ardnamurchan at 7:16 AM on July 21, 2022 [10 favorites]
Yes just give her space, be friends and see where it leads. Zero pressure just enjoy her company.
Some people are like birds, leave your open hand out long enough and they’ll come sit and sing all day but try to grab them and they’ll nope outta there.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:38 AM on July 21, 2022 [19 favorites]
Some people are like birds, leave your open hand out long enough and they’ll come sit and sing all day but try to grab them and they’ll nope outta there.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:38 AM on July 21, 2022 [19 favorites]
(By the way I was a similarly anxious dater and shut down more than a few guys who got way too excited about me too early on; it is just them running away with their own emotions and not us together feeling something. They gave it no time to breathe and brew naturally. That or their natural pace was just not my own. My hubby got in there because it was just casual lunch and dating was NEVER mentioned and it gave time for us to talk and get to know and for feelings to develop.)
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:04 AM on July 21, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:04 AM on July 21, 2022 [11 favorites]
My current partner is someone I asked out early on in our friendship. They said no due to their own particular fears, and later, after we got much closer, we discussed it again and decided to try it.
But. What made it work is, during the intervening years, I wasn't approaching them with an agenda. I still had my crush, but I was keeping it to myself and just trying to be a good friend, and I assumed that friends was all we would ever be.
If you can't approach a close friendship that way — with the genuine assumption that you'll stay friends and a sincere feeling that that's okay — then it's probably best to have a less close friendship. Which sucks, but resentment and hidden agendas suck harder.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:13 AM on July 21, 2022 [12 favorites]
But. What made it work is, during the intervening years, I wasn't approaching them with an agenda. I still had my crush, but I was keeping it to myself and just trying to be a good friend, and I assumed that friends was all we would ever be.
If you can't approach a close friendship that way — with the genuine assumption that you'll stay friends and a sincere feeling that that's okay — then it's probably best to have a less close friendship. Which sucks, but resentment and hidden agendas suck harder.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:13 AM on July 21, 2022 [12 favorites]
Yes, be friends. The concern is that you'll be "friendzoned" - that is, being friends will permanently prohibit you from ever having a romantic relationship with this person - which is not actually a thing, especially at your age. If you build a friendship with her, there are two possible outcomes. Either she'll continue to not want a relationship, in which case you're no worse than if you weren't friends, or she'll spend some time with you, get over her anxiety, and decide that a relationship might actually be possible. Either way, you've got a cool new friend, whereas if you don't try to be friends, this person is pretty much out of your life. I guess there's a third option, which is to somehow force her to be in a romantic relationship with you, but come on. First, re-read that last sentence and think about if that's the kind of person you actually want to be, and second, if it somehow is the kind of person you want to be, how do you think that would work out? Be friends; you've got nothing to lose.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:13 AM on July 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 8:13 AM on July 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
You also don't have to be a close friend, if you don't think you can set aside your romantic feelings. You can turn down the dial a little to "friendly acquaintance" if it feels like anything closer would be an exercise in frustration. I think the key is not applying pressure to the relationship.
posted by PussKillian at 8:25 AM on July 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by PussKillian at 8:25 AM on July 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Would this feel okay for you? You are not obligated to be friends with her and develop that friendship.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:34 AM on July 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 8:34 AM on July 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
Be friends, and *mean* it. It’s not hard to tell when someone has an agenda and it is very annoying vetting everything you say to make sure you’re not feeding their fantasy.
And as was said above, don’t worry about the dreaded friendzone. Compartmentalization is for the young, older people have the maturity to change their minds.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:40 AM on July 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
And as was said above, don’t worry about the dreaded friendzone. Compartmentalization is for the young, older people have the maturity to change their minds.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:40 AM on July 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
If you would like a relationship with someone, then say "I am interested in you and would like to pursue a relationship." The ideal time to do this is before she's said she's not interested in a relationship, or in immediate response to her saying so. Since you have presumably already responded to her saying so, you can say "I was bummed to hear you aren't interested in a relationship because I find you interesting and attractive and would like to get to know you better. If knowing that changes your mind, great, but I respect your choice and won't pursue anything. I just want to be straightforward about my feelings the way you've been up front with me about yours." Not that you have to be her friend, but if you do, then honesty is as important there as it is in romantic relationships, and putting it out there removes some of the weird vibes that accompany unspoken/unrequited affection.
posted by headnsouth at 9:38 AM on July 21, 2022
posted by headnsouth at 9:38 AM on July 21, 2022
I've given people the "soft turndown" in varying shades to many times I can see it from a mile off. The problem is that people rarely understand that's what's happening. There's a hopeful tendency in people to think there's a "problem" or a barrier that can be solved or removed with the right code. Sometimes I agree to go out with someone, or flirt with them, and discover for whatever reason I'm not feeling it.
Sure, there's a slim possibility she really is into you but fear is holding her back. The much more likely explanation is that she's not into you that way but she likes and respects your company as a friend and wants to keep it, thus what I call the "soft turndown" (I am deliberately not using the word rejection because it's not a rejection of a relationship, just a romantic/sexual one).
Good wishes from a fellow disabled person. I hope things work out well for you.
It sounds like you enrich each other's lives and enjoy one another's company. Enjoy that, because that in and of itself is rare and precious. Tell her you are taking her at her word that dating you isn't right for her, tell her you'd like to be her friend, and then never ever bring it up again unless she does.
Incidentally there are friends who have grown on me a couple of times, who I might have considered dating, but in each case they fucked it up lunging at me when I depressed and vulnerable, or some other thing that made me distrust them. If she ever does change her mind, she must be the one to tell you that, unprompted, and I cannot stress that part enough.
posted by liminal_shadows at 9:40 AM on July 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
Sure, there's a slim possibility she really is into you but fear is holding her back. The much more likely explanation is that she's not into you that way but she likes and respects your company as a friend and wants to keep it, thus what I call the "soft turndown" (I am deliberately not using the word rejection because it's not a rejection of a relationship, just a romantic/sexual one).
Good wishes from a fellow disabled person. I hope things work out well for you.
It sounds like you enrich each other's lives and enjoy one another's company. Enjoy that, because that in and of itself is rare and precious. Tell her you are taking her at her word that dating you isn't right for her, tell her you'd like to be her friend, and then never ever bring it up again unless she does.
Incidentally there are friends who have grown on me a couple of times, who I might have considered dating, but in each case they fucked it up lunging at me when I depressed and vulnerable, or some other thing that made me distrust them. If she ever does change her mind, she must be the one to tell you that, unprompted, and I cannot stress that part enough.
posted by liminal_shadows at 9:40 AM on July 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
You can avoid putting pressure on someone by listening to what they say and respecting what they ask for.
I think what is important here is to own your decision and its consequences. If, for example, you decide to be a friend because on balance the friendship has value to you, that's fine so long as you are: honest with them that's what you're doing, honest with yourself that you're not holding out for something more from them, and most importantly that if you feel a little heartache you remember that you are responsible for it as a predictable consequence of your decision, so it's on you to deal with it.
posted by larkery at 9:46 AM on July 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think what is important here is to own your decision and its consequences. If, for example, you decide to be a friend because on balance the friendship has value to you, that's fine so long as you are: honest with them that's what you're doing, honest with yourself that you're not holding out for something more from them, and most importantly that if you feel a little heartache you remember that you are responsible for it as a predictable consequence of your decision, so it's on you to deal with it.
posted by larkery at 9:46 AM on July 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hi, I am living this situation right now and have been for years! Let me pretend I have advice for you!
If you feel that there may be more in time, knowing that nothing may change at all, are you willing to meet her as a friend in good faith? If so, and if that situation doesn't make you uncomfortable, then you've got the makings of open-ended possibility on your hands....For what it's worth, the relationship I'm in now started very similar to this. It felt very old fashioned (for lack of a better way to put it) because I was tasked with very strictly being a friend while also making it cautiously clear to him in right moments that I had greater-than-friend feelings for him. I guess you could say I was wooing him (for a year and a half) before we could speak about leaving behind the just-friends label.
"My current partner is someone I asked out early on in our friendship. They said no due to their own particular fears, and later, after we got much closer, we discussed it again and decided to try it.
But. What made it work is, during the intervening years, I wasn't approaching them with an agenda. I still had my crush, but I was keeping it to myself and just trying to be a good friend, and I assumed that friends was all we would ever be."
Yeah, pretty much these examples, right here. It's this whole ambiguous living-in-limbo sorta thing, waiting to see what happens without pushing it. It took awhile to figure out that the crush did likey-like me in the first place, and he kinda had a freakout upon deducing that for himself, which threw me off for like a week. He still hasn't told me whatall is the holdup on his end, exactly, maybe he's unable to spit it out. After a few years of this, I did actually get fed up on waiting and asked him out in November 2021 and he said no and didn't specify why the no. I probably would have avoided him forevermore after that, except we were in a show together...and have continued to manage to slowly get closer since somehow anyway. I planned on never asking him out again after that unless SOMETHING changed on his end, and it seems to have started as of June...as in he wanted to go out with me a few weeks ago and there's another possible date ("date?") pending next month, depending on his work schedule (we'll see). No, we haven't made out or anything like that, but he has a food allergy so spontaneous makeouts are a no-go, and I presume we'd have to discuss in great detail if we ever go there anyway. I kind of reasonably assume that particular issue is at least some of the holdup, given what I've read about dating with food allergies. I don't know if y'all's disabilities may be a factor in this or not, but it might be for her.
In my case, it's REALLY clear he's attracted to me and this has gotten more obvious, presumably to all and sundry, as time has gone on. Like I read this article and even though we are not secretly badonkadonking, was all "we do 1, 3, 13, and 20 for sure...." So that helps. I can't speak for your having an Internet-only connection on that score, but there's a difference when you are sure they do like you back Like That but are having their own fears/reservations, vs. if they don't seem to like you back romantically. I would definitely not even bother waiting around on the latter situation if they aren't feeling it. In your case, it may take awhile to suss out and I do feel like you need to spend some time together IRL in order to do that. But overall, proceed platonically with low to no expectations, if you can, and maybe it changes and maybe it doesn't. Some people really need to do friends-first with no major pressure or expectations, and if you can do that indefinitely, this might work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:46 AM on July 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you feel that there may be more in time, knowing that nothing may change at all, are you willing to meet her as a friend in good faith? If so, and if that situation doesn't make you uncomfortable, then you've got the makings of open-ended possibility on your hands....For what it's worth, the relationship I'm in now started very similar to this. It felt very old fashioned (for lack of a better way to put it) because I was tasked with very strictly being a friend while also making it cautiously clear to him in right moments that I had greater-than-friend feelings for him. I guess you could say I was wooing him (for a year and a half) before we could speak about leaving behind the just-friends label.
"My current partner is someone I asked out early on in our friendship. They said no due to their own particular fears, and later, after we got much closer, we discussed it again and decided to try it.
But. What made it work is, during the intervening years, I wasn't approaching them with an agenda. I still had my crush, but I was keeping it to myself and just trying to be a good friend, and I assumed that friends was all we would ever be."
Yeah, pretty much these examples, right here. It's this whole ambiguous living-in-limbo sorta thing, waiting to see what happens without pushing it. It took awhile to figure out that the crush did likey-like me in the first place, and he kinda had a freakout upon deducing that for himself, which threw me off for like a week. He still hasn't told me whatall is the holdup on his end, exactly, maybe he's unable to spit it out. After a few years of this, I did actually get fed up on waiting and asked him out in November 2021 and he said no and didn't specify why the no. I probably would have avoided him forevermore after that, except we were in a show together...and have continued to manage to slowly get closer since somehow anyway. I planned on never asking him out again after that unless SOMETHING changed on his end, and it seems to have started as of June...as in he wanted to go out with me a few weeks ago and there's another possible date ("date?") pending next month, depending on his work schedule (we'll see). No, we haven't made out or anything like that, but he has a food allergy so spontaneous makeouts are a no-go, and I presume we'd have to discuss in great detail if we ever go there anyway. I kind of reasonably assume that particular issue is at least some of the holdup, given what I've read about dating with food allergies. I don't know if y'all's disabilities may be a factor in this or not, but it might be for her.
In my case, it's REALLY clear he's attracted to me and this has gotten more obvious, presumably to all and sundry, as time has gone on. Like I read this article and even though we are not secretly badonkadonking, was all "we do 1, 3, 13, and 20 for sure...." So that helps. I can't speak for your having an Internet-only connection on that score, but there's a difference when you are sure they do like you back Like That but are having their own fears/reservations, vs. if they don't seem to like you back romantically. I would definitely not even bother waiting around on the latter situation if they aren't feeling it. In your case, it may take awhile to suss out and I do feel like you need to spend some time together IRL in order to do that. But overall, proceed platonically with low to no expectations, if you can, and maybe it changes and maybe it doesn't. Some people really need to do friends-first with no major pressure or expectations, and if you can do that indefinitely, this might work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:46 AM on July 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
give her the space she needs to figure out how she feels about me
She doesn't need you to "give her space." She has already figured out how she feels and has communicated that to you clearly. Listen to her. Believe her. And if you can't stop feeling that if you're just patient enough she'll eventually come around and start dating you, leave her alone entirely.
posted by jesourie at 10:31 AM on July 21, 2022 [15 favorites]
She doesn't need you to "give her space." She has already figured out how she feels and has communicated that to you clearly. Listen to her. Believe her. And if you can't stop feeling that if you're just patient enough she'll eventually come around and start dating you, leave her alone entirely.
posted by jesourie at 10:31 AM on July 21, 2022 [15 favorites]
Nthing "just be friends." Things might change down the road, who knows, but for now, just be friends. As one who is in a relationship going on 50 years, perhaps I'm not qualified to advise on this question, but it occurs to me that the thing to do is move beyond texting and phone calls, but not to cross the line into "relationship." It would be best to discuss exactly how you both think about that, where that line is, and whether that is OK with both of you. In my mind, a lot of activities could be part of being friends: going for walks or hikes, going to museums or galleries, going shopping, going out to lunch (but not to dinner), going fishing (if you happen to like that), hanging out and watching TV, etc. I have known people who are just friends (really) who would regularly go ballroom dancing together. Others might see that as only possible in a "relationship." Which is why it all merits some discussion, but it's definitely possible.
posted by beagle at 10:50 AM on July 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by beagle at 10:50 AM on July 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some people do need space. And if you believe she is amazing, then it's a true show of respect to this amazing person to honor what she's verbalized to you.
posted by mirepoix at 10:55 AM on July 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mirepoix at 10:55 AM on July 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I can edit my post down to just "honor what she's verbalized to you," since boundaries are pretty non-negotiable, but if you want to play the long game with someone you're fond of, then how you act now is important.
posted by mirepoix at 10:58 AM on July 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mirepoix at 10:58 AM on July 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do you want to be friends with her? Then pursue a friendship without a secret agenda or hopes it will turn into a romantic relationship. Do you want to date her? She already told you she isn't interested, so leave her alone and move on.
posted by emd3737 at 12:21 PM on July 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by emd3737 at 12:21 PM on July 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
I wanted to jump in to add my support for believing that “I have anxiety about relationships and just want to be friends” does not always equal “go away I do not like you romantically at all and never will.” This kind of statement is best interpreted as honest and genuine and not some kind of cowardly-vague-limp rejection of the possibilities of a romantic connection.
The reason is that for those who do have significant concerns and/or anxiety about dating and being relationships, it is incredibly — incredibly! — difficult to articulate that. It is much, much harder than rejecting someone more firmly by saying “I am not interested in you romantically, but I would like to be friends.” One statement is about what they fear and how they see themselves and the other is about how they see you.
When someone musters up the will and self-awareness to tell someone that they have anxiety about dating and being in relationships, but want to continue a connection with you, even “just” as friends, you must accept and respect that at face value, as noted by many above. And, also, please recognize that as a statement that should be taken at face-value, it also evidence that someone is taking a great risk and adopting a very vulnerable stance with you. They are sharing intimate news. You don’t do that with someone you don’t care about unless you’re a pathological narcissist trying to manipulate someone into something, and that is certainly not the case here. What she has said is that she likes you fine, but dating and relationships make her anxious, and she doesn’t want to do that. If that changes, I suspect she’d let you know.
So feel honored and grateful that this amazing woman you are interested in is willing to share intimate news with you, news that is really hard to articulate even to oneself. Respect it, provide space, and treat it with the dignity it deserves: treat it as true, and not some fudge on the truth. It sounds like you are already doing that, so good for you.
By the way, it is this type of honest and vulnerability that is the basis of any good friendship, let alone any good relationship. And of course, any good relationship is based on a good friendship. So you’re in the right place with this amazing woman at the moment. Don’t press, don’t reject, don’t doubt, just be.
posted by desert exile at 1:20 PM on July 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
The reason is that for those who do have significant concerns and/or anxiety about dating and being relationships, it is incredibly — incredibly! — difficult to articulate that. It is much, much harder than rejecting someone more firmly by saying “I am not interested in you romantically, but I would like to be friends.” One statement is about what they fear and how they see themselves and the other is about how they see you.
When someone musters up the will and self-awareness to tell someone that they have anxiety about dating and being in relationships, but want to continue a connection with you, even “just” as friends, you must accept and respect that at face value, as noted by many above. And, also, please recognize that as a statement that should be taken at face-value, it also evidence that someone is taking a great risk and adopting a very vulnerable stance with you. They are sharing intimate news. You don’t do that with someone you don’t care about unless you’re a pathological narcissist trying to manipulate someone into something, and that is certainly not the case here. What she has said is that she likes you fine, but dating and relationships make her anxious, and she doesn’t want to do that. If that changes, I suspect she’d let you know.
So feel honored and grateful that this amazing woman you are interested in is willing to share intimate news with you, news that is really hard to articulate even to oneself. Respect it, provide space, and treat it with the dignity it deserves: treat it as true, and not some fudge on the truth. It sounds like you are already doing that, so good for you.
By the way, it is this type of honest and vulnerability that is the basis of any good friendship, let alone any good relationship. And of course, any good relationship is based on a good friendship. So you’re in the right place with this amazing woman at the moment. Don’t press, don’t reject, don’t doubt, just be.
posted by desert exile at 1:20 PM on July 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
I recently got out of an entanglement with someone I loved deeply, who loved me too, but who was unable to commit to a relationship, for their own anxiety-related reasons. I was very clear that I wanted a relationship. They were unclear, but ultimately said they couldn't be in a relationship, despite loving me and wanting to continue to see me. We spent two years with me waiting for them to be "ready." They never were. I'm miserable. I do not recommend anything resembling "waiting" for this person.
give her the space she needs to figure out how she feels about me
She doesn't need you to "give her space." She has already figured out how she feels and has communicated that to you clearly. Listen to her. Believe her. And if you can't stop feeling that if you're just patient enough she'll eventually come around and start dating you, leave her alone entirely.
THIS
posted by decathecting at 2:32 PM on July 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
give her the space she needs to figure out how she feels about me
She doesn't need you to "give her space." She has already figured out how she feels and has communicated that to you clearly. Listen to her. Believe her. And if you can't stop feeling that if you're just patient enough she'll eventually come around and start dating you, leave her alone entirely.
THIS
posted by decathecting at 2:32 PM on July 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
Being unwilling to wait for someone who isn't ready on principle because they may never be ready is kind of like being unwilling to risk anything in love because it might not work out. People are often never ready. Love often doesn't work out at all, even when both people are ready. You could wait two years for someone to be ready and be miserable that they never were. You could wait six months, be ecstatic that they are finally ready, get together, and it could fall apart 18 months later for a million reasons and you could be miserable. Same time frame. Which is "worse" or "better"? The question is pointless.
First principle in any good relationship: communicate, give people a chance, believe and respect what they say, rejoice when it works out, be grateful for the experience when it doesn't, move on. Anything else is foolish. But that isn't foolish.
posted by desert exile at 6:18 PM on July 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
First principle in any good relationship: communicate, give people a chance, believe and respect what they say, rejoice when it works out, be grateful for the experience when it doesn't, move on. Anything else is foolish. But that isn't foolish.
posted by desert exile at 6:18 PM on July 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Should I just be content being friends with this amazing woman and give her the space she needs to figure out how she feels about me?
Respectfully, she's already figured that out and literally told you pretty darn clearly:
she told me that she was feeling really anxious about a possible relationship and that she wanted to just be friends.
You should only be friends with her if you genuinely would be happy with it being "only" friendship forever, and never turning into anything more. Since she's already verbalized her feelings to you, entering into a friendship in hopes it could lead to more would be really disrespectful to her.
posted by augustimagination at 1:36 AM on July 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Respectfully, she's already figured that out and literally told you pretty darn clearly:
she told me that she was feeling really anxious about a possible relationship and that she wanted to just be friends.
You should only be friends with her if you genuinely would be happy with it being "only" friendship forever, and never turning into anything more. Since she's already verbalized her feelings to you, entering into a friendship in hopes it could lead to more would be really disrespectful to her.
posted by augustimagination at 1:36 AM on July 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
For what it's worth, the relationship I'm in now started very similar to this. It felt very old fashioned (for lack of a better way to put it) because I was tasked with very strictly being a friend while also making it cautiously clear to him in right moments that I had greater-than-friend feelings for him. I guess you could say I was wooing him (for a year and a half) before we could speak about leaving behind the just-friends label.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:10 AM on July 21, 2022 [5 favorites]