Where have national borders changed in recent(ish) years?
March 9, 2022 4:04 AM Subscribe
I have a wall-map in my bathroom. In the XKCD dating method, I could time-bracket it as having one Germany, but also only one Sudan. What else is wrong on it?
What other inaccuracies in current national borders would exist on this map? Two I can already think of are Russia's expansion at the expense of Ukraine (obviously), and Turkey enlarging itself at the expense of Syria. Also I'd guess that Yemen has shrunk a bit to the benefit of Saudi Arabia (though I'm not sure taking territory is the aim there).
What other inaccuracies in current national borders would exist on this map? Two I can already think of are Russia's expansion at the expense of Ukraine (obviously), and Turkey enlarging itself at the expense of Syria. Also I'd guess that Yemen has shrunk a bit to the benefit of Saudi Arabia (though I'm not sure taking territory is the aim there).
Does Yugoslavia still exist? It effectively ceased to exist around 1992 and the war didn't end until 1995.
Is East Timor independent? It was part of Indonesia until 2002.
posted by Johnny Assay at 4:25 AM on March 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is East Timor independent? It was part of Indonesia until 2002.
posted by Johnny Assay at 4:25 AM on March 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Is Eritrea independent? It became independent from Ethiopia in 1993.
Are the Czech Republic and Slovakia two separate countries? That happened in 1993 as well.
Is Palau still a US possession? It became independent in 1994.
Is Montenegro a separate country from Serbia? They split up in 2006.
posted by Johnny Assay at 4:33 AM on March 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Are the Czech Republic and Slovakia two separate countries? That happened in 1993 as well.
Is Palau still a US possession? It became independent in 1994.
Is Montenegro a separate country from Serbia? They split up in 2006.
posted by Johnny Assay at 4:33 AM on March 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
The XKCD dating method also mentions Hong Kong (part of the UK until 1997).
Things like Russia invading Crimea etc. are not always shown on the maps, or are shown as "disputed boundaries".
posted by scorbet at 4:47 AM on March 9, 2022
Things like Russia invading Crimea etc. are not always shown on the maps, or are shown as "disputed boundaries".
posted by scorbet at 4:47 AM on March 9, 2022
There were so many changes in the 1990s and early 2000s when it felt like a map was out of date after a year, but I feel like there's been fewer changes lately. I'd agree with scorbet, above, that disputed borders might not show up on maps. (Depending of course on where that map was made - I've heard that places like Bolivia will highlight their lost territories in a way that you wouldn't see on a map made in Canada or the US).
I used this page from our friends at wikipedia when I was trying to date a globe (the globe was made in the early 1970s) but looking around this morning I noticed this page has much more detail than just international borders.
posted by philfromhavelock at 4:54 AM on March 9, 2022
I used this page from our friends at wikipedia when I was trying to date a globe (the globe was made in the early 1970s) but looking around this morning I noticed this page has much more detail than just international borders.
posted by philfromhavelock at 4:54 AM on March 9, 2022
Oh, actually "One Germany and one Sudan" might also be 1871-1945, but I assure you the map is not that old
If you want to be certain, Germany would have been significantly larger at that point, and included Prussia. (I think that "Russia" would have been the USSR for most of it too.)
The USSR was around until 1991 too, so that's another dating point.
posted by scorbet at 4:56 AM on March 9, 2022
If you want to be certain, Germany would have been significantly larger at that point, and included Prussia. (I think that "Russia" would have been the USSR for most of it too.)
The USSR was around until 1991 too, so that's another dating point.
posted by scorbet at 4:56 AM on March 9, 2022
Response by poster: My (far smarter) partner has pointed out that the map is actually dated 2004 (so, yes to Timor Leste, no to Yugoslavia or Montenegro).
Obviously dating the map is important to the question, but I'm more after knowing where it is 'wrong'. My apologies for vagueness (in my defence, the date is too small for me to read).
posted by pompomtom at 5:02 AM on March 9, 2022
Obviously dating the map is important to the question, but I'm more after knowing where it is 'wrong'. My apologies for vagueness (in my defence, the date is too small for me to read).
posted by pompomtom at 5:02 AM on March 9, 2022
Not a political change, but a few of the smaller Pacific Islands have disappeared due to climate change.
posted by Mchelly at 5:03 AM on March 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 5:03 AM on March 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: but I'm more after knowing where it is 'wrong'.
eSwatini would still be called Swaziland (2018). North Macedonia would be Macedonia. (2019).
Kosovo wouldn't be on it. (Declared independence in 2008.)
posted by scorbet at 5:15 AM on March 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
eSwatini would still be called Swaziland (2018). North Macedonia would be Macedonia. (2019).
Kosovo wouldn't be on it. (Declared independence in 2008.)
posted by scorbet at 5:15 AM on March 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: (oh, and yes to Montenegro, as was suggested!)
posted by pompomtom at 5:16 AM on March 9, 2022
posted by pompomtom at 5:16 AM on March 9, 2022
Not a political change, but a few of the smaller Pacific Islands have disappeared due to climate change.
That's definitely a political change.
posted by Tom-B at 5:42 AM on March 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
That's definitely a political change.
posted by Tom-B at 5:42 AM on March 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
a few of the smaller Pacific Islands have disappeared due to climate change.
Is New Zealand on your map? It's often missing . . . to lose one island may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.
posted by BobTheScientist at 5:53 AM on March 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Is New Zealand on your map? It's often missing . . . to lose one island may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.
posted by BobTheScientist at 5:53 AM on March 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's a little too small to appear on a world map, but The Tim Traveler has a video about an island in a river separating France and Spain which switches countries depending on what time of year it is.
Six months of the year the border goes on one side of the island, and then it moves to the other side for the remaining six months. Depending on the time of year, the island is in either France or Spain. This has been happening since the 1700s, so given a detailed enough world map you could in theory date it to within six months.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:10 AM on March 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Six months of the year the border goes on one side of the island, and then it moves to the other side for the remaining six months. Depending on the time of year, the island is in either France or Spain. This has been happening since the 1700s, so given a detailed enough world map you could in theory date it to within six months.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:10 AM on March 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
1. The map would reflect not only the time but the place that it was created in.
2. The borders in Kashmir between India, Pakistan, and China keep changing.
posted by redlines at 7:17 AM on March 9, 2022
2. The borders in Kashmir between India, Pakistan, and China keep changing.
posted by redlines at 7:17 AM on March 9, 2022
Best answer: Something that's not represented in the XKCD comic is how land reclamation has changed the shape of the Netherlands. For example, if your map doesn't have a Flevoland, it's pre-1942. If it has a Noordoostpolder but no Flevopolder, it's between 1942 and 1957 or 1968 (depending on its level of detail). If it shows the Maasvlakte, it's from after the 1960s; if it shows Maasvlakte 2, it's post-2013 (again, depending on its level of detail).
posted by neushoorn at 7:42 AM on March 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by neushoorn at 7:42 AM on March 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Hmm, if the map is detailed enough to have cities on it...
Barrow, AK officially changed to Utqiaġvik, AK at the end of 2016. My big bathroom map has Barrow on it because A) the map is apparently older than 2016 and I should get a new bathroom map; and B) I suppose it is an 'extreme point' city and although it's quite small, most people know that it exists.
posted by Gray Duck at 8:32 AM on March 9, 2022
Barrow, AK officially changed to Utqiaġvik, AK at the end of 2016. My big bathroom map has Barrow on it because A) the map is apparently older than 2016 and I should get a new bathroom map; and B) I suppose it is an 'extreme point' city and although it's quite small, most people know that it exists.
posted by Gray Duck at 8:32 AM on March 9, 2022
Best answer: If it has nation capitals, Kazakhstan offers several caesuras - before December 1997 the capital was Almaty, then it was moved to Akmolinsk/Akmola, which was renamed Astana in May 1998 and again renamed Nursultan in 2019.
The shape of Georgia is another clue, especially on maps made in Russia, Venezuela and Syria - from 2008 they recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent, leaving Georgia as a sort of Mickey Mouse ears instead of a west-facing brachiosaurus. Some European maps indicate their uncertain state as Georgia-but-shaded-different, in which case just the brachiosaurus head and neck (Abkhazia) means 1992 to 2008, while both chunks shaded is post 2008.
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posted by I claim sanctuary at 10:16 AM on March 9, 2022
The shape of Georgia is another clue, especially on maps made in Russia, Venezuela and Syria - from 2008 they recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent, leaving Georgia as a sort of Mickey Mouse ears instead of a west-facing brachiosaurus. Some European maps indicate their uncertain state as Georgia-but-shaded-different, in which case just the brachiosaurus head and neck (Abkhazia) means 1992 to 2008, while both chunks shaded is post 2008.
.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 10:16 AM on March 9, 2022
Best answer: Knew I'd forgotten one earlier - Cabo Verde was more usually called Cape Verde in English until 2013.
posted by scorbet at 11:00 AM on March 9, 2022
posted by scorbet at 11:00 AM on March 9, 2022
Best answer: Part of the India / Bangladesh border looked like Swiss cheese until everything was simplified in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Bangladesh_enclaves
posted by aspersioncast at 9:58 PM on March 10, 2022
posted by aspersioncast at 9:58 PM on March 10, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by pompomtom at 4:16 AM on March 9, 2022