Getting over feelings of inadequacy/shame
May 29, 2022 5:09 PM Subscribe
I spent a lot of my 20s chronically ill. While my health issues haven’t quite gone away, I am so much better now and almost feel like my 21 year old self (I’m in my early thirties FWIW). My issue is that I mourn those lost years every single day. I couldn’t work, couldn’t start a PhD programme, was stuck at home for years. How do I get over that period (and myself!) and move on?
In many ways I’m so much happier now than I was in my early 20s. I much prefer what I study now (I recently finished a terminal MA programme), I am in a long-term relationship with a wonderful person, and generally I like myself more now.
But I’m ashamed of the fact that I haven’t actually ever worked. Like ever. And I don’t feel like my academic CV is as strong as it used to be 10 years ago because of all the gaps it now has. Even though at some level I do think it is a better CV - I’ve studied a lot more since my early 20s, my interests have diversified tremendously.
I would love to do a PhD and I am considering applying for one sometime soon, but I just feel useless. I honestly don’t think anyone would hire me even if I did end up with a PhD. Why would they when they could get someone younger?! I would love to erase all those years of health issues and doing nothing much other than learning languages and reading random books in bed. In my early 20s, I had a fully funded place at my dream university (I don’t focus on that discipline anymore). I don’t see that happening again.
I just feel like I’ll never be able to achieve anything I want because of those lost years. All my friends have worked for years or teach at university. And here I am with limited work experience (do internships in my early/mid 20s count?!) and no PhD.
I realise I sound terribly ageist. I am not, well, except towards myself. I have plenty of friends in their 40s who studying master’s degrees (for the love of learning). My mother who in her 60s is currently finishing up a PhD. I think they are all inspirational people.
How can I stop being so harsh on myself? How can I get over myself and learn to enjoy everything I do? I plan to apply for jobs this summer and work on a PhD proposal. I want to stop feeling so useless.
In many ways I’m so much happier now than I was in my early 20s. I much prefer what I study now (I recently finished a terminal MA programme), I am in a long-term relationship with a wonderful person, and generally I like myself more now.
But I’m ashamed of the fact that I haven’t actually ever worked. Like ever. And I don’t feel like my academic CV is as strong as it used to be 10 years ago because of all the gaps it now has. Even though at some level I do think it is a better CV - I’ve studied a lot more since my early 20s, my interests have diversified tremendously.
I would love to do a PhD and I am considering applying for one sometime soon, but I just feel useless. I honestly don’t think anyone would hire me even if I did end up with a PhD. Why would they when they could get someone younger?! I would love to erase all those years of health issues and doing nothing much other than learning languages and reading random books in bed. In my early 20s, I had a fully funded place at my dream university (I don’t focus on that discipline anymore). I don’t see that happening again.
I just feel like I’ll never be able to achieve anything I want because of those lost years. All my friends have worked for years or teach at university. And here I am with limited work experience (do internships in my early/mid 20s count?!) and no PhD.
I realise I sound terribly ageist. I am not, well, except towards myself. I have plenty of friends in their 40s who studying master’s degrees (for the love of learning). My mother who in her 60s is currently finishing up a PhD. I think they are all inspirational people.
How can I stop being so harsh on myself? How can I get over myself and learn to enjoy everything I do? I plan to apply for jobs this summer and work on a PhD proposal. I want to stop feeling so useless.
Gently, if you are this harsh on yourself now, I do not think you would necessarily feel comfortable in most of the Ph.D programs I have experience with. Signed, someone who had to leave a Ph.D for his own mental health and wellbeing, and then worked as staff at another university, and is much happier and healthier in private industry. I have some empathy for where you are coming from, since I exited my Ph.D in my late 20s and felt behind all my peers. Maybe just try for jobs? You may have to massage your resume a bit to make it work, and start in positions more junior than most people your age, but my experience is you can also get promoted quickly if you have the benefit of some experience and maturity.
posted by Alterscape at 5:17 PM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Alterscape at 5:17 PM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I also had to leave a PhD program, for my own wellbeing and because it just wasn't going to happen. There is a huge, diverse, and widespread Freemasonry of us.
The thing about work cultures in which doctorates have meaning—academia, mostly—is that they also have strong cultures of hierarchy, associate 'leaving' with powerful shame and a sense of failure, and take great pains to make people feel as though the single means of success is through its pathway of career and institution (as if there were no salvation outside the Church). If you feel bad about yourself because you don't have a PhD you earned in your twenties, which is over-achievement by any reasonable standard, consider that it isn't just you that's creating the feeling; if you are part of the culture, it would be surprising if you didn't feel that way: these are powerful messages from a powerful work-culture that members are expected to internalise. And the more culturally powerful the institution, like your 'dream' university, the more magnetic the attraction to internalising 'merit' as a hierarchy: there are reasons why universities, like Armies, have such strong cultures of official titles, rank and promotion, obscure traditions, beautiful buildings, ceremonies, and awards.
The minor heresies nobody is willing to admit are that academia is really just another form of work, and non-academic work can be just as fulfilling and interesting—and it usually pays better, with far more freedom to move about, and has less paperwork. Universities, like Armies, poorly prepare people for the world of work outside the institution.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:05 PM on May 29, 2022 [25 favorites]
The thing about work cultures in which doctorates have meaning—academia, mostly—is that they also have strong cultures of hierarchy, associate 'leaving' with powerful shame and a sense of failure, and take great pains to make people feel as though the single means of success is through its pathway of career and institution (as if there were no salvation outside the Church). If you feel bad about yourself because you don't have a PhD you earned in your twenties, which is over-achievement by any reasonable standard, consider that it isn't just you that's creating the feeling; if you are part of the culture, it would be surprising if you didn't feel that way: these are powerful messages from a powerful work-culture that members are expected to internalise. And the more culturally powerful the institution, like your 'dream' university, the more magnetic the attraction to internalising 'merit' as a hierarchy: there are reasons why universities, like Armies, have such strong cultures of official titles, rank and promotion, obscure traditions, beautiful buildings, ceremonies, and awards.
The minor heresies nobody is willing to admit are that academia is really just another form of work, and non-academic work can be just as fulfilling and interesting—and it usually pays better, with far more freedom to move about, and has less paperwork. Universities, like Armies, poorly prepare people for the world of work outside the institution.
In many ways I’m so much happier now than I was in my early 20s. I much prefer what I study now (I recently finished a terminal MA programme), I am in a long-term relationship with a wonderful person, and generally I like myself more now.You're winning at life already, is what this paragraph tells me. Don't let universities sort your head into their hierarchy, especially if they aren't paying you!
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:05 PM on May 29, 2022 [25 favorites]
> academia is really just another form of work, and non-academic work can be just as fulfilling and interesting—and it usually pays better, with far more freedom to move about
If you are considering different possibilities for work, it is worth thinking through supply & demand. Some jobs in academia can be miserable work environments with poor conditions as the higher education system produces 10 times or 100 times more skilled candidates to do the work than there are roles demanding people who can do that kind of work. For a work environment where you will be valued and offered relatively good working conditions, try to identify jobs where the demand from industry is much larger than the number of qualified people applying for the roles. If you've got friends or acquaintances who have been working in industry for a decade, ask them which jobs or niches they might advise someone entering the workforce to consider a career in.
There are skilled jobs out there, demanded by industry, which universities have no idea how to train people to do. Arguably universities often seem to be training people to meet what the labour market demanded decades ago, not necessarily what the labour market needs people to do now. There's often a class thing going on as well with graduate studies vs other pathways such as vocational education. If you want to get a job that can pay a reasonable wage with decent conditions and grow into a career, don't be afraid to look into non-university training programs that teach you how to do something practical that industry finds valuable.
A subset of people I see in industry in some of the more senior roles have PhDs, usually from unrelated fields. they escaped the field they originally trained in and switched their careers to learn how to do something different, that unlike their original field, had industry demand. I don't mean to imply that having a PhD helped them advance their career -- it is likely they could have advanced to where they are in their private sector careers earlier, by skipping the PhD entirely.
(I work in industry so my perspective is biased and subjective, if I was in academia perhaps I'd be talking about the subset of researchers who managed to escape industry.)
posted by are-coral-made at 7:56 PM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you are considering different possibilities for work, it is worth thinking through supply & demand. Some jobs in academia can be miserable work environments with poor conditions as the higher education system produces 10 times or 100 times more skilled candidates to do the work than there are roles demanding people who can do that kind of work. For a work environment where you will be valued and offered relatively good working conditions, try to identify jobs where the demand from industry is much larger than the number of qualified people applying for the roles. If you've got friends or acquaintances who have been working in industry for a decade, ask them which jobs or niches they might advise someone entering the workforce to consider a career in.
There are skilled jobs out there, demanded by industry, which universities have no idea how to train people to do. Arguably universities often seem to be training people to meet what the labour market demanded decades ago, not necessarily what the labour market needs people to do now. There's often a class thing going on as well with graduate studies vs other pathways such as vocational education. If you want to get a job that can pay a reasonable wage with decent conditions and grow into a career, don't be afraid to look into non-university training programs that teach you how to do something practical that industry finds valuable.
A subset of people I see in industry in some of the more senior roles have PhDs, usually from unrelated fields. they escaped the field they originally trained in and switched their careers to learn how to do something different, that unlike their original field, had industry demand. I don't mean to imply that having a PhD helped them advance their career -- it is likely they could have advanced to where they are in their private sector careers earlier, by skipping the PhD entirely.
(I work in industry so my perspective is biased and subjective, if I was in academia perhaps I'd be talking about the subset of researchers who managed to escape industry.)
posted by are-coral-made at 7:56 PM on May 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Start doing something that makes you smile and feel good about your day to day. You need to zoom in from the "fairytale" narrative we all get fed of how the story of success is supposed to look, and look at how it actually looks every day on the ground. You seem to be asking a lot "what will make me good enough?" and you will find your feet much faster if you ask "what do I want to do next?" and reach for that instead.
If you're planning on getting the PhD in order to get hired, what happens if you instead try to just get hired now? Find some folks in the industry to talk to for advice, get some help with your resume, etc. You will feel better when you are moving.
posted by Lady Li at 12:36 AM on May 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
If you're planning on getting the PhD in order to get hired, what happens if you instead try to just get hired now? Find some folks in the industry to talk to for advice, get some help with your resume, etc. You will feel better when you are moving.
posted by Lady Li at 12:36 AM on May 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
I completed my PhD (in psychology) at the age of 40. I had issues with chronic illness and homelessness before. I'm successful now, and actually work with several others who got their PhDs later in life. YMMV, but that's at least one anecdotal data point. I used to look at lists of 'late bloomers' for inspiration.
My husband got his masters after a couple of other careers, and has risen up quickly in his agency. The PhD wasn't necessary for him. He also decided against it since he saw what I went through -- it's tough on the body and mind, even if you have a supportive mentor (which I did). Tough, but possible, if that's what you decide. For him, it wasn't worth it. For me, it was.
Whichever path you take, your age is not a drawback. In fact, older students very often seemed to have a different, more integrated understanding of the work they were doing as they had a depth of lived experience to draw from.
posted by batbat at 6:51 AM on May 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
My husband got his masters after a couple of other careers, and has risen up quickly in his agency. The PhD wasn't necessary for him. He also decided against it since he saw what I went through -- it's tough on the body and mind, even if you have a supportive mentor (which I did). Tough, but possible, if that's what you decide. For him, it wasn't worth it. For me, it was.
Whichever path you take, your age is not a drawback. In fact, older students very often seemed to have a different, more integrated understanding of the work they were doing as they had a depth of lived experience to draw from.
posted by batbat at 6:51 AM on May 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I really want to advise you to get a job rather than a PhD.
I am biased. I considered doing a PhD in my early 20s and decided to get a job instead. I also recently finished a terminal masters (in my 40s) in an unrelated field and vaguely considered doing a PhD in it. However, it would be a waste of my time. There are no jobs aside from college professor that would require me to have a PhD and getting one would make me less employable rather than more.
Except possibly in the hard sciences where postdoctoral research careers exist, the calculations I'm making above apply to pretty much every field. Given the career history you describe, getting a PhD sounds like a recipe for being really unable to get a job if and when you give up or finish it. Whereas a regular paid job will help you get more work in the future, may provide opportunities for fulfilment and advancement, and if not will probably give you money which you can use to find fulfilment outside of paid employment.
Don't get a PhD to help you get hired in the future, it will probably damage your chances of doing so. Get a job, which will help you get hired in the future and provide money in the meantime.
posted by plonkee at 6:59 AM on May 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am biased. I considered doing a PhD in my early 20s and decided to get a job instead. I also recently finished a terminal masters (in my 40s) in an unrelated field and vaguely considered doing a PhD in it. However, it would be a waste of my time. There are no jobs aside from college professor that would require me to have a PhD and getting one would make me less employable rather than more.
Except possibly in the hard sciences where postdoctoral research careers exist, the calculations I'm making above apply to pretty much every field. Given the career history you describe, getting a PhD sounds like a recipe for being really unable to get a job if and when you give up or finish it. Whereas a regular paid job will help you get more work in the future, may provide opportunities for fulfilment and advancement, and if not will probably give you money which you can use to find fulfilment outside of paid employment.
Don't get a PhD to help you get hired in the future, it will probably damage your chances of doing so. Get a job, which will help you get hired in the future and provide money in the meantime.
posted by plonkee at 6:59 AM on May 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
a non-specific answer. maybe useful...you're in good company. great, even. consider how many people this statement is true for:
"For years, i was paused from life because _______. Now, I'm ready to get going. I'm not seeing how to get going when i'm already over __."
You can figure it out. You will. Lots of us humans must. We are where we are, no judgement. Shame, by the way, helps chain us where we are. Work on dropping that, i think, is the most useful guidance i could add to the conversation.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:23 AM on May 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
"For years, i was paused from life because _______. Now, I'm ready to get going. I'm not seeing how to get going when i'm already over __."
You can figure it out. You will. Lots of us humans must. We are where we are, no judgement. Shame, by the way, helps chain us where we are. Work on dropping that, i think, is the most useful guidance i could add to the conversation.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:23 AM on May 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
Medical details differ, but this could easily have been my Ask several decades ago. What got me over the hump of inadequacy and shame was a very wise elder telling me
We will all lose a decade of our lives sooner or later. Perhaps we'll have a chronic illness in our 30s, or need to care for a parent in our 50s, or have a special-needs child in our 40s, or be utterly destitute and homeless for a decade, etc. We will all unexpectedly lose about ten years, and you have just lost yours sooner than most.
Though I've had my fair share of struggles since, she was so right: I just lost that decade before most of my peers did. Now 50, one way or another I've seen most of them suffer a loss like this since, and I've had the blessing of being able to relate and help when the unthinkable happened for them.
You are not alone. You've got this. :)
posted by riverlife at 6:42 PM on May 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
We will all lose a decade of our lives sooner or later. Perhaps we'll have a chronic illness in our 30s, or need to care for a parent in our 50s, or have a special-needs child in our 40s, or be utterly destitute and homeless for a decade, etc. We will all unexpectedly lose about ten years, and you have just lost yours sooner than most.
Though I've had my fair share of struggles since, she was so right: I just lost that decade before most of my peers did. Now 50, one way or another I've seen most of them suffer a loss like this since, and I've had the blessing of being able to relate and help when the unthinkable happened for them.
You are not alone. You've got this. :)
posted by riverlife at 6:42 PM on May 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
Chiming in as someone else who lost a lot of time. If you are feeling hopeless or useless, the answer is always therapy, psychiatric consultation, and possibly treatment.
Yes, some things, once lost, can never be regained. Some losses have long term, permanent impact that shape our lives, and take our lives in directions we would not have chosen otherwise.
But that is part of life too, and hits most people at some point or another.
Learning to live with what we actually have, rather than the thought of what we might have had, isn't easy under any circumstances, but depression makes it almost impossible.
posted by Salamandrous at 4:19 PM on June 1, 2022
Yes, some things, once lost, can never be regained. Some losses have long term, permanent impact that shape our lives, and take our lives in directions we would not have chosen otherwise.
But that is part of life too, and hits most people at some point or another.
Learning to live with what we actually have, rather than the thought of what we might have had, isn't easy under any circumstances, but depression makes it almost impossible.
posted by Salamandrous at 4:19 PM on June 1, 2022
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