Tamagotchi for videogame-addicted kid?
July 19, 2022 10:01 AM Subscribe
My wife got hoodwinked into installing the game Forest on her phone which she thought would be a calming diversion for our 6-year-old. Unfortunately, Forest is actually designed to be addictive and exploitative rather than calming, and even the pro version dangles in-app purchases. My kiddo is hooked on it, resentful that we won't allow the in-app purchases, and demands to play it all times of day. Should I buy him an (original) Tamagotchi as an alternative?
Knowing how evil Forest is, we still can't just uninstall it and cut our kid off because that would be really grossly violating his agency and desires. But I'd like to organically get him onto something else instead. But this hasn't been easy.
It's not so much that our kid is addicted to screen time, as that this is a recurring battle between us and creates a lot of conflict. I bought him a handheld Mario game to get him off Forest, but instead of a replacement it's just become an addition. When offered Mario, he won't stop playing it on his own so we have to set time limits and take it away when time is up: another battle.
Tamagotchi seems similar in spirit to Forest, without the exploitative part. So I'm wondering if it's something we can just let him have, and play with whenever he wants, without setting time limits. I'm referring to the original Tamagotchi, to be clear.
However, I didn't grow up with Tamagotchi and don't know anything about it.
I don't want my kid to be hooked on games or screens to the exclusion of everything else, but I'm more worried about the constant conflict we have over this matter.
For full context, my kid is autistic and has ADHD. He has a hard time with transitions, poor impulse control and poor sensory integration, all of which lead to often dysregulation and behavior issues, but otherwise does not need high levels of support.
Knowing how evil Forest is, we still can't just uninstall it and cut our kid off because that would be really grossly violating his agency and desires. But I'd like to organically get him onto something else instead. But this hasn't been easy.
It's not so much that our kid is addicted to screen time, as that this is a recurring battle between us and creates a lot of conflict. I bought him a handheld Mario game to get him off Forest, but instead of a replacement it's just become an addition. When offered Mario, he won't stop playing it on his own so we have to set time limits and take it away when time is up: another battle.
Tamagotchi seems similar in spirit to Forest, without the exploitative part. So I'm wondering if it's something we can just let him have, and play with whenever he wants, without setting time limits. I'm referring to the original Tamagotchi, to be clear.
However, I didn't grow up with Tamagotchi and don't know anything about it.
I don't want my kid to be hooked on games or screens to the exclusion of everything else, but I'm more worried about the constant conflict we have over this matter.
For full context, my kid is autistic and has ADHD. He has a hard time with transitions, poor impulse control and poor sensory integration, all of which lead to often dysregulation and behavior issues, but otherwise does not need high levels of support.
I think it's a really interesting idea. I have two different thoughts.
One is, the buying yourself out of the situation is starting to sound a bit like the lady who swallowed the fly here. Parenting 6 year olds is so hard already and I bet with the other challenges it is really well, challenging so totally get it.
But I don't think you will be able to present him with a self-directed substitute for Forest. At 6 he's got the combination of the lack of self-control alongside a heck of a lot of capacity to not be distracted like you could do when he was toddler (maybe?)
When we've had to detox our kids we've often had to do things with them to make that break. (For us we made it a clean break. Moderation on this one thing was not possible for my kid at 6 with Highly Addictive Media.)
So personally I would plan for time with you, not a Tamagotchi.
However, if you do want to try another round of buying a substitute, I would suggest involving your child in the decision. 6 is a hard age in a lot of ways, and so it won't be as straightforward as if he were like, 11. But I think that's a good way to honour his agency and still hold true to your values about exploitative media.
You could tell him your thoughts and show him some videos. If he doesn't care, I wouldn't waste your money. It's really different than something with a game-level adrenaline/reward/dopamine curve.
If you ask him to help problem-solve, you might be surprised. My child eventually asked for a basketball to "deal with" the summer media restrictions which was like, not what I was thinking at all but he picked what was right for him and spent a lot of time at the hoops down the road.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:29 AM on July 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
One is, the buying yourself out of the situation is starting to sound a bit like the lady who swallowed the fly here. Parenting 6 year olds is so hard already and I bet with the other challenges it is really well, challenging so totally get it.
But I don't think you will be able to present him with a self-directed substitute for Forest. At 6 he's got the combination of the lack of self-control alongside a heck of a lot of capacity to not be distracted like you could do when he was toddler (maybe?)
When we've had to detox our kids we've often had to do things with them to make that break. (For us we made it a clean break. Moderation on this one thing was not possible for my kid at 6 with Highly Addictive Media.)
So personally I would plan for time with you, not a Tamagotchi.
However, if you do want to try another round of buying a substitute, I would suggest involving your child in the decision. 6 is a hard age in a lot of ways, and so it won't be as straightforward as if he were like, 11. But I think that's a good way to honour his agency and still hold true to your values about exploitative media.
You could tell him your thoughts and show him some videos. If he doesn't care, I wouldn't waste your money. It's really different than something with a game-level adrenaline/reward/dopamine curve.
If you ask him to help problem-solve, you might be surprised. My child eventually asked for a basketball to "deal with" the summer media restrictions which was like, not what I was thinking at all but he picked what was right for him and spent a lot of time at the hoops down the road.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:29 AM on July 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
I have a child with very addictive screen time behavior, so I will be watching this thread closely. Tamagotchi seem less insidious than modern screens, but I have never used one.
In the mean time, I'd suggest you turn on Screen Time limits on your wife's phone. Painful experience has taught me that limits imposed by the device are much less fraught than limits imposed by parents.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 10:46 AM on July 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
In the mean time, I'd suggest you turn on Screen Time limits on your wife's phone. Painful experience has taught me that limits imposed by the device are much less fraught than limits imposed by parents.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 10:46 AM on July 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
There will be constant conflict with screen time and transitions, I'm so sorry to tell you, at least until very firm boundaries are established. But I think it's really important to understand that A LOT of parenting is conflict. My son was a lot like yours at that age, and only by being SUPER consistent and SUPER boundary-oriented did we move out of the conflict over transitions period. And he still struggles with transitions a bit even now (at age 25) but at least now we're not part of it! :)
From what I remember of Tamagotchi, they can be incredibly addictive to kids with the right personality for it, and it seems like your kid would be that kind of kid.
And for what it's worth, yes, you absolutely can cut him off of Forest if you believe as his parent that it is causing more harm than good. He's six and is unable to tell what's good for him and what isn't. There are ways to have that discussion with him that let him know he is loved and cared for and you're not cutting him off because he's bad or because you're just mean.
posted by cooker girl at 10:46 AM on July 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
From what I remember of Tamagotchi, they can be incredibly addictive to kids with the right personality for it, and it seems like your kid would be that kind of kid.
And for what it's worth, yes, you absolutely can cut him off of Forest if you believe as his parent that it is causing more harm than good. He's six and is unable to tell what's good for him and what isn't. There are ways to have that discussion with him that let him know he is loved and cared for and you're not cutting him off because he's bad or because you're just mean.
posted by cooker girl at 10:46 AM on July 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
I was a kid in the 90s: Tamagotchi are super super super addictive!
posted by lokta at 11:23 AM on July 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by lokta at 11:23 AM on July 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
You may want to ask about your pediatric ADHD specialist about EndeavorRX a game designed for children with ADHD. It's supposed to improve his attention span, but it's supposedly prescription only, and it's kind expensive. He's out of the age range (recommended 8-12) but who knows?
posted by kschang at 11:51 AM on July 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by kschang at 11:51 AM on July 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
I mean, the makers of this app have already deliberately hacked your kid's "agency and desires." Addictive games use well-understood techniques to spike players' dopamine levels in ways that then bleed the enjoyment out of other life activities, creating a painful feeling of lack or depression when not actively playing.
Your poor kid's brain is responding predictably to the programming it's been given by insisting on more screentime, because in the short-term that relieves the pain (that the game created!). But why on earth would you respect that programming, any more than you would keep giving him extra lunch money to pacify a bully who twists his arm at recess? Just take away the screen, grit your teeth through the ~2-3 rough weeks it'll take for his dopamine levels to reset, and give the poor kid back the ability to enjoy other things in his life.
posted by Bardolph at 1:06 PM on July 19, 2022 [25 favorites]
Your poor kid's brain is responding predictably to the programming it's been given by insisting on more screentime, because in the short-term that relieves the pain (that the game created!). But why on earth would you respect that programming, any more than you would keep giving him extra lunch money to pacify a bully who twists his arm at recess? Just take away the screen, grit your teeth through the ~2-3 rough weeks it'll take for his dopamine levels to reset, and give the poor kid back the ability to enjoy other things in his life.
posted by Bardolph at 1:06 PM on July 19, 2022 [25 favorites]
FWIW, I don't recommend giving your kid a tamagochi. I was NOT diagnosed with ADHD, but it could explain my tendency to start and drop projects. I basically learned self-control... decades later.
I once played a lot a mobile game called Star Trek Timelines, then I realized how much of a time suck and money suck it is, as you are tempted to buy crystals to buy more "premium packs". I ended up basically going cold turkey and refused to play any games with microtransactions ever since.
There is an official Tamagochi app but it has in-app purchases.
posted by kschang at 1:24 PM on July 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
I once played a lot a mobile game called Star Trek Timelines, then I realized how much of a time suck and money suck it is, as you are tempted to buy crystals to buy more "premium packs". I ended up basically going cold turkey and refused to play any games with microtransactions ever since.
There is an official Tamagochi app but it has in-app purchases.
posted by kschang at 1:24 PM on July 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
I would not get him a tamagotchi. I worked in a school office in the mid nineties, when they were super popular here in Austria, and children were not allowed to bring them, but many did anyway because they needed to be "fed" on a schedule, and if not fed on time would die/starve. The children took this very serious and teachers would confiscate them and i had a whole drawer of them in the Office, beeping, and crying kids came to collect their dead tamagotchi at the end of school. It is like a pet substitute and if kid gets into it you will have a worse situation than now.
posted by 15L06 at 2:28 PM on July 19, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by 15L06 at 2:28 PM on July 19, 2022 [18 favorites]
Re the forest game, personally i would actually just delete it. Especially as it is not his phone, I would say this is my phone, i need it and claim it back. Your son at six will not be able to come the decision this is evil and addictive and i should stop, you as parents need to stop it. I say this with the benefit of hindsight.
My son is now 13, and conflict about games and screen time and in App purchases have been a constant theme since he was 9 and his father bought him an iPad. Before that he could play only on my iPad, and even then it was problematic and a constant source of conflict. I wish i had been much stricter, even at the risk of major conflict with his dad.
It will only get harder. Now you can, or rather your wife, can say: it is my phone and my rules, i do not want this on my phone.
Re his agency and desires, honestly, let him explore those by all means, but not with an addictive game.
My son has ASD . So i do know how hard it can be and the conflicts IMO only will get worse.
posted by 15L06 at 2:56 PM on July 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
My son is now 13, and conflict about games and screen time and in App purchases have been a constant theme since he was 9 and his father bought him an iPad. Before that he could play only on my iPad, and even then it was problematic and a constant source of conflict. I wish i had been much stricter, even at the risk of major conflict with his dad.
It will only get harder. Now you can, or rather your wife, can say: it is my phone and my rules, i do not want this on my phone.
Re his agency and desires, honestly, let him explore those by all means, but not with an addictive game.
My son has ASD . So i do know how hard it can be and the conflicts IMO only will get worse.
posted by 15L06 at 2:56 PM on July 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
A Game we played together on my iPad when my son was about six to about 8 years, was hay day, a Game where you build and run a farm. It is not very realistic but even i found it satisfying in an odd way to plant and harvest.
When we played it it was possible without in App buys, because i would accumulate points that he spent. Not sure if this still would work because it is about 5 years ago when we played together daily. Because it was my iPad i was able to limit time easier, but still not conflict free. But i promised and did play each day alone also, to get the points and the farm produce required to trade and build more.
Also, Angry Birds was a game he loved at that age, he played that on his dad's iPad. And Playmobil had a game, with the Knights etc he had as real play figures. Back then (5yrs?) No in App buys we're needed.
Another Game He loved at that time was where's my water, an Alligator needs water to shower. It has in App purchases.
Once he had his own iPad, at 9 yrs (too early, see above comment) he started Minecraft and later Roblox. For In App buys he was and still is required to pay from his pocket money (giving US the coins before es bought them). That was one aspect that worked and still works well. This way it is entirely choice what to buy, whether in App or go off buy sweets or Mangas.
He got pocket money from about age seven and i feel it was a good way to give him agency , and also decision power. We never told him to save it and If he blew it all on in App, that was it. I think it was the fact that some purchases He had actually in his hands and some disappeared without trace, and yet the coins were gone.
These days (he is 13), he saves his money. He realised on his own and through experience that in App buys were a waste.
posted by 15L06 at 2:43 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
When we played it it was possible without in App buys, because i would accumulate points that he spent. Not sure if this still would work because it is about 5 years ago when we played together daily. Because it was my iPad i was able to limit time easier, but still not conflict free. But i promised and did play each day alone also, to get the points and the farm produce required to trade and build more.
Also, Angry Birds was a game he loved at that age, he played that on his dad's iPad. And Playmobil had a game, with the Knights etc he had as real play figures. Back then (5yrs?) No in App buys we're needed.
Another Game He loved at that time was where's my water, an Alligator needs water to shower. It has in App purchases.
Once he had his own iPad, at 9 yrs (too early, see above comment) he started Minecraft and later Roblox. For In App buys he was and still is required to pay from his pocket money (giving US the coins before es bought them). That was one aspect that worked and still works well. This way it is entirely choice what to buy, whether in App or go off buy sweets or Mangas.
He got pocket money from about age seven and i feel it was a good way to give him agency , and also decision power. We never told him to save it and If he blew it all on in App, that was it. I think it was the fact that some purchases He had actually in his hands and some disappeared without trace, and yet the coins were gone.
These days (he is 13), he saves his money. He realised on his own and through experience that in App buys were a waste.
posted by 15L06 at 2:43 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
PS i think neither Minecraft Nor Roblox would be suitable for a six year old, only wanted to illustrated that actually the preferred games do change with age. I think on his own he might not have changed but in school he heard about them from class mates.
posted by 15L06 at 2:47 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by 15L06 at 2:47 AM on July 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wanted to recommend you look into the Finch self-care app. There is a free and paid version, but it also isn't designed to get you to play for hours. After you "energize" your Finch, it goes off on an adventure for several hours. It also has "first aid" things that you can do at times of emotional disregulation. My kid has learned about square breathing, but they will actually do it with this app when upset.
posted by skunk pig at 8:12 AM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by skunk pig at 8:12 AM on July 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I had a Tamagotchi when they first came out in the U.S. I was around 10 years old. There's only so much you can do with them and at some point you have to wait for time to pass. Then they beep when they need attention or food. So you may trade disagreements over putting away a game for disagreements over why they cannot use the Tamagotchi at the moment.
As above, our teachers did confiscate them once they realized we had them. They would all start beeping at the same time.
In retrospect, the Tamogotchi prepared me for smartphones and I am much better than most my age at waiting to check notifications.
posted by miscbuff at 9:48 PM on July 20, 2022
As above, our teachers did confiscate them once they realized we had them. They would all start beeping at the same time.
In retrospect, the Tamogotchi prepared me for smartphones and I am much better than most my age at waiting to check notifications.
posted by miscbuff at 9:48 PM on July 20, 2022
This is an interesting question, because in my experience, the Forest app is not actually a game as much as it is a gamified productivity app. So I wonder if you might be able to replace it, not with an actual game that is even more engaging, but something more like the environment-simulating aspect of the app.
Mountain looks like it might be a good fit. It’s described as a relaxing “existential nature simulation” with no DLC that is designed to be played in the background while you do other things. It is technically a game but as one reviewer noted, one that can be a “small but interesting addition to your day”.
posted by KatlaDragon at 8:19 AM on July 23, 2022
Mountain looks like it might be a good fit. It’s described as a relaxing “existential nature simulation” with no DLC that is designed to be played in the background while you do other things. It is technically a game but as one reviewer noted, one that can be a “small but interesting addition to your day”.
posted by KatlaDragon at 8:19 AM on July 23, 2022
I have played Mountain for a little while. It's... weird. Basically you have this little mountain in space between dimensions... and occasionally "trash" from one of the "upper" dimensions will drop onto your mountain. If you do nothing, your mountain will accumulate random "trash" over time, so you have to clean it (grab and toss the stuff off). I am NOT SURE how an OCD child may react to it.
On the other hand, it's just a buck on Steam.
posted by kschang at 8:52 AM on July 23, 2022
On the other hand, it's just a buck on Steam.
posted by kschang at 8:52 AM on July 23, 2022
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I teach middle school, and work with many kids who are neurodivergent: the kids who have good boundaries with technology ultimately respect their parents' choices even if initially it is hard. For many this means cutting off all technology at a certain time or having very limited access until they're 14. You can reduce the time he plays, saying it is only available to him for x-minutes or x-hours a day. He will struggle but can deal and you can always enlist his doctor or therapist for support. I want to say that you know best because, as his parent, you do BUT please don't feel like you have no agency against this game or your son's diagnoses! You've got this!!
Tamagotchis are really cool but work so differently than these interactive games. So I think it'd be fun but less of an alternative and more of an addition or something totally different. I know it's totally different but how about a real pet? Obviously that's way more work and a huge family decision but fluffy friends tend to be so good for all kids and certainly a low-fi distraction.
posted by smorgasbord at 10:10 AM on July 19, 2022 [19 favorites]