Help me accept my housemate.
June 9, 2022 4:57 PM Subscribe
Looking to accept my housemate instead of being mad all the time.
I have a housemate. No, I cannot move out. No, she is not moving out. Reasons. At times, we have great conversations. At other times, we don't. I genuinely like and respect some great qualities she has. I think she feels the same towards me. Other times, though, things are not so pleasant.
We are both stubborn. The latest bit of absurdity is over dishes. She has rules for how she wants her dishes to be washed. We all, in the house, share these dishes, so this gets inconvenient because she needs "her" dishes (the ones she uses on a regular basis) rinsed with a different sponge and different detergent, dried in a certain specific way, put away a certain way. To keep the peace I have tried to learn her rules and wash her dishes her way. She doesn't like that the strainer wasn't clean enough, so I bleached it for her and now do so regularly. She said ok, thanks. Seemed everything was normal. Today I realize a bunch of dishes are missing and realized she is hoarding them in her room so that she can wash them herself. When I asked her if she is hiding them she said "not exactly" with a glare. I am mostly Ask, she is mostly Guess. This does not help matters much.
I am tired of being angry at what are, to me, obviously coping behaviors for other issues in her life. I'm angry because she refuses to admit how she uses her cleaning rituals to control her anxiety. However, I understand that it is not my place to be mad at how she controls her anxiety. What I want is to be able to just drop it, instead of becoming angry over what I cannot change or control in someone else. I want, in short, just to be able to shrug if I find out she is doing something I find absurd. Laugh at it. Take it less seriously. But I have my own issues and so anger and frustration are usually my first response. My biggest frustration is that out of whatever childhood trauma she experienced, she hides things and goes along to get along, and then retreats into a kind of voluntary deafness when confronted over it. I am not a therapist and don't know how to approach things other than through being direct. Not an effective approach. Meaning I have tried many times to talk reasonably about how we could get along over mutual issues, only for her to nod and smile and then just lets what I say go in one ear and out the other, and absolutely refusing to change her behavior or ideas in any whatsoever, or even entertain an idea she is at odds with.
Please don't attack me for my failure to be as understanding as I could be about this. I am trying. I am seeking some welcome perspective/tips on how to be more relaxed about it, since doing so would be a valuable lesson for me regarding anyone who gets under my skin.
I have a housemate. No, I cannot move out. No, she is not moving out. Reasons. At times, we have great conversations. At other times, we don't. I genuinely like and respect some great qualities she has. I think she feels the same towards me. Other times, though, things are not so pleasant.
We are both stubborn. The latest bit of absurdity is over dishes. She has rules for how she wants her dishes to be washed. We all, in the house, share these dishes, so this gets inconvenient because she needs "her" dishes (the ones she uses on a regular basis) rinsed with a different sponge and different detergent, dried in a certain specific way, put away a certain way. To keep the peace I have tried to learn her rules and wash her dishes her way. She doesn't like that the strainer wasn't clean enough, so I bleached it for her and now do so regularly. She said ok, thanks. Seemed everything was normal. Today I realize a bunch of dishes are missing and realized she is hoarding them in her room so that she can wash them herself. When I asked her if she is hiding them she said "not exactly" with a glare. I am mostly Ask, she is mostly Guess. This does not help matters much.
I am tired of being angry at what are, to me, obviously coping behaviors for other issues in her life. I'm angry because she refuses to admit how she uses her cleaning rituals to control her anxiety. However, I understand that it is not my place to be mad at how she controls her anxiety. What I want is to be able to just drop it, instead of becoming angry over what I cannot change or control in someone else. I want, in short, just to be able to shrug if I find out she is doing something I find absurd. Laugh at it. Take it less seriously. But I have my own issues and so anger and frustration are usually my first response. My biggest frustration is that out of whatever childhood trauma she experienced, she hides things and goes along to get along, and then retreats into a kind of voluntary deafness when confronted over it. I am not a therapist and don't know how to approach things other than through being direct. Not an effective approach. Meaning I have tried many times to talk reasonably about how we could get along over mutual issues, only for her to nod and smile and then just lets what I say go in one ear and out the other, and absolutely refusing to change her behavior or ideas in any whatsoever, or even entertain an idea she is at odds with.
Please don't attack me for my failure to be as understanding as I could be about this. I am trying. I am seeking some welcome perspective/tips on how to be more relaxed about it, since doing so would be a valuable lesson for me regarding anyone who gets under my skin.
This seems really frustrating, and you're doing a lot to accommodate her.
In order to check your emotions and be able to let go, look into radical acceptance, and see if any of that resonates or is helpful to you. Here's one site that discusses it, Google has a lot more.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 5:11 PM on June 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
In order to check your emotions and be able to let go, look into radical acceptance, and see if any of that resonates or is helpful to you. Here's one site that discusses it, Google has a lot more.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 5:11 PM on June 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Please don't attack me for my failure to be as understanding as I could be about this
Quite the opposite, actually. I fault you for being too understanding. You’ve found yourself in the “too friendly and being taken advantage of” category.
You’ve heard the saying if you want something done right, do it yourself”? Maybe your roommate should hear it. From you. Her excessive requests are her responsibility.
Otherwise, it might be time for you to develop some even more onerous needs. Everyone has to scrub the toilet for at least 10 minutes with bleach after using the restroom. Is that passive aggressive? Oh well. Hopefully it doesn’t get to that point.
posted by kevinbelt at 5:29 PM on June 9, 2022 [12 favorites]
Quite the opposite, actually. I fault you for being too understanding. You’ve found yourself in the “too friendly and being taken advantage of” category.
You’ve heard the saying if you want something done right, do it yourself”? Maybe your roommate should hear it. From you. Her excessive requests are her responsibility.
Otherwise, it might be time for you to develop some even more onerous needs. Everyone has to scrub the toilet for at least 10 minutes with bleach after using the restroom. Is that passive aggressive? Oh well. Hopefully it doesn’t get to that point.
posted by kevinbelt at 5:29 PM on June 9, 2022 [12 favorites]
I may be overly accomodating but I think that perspective is what you're asking for, so, my first thought was "why are you washing her dishes?"
It sounded like she is only claiming some of the dishes, so, let her have "hers" and you have yours. If they're all "hers" then get your own: go to goodwill and drop $10 on a couple of place settings or stalk your local Buy Nothing for a bit. She can handle her OCD however it works for her - and I frame it as OCD not because I believe I can diagnose it from here but because I think treating it a little like a disability or compulsion rather than a choice may help you have compassion and set it as something apart from yourself. But if she doesn't like the way you X, she can do it herself.
posted by Lady Li at 5:30 PM on June 9, 2022 [56 favorites]
It sounded like she is only claiming some of the dishes, so, let her have "hers" and you have yours. If they're all "hers" then get your own: go to goodwill and drop $10 on a couple of place settings or stalk your local Buy Nothing for a bit. She can handle her OCD however it works for her - and I frame it as OCD not because I believe I can diagnose it from here but because I think treating it a little like a disability or compulsion rather than a choice may help you have compassion and set it as something apart from yourself. But if she doesn't like the way you X, she can do it herself.
posted by Lady Li at 5:30 PM on June 9, 2022 [56 favorites]
What I'm seeing here is that you're interpreting this action - taking her plates into her room - as violating a boundary somehow (?? How ??) so you're mad. But you just came up with the one interpretation and then stopped. Another interpretation is that she's solving the problem for you both in a mature way by ensuring she washes her own dishes going forward. This is giving someone the benefit of the doubt. It makes people a lot easier to get along with.
posted by bleep at 5:31 PM on June 9, 2022 [42 favorites]
posted by bleep at 5:31 PM on June 9, 2022 [42 favorites]
To expand on what bleep said, you seem to be trying to be a team or a family unit, and maybe you should be two units that happen to share physical space, instead.
posted by Lady Li at 5:37 PM on June 9, 2022 [36 favorites]
posted by Lady Li at 5:37 PM on June 9, 2022 [36 favorites]
Seconding that she should have her own dishes.
It sounds like, though, maybe the whole household uses the dishes that are "hers"? In that case, then, since you say she's Guess culture, maybe she is waiting for you to offer to get your own set of dishes that you can wash in whatever way you want. And she can be particular with cleaning hers. I can imagine that asking you to do such a thing would be unthinkable to a Guesser, and she is hoarding dishes while stewing that you would be so rude so as not to offer.
I had a roommate for a year who had similar cleaning habits. We had separate plates and flatware. Everyone else thought it was weird, but it was necessary.
posted by hovey at 5:38 PM on June 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
It sounds like, though, maybe the whole household uses the dishes that are "hers"? In that case, then, since you say she's Guess culture, maybe she is waiting for you to offer to get your own set of dishes that you can wash in whatever way you want. And she can be particular with cleaning hers. I can imagine that asking you to do such a thing would be unthinkable to a Guesser, and she is hoarding dishes while stewing that you would be so rude so as not to offer.
I had a roommate for a year who had similar cleaning habits. We had separate plates and flatware. Everyone else thought it was weird, but it was necessary.
posted by hovey at 5:38 PM on June 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
Does she have positive qualities? What does she bring to the relationship? Think on them, actually list them out. They don’t have to be concrete like paying for stuff or cleaning the toilet, but if she does those things also take note of them. Does she keep you company? Does she encourage you to do things you wouldn’t otherwise bother with? Maybe she helps keep you on track with something. Maybe she listens when you want to ramble about goofy stuff. Maybe her living there makes the house feel safer, and you really hate coming home to a dark house. Maybe she has an amazing sense of humor and you make each other laugh.
Anyway, honing in on these and keeping them at the forefront of your mind is one way of accepting her. Especially when she does something that upsets you. Instead of, or in addition to, painstakingly hammering out compromises, accept that she is wrong about this thing but she still does XYZ and those things are awesome.
And yeah, sounds like you both can have your own dishes. If it’s cookware that’s the problem though, that’s harder to maintain and to store. If it’s possible, maybe agree that if you are cooking for the both of you, she does the washing up to her standards. For me, that would be the dream, as I love cooking and hate washing dishes. Maybe you would be happy to meal prep and she can have reign of the cookware the rest of the week as long as stuff is clean for you to meal prep on weekends. There are all kinds of ways to compromise on this issue, and not all of them are “buy doubles of each pan”. But she has to be aware it’s a problem and willing to work on it with you. It sounds like, if she is aware of her anxiety, that she might be open to things that help lessen the friction between you two.
posted by Mizu at 5:58 PM on June 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Anyway, honing in on these and keeping them at the forefront of your mind is one way of accepting her. Especially when she does something that upsets you. Instead of, or in addition to, painstakingly hammering out compromises, accept that she is wrong about this thing but she still does XYZ and those things are awesome.
And yeah, sounds like you both can have your own dishes. If it’s cookware that’s the problem though, that’s harder to maintain and to store. If it’s possible, maybe agree that if you are cooking for the both of you, she does the washing up to her standards. For me, that would be the dream, as I love cooking and hate washing dishes. Maybe you would be happy to meal prep and she can have reign of the cookware the rest of the week as long as stuff is clean for you to meal prep on weekends. There are all kinds of ways to compromise on this issue, and not all of them are “buy doubles of each pan”. But she has to be aware it’s a problem and willing to work on it with you. It sounds like, if she is aware of her anxiety, that she might be open to things that help lessen the friction between you two.
posted by Mizu at 5:58 PM on June 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
It sounds like she has burdensome life circumstances, and she has found ways to cope with them that allow her to function rather well, and to have qualities that you respect and admire. I would respect her even more for finding these coping mechanisms, and for managing to be a good person by using them.
posted by amtho at 6:17 PM on June 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by amtho at 6:17 PM on June 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
It sounds like the only real issue here is the dishes?
Have separate sets of dishes. Have separate sets of sponges and detergent.
Everyone can wash their own dishes how they want, and store them in their room before washing if they want to.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 6:27 PM on June 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
Have separate sets of dishes. Have separate sets of sponges and detergent.
Everyone can wash their own dishes how they want, and store them in their room before washing if they want to.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 6:27 PM on June 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
To expand on what bleep said, you seem to be trying to be a team or a family unit, and maybe you should be two units that happen to share physical space, instead.
Quoting this above comment because I really think this hits the nail on the head - any time you find that your way of living clashes with her approach to living, do whatever you need to do that allows you both to do your own approach. Because quite often, nobody is wrong in housemate conflicts, people just have different ways of doing things. So in this case, the solution is clearly (as others have suggested) for her to have her own dishes that she cleans as she sees fit.
Sometimes though, you need to draw a line. For example, in this case, if her solution is to keep dirty dishes in her room, attracting ants/roaches, you can say "Hey housemate, your solution to this problem is causing other problems that have a negative impact on the rest of the people in this house. Let's figure out another solution."
Generally, I don't think it's great to bring something up unless you can articulate why it's a problem. So, you asked her if she's keeping dishes in her room, but it sounds like you didn't make clear why you find that a problem - is it because you need to use the dishes? If you bring something like this up, always be clear why it's concerning you - otherwise it risk feeling petty to the other person.
posted by coffeecat at 6:31 PM on June 9, 2022 [8 favorites]
Quoting this above comment because I really think this hits the nail on the head - any time you find that your way of living clashes with her approach to living, do whatever you need to do that allows you both to do your own approach. Because quite often, nobody is wrong in housemate conflicts, people just have different ways of doing things. So in this case, the solution is clearly (as others have suggested) for her to have her own dishes that she cleans as she sees fit.
Sometimes though, you need to draw a line. For example, in this case, if her solution is to keep dirty dishes in her room, attracting ants/roaches, you can say "Hey housemate, your solution to this problem is causing other problems that have a negative impact on the rest of the people in this house. Let's figure out another solution."
Generally, I don't think it's great to bring something up unless you can articulate why it's a problem. So, you asked her if she's keeping dishes in her room, but it sounds like you didn't make clear why you find that a problem - is it because you need to use the dishes? If you bring something like this up, always be clear why it's concerning you - otherwise it risk feeling petty to the other person.
posted by coffeecat at 6:31 PM on June 9, 2022 [8 favorites]
On the dish issue specifically, it does sound like she just needs her own stuff that she washes her own way. That seems reasonable enough. Can you just consider the money spent on a second set of cheap dishes to be a worthwhile investment in never having to think about this again? Or switch chores with someone so dishes aren't your problem? If so, that's what I'd do for this and as many other housemate issues as you can solve this way. It's okay to just solve the practical shit as much as you can without resolving the underlying tensions. It sounds like you're bouncing off each other's trauma responses and that's not something you're going to solve in a house meeting.
It might be an interesting thought experiment to imagine what her version of this question would look like and see if doing so affects your perspective at all.
posted by Stacey at 6:37 PM on June 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
It might be an interesting thought experiment to imagine what her version of this question would look like and see if doing so affects your perspective at all.
posted by Stacey at 6:37 PM on June 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
It sounds like you both have good intentions but different styles, as you noted. I think we all underestimate how annoying we can be — I know I certainly am at times. I’ve found that radical, albeit often begrudging, acceptance of this imperfection helps. We can state what we want, maybe each make a list of what’s important, and try to find a balance. A housemate agreement — they’re surely templates online — might help you both.
A few years ago I had twelve flat mates in a hot mess of an apartment. I liked most people and loved hanging out. A few drove me crazy, like the one who’s try to sell me her homemade soap while depleting my dollar store suds. I mean, at least they were washing their hands!?! I live alone again and love it because I can be weird and annoying as I want BUT it also means living in a less fun place and sometimes feeling isolated. It sucks that you feel stuck but yes you have a voice and it can get better!
posted by smorgasbord at 6:39 PM on June 9, 2022
A few years ago I had twelve flat mates in a hot mess of an apartment. I liked most people and loved hanging out. A few drove me crazy, like the one who’s try to sell me her homemade soap while depleting my dollar store suds. I mean, at least they were washing their hands!?! I live alone again and love it because I can be weird and annoying as I want BUT it also means living in a less fun place and sometimes feeling isolated. It sucks that you feel stuck but yes you have a voice and it can get better!
posted by smorgasbord at 6:39 PM on June 9, 2022
Also, I think of our manager in that apartment meeting with each of us individually to try to suss out who was hoarding the forks, then another time the bowls, etc. It was hilarious and annoying but we were able to unite against that common annoyance. Sadly, you two don’t have that common enemy so divided is probably best. Keep your important kitchen stuff in your room if needed. It sucks but is worth it if it makes you feel better. You find tell her “Hey, I know it’s weird for me to do this but having stuff that’s just mine and washed a certain way is so important to me. Thank you for being understanding!” I mean, yeah, she should put stuff back but it is what it is. Taking ownership of what is important to you, making it about your needs and quirks rather than her issues, makes it better for all! I wish you luck.
posted by smorgasbord at 6:44 PM on June 9, 2022
posted by smorgasbord at 6:44 PM on June 9, 2022
As everyone is saying, get separate dishes so it is not an issue.
One thing I have noted is that people who bother the hell out of me often have traits that I have or remind me of difficult person in my life. Simply recognizing that helps me diffuse some of my frustration.
If it helps, here is an example: I once worked with a dude, tangentially, and I pretty much despised him based on a small handful of interactions. Specifically, this mid manager would come late into the project and assert himself. He wanted things done this way or that way, after we, the group working on the project, had been making decisions, implementing stuff, etc. very successfully.
My annoyance was pretty intense, and generally I was pretty good at not letting stuff get under my skin. At one point, I realized this all reminded me of my father, and how he could be such a jerk—ignoring our family and every once in a while, inserting himself into our activities and asserting some authority.
It was an ah-hah moment, and while I continued to find the guy a pain, he was just another irksome person to deal with and things were much better for me mentally.
This may or may not apply to you.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 7:02 PM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
One thing I have noted is that people who bother the hell out of me often have traits that I have or remind me of difficult person in my life. Simply recognizing that helps me diffuse some of my frustration.
If it helps, here is an example: I once worked with a dude, tangentially, and I pretty much despised him based on a small handful of interactions. Specifically, this mid manager would come late into the project and assert himself. He wanted things done this way or that way, after we, the group working on the project, had been making decisions, implementing stuff, etc. very successfully.
My annoyance was pretty intense, and generally I was pretty good at not letting stuff get under my skin. At one point, I realized this all reminded me of my father, and how he could be such a jerk—ignoring our family and every once in a while, inserting himself into our activities and asserting some authority.
It was an ah-hah moment, and while I continued to find the guy a pain, he was just another irksome person to deal with and things were much better for me mentally.
This may or may not apply to you.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 7:02 PM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm not going to focus on the dishes because I interpreted that as an example, and not the actual only issue. What I want to focus on is how you are interpreting her actions of hiding and deafness, as being things she does AT you, but not considering that your coping response (anger, frustration, confrontation) are things she perceives as you doing AT her. Likely, neither of you has malicious intent towards the other.
I don't think this is so much a failure on your part to be more understanding, although greater empathy might help (on both sides). I do think you have to stop trying, or thinking about, how to change her. I think fully accepting that you don't have to play a part in her growth as a person might be freeing.
(This is all assuming that the conflicts are over things that are annoying, not dangerous to anyone's physical or mental well-being. if not the case, I would revise my advice.)
posted by sm1tten at 8:14 PM on June 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't think this is so much a failure on your part to be more understanding, although greater empathy might help (on both sides). I do think you have to stop trying, or thinking about, how to change her. I think fully accepting that you don't have to play a part in her growth as a person might be freeing.
(This is all assuming that the conflicts are over things that are annoying, not dangerous to anyone's physical or mental well-being. if not the case, I would revise my advice.)
posted by sm1tten at 8:14 PM on June 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
I’m willing to compromise about some housework stuff. Left to my own devices, I’d clean my stovetop once a week, and not necessarily worry about little drips and spills from cooking between cleanings, but if a roommate wanted me to wipe down the stove every time I use it, I’d be willing. But if someone asked me to do dishes your roommate’s way, I wouldn’t be able to share dishes with them and would get my own set (even if just a super cheap set from Target or a thrift store). There’s too much distance from how I wash dishes to how they do it: one or both of us would be unhappy with the state of the dishes at all times. It would be a great chance to navigate not-compromising. I’d say, “I’m not willing to wash dishes your way, but I respect that you have a certain way you want your dishes cleaned. So I’ll use my own and wash them my way. If I ever use one of yours, I’ll wash it your way.” Obviously, there are roommate situations that absolutely require compromise (e.g., if you share a bathroom and work similar hours, you have to work out shower timing), but often there’s another option. A cheap set of plates and cups might be worth it if they spare you the annoyance of a compromise that leaves at least one if not both of you unsatisfied and resentful. Likewise, there may be other things where you think you need to reach a compromise even though any compromise would basically guarantee resentment, but some other satisfactory (if unusual) solution might exist. Let her use whatever rituals she needs to manage her anxiety—not because it’s the best, healthiest thing for her, but because it harms you less to do that than to tie yourself in knots trying to fit yourself into her rituals.
posted by theotherdurassister at 8:33 PM on June 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by theotherdurassister at 8:33 PM on June 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
What stands out to me about your question is that you seem to recognize that you have things going on that mean you might not be responding as kindly or skillfully as you might at your best ("I have my own issues and so anger and frustration are usually my first response") but don't seem to be cutting her any slack other than verbally acknowledging that she has what are "obviously coping behaviors for other issues in her life".
From my outside perspective, the story you relate about her wanting her dishes done a certain way, then removing those dishes from common use and when asked "do you have a problem" replying "not exactly" strongly indicate that she's got something going on beyond just being a pain in the neck. Maybe she's neurodivergent (as an autistic person, I can easily imagine a situation in which at first I think I can handle sharing dishes, then when I see how my housemates deal with them I realize I can't and so quietly, hoping not to cause a fuss, remove them from general circulation). Maybe there's something else going on. But if the worst that's happened is that she's taken her dishes out of the common kitchen and doesn't want to talk about it, that's pretty minor, and your response seems disproportionate.
Also, given "We all, in the house, share these dishes" it seems like you two are not the only housemates. Given that, why are you interpreting this as her doing it "at" you in particular, rather than her behavior being a reaction to living in a house with multiple people?
Personally, if presented with "my dishes must be washed in a particular way, with a specific cloth and this detergent" I would have politely said "I don't think I can accommodate that, so let's figure out a way that we can not be sharing dishes." That request is fairly out of the ordinary in shared housing situations in my experience. But that doesn't mean that her taking her dishes out of the kitchen is an insult or finding fault with you.
posted by Lexica at 8:43 PM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
From my outside perspective, the story you relate about her wanting her dishes done a certain way, then removing those dishes from common use and when asked "do you have a problem" replying "not exactly" strongly indicate that she's got something going on beyond just being a pain in the neck. Maybe she's neurodivergent (as an autistic person, I can easily imagine a situation in which at first I think I can handle sharing dishes, then when I see how my housemates deal with them I realize I can't and so quietly, hoping not to cause a fuss, remove them from general circulation). Maybe there's something else going on. But if the worst that's happened is that she's taken her dishes out of the common kitchen and doesn't want to talk about it, that's pretty minor, and your response seems disproportionate.
Also, given "We all, in the house, share these dishes" it seems like you two are not the only housemates. Given that, why are you interpreting this as her doing it "at" you in particular, rather than her behavior being a reaction to living in a house with multiple people?
Personally, if presented with "my dishes must be washed in a particular way, with a specific cloth and this detergent" I would have politely said "I don't think I can accommodate that, so let's figure out a way that we can not be sharing dishes." That request is fairly out of the ordinary in shared housing situations in my experience. But that doesn't mean that her taking her dishes out of the kitchen is an insult or finding fault with you.
posted by Lexica at 8:43 PM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
We all, in the house, share these dishes
yeah, but do all of you want to? specifically, does she want to? and who exactly owns them? if some of them are actually her dishes, not just "her" dishes, she can do anything she wants with them & taking complete responsibility for their care is a big step up from giving you micromanagey instructions on washing them. if they are collectively owned & you all kicked in a percentage to buy them, it ought to be fine unless she's taking more than a proportionate number as her own.
goes along to get along, and then retreats into a kind of voluntary deafness when confronted over it.
but this is an essential housemate skill and an admirable one. she is absolutely declining to attend fights and confrontations to which she has been invited. not everyone knows they have the right and the power to do this. superficially "going along to get along" is something you can get not just mad but justifiably mad about in, say, a marriage but that is because in a marriage you have the expectation of mutual intimate disclosures. in a housemate situation, the determination not to examine personal incompatibilities too closely is a gift.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:40 PM on June 9, 2022 [17 favorites]
yeah, but do all of you want to? specifically, does she want to? and who exactly owns them? if some of them are actually her dishes, not just "her" dishes, she can do anything she wants with them & taking complete responsibility for their care is a big step up from giving you micromanagey instructions on washing them. if they are collectively owned & you all kicked in a percentage to buy them, it ought to be fine unless she's taking more than a proportionate number as her own.
goes along to get along, and then retreats into a kind of voluntary deafness when confronted over it.
but this is an essential housemate skill and an admirable one. she is absolutely declining to attend fights and confrontations to which she has been invited. not everyone knows they have the right and the power to do this. superficially "going along to get along" is something you can get not just mad but justifiably mad about in, say, a marriage but that is because in a marriage you have the expectation of mutual intimate disclosures. in a housemate situation, the determination not to examine personal incompatibilities too closely is a gift.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:40 PM on June 9, 2022 [17 favorites]
Something I'm only realising lately is how often I hide my own needs in a tangle of self justifications on how I'm really concerned about the people I'm in conflict with.
Then I get frustrated with them because, (I say to myself,) can't they see I'm trying to help them?!?
The stuff about your housemates possible anxiety and history of trauma is beside the point. You're not their therapist or romantic partner.
You have needs, like not having to spend your time and energy placating someone else. You have the right to have needs. It's fine to say "this is what I want, just because I want it"
It sounds like you're already ahead of the game by being able to communicate directly. That's something I struggle with. Keep doing that. But own your space. Figure out what you need, and avoid cluttering that up with pre emptive rationalizations and excuses about why your housemate has different needs, and trying to solve those for them, in order to get what you want.
posted by Zumbador at 9:56 PM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Then I get frustrated with them because, (I say to myself,) can't they see I'm trying to help them?!?
The stuff about your housemates possible anxiety and history of trauma is beside the point. You're not their therapist or romantic partner.
You have needs, like not having to spend your time and energy placating someone else. You have the right to have needs. It's fine to say "this is what I want, just because I want it"
It sounds like you're already ahead of the game by being able to communicate directly. That's something I struggle with. Keep doing that. But own your space. Figure out what you need, and avoid cluttering that up with pre emptive rationalizations and excuses about why your housemate has different needs, and trying to solve those for them, in order to get what you want.
posted by Zumbador at 9:56 PM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
So from your example, my first thought was "how does her keeping her own dishes in her room affect you?" Because to me it sounds like a perfectly valid solution to your mutual problem. She's not bitching at you about how you wash dishes, it sounds like she just quietly accepted that if she wants them done in the way she wants them done, she will have to do them herself.
If this has created a dish shortage for others, then dropping a few bucks on some extra dishes sounds like an easy solution. You can get a 12 piece Corelle dish set at Walmart for around $35 bucks, or look for used pieces at a thrift store.
I know you said this is just an example and maybe other issues are less easy to solve, but a good rule of thumb is to a) not take it personally and b) look for a solution other than wishing/expecting her to change. Especially if her issues around controlling her environment are OCD-related, or even as you say, her ways of coping with anxiety, let the girl live. Anxiety is a miserable, persistent bitch and it doesn't just automatically cure itself even with meds and therapy, or "logic-ing your way through it" or whatever it is you think she should be doing to fix herself. A lot of times all you have is whatever coping mechanisms you've managed to cobble together, and while hers may annoy you they are actually a lot more positive than some others.
It might be worthwhile to think about why it is important to you that "she refuses to admit how she uses her cleaning rituals to control her anxiety." Do you feel that her actions imply that she is judging you for not having the same cleanliness standards, or ways of cleaning? Maybe remind yourself that there is no one universally acceptable standard of cleanliness or orderliness, and that your standards are perfectly fine even if you think she disagrees. Especially if she is coming up with solutions like with the dishes, where she is figuring out a way to have things the way she wants them without nagging or picking fights with you or deliberately insulting you about it.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 12:03 AM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
If this has created a dish shortage for others, then dropping a few bucks on some extra dishes sounds like an easy solution. You can get a 12 piece Corelle dish set at Walmart for around $35 bucks, or look for used pieces at a thrift store.
I know you said this is just an example and maybe other issues are less easy to solve, but a good rule of thumb is to a) not take it personally and b) look for a solution other than wishing/expecting her to change. Especially if her issues around controlling her environment are OCD-related, or even as you say, her ways of coping with anxiety, let the girl live. Anxiety is a miserable, persistent bitch and it doesn't just automatically cure itself even with meds and therapy, or "logic-ing your way through it" or whatever it is you think she should be doing to fix herself. A lot of times all you have is whatever coping mechanisms you've managed to cobble together, and while hers may annoy you they are actually a lot more positive than some others.
It might be worthwhile to think about why it is important to you that "she refuses to admit how she uses her cleaning rituals to control her anxiety." Do you feel that her actions imply that she is judging you for not having the same cleanliness standards, or ways of cleaning? Maybe remind yourself that there is no one universally acceptable standard of cleanliness or orderliness, and that your standards are perfectly fine even if you think she disagrees. Especially if she is coming up with solutions like with the dishes, where she is figuring out a way to have things the way she wants them without nagging or picking fights with you or deliberately insulting you about it.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 12:03 AM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
The most important survival skill for shared housing is to remember that these people are not your family.
You aren't bound to them by marriage, partnership, or childrearing.
You are simply sharing space. If you can be friends, great, but that's not required.
My advice is to take a giant step back from the psychoanalysis and emotional reactions.
Because speaking as the person who had a housemate go on about their assessment of my emotions, when really we just needed to divvy up chores and move on, that goes nowhere good.
It's really smothering to sense, or worse, know, you're being psychoanalyzed by someone you share a toilet with.
Give your housemate space. Her emotions aren't your problem, chores and bills are.
Solve problems as they come up, in ways that make sense for the household. If her dish routine is too fussy, buy dishes.
posted by champers at 2:58 AM on June 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
You aren't bound to them by marriage, partnership, or childrearing.
You are simply sharing space. If you can be friends, great, but that's not required.
My advice is to take a giant step back from the psychoanalysis and emotional reactions.
Because speaking as the person who had a housemate go on about their assessment of my emotions, when really we just needed to divvy up chores and move on, that goes nowhere good.
It's really smothering to sense, or worse, know, you're being psychoanalyzed by someone you share a toilet with.
Give your housemate space. Her emotions aren't your problem, chores and bills are.
Solve problems as they come up, in ways that make sense for the household. If her dish routine is too fussy, buy dishes.
posted by champers at 2:58 AM on June 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
My roommate has been Going Through Some Shit for the past year and change. My roommate also has a very different style of cleaning and a very different threshhold for mess than I do.
We've dealt with both by drawing a very, very big bright line between His Stuff and My Stuff, and by "stuff" I mean both personal possessions and emotional issues. He has his parts of the apartment, I have mine. He says nothing about how I clean my parts of the apartment, I say nothing about how he cleans his. Literally the only difference of opinion we've recently had about cleaning was the following conversation:
"Hey, dude, could you do me a favor and clean the hair out of the bathtub drain a little more often?"
"I do try to, but yeah, I'll try to be more diligent."
"Gotcha. Thanks."
And I say absolutely nothing about the Shit He's Going Through unless he starts the conversation, because I don't have a degree in psychology and I probably don't know jack shit about what I'm talking about. The most I've done is to stop myself if I'm ever like "what is the deal with him not talking to me today after work" and remind myself that "oh yeah, he told me once he learned this as a coping thing when he's under stress, and he asked I leave him alone when he's like this" and I just go about my business. But - it took like a year for him to get to the point where he could even articulate that kind of stuff to me, and I just gave him space in the meantime until he could.
I would stick to just solving the problems about Physical Stuff rather than trying to Interpret things - "hey, so how about I get my own dishes instead of using yours and then we can each wash our dishes however the hell we want to, and that way you can also move yours back out here if you want because I won't be using them any more." Dishes are cheap, you can get sets of them from the Dollar store. And then just let that be the new rule. And as for "why is she That Way" just kinda write it off as "oh well, it's just part of Her Deal" and leave that there unless SHE specifically gives you some intel.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:17 AM on June 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
We've dealt with both by drawing a very, very big bright line between His Stuff and My Stuff, and by "stuff" I mean both personal possessions and emotional issues. He has his parts of the apartment, I have mine. He says nothing about how I clean my parts of the apartment, I say nothing about how he cleans his. Literally the only difference of opinion we've recently had about cleaning was the following conversation:
"Hey, dude, could you do me a favor and clean the hair out of the bathtub drain a little more often?"
"I do try to, but yeah, I'll try to be more diligent."
"Gotcha. Thanks."
And I say absolutely nothing about the Shit He's Going Through unless he starts the conversation, because I don't have a degree in psychology and I probably don't know jack shit about what I'm talking about. The most I've done is to stop myself if I'm ever like "what is the deal with him not talking to me today after work" and remind myself that "oh yeah, he told me once he learned this as a coping thing when he's under stress, and he asked I leave him alone when he's like this" and I just go about my business. But - it took like a year for him to get to the point where he could even articulate that kind of stuff to me, and I just gave him space in the meantime until he could.
I would stick to just solving the problems about Physical Stuff rather than trying to Interpret things - "hey, so how about I get my own dishes instead of using yours and then we can each wash our dishes however the hell we want to, and that way you can also move yours back out here if you want because I won't be using them any more." Dishes are cheap, you can get sets of them from the Dollar store. And then just let that be the new rule. And as for "why is she That Way" just kinda write it off as "oh well, it's just part of Her Deal" and leave that there unless SHE specifically gives you some intel.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:17 AM on June 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Lots of excellent advice above, but just to note that this in particular jumped out at me:
I'm angry because she refuses to admit how she uses her cleaning rituals to control her anxiety.
Why does she have to admit it? You don't need her permission to come to that conclusion, presumptive as it may be. She has dish behaviors, she seems anxious, I bet they're connected. Totally reasonable. No need to pry into her brain, which I think we can see will only make her defensive.
Also, if they're your dishes originally, she can get her own dishes that you promise not to touch. Some contrasting color would probably be best.
Another option could be a countertop dishwasher that can act as an ersatz autoclave.
posted by rhizome at 11:46 AM on June 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm angry because she refuses to admit how she uses her cleaning rituals to control her anxiety.
Why does she have to admit it? You don't need her permission to come to that conclusion, presumptive as it may be. She has dish behaviors, she seems anxious, I bet they're connected. Totally reasonable. No need to pry into her brain, which I think we can see will only make her defensive.
Also, if they're your dishes originally, she can get her own dishes that you promise not to touch. Some contrasting color would probably be best.
Another option could be a countertop dishwasher that can act as an ersatz autoclave.
posted by rhizome at 11:46 AM on June 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
Is part of the problem that she's leading you to believe things are resolved (eg you cleaning the dishes her way) but they are in fact not (eg she hoards the dishes in her room)? I would find that frustrating, particularly if the initial compromise or solution had been an effort for me. I wonder whether it would be helpful to, as others suggest, treat this as a series of practical problems and look for practical solutions to them, but also to prioritise solutions that don't ask you to do anything unnecessary/extra. Without knowing the other issues you're encountering, it's difficult to say what those might be, but generally I think if money makes the problem go away (as with buying more dishes) and you can collectively afford it then it's a very cheap solution in human relations terms.
posted by plonkee at 5:40 AM on June 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 5:40 AM on June 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
if she wants a special strainer, she can go to Ross and get one and bleach it all day long. Dishes are cheap, she can stop by the next garage sale she sees and get her own. It's only a problem if her weird room-hoarding habits lead to vermin.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:05 PM on June 9, 2022 [31 favorites]