How to help a relative go about getting a marriage annulment?
March 18, 2022 10:46 PM Subscribe
It's a real-life Cio-Cio-san situation (minus a kid or suicide--she's alive) that happened 50 years ago. And it would bring closure for the family to get official US documentation that says the marriage is annulled, that could be used to get the Japanese papers sorted. How do I accomplish this legally and with the least amount of additional trauma to our loved one, without access to a lot of funds or bandwidth to travel?
Sorry to hold out, but I can't reveal personal details. And I wish the guy no harm. All we want is to get his name crossed off of the Japanese paperwork.
What I can say, is:
- Assume the guy knows he has unfinished business, which he has never attempted to make right
- Assume age 75ish for both
- Various family members over the decades have sent him certified letters, to which he never responded
- Decades ago, a now-deceased relative of means hired a stateside lawyer to help get divorce papers signed, to no avail
- Google searches for his name still show an association with his Kate (sorry, another Madame Butterfly reference)
- We have his full name and social security number
Some thoughts:
1. Is it as easy as somehow proving abandonment to the US government to get an annulment? How?
2. Could applying for social security benefits be used as an opportunity for the government to investigate? Will this journey take forever?
3. Do I write to...the US Embassy in Japan to ask for help? What would I say?
4. If the guy somehow got legally married again, and I could somehow find a copy of the marriage certificate, could that be used for an annulment?
My biggest consideration is involving the loved one as little as possible and only for a sure thing. (Or at least involve a process that can be verified by an authority.) I cannot put her through a goose chase that doesn't pan out.
Would appreciate ideas to pursue. The more specific, the better. Thanks!
Sorry to hold out, but I can't reveal personal details. And I wish the guy no harm. All we want is to get his name crossed off of the Japanese paperwork.
What I can say, is:
- Assume the guy knows he has unfinished business, which he has never attempted to make right
- Assume age 75ish for both
- Various family members over the decades have sent him certified letters, to which he never responded
- Decades ago, a now-deceased relative of means hired a stateside lawyer to help get divorce papers signed, to no avail
- Google searches for his name still show an association with his Kate (sorry, another Madame Butterfly reference)
- We have his full name and social security number
Some thoughts:
1. Is it as easy as somehow proving abandonment to the US government to get an annulment? How?
2. Could applying for social security benefits be used as an opportunity for the government to investigate? Will this journey take forever?
3. Do I write to...the US Embassy in Japan to ask for help? What would I say?
4. If the guy somehow got legally married again, and I could somehow find a copy of the marriage certificate, could that be used for an annulment?
My biggest consideration is involving the loved one as little as possible and only for a sure thing. (Or at least involve a process that can be verified by an authority.) I cannot put her through a goose chase that doesn't pan out.
Would appreciate ideas to pursue. The more specific, the better. Thanks!
Wait, did the wedding occur in Japan or in the US?
posted by amtho at 2:25 AM on March 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 2:25 AM on March 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Even if you get a US divorce or annulment it doesn’t mean it can be used to get Japanese papers sorted. A little googling finds a case where Japan refused to recognize a divorce granted by a German court because it did not comply with Japanese procedures. You need a lawyer.
posted by phoenixy at 5:47 AM on March 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by phoenixy at 5:47 AM on March 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: You may need two lawyers - one in the jurisdiction where the marriage took place; and one in the jurisdiction where you need to demonstrate that the marriage ended or was annulled. I would start with the latter.
posted by haptic_avenger at 6:58 AM on March 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by haptic_avenger at 6:58 AM on March 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also wanted to add … don’t be intimidated by the process of finding a lawyer. The right lawyer will do a free intake session and really help you understand the scope of what you’re trying to do. They may even be able to limit costs by providing you advice on the paperwork you need to do, then you do it yourself.
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:02 AM on March 19, 2022
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:02 AM on March 19, 2022
Response by poster: Thanks, all, for the ideas. Your questions prompted some good conversation and leads from the family.
The marriage was in Japan and recognized by the "Department of State, Foreign Service of the United States of America". I believe he left to serve in Vietnam, went home, and never came back. I'm not in Japan or in the part of the US where the guy presumably resides.
- The marriage certificate is from the American Embassy in Tokyo, signed by the vice consul at the time.
- There's also a document on letterhead from the Department of The Air Force granting approval and authorization to proceed to Japan, and to get briefed "on procedures for marrying under Japanese law and to pick up documents required by the American Consulate."
- There's also a letter from 1980 from the vice consul of the Embassy at that time saying they have no record of the whereabouts of this man and that they can't help. They suggest contacting the Consulate General of Japan closest to where he lives. Or the Air Reserve Personnel Center. Don't know if anyone did this. I suppose I should try now.
Followup question: what would be the type of lawyer to assist with this? Maybe this is a question for both the US Embassy and Japanese Consulate.
posted by maiamai at 8:45 AM on March 19, 2022
The marriage was in Japan and recognized by the "Department of State, Foreign Service of the United States of America". I believe he left to serve in Vietnam, went home, and never came back. I'm not in Japan or in the part of the US where the guy presumably resides.
- The marriage certificate is from the American Embassy in Tokyo, signed by the vice consul at the time.
- There's also a document on letterhead from the Department of The Air Force granting approval and authorization to proceed to Japan, and to get briefed "on procedures for marrying under Japanese law and to pick up documents required by the American Consulate."
- There's also a letter from 1980 from the vice consul of the Embassy at that time saying they have no record of the whereabouts of this man and that they can't help. They suggest contacting the Consulate General of Japan closest to where he lives. Or the Air Reserve Personnel Center. Don't know if anyone did this. I suppose I should try now.
Followup question: what would be the type of lawyer to assist with this? Maybe this is a question for both the US Embassy and Japanese Consulate.
posted by maiamai at 8:45 AM on March 19, 2022
Can you say more about why you want the annullment? Is this about claiming benefits or something related to legal status in Japan? Because it sounds like your relative could potentially have some benefits due from the US military.
posted by haptic_avenger at 10:41 AM on March 19, 2022
posted by haptic_avenger at 10:41 AM on March 19, 2022
Response by poster: Sounds like an annulment is not what we want but cooperation for a divorce. All we want is to get the relative her maiden name back in the Japanese family registry. Don’t care about claim to benefits, but if that’s the route that could lead to documentation that he’s dissolved the marriage under some jurisdiction, happy to explore that.
posted by maiamai at 11:08 AM on March 19, 2022
posted by maiamai at 11:08 AM on March 19, 2022
Best answer: I think it's really all going to come down to what the Japanese courts will recognize and accept. It seems like an important step would be to contact a Japanese family law practice. Your relative can't file/sue for divorce in the American courts because she doesn't live in the US. If the guy lives in the US, he could divorce her in the American courts.
But! When you say, "His Kate," do you mean he actually married someone else after marrying your relative? If so, he either got a divorce from your relative (before the marriage to Kate) or he committed bigamy. Given that most people take bigamy pretty seriously, it's highly plausible that he divorced your relative without her knowledge - he would be have been required to notify her and serve papers, but if he was unable to find her then there are alternate ways of "notifying" that basically amount to posting a notice in the newspaper.
So it's possible your relative is already divorced, in which case you would need to track down the divorce decree (which is a public document that you can generally obtain an official copy of for like $20). I only know how to find a divorce decree if you already know the date and location of the divorce, but I'm sure there are ways to do it if you have less information (there are definitely some paid services that claim to be able to search all kinds of public records, but I don't know which ones are good and which ones are scammy).
posted by mskyle at 3:13 PM on March 19, 2022
But! When you say, "His Kate," do you mean he actually married someone else after marrying your relative? If so, he either got a divorce from your relative (before the marriage to Kate) or he committed bigamy. Given that most people take bigamy pretty seriously, it's highly plausible that he divorced your relative without her knowledge - he would be have been required to notify her and serve papers, but if he was unable to find her then there are alternate ways of "notifying" that basically amount to posting a notice in the newspaper.
So it's possible your relative is already divorced, in which case you would need to track down the divorce decree (which is a public document that you can generally obtain an official copy of for like $20). I only know how to find a divorce decree if you already know the date and location of the divorce, but I'm sure there are ways to do it if you have less information (there are definitely some paid services that claim to be able to search all kinds of public records, but I don't know which ones are good and which ones are scammy).
posted by mskyle at 3:13 PM on March 19, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
Second, I'm not sure that you really want an annulment - a ruling that the marriage was never legally valid, if granted, it would be as if the marriage never happened. Here are the rules for California. You can see that they are very specific and mostly have a time limit of only a few years.
On the other hand, if a divorce will meet your loved one's needs, a California resident can get divorce with the approval of the court without needing the cooperation of the other person. (Again, here is some information from the California courts.)
The harder issue, if what you need is a divorce, is that you usually need to be living the place where you are getting the divorce. Maybe if you posted whether you really need an annulment or a divorce and what state you think would be involved, you might be get better answers.
posted by metahawk at 11:53 PM on March 18, 2022 [1 favorite]