How to change framerate for 4k video?
March 17, 2022 7:12 PM Subscribe
My new toy is a 4K TV and I am loving watching TV and movies in glorious 4K. However I notice that some media has a high frame rate, probably 48fps or 60fps, while other media stays at the "standard" 24fps. How can I control the frame rate on what I see?
My goal is to watch movies with that "cinematic" look of 24fps, even when it's 4K resolution. But some videos don't want to play nice and the frame rate is high, either 48fps or 60fps. Either way, it's that weird "video" quality, where especially motion and action, camera panning, etc. has that cartoonish look and I don't like it.
My TV is an LG and it does have a setting to keep frame rate low (though it's worded a bit differently). It works with some movies but not all.
I connect my iMac to the TV via Chromecast. It's an older Chromecast so it can't actually do 4k. I use Plex to broadcast videos I have on my hard drive. (One odd quirk I noticed is that when I open Plex on my iMac, then connect to the Chromecast, it will play the video file at a higher frame rate. But if I open the Plex app on the TV and play it, the frame rate is 24fps.)
I am working on a video file of a movie on my drive, a Blu-Ray rip (that I totally ripped and have the actual Blu-Ray of natch) at 4k resolution. No matter how I try to play it on my TV, the frame rate is very high with that cartoonish look. This doesn't happen all the time, so I think the issue lies with the video file itself. Can I convert it, maybe with Handbrake, so that I retain the 4k resolution but have it play at 24fps? Btw, when I play the same file on my iMac it does exactly that, plays at 24fps, 4k resolution. But not on the TV.
Any ideas on how to
My goal is to watch movies with that "cinematic" look of 24fps, even when it's 4K resolution. But some videos don't want to play nice and the frame rate is high, either 48fps or 60fps. Either way, it's that weird "video" quality, where especially motion and action, camera panning, etc. has that cartoonish look and I don't like it.
My TV is an LG and it does have a setting to keep frame rate low (though it's worded a bit differently). It works with some movies but not all.
I connect my iMac to the TV via Chromecast. It's an older Chromecast so it can't actually do 4k. I use Plex to broadcast videos I have on my hard drive. (One odd quirk I noticed is that when I open Plex on my iMac, then connect to the Chromecast, it will play the video file at a higher frame rate. But if I open the Plex app on the TV and play it, the frame rate is 24fps.)
I am working on a video file of a movie on my drive, a Blu-Ray rip (that I totally ripped and have the actual Blu-Ray of natch) at 4k resolution. No matter how I try to play it on my TV, the frame rate is very high with that cartoonish look. This doesn't happen all the time, so I think the issue lies with the video file itself. Can I convert it, maybe with Handbrake, so that I retain the 4k resolution but have it play at 24fps? Btw, when I play the same file on my iMac it does exactly that, plays at 24fps, 4k resolution. But not on the TV.
Any ideas on how to
Best answer: I highly doubt it's anything to do with your video file.
Blu-Ray movies are all 24fps as far as I have ever seen, and there would be zero sense in someone somehow trying to rip and upscale it to 60fps using some interpolating algorithm, when the whole point in ripping a Blu-Ray is to reduce the file size, not increase it! After the fiasco that was the Hobbit movie released at HFR (48fps), virtually all (99%) of other releases remained with 24fps.
Like, I'm 99% sure your video files are 24fps. To check that, you can open them with your video player of choice on your PC, say if you use VLC just go to Tool -> Codec Information and it will show you information about the frame rate. Once that is determined we can proceed to the next step of troubleshooting...
posted by xdvesper at 7:48 PM on March 17, 2022
Blu-Ray movies are all 24fps as far as I have ever seen, and there would be zero sense in someone somehow trying to rip and upscale it to 60fps using some interpolating algorithm, when the whole point in ripping a Blu-Ray is to reduce the file size, not increase it! After the fiasco that was the Hobbit movie released at HFR (48fps), virtually all (99%) of other releases remained with 24fps.
Like, I'm 99% sure your video files are 24fps. To check that, you can open them with your video player of choice on your PC, say if you use VLC just go to Tool -> Codec Information and it will show you information about the frame rate. Once that is determined we can proceed to the next step of troubleshooting...
posted by xdvesper at 7:48 PM on March 17, 2022
Best answer: My LG TV calls frame rate interpolation "motion smoothing"... so make sure that's disabled.
You can also test the source file FPS from the command line with ffmpeg.
ffmpeg -i filename.mp4 2>&1 | grep fps --color
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:52 PM on March 17, 2022
You can also test the source file FPS from the command line with ffmpeg.
ffmpeg -i filename.mp4 2>&1 | grep fps --color
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:52 PM on March 17, 2022
Response by poster: Thanks, guys. I checked the video file in question. It's an mkv file, 3140x2860, so 4K quality. And it's 24 fps, you're right! So that means the TV is converting it, somehow, to a higher framerate. Or at least, that's what it looks like. I've been through all the menus and can't find anything about framerate, though I may have missed something. I'm not at my TV at the moment, but maybe that's where the problem lies. The strange thing is it's doing this sort of randomly: I see various shows, commercial, and this big movie file at a higher framerate, but the TV is set to counter that. I suppose it doesn't catch it all?
posted by zardoz at 7:53 PM on March 17, 2022
posted by zardoz at 7:53 PM on March 17, 2022
Yeah, check your picture settings. It may be called "motion smoothing", or something else. A lot of TVs have it turned on by default these days. It's super annoying.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:55 PM on March 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:55 PM on March 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: yeah, it sounds like motion smoothing to me. i don't have an LG but in 2019 it was called "TruMotion" in the LG menus according to this article
posted by glonous keming at 7:56 PM on March 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by glonous keming at 7:56 PM on March 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: glonus, I think that's it, TruMotion. But the odd thing is I have that turned off (at least I think I do). Sorry guys, I now realize I need to be at my TV to check on this but I'm not home!
posted by zardoz at 7:58 PM on March 17, 2022
posted by zardoz at 7:58 PM on March 17, 2022
no worries! i used to go to anime watch events with a host who never turned this off and it drove me absolutely batty. if possible, it's even weirder in anime than normal "live" tv cuz like, it's normal animation maybe on the twos or threes or whatever and all the sudden a car drives by in the background and it's 60fps just for the instant the car is passing, then it's back to normal again. super jarring.
posted by glonous keming at 8:04 PM on March 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 8:04 PM on March 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Ideas about why you're only seeing this sometimes:
(1) There are multiple settings to hit and you've only turned off some of them. The remaining active ones are doing a good job with some videos so you don't notice it, but you notice the ones they struggle with.
(2) LG pushed a firmware update that reset some settings.
(3) The tv is trying too hard to be clever and is in a mode where it's trying to decide for itself whether to turn motion interpolation on. Something in the framestream or metadata in some videos is turning it back on because the confused tv thinks it's a sporting event or something.
You might search for "avsforum yourtvmodel" to find the owner's thread on avsforum. A wretched hive of scum and villainy like all web forums but they're usually good about decoding the marketing-speak for the settings and figuring out how to get an as-accurate-as-possible picture from any given model.
If you're looking for more settings, you probably should be careful not to turn off whatever LG calls 3:2 pulldown -- this lets the tv reconstruct a 24p framestream out of a 60i framestream of a movie it's ingesting.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:09 PM on March 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
(1) There are multiple settings to hit and you've only turned off some of them. The remaining active ones are doing a good job with some videos so you don't notice it, but you notice the ones they struggle with.
(2) LG pushed a firmware update that reset some settings.
(3) The tv is trying too hard to be clever and is in a mode where it's trying to decide for itself whether to turn motion interpolation on. Something in the framestream or metadata in some videos is turning it back on because the confused tv thinks it's a sporting event or something.
You might search for "avsforum yourtvmodel" to find the owner's thread on avsforum. A wretched hive of scum and villainy like all web forums but they're usually good about decoding the marketing-speak for the settings and figuring out how to get an as-accurate-as-possible picture from any given model.
If you're looking for more settings, you probably should be careful not to turn off whatever LG calls 3:2 pulldown -- this lets the tv reconstruct a 24p framestream out of a 60i framestream of a movie it's ingesting.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:09 PM on March 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have an LG and some picture settings are per input. When you disable true motion on one input check that it's off for others too.
posted by zippy at 9:02 PM on March 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by zippy at 9:02 PM on March 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
Best answer: This is called the soap opera effect and it is really annoying. You can disable or tweak with the various display settings. I always allow it for sports and real 4K and disable for all other.
posted by gatorbiddy at 9:51 PM on March 17, 2022
posted by gatorbiddy at 9:51 PM on March 17, 2022
One other thing: my LG tv retains all these settings separately for each input. So once you get HDMI1 right, you might have to go through it again on HDMI2, etc.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:48 AM on March 18, 2022
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:48 AM on March 18, 2022
Response by poster: Ok, I've narrowed it down but the problem persists. I am using the Plex app in my TV, which is connected to my iMac via Chromecast. I have four or five movies and when I play them, I do not get the soap opera effect--they look fine. But the one movie in question, that's in 4k quality, does display the high framerate. I found the TruMotion setting and turned it off, but it still happens. So it's that one file. Because it's 4k the TV is treating it differently, or like GCU says maybe it's metadata. I wonder if I upgrade to a 4k Chromecast or Apple TV if this will go away.
posted by zardoz at 2:15 PM on March 18, 2022
posted by zardoz at 2:15 PM on March 18, 2022
Any chance the movie itself is at a higher frame rate? A very small number of films have been released in recent years at high frame rates -- the Hobbit movies and some of Ang Lee's films are the ones I can recall.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:14 PM on March 18, 2022
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:14 PM on March 18, 2022
Response by poster: Ok, no use beating around the bush. The movie is Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring. The Extended Version. 4k quality. I checked the frame rate, at at least according to VLC it's 24fps. And indeed playing it on my iMac it plays at 24fps, or at least non-soap opera effect. But that won't work on the TV. It's both something unique about this mkv file and/or the TV settings...I'm still hunting around with that. I know Peter Jackson made the Hobbit movies with a high frame rate but that shouldn't be a factor here, right? Worth noting that the other movies that don't exhibit the high frame rate are all 1080p. Not sure if that matters but it's the only difference I can see.
posted by zardoz at 5:20 PM on March 18, 2022
posted by zardoz at 5:20 PM on March 18, 2022
One odd quirk I noticed is that when I open Plex on my iMac, then connect to the Chromecast, it will play the video file at a higher frame rate. But if I open the Plex app on the TV and play it, the frame rate is 24fps.
Have you checked the settings on the plex app, chromecast device, and plex on your imac? Especially have you checked the transcoding settings? If the chromecast can't do 4k, then probably your imac is transcoding down to 1080p, and it might be set to transcode to 1080p60.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:35 AM on March 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Have you checked the settings on the plex app, chromecast device, and plex on your imac? Especially have you checked the transcoding settings? If the chromecast can't do 4k, then probably your imac is transcoding down to 1080p, and it might be set to transcode to 1080p60.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:35 AM on March 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Ok, problem solved! I noticed when I played the video there was a tiny window that popped up on the screen labeled HDR. Turns out I needed to play the video, then while it's playing, go into the picture settings, turn off TruMotion, etc. So the settings can't be changed before playing the movie. Which is weird. But in then end it seems it will work out.
posted by zardoz at 9:40 PM on March 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 9:40 PM on March 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Wow, that's annoying! Glad you figured it out.
My 4K TV turns on motion smoothing automatically every time I turn on the TV, so I have to turn it off manually before I watch anything. It's such a curse. I don't know why TV manufacturers seem determined to force this on everyone.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:13 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
My 4K TV turns on motion smoothing automatically every time I turn on the TV, so I have to turn it off manually before I watch anything. It's such a curse. I don't know why TV manufacturers seem determined to force this on everyone.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 2:13 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
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Perhaps the issue is that some of your files are actually 50fps and not 60fps? Some TVs can't/won't inverse telecine a 50fps source or will only do it if they are receiving a 50Hz input.
To be clear, there are a few different things at play here. There is the source file, which will have x frames per second. Then there is the HDMI refresh rate, which could be 24hz or 50hz or 60hz or 120hz, and then there is the refresh rate of the TV itself. Some are fixed at 60hz, some can do 24hz, some will do 120hz or 240hz.
More detail about what exactly your TV can do might help shed light on the situation.
posted by wierdo at 7:26 PM on March 17, 2022