Finding Faith and Understanding Prayer
April 20, 2022 10:29 AM Subscribe
I am a middle-aged man working a job far below my capabilities due to COVID layoffs. I was baptised Baptist last summer alongside my wife, and at the time I felt something that I attributed to something bigger than myself in the months prior, but its faded and doubt has clouded my heart. How did you find faith and how do you recommend someone find faith?
I don't really understand the whole religion thing. I've been placed onto councils in the Church because of my insight which makes me feel even further a fraud. I told my wife about my crisis and I think she was hurt more than anything. I get that too, it almost seems like I was faking it before the baptism.
No one has taught me how to pray. When in meetings and they ask someone to pray at the beginning or end, I'm silent. I don't get it. Shouldn't it be something private and personal? I don't know how to begin or end? I can fake it like the best of them. I go to worship. I take communion. I go to those meetings and make decisions.
I just don't feel anything. What do you recommend? I'd love web resources that I can read. Books are okay, but funds aren't great right now, so web stuff is better. I'd really appreciate anything because I don't think religion should feel like it is grinding my bones. I want to enjoy it.
Thank you.
I don't really understand the whole religion thing. I've been placed onto councils in the Church because of my insight which makes me feel even further a fraud. I told my wife about my crisis and I think she was hurt more than anything. I get that too, it almost seems like I was faking it before the baptism.
No one has taught me how to pray. When in meetings and they ask someone to pray at the beginning or end, I'm silent. I don't get it. Shouldn't it be something private and personal? I don't know how to begin or end? I can fake it like the best of them. I go to worship. I take communion. I go to those meetings and make decisions.
I just don't feel anything. What do you recommend? I'd love web resources that I can read. Books are okay, but funds aren't great right now, so web stuff is better. I'd really appreciate anything because I don't think religion should feel like it is grinding my bones. I want to enjoy it.
Thank you.
I'm currently sort-of agnostic, but was raised in a mainline Protestant tradition and had lots of Southern Baptist friends growing up.
Doubt is part of the whole thing. Everybody doubts, it's not a sign that something's wrong. People often get a big hit of fervor and faith when they convert (no zeal like the newly converted!), but everybody, everybody doubts sometimes.
Can you talk to your pastor or someone else you trust at church? I'm so sorry your wife reacted poorly, you're both new at walking in your faith and again, doubt is so, so common and normal. You probably won't be the first person this month who's come to them with doubts.
Your pastor / mentor can also talk to you about prayer. Prayer is a lot of things, it binds the group, it's a personal relationship with the creator, it's set phrases you repeat to hold onto faith in darkness. Just keep doing it and you'll figure it out. Pray about how you're afraid of praying wrong. But strong recommendation to do at least some of your searching in community, and not just through reading.
posted by momus_window at 10:57 AM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Doubt is part of the whole thing. Everybody doubts, it's not a sign that something's wrong. People often get a big hit of fervor and faith when they convert (no zeal like the newly converted!), but everybody, everybody doubts sometimes.
Can you talk to your pastor or someone else you trust at church? I'm so sorry your wife reacted poorly, you're both new at walking in your faith and again, doubt is so, so common and normal. You probably won't be the first person this month who's come to them with doubts.
Your pastor / mentor can also talk to you about prayer. Prayer is a lot of things, it binds the group, it's a personal relationship with the creator, it's set phrases you repeat to hold onto faith in darkness. Just keep doing it and you'll figure it out. Pray about how you're afraid of praying wrong. But strong recommendation to do at least some of your searching in community, and not just through reading.
posted by momus_window at 10:57 AM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Just so you know, being placed on a council because of your insight, is in my own tradition, the highest form of spiritual accomplishment, in that you have been recognized as having the wisdom and tools to be able to help others. This is not a small thing, and what we are all aiming at getting through the act of prayer or aspiration, to be able to skillfully help ourselves and others.
posted by nanook at 11:14 AM on April 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by nanook at 11:14 AM on April 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
When in meetings and they ask someone to pray at the beginning or end, I'm silent. I don't get it. Shouldn't it be something private and personal?
Prayer can be private and personal, but people also pray publicly in groups, and it's very common in religious groups to open meetings with a prayer. If you are concerned about being called on to offer a prayer, it's a good idea to just pay attention to what the custom is in your church and use similar wording when it's your turn.
Are you reluctant to talk to your pastor? Helping people sort through what happens after being baptized is part of what they are there for. It is very normal to have doubts, and any halfway decent pastor is going to know that this kind of thing comes up and be willing to talk to people about it. There's no quick and easy way to faith - it's more of a lifelong process that involves a lot of thinking and reassessing over time. I was a fundamentalist Christian in high school, and my experience with churches like Baptist churches is there can be a lot of emphasis on the emotion of being "saved," and when people don't retain that emotion (because it's not possible), they may feel like they're doing something wrong. Not having that rush of emotion doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong though. It just means that you're processing what it means to have faith over a lifetime. (I've grown to detest the word journey, but that's how a lot of people would describe it.)
You might want to see if your library has Father James Martin's recent book Learning to Pray. Martin is a Catholic priest, but it's not a particularly Catholic book. It's very basic and written in a very accessible way, and I think it would help with what you're struggling with.
posted by FencingGal at 11:15 AM on April 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
Prayer can be private and personal, but people also pray publicly in groups, and it's very common in religious groups to open meetings with a prayer. If you are concerned about being called on to offer a prayer, it's a good idea to just pay attention to what the custom is in your church and use similar wording when it's your turn.
Are you reluctant to talk to your pastor? Helping people sort through what happens after being baptized is part of what they are there for. It is very normal to have doubts, and any halfway decent pastor is going to know that this kind of thing comes up and be willing to talk to people about it. There's no quick and easy way to faith - it's more of a lifelong process that involves a lot of thinking and reassessing over time. I was a fundamentalist Christian in high school, and my experience with churches like Baptist churches is there can be a lot of emphasis on the emotion of being "saved," and when people don't retain that emotion (because it's not possible), they may feel like they're doing something wrong. Not having that rush of emotion doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong though. It just means that you're processing what it means to have faith over a lifetime. (I've grown to detest the word journey, but that's how a lot of people would describe it.)
You might want to see if your library has Father James Martin's recent book Learning to Pray. Martin is a Catholic priest, but it's not a particularly Catholic book. It's very basic and written in a very accessible way, and I think it would help with what you're struggling with.
posted by FencingGal at 11:15 AM on April 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
You know the stories of Jesus being a shepherd and his followers being the flock? I'm the dirtiest sheep at the back of the flock, falling over, getting stuck, being distracted by butterflies, etc. I was a Catholic, an Episcopalian, and now I watch weekly services of a Methodist church 3,000 miles away on Youtube. I have faith, I doubt, I get angry, I fall over, I get back up and rejoin the back of the flock.
Being raised Catholic, I had to memorize prayers for everything and they were just that: rote and emotionless. A while ago, I read a book from Anne Lamott (problematic, but apologized and has done better) called Help, Thanks, Wow: The Three Essential Prayers. The title is the message: prayers are either Help (ugh Lord this world is a mess and a half and I just cannot, please HELP me get through this janky week and please HELP my dying friend J transition peacefully), Thanks (THANK you for this sunshiney day, it's a balm and made even this day of awkward meetings go better), and Wow (that ocean sunset...Wow).
If I had to say that to open a group, I'd say, "Lord, thank you as always for your help and assistance, please guide us today as we try to {work on this church budget/figure out a ministry solution/purpose of the meeting}..."
I have a few friends who are steadfast in their faith but most of us are just all over the place. It'll be okay.
posted by kimberussell at 11:31 AM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Being raised Catholic, I had to memorize prayers for everything and they were just that: rote and emotionless. A while ago, I read a book from Anne Lamott (problematic, but apologized and has done better) called Help, Thanks, Wow: The Three Essential Prayers. The title is the message: prayers are either Help (ugh Lord this world is a mess and a half and I just cannot, please HELP me get through this janky week and please HELP my dying friend J transition peacefully), Thanks (THANK you for this sunshiney day, it's a balm and made even this day of awkward meetings go better), and Wow (that ocean sunset...Wow).
If I had to say that to open a group, I'd say, "Lord, thank you as always for your help and assistance, please guide us today as we try to {work on this church budget/figure out a ministry solution/purpose of the meeting}..."
I have a few friends who are steadfast in their faith but most of us are just all over the place. It'll be okay.
posted by kimberussell at 11:31 AM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
When you signed up you may have been buoyed up by group psychology and approval. It is possible you simply don't believe. It can be mimicked socially but it can't be forced internally. Be honest with yourself; whether you can afford to be honest with other people I do not know.
posted by zadcat at 11:38 AM on April 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by zadcat at 11:38 AM on April 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
"Why is there something instead of nothing?" (David Berman)
"How strange it is to be anything at all" (Jeff Magnum).
Over the last few years I have experienced several prolonged periods of "Oceanic Affect":
But 4 months out of 30ish means that I have also had ~26 months of knowing that I had experienced that feeling in the past, without being able to access it on demand. In those 26 months I have had some of the most painful periods of anxiety, depression, conflict, struggle. During these periods, when I've remembered my Oceanic experiences, the remembering has not always given me solace. Often I wonder if I will ever feel that way again.
Not being able to access the feeling does not negate the truth of the feeling. I suspect that that is what faith is for some of us. Your baptism came from a true place within you — no doubt buoyed "by group psychology and approval", but also coming to you as a kind of oneness with a much larger group: i.e., everything that exists.
I don't believe that a conscious, human-shaped, gendered entity has caused the universe to exist, and especially not that He specifically created me in His image. But nevertheless it is the case that I exist, and it's amazing to exist, and even when I don't feel amazing in my existence, I can remind myself that the existence of anything is miraculous. How strange it is to be anything at all.
These questions you are asking yourself are the core of religious seeking. Making meaning of the contradiction between "miraculous existence" and "doubtful suffering" is why we come together to make meaning of our lives. You belong in those councils and your question here belongs in your church too.
You're doing great.
posted by xueexueg at 12:15 PM on April 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
"How strange it is to be anything at all" (Jeff Magnum).
Over the last few years I have experienced several prolonged periods of "Oceanic Affect":
"a sensation of 'eternity'", a feeling of "being one with the external world as a whole"...At least 4 times since 2019 I have had a solid month of feeling intensely connected with what we might as well call "God". Through this, I thought I finally understood faith, thought I had finally found it, that I had found my own internal religion & relationship with God. Sometimes I called it a State of Grace: every atom in the universe singing its love to me.
According to Rolland, this feeling is the source of all the religious energy that permeates in various religious systems, and one may justifiably call oneself religious on the basis of this oceanic feeling alone, even if one renounces every belief and every illusion
But 4 months out of 30ish means that I have also had ~26 months of knowing that I had experienced that feeling in the past, without being able to access it on demand. In those 26 months I have had some of the most painful periods of anxiety, depression, conflict, struggle. During these periods, when I've remembered my Oceanic experiences, the remembering has not always given me solace. Often I wonder if I will ever feel that way again.
Not being able to access the feeling does not negate the truth of the feeling. I suspect that that is what faith is for some of us. Your baptism came from a true place within you — no doubt buoyed "by group psychology and approval", but also coming to you as a kind of oneness with a much larger group: i.e., everything that exists.
I don't believe that a conscious, human-shaped, gendered entity has caused the universe to exist, and especially not that He specifically created me in His image. But nevertheless it is the case that I exist, and it's amazing to exist, and even when I don't feel amazing in my existence, I can remind myself that the existence of anything is miraculous. How strange it is to be anything at all.
These questions you are asking yourself are the core of religious seeking. Making meaning of the contradiction between "miraculous existence" and "doubtful suffering" is why we come together to make meaning of our lives. You belong in those councils and your question here belongs in your church too.
You're doing great.
posted by xueexueg at 12:15 PM on April 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
For me, I look at my work in the community (e.g., volunteering) and how it makes me feel good. I wonder why that is: why do I care about others? And the movement inside me that makes me want to give, is where I start from.
Personally, the moral framework of doing right by others is what I find valuable. The rhythm of evening prayer & the Mass is good. I have a few writers who make sense without being cloying: Thomas Merton, for example, and Dorothy Day.
I am Catholic, with a house full of young adults -- so I hear the questioning all the time! And if you're honest, it can be hard to pray outward without an immediate answer. My prayers are brief -- very much like kimberussell says -- and I wait to see answers when I see beauty in the world, or other people doing good things.
I don't think I am an especially good Catholic, but I am a pretty good Christian...and it sounds like you're that way, too. Keep the faith, man!
posted by wenestvedt at 12:35 PM on April 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Personally, the moral framework of doing right by others is what I find valuable. The rhythm of evening prayer & the Mass is good. I have a few writers who make sense without being cloying: Thomas Merton, for example, and Dorothy Day.
I am Catholic, with a house full of young adults -- so I hear the questioning all the time! And if you're honest, it can be hard to pray outward without an immediate answer. My prayers are brief -- very much like kimberussell says -- and I wait to see answers when I see beauty in the world, or other people doing good things.
I don't think I am an especially good Catholic, but I am a pretty good Christian...and it sounds like you're that way, too. Keep the faith, man!
posted by wenestvedt at 12:35 PM on April 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
You may find Come Be My Light: The private writings of the Saint of Calcutta an interesting read. I found it remarkably relatable and comforting to see how much doubt Mother Teresa experienced in her life.
posted by 10ch at 12:44 PM on April 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by 10ch at 12:44 PM on April 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
There is some good advice already posted, to which I'll add that prayer can simply be a sense of gratitude. The work of David Steindl-Rast is, I think, some of the best I've seen on this angle. He is rooted in Trappist (which is to say Benedictine) tradition, but his work is widely accessible.
Also, consider: there is no one way to pray. There are ways to read and mediate over scripture slowly (what we Catholics call lectio divina). There is structured liturgical prayer (the Mass chief among them, but also in the cycle of psalms that are prayed throughout the day), spontaneous prayer as you're moved in that moment ("Thank you for this!" or maybe just as easily "This sucks and I don't like it!"). Prayer can be a petition, where we ask for something for ourselves or intercede on behalf of others. Resting quietly in silence and simply listening is also prayer. This last one takes some practice; I can recommend Martin Laird's Into the Silent Land as a good introduction.
Your desire to pray is a beautiful sign - God's grace is working within you!
posted by jquinby at 12:46 PM on April 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, consider: there is no one way to pray. There are ways to read and mediate over scripture slowly (what we Catholics call lectio divina). There is structured liturgical prayer (the Mass chief among them, but also in the cycle of psalms that are prayed throughout the day), spontaneous prayer as you're moved in that moment ("Thank you for this!" or maybe just as easily "This sucks and I don't like it!"). Prayer can be a petition, where we ask for something for ourselves or intercede on behalf of others. Resting quietly in silence and simply listening is also prayer. This last one takes some practice; I can recommend Martin Laird's Into the Silent Land as a good introduction.
Your desire to pray is a beautiful sign - God's grace is working within you!
posted by jquinby at 12:46 PM on April 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
There's a book called "Here if You Need Me" about a woman who is suddenly widowed, who studies to be a Unitarian minister. The book is short chapters about the work she does with state game officers as a chaplain, and about grief, and about love.
It's short enough to be "an easy read," but many of the stories made tears start in my eyes.
I bring it up because she seeks a lot, and waits for answers to find her. I read it during a stressful time in my life, and found that it brought me some calm.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:00 PM on April 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's short enough to be "an easy read," but many of the stories made tears start in my eyes.
I bring it up because she seeks a lot, and waits for answers to find her. I read it during a stressful time in my life, and found that it brought me some calm.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:00 PM on April 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
One more thing: your praying might just be your internal monologue, and that would be just fine!
Victim no. 0001 on 9/11 was beloved fire department chaplain Father Mychal Judge. I keep a copy of his prayer in my wallet:
posted by wenestvedt at 1:04 PM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Victim no. 0001 on 9/11 was beloved fire department chaplain Father Mychal Judge. I keep a copy of his prayer in my wallet:
Lord, take me where You want me to goIf that guy -- a priest -- prayed with such plain speech, you are going to be fine, too, whatever you say.
Let me meet who You want me to meet
Tell me what You want me to say and
Keep me out of your way.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:04 PM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
I came to mention Mother Teresa as well. But at some point, I've found it's better to just stop overthinking. You believe even if there's no particular reason to believe. Just tell yourself you believe. There is an aspect of "fake it 'til you make it", but it's not actually faking it. That's why it's called "faith", after all.
posted by kevinbelt at 1:58 PM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 1:58 PM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
FWIW in the Christian tradition doubt is a part of faith, and is part of a much more authentically "religious" worldview than, say, just walking around giving chipper assertions of belief all the time.
posted by kensington314 at 2:28 PM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 2:28 PM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
I am a Buddhist, but have been working a lot with faith, so hopefully some of this will be helpful!
In my tradition we translate a Sanskrit word as "faith," but it can also be translated as "confidence." For me, this is confidence in the path I'm on, in my own capacity to improve and make progress, in the effectiveness of the tradition in which I'm practicing.
Faith can come from our experience of others who've been on the path longer, it can come from noticing changes within ourselves, and it can also come from an experience of the transcendental! Which reminds me of this part of your question:
...at the time I felt something that I attributed to something bigger than myself in the months prior, but its faded and doubt has clouded my heart.
Because your circumstances are a slog right now (especially work), it's hard to get in touch with the transcendental - a sense of something bigger than yourself, of meaning, of oneness, whatever that means to you. And that sense leads to faith and can help to strengthen it.
Might I suggest that on your next day off, you engage in an activity which has worked to create this feeling for you in the past? For me that might be: visiting an art museum, reading an old favorite book that has inspired me (hopefully this is something you already own, or can check out from your local library), taking a walk in nature or watching birds, or getting up early enough to watch the sunset somewhere nice. Maybe for you it would be setting aside time for prayer by yourself at your church or in place you love. Sometimes these experiences can create just a flash that gives you sense of your place in the vastness of the universe. If you know what I mean - try and get into some art or nature or solitude soon.
Apart from that, I'd see if you can make more connections with others in your church, maybe take a walk or get coffee or work on a project together, which will help remind you why you felt inspired to join this community.
In my experience it can be hard to be in the same religious community with your significant other, because you'll be in different places at different times, as you are now, so forming relationships with others in your church can help so that you're not relying on each other to bolster your faith.
posted by Isingthebodyelectric at 3:14 PM on April 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
In my tradition we translate a Sanskrit word as "faith," but it can also be translated as "confidence." For me, this is confidence in the path I'm on, in my own capacity to improve and make progress, in the effectiveness of the tradition in which I'm practicing.
Faith can come from our experience of others who've been on the path longer, it can come from noticing changes within ourselves, and it can also come from an experience of the transcendental! Which reminds me of this part of your question:
...at the time I felt something that I attributed to something bigger than myself in the months prior, but its faded and doubt has clouded my heart.
Because your circumstances are a slog right now (especially work), it's hard to get in touch with the transcendental - a sense of something bigger than yourself, of meaning, of oneness, whatever that means to you. And that sense leads to faith and can help to strengthen it.
Might I suggest that on your next day off, you engage in an activity which has worked to create this feeling for you in the past? For me that might be: visiting an art museum, reading an old favorite book that has inspired me (hopefully this is something you already own, or can check out from your local library), taking a walk in nature or watching birds, or getting up early enough to watch the sunset somewhere nice. Maybe for you it would be setting aside time for prayer by yourself at your church or in place you love. Sometimes these experiences can create just a flash that gives you sense of your place in the vastness of the universe. If you know what I mean - try and get into some art or nature or solitude soon.
Apart from that, I'd see if you can make more connections with others in your church, maybe take a walk or get coffee or work on a project together, which will help remind you why you felt inspired to join this community.
In my experience it can be hard to be in the same religious community with your significant other, because you'll be in different places at different times, as you are now, so forming relationships with others in your church can help so that you're not relying on each other to bolster your faith.
posted by Isingthebodyelectric at 3:14 PM on April 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Rabbi Nachman of Breslov recommended a practice which can loosely just be called 'talking to God,' (hitbodedut) in your own words and about whatever is on your mind. Go for a walk, and talk like you're telling a friend about your day. This is also prayer. Doing it every day, you will develop a relationship with the one you talk to. It doesn't happen all at once, it's something that happens slowly over years.
posted by epanalepsis at 3:22 PM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by epanalepsis at 3:22 PM on April 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Wow, you've set a high bar for me. I have accumulated a lot of (what I consider) valuable perspectives on God, prayer, faith, religion, spirituality, etc. But in general they are in the form of books or book summaries which you would prefer I avoid. So I'll give it a shot.
In my opinion this Youtube video is a great 30 minute deep dive into how the Christian religion is supposed to work. It's (probably) not what you think.
To me C. S. Lewis essays and books are great, and The Trouble with "X" is relatively short and useful.
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." — G. K. Chesterton
Another perspective on Christianity can be seen in this piece: The Reverse Rapture.
"People were created to be loved. Things were created to be used. The reason why the world is in chaos is because things are being loved and people are being used." — John Green
"The disciple simply burns his boats and goes ahead. He is called out... The old life is left behind, and completely surrendered. The disciple is dragged out of his relative security into a life of absolute insecurity... out of the realm of the finite...into the realm of infinite possibilities." — Dietrich Bonhoeffer
To bring it closer to your original question, on the odd occasion when I am asked to pray (I'm thinking Thanksgiving dinner at my house) I try to think on all these different perspectives and then present the needs of the world, the needs of those in front of me and the needs of our children and grandchildren.
"God speaks in the silence of the heart, and we listen. And then we speak to God from the fullness of our heart, and God listens. And this listening and this speaking is what prayer is meant to be..." — Mother Teresa
posted by forthright at 6:43 PM on April 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
In my opinion this Youtube video is a great 30 minute deep dive into how the Christian religion is supposed to work. It's (probably) not what you think.
To me C. S. Lewis essays and books are great, and The Trouble with "X" is relatively short and useful.
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." — G. K. Chesterton
Another perspective on Christianity can be seen in this piece: The Reverse Rapture.
"People were created to be loved. Things were created to be used. The reason why the world is in chaos is because things are being loved and people are being used." — John Green
"The disciple simply burns his boats and goes ahead. He is called out... The old life is left behind, and completely surrendered. The disciple is dragged out of his relative security into a life of absolute insecurity... out of the realm of the finite...into the realm of infinite possibilities." — Dietrich Bonhoeffer
To bring it closer to your original question, on the odd occasion when I am asked to pray (I'm thinking Thanksgiving dinner at my house) I try to think on all these different perspectives and then present the needs of the world, the needs of those in front of me and the needs of our children and grandchildren.
"God speaks in the silence of the heart, and we listen. And then we speak to God from the fullness of our heart, and God listens. And this listening and this speaking is what prayer is meant to be..." — Mother Teresa
posted by forthright at 6:43 PM on April 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
There's an aspect to your question that fits nicely into the metaphor of the horizon line. It's the limit of reality that you can conceive and your place in it. When you made that initial connection to the mysterious Other, that connection became a new horizon line. In the same way that you can navigate unconsciously around a small town you've lived in for 10+ years, your initial awareness can go right back to sleep if you just limit it to the creed you started with.
That doesn't mean you have to relentlessly peel the onion, grind on spiritual exploration to stay awake, but you do need more ways to access that mysterious Other. Prayer is one, volunteering to serve, scripture reading, meditation/reflection, spiritual conversation are others. The push to make you serve in community is a common one to help you engage with the reality of Christian principles.
Religions and denominations are generally going to be better at some than others. Baptists get lumped into Protestantism which in my experience has less robustness when it comes to prayer and meditation. It's there, there just isn't much formal training. For prayer, I'd recommend reading up on Thomas Merton, a Trappist monk - there's several readings of the short "Thomas Merton prayer" on YouTube. I've read his book Contemplative Prayer, but it may be a little too intellectual if you're just looking for practices. Side note, your local library may have more books in this space than you realize.
As far as public prayer goes, I generally like to start with something I'm grateful for that others will resonate with. Maybe include something that helps orient the work the group is about to undergo, a larger theme or something larger than ourselves that gets everyone out of a self-satisfied ego trip. Remembering those who are experiencing war or poverty or hunger and asking for their protection can help with refocusing your priorities. Use cues for beginnings and endings from others who are already doing it. "Dear Lord,..." "...In Christ's name we pray, amen." These can feel like form letters, but they can also invoke sacred space to converse with God.
As far as dealing with doubt, where the Baptists excel is in scripture analysis. Find Bible passages that deal with doubt - the Exodus story would be good, as would the story of Jonah. The gospel that relates the disciples response to Jesus' arrest and crucifixation (can't remember which one that is) is another that comes to mind. Read and reflect, note the questions that arise for you. Take that to your pastor, it will help the discussion feel less like a generic therapy session. They may have additional recommendations based on the questions that arose for you.
Finally, this may be a stretch, but these days I'm getting a lot from a series of videos by John Vervaeke. This stuff is more philsophical than religious, but the episode on Agape may pull you a little deeper into the Christian stream.
posted by SoundInhabitant at 7:27 AM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
That doesn't mean you have to relentlessly peel the onion, grind on spiritual exploration to stay awake, but you do need more ways to access that mysterious Other. Prayer is one, volunteering to serve, scripture reading, meditation/reflection, spiritual conversation are others. The push to make you serve in community is a common one to help you engage with the reality of Christian principles.
Religions and denominations are generally going to be better at some than others. Baptists get lumped into Protestantism which in my experience has less robustness when it comes to prayer and meditation. It's there, there just isn't much formal training. For prayer, I'd recommend reading up on Thomas Merton, a Trappist monk - there's several readings of the short "Thomas Merton prayer" on YouTube. I've read his book Contemplative Prayer, but it may be a little too intellectual if you're just looking for practices. Side note, your local library may have more books in this space than you realize.
As far as public prayer goes, I generally like to start with something I'm grateful for that others will resonate with. Maybe include something that helps orient the work the group is about to undergo, a larger theme or something larger than ourselves that gets everyone out of a self-satisfied ego trip. Remembering those who are experiencing war or poverty or hunger and asking for their protection can help with refocusing your priorities. Use cues for beginnings and endings from others who are already doing it. "Dear Lord,..." "...In Christ's name we pray, amen." These can feel like form letters, but they can also invoke sacred space to converse with God.
As far as dealing with doubt, where the Baptists excel is in scripture analysis. Find Bible passages that deal with doubt - the Exodus story would be good, as would the story of Jonah. The gospel that relates the disciples response to Jesus' arrest and crucifixation (can't remember which one that is) is another that comes to mind. Read and reflect, note the questions that arise for you. Take that to your pastor, it will help the discussion feel less like a generic therapy session. They may have additional recommendations based on the questions that arose for you.
Finally, this may be a stretch, but these days I'm getting a lot from a series of videos by John Vervaeke. This stuff is more philsophical than religious, but the episode on Agape may pull you a little deeper into the Christian stream.
posted by SoundInhabitant at 7:27 AM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also try Marc Gellman. He writes a newspaper column called "The God Squad." He's a rabbi who used to co-write the column with a priest called Tommy, but then Tommy died. I'm a total nonbeliever but his columns are so kindhearted and decent to people who write in with questions that it did help me understand at least a little bit how people can have faith and find comfort in religion. I read his columns every Saturday 'til the paper stopped Saturday delivery.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:45 AM on April 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 7:45 AM on April 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
I am religious but I am not Baptist. I think your faith should inspire you to be a better person. To me that means striving to love the world more, and to live my life according to my values. One of the ways that it can do that is by helping you connect to that which is greater than you are. Your own tradition may have spiritual practices that help with this, for example prayers or contemplative thought. Many Christians find inspiration in the Bible, both in the stories of Jesus' life and teachings and in the psalms. For a more irreverent, but still devout take, I can recommend both the Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis, and the writings of Nadia Bolz-Weber, a Lutheran minister. My favourite of hers is 'Some Modern Beatitudes'.
In my own tradition, beginning a meeting with devotions (basically prayer) is a really helpful way of helping us to remember that although we may be meeting for business, what we are doing is also part of living our faith and that how we do things is as important as what we do.
posted by plonkee at 10:01 AM on April 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
In my own tradition, beginning a meeting with devotions (basically prayer) is a really helpful way of helping us to remember that although we may be meeting for business, what we are doing is also part of living our faith and that how we do things is as important as what we do.
posted by plonkee at 10:01 AM on April 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Many people have said many things here that are all great, and people have given great perspective on personal and private prayer. I will take a different tack and note that prayer can be individual or corporate or something in between, and it sounds to me like part of what you're reacting to is that the prayers you're being asked to lead are in between. I'm coming from an Episcopalian perspective here, but I have worshiped in Baptist churches before so I hope that I'm not saying something totally foreign to your context.
When we pray something in set language - like the Our Father - as a group, everyone is "pointing their noses in the same direction." Episcopalians like to recite creeds together, like the Apostle's Creed (which is something Baptists don't do so much), but in those situations something I like to say to people is: if the creed includes something you don't believe in, or if the prayers include something that doesn't speak to you today, don't worry about it. That's part of why we pray corporately: in moments when I find myself far from God, and I can't pray, or when I am in a moment of doubt and I can't profess my faith, I have proof all around me that other people feel close to God, that they're praying for me, and even that they're professing faith for me. By being with other people in those prayers and confessions, I can participate in the life of the church even when it's a low moment in my faith journey. (Other people have noted this and that doubt is a part of faith!)
Individual prayers should certainly be private, between you and God, and in those prayers you can be the most honest and personal, because nobody else has to hear them. Individual prayer is a wonderful thing and has no formal requirements. God hears the deepest "groans" of our heart, we're told. We don't have to show off for God in that regard. They can be the most spontaneous.
But in between corporate and individual prayer—spontaneous prayer in public or in a group is usually about half about God and half about social interaction. If someone prays aloud to a group of people about their personal experiences, part of the point is that other people witness that prayer and understand them better and have the opportunity to pray for them, which is a social bonding experience as well as potentially efficacious! If they pray something spontaneous that's about the concerns of the group, then the point is like when we say an Our Father - getting everyone's noses pointed in the same direction. A lot of times, opening prayers at church meetings etc are like this.
So I would encourage you to think about this not just as prayer to God (which it is) but also as public speech to people. Think about what you need to pray for in that moment, and what you're grateful for among the assembled people. When I say a spontaneous prayer, I sometimes use a formula, which might or might not be appropriate to the tone of your church:
1) Recall something God has done in the past that's relevant to the current situation. So if I'm leading a vestry meeting with people coming from lots of perspectives: "Let us pray. Lord, at Pentecost you brought the inspiration of the Holy Spirit down on your people, enabling them to speak truth to each other and be understood, no matter where they came from or where they went."
2) Thank God for what God has done both in the past and present related to this recollection. "Thank you, Lord, for bringing this vestry together today, and for the spiritual gifts you have given to each of us. Thank you for [list various people and their gifts]."
2a) If there's any specific and personal needs you know people who are listening might have, or needs you have that you'd like to let people know about and have them pray on, name them here. "Lord, you know that [name] is very ill, so ill that she can't be with us today. Send your healing spirit upon her and stay with her always. Also, Lord, be with me as I present the budget; guide my words and help me speak clearly and accurately, because you sure know I'm nervous."
3) Ask God for what everyone gathered needs right now. "Lord, give inspiration to us today as you did your followers at Pentecost. Let the Holy Spirit work in each of our hearts. Give us eyes to see and ears to hear each other's perspectives. Give us sharp minds and help us come to necessary compromises. When we disagree, give us hearts to understand and be kind to one another. And send us your wisdom as we make choices about what to do with the resources you have given this congregation."
4) End with "In Jesus' name we pray, amen" or something like that.
I know it may seem weird to have a formula for something that's supposed to be spontaneous, but I find it really, really helps in those specific social situations.
posted by branca at 10:41 AM on April 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
When we pray something in set language - like the Our Father - as a group, everyone is "pointing their noses in the same direction." Episcopalians like to recite creeds together, like the Apostle's Creed (which is something Baptists don't do so much), but in those situations something I like to say to people is: if the creed includes something you don't believe in, or if the prayers include something that doesn't speak to you today, don't worry about it. That's part of why we pray corporately: in moments when I find myself far from God, and I can't pray, or when I am in a moment of doubt and I can't profess my faith, I have proof all around me that other people feel close to God, that they're praying for me, and even that they're professing faith for me. By being with other people in those prayers and confessions, I can participate in the life of the church even when it's a low moment in my faith journey. (Other people have noted this and that doubt is a part of faith!)
Individual prayers should certainly be private, between you and God, and in those prayers you can be the most honest and personal, because nobody else has to hear them. Individual prayer is a wonderful thing and has no formal requirements. God hears the deepest "groans" of our heart, we're told. We don't have to show off for God in that regard. They can be the most spontaneous.
But in between corporate and individual prayer—spontaneous prayer in public or in a group is usually about half about God and half about social interaction. If someone prays aloud to a group of people about their personal experiences, part of the point is that other people witness that prayer and understand them better and have the opportunity to pray for them, which is a social bonding experience as well as potentially efficacious! If they pray something spontaneous that's about the concerns of the group, then the point is like when we say an Our Father - getting everyone's noses pointed in the same direction. A lot of times, opening prayers at church meetings etc are like this.
So I would encourage you to think about this not just as prayer to God (which it is) but also as public speech to people. Think about what you need to pray for in that moment, and what you're grateful for among the assembled people. When I say a spontaneous prayer, I sometimes use a formula, which might or might not be appropriate to the tone of your church:
1) Recall something God has done in the past that's relevant to the current situation. So if I'm leading a vestry meeting with people coming from lots of perspectives: "Let us pray. Lord, at Pentecost you brought the inspiration of the Holy Spirit down on your people, enabling them to speak truth to each other and be understood, no matter where they came from or where they went."
2) Thank God for what God has done both in the past and present related to this recollection. "Thank you, Lord, for bringing this vestry together today, and for the spiritual gifts you have given to each of us. Thank you for [list various people and their gifts]."
2a) If there's any specific and personal needs you know people who are listening might have, or needs you have that you'd like to let people know about and have them pray on, name them here. "Lord, you know that [name] is very ill, so ill that she can't be with us today. Send your healing spirit upon her and stay with her always. Also, Lord, be with me as I present the budget; guide my words and help me speak clearly and accurately, because you sure know I'm nervous."
3) Ask God for what everyone gathered needs right now. "Lord, give inspiration to us today as you did your followers at Pentecost. Let the Holy Spirit work in each of our hearts. Give us eyes to see and ears to hear each other's perspectives. Give us sharp minds and help us come to necessary compromises. When we disagree, give us hearts to understand and be kind to one another. And send us your wisdom as we make choices about what to do with the resources you have given this congregation."
4) End with "In Jesus' name we pray, amen" or something like that.
I know it may seem weird to have a formula for something that's supposed to be spontaneous, but I find it really, really helps in those specific social situations.
posted by branca at 10:41 AM on April 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
I often turn to a common prayer:
Help me if you can / I'm feelin' down
An' I do appreciate you bein' 'round
Help me get my feet back on the ground
Won't you please, please help me
Help
John Lennon
1966
Prayer issued with tears on our cheeks gets moved to the front of the queue
posted by dancestoblue at 2:04 PM on April 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Help me if you can / I'm feelin' down
An' I do appreciate you bein' 'round
Help me get my feet back on the ground
Won't you please, please help me
Help
John Lennon
1966
Prayer issued with tears on our cheeks gets moved to the front of the queue
posted by dancestoblue at 2:04 PM on April 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
"Prayer is not a sermon delivered to God. Essential in prayer is the intention, not the technical skill. In oratory, as in any other work of art, we endeavor to lend an adequate form to an idea; we apply all our care to adjusting the form to the content. But prayer is almost pure content; the form is unimportant. It makes no difference whether we stammer or are eloquent. We can concentrate entirely on our inner devotion."
He has much more to say on the subject of prayer that is worthy of reading.
Rabbi Heschel, also has helpful words relating to doubt and faith.
posted by brookeb at 10:53 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]