Images, allusions illustrating preparing for a fall?
March 5, 2022 2:10 PM Subscribe
What is a well known and apt fable/myth/literary/historical episode for capturing or evoking the following: the realization and need for someone or something once powerful, but now fading, to make arrangements or secure safety to prevent things from going really far south?
My grandfather used to say "Don’t kick people on your way up; you’ll meet them again on your way down."
posted by clew at 2:48 PM on March 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by clew at 2:48 PM on March 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
The King and I? At the end of the movie, he tries to speak to his son, then dies.
posted by Melismata at 3:19 PM on March 5, 2022
posted by Melismata at 3:19 PM on March 5, 2022
Marie Antoinette trying to flee back to Austria in disguise but getting caught?
posted by bleep at 4:16 PM on March 5, 2022
posted by bleep at 4:16 PM on March 5, 2022
Try searching TV tropes (which also covers literature and movies) using the term legacy (but dynasty might be better?) which has a lot of subcategories. Some that might fit are Harry Potter (Dumbledore training Harry), Star Wars (Yoda training Luke) and The Terminator (Linda Hamilton as the mom training her son). They don't get into Shakespeare but maybe Lear fits as well.
There's also a lot of "hiding the savior away until a better time" literature that might maybe could fit under this as well.
Countries with more of a dynastic approach may have real life political examples. Choosing an heir is highly fraught I understand, see the current issue of whether Charles or William should succeed Queen Elizabeth.
The business world is full of stories of great leaders who had to choose successors or risk their "legacy" being lost: Steve Jobs, the Kennedys (which also fits politically?). Many of the USA ultra-rich (the Gettys, Carnegies, etc) started out as business dynasties which ended due to lack of appropriate successors though the money stayed on.
posted by beaning at 4:17 PM on March 5, 2022
There's also a lot of "hiding the savior away until a better time" literature that might maybe could fit under this as well.
Countries with more of a dynastic approach may have real life political examples. Choosing an heir is highly fraught I understand, see the current issue of whether Charles or William should succeed Queen Elizabeth.
The business world is full of stories of great leaders who had to choose successors or risk their "legacy" being lost: Steve Jobs, the Kennedys (which also fits politically?). Many of the USA ultra-rich (the Gettys, Carnegies, etc) started out as business dynasties which ended due to lack of appropriate successors though the money stayed on.
posted by beaning at 4:17 PM on March 5, 2022
clarification - are you looking for stories where the hero goes to the putatively powerful authority looking for help in an emergency, but it turns out the once-powerful character is no longer powerful enough to do anything?
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:30 PM on March 5, 2022
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:30 PM on March 5, 2022
Best answer: The mortally wounded King Arthur having his sword Excalibur thrown into a lake. I recall the idea was, it could someday be retrieved by some future savior of Britain.
posted by JonJacky at 5:20 PM on March 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by JonJacky at 5:20 PM on March 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
This happens in the business world all the time. A prosperous company is challenged by a competitor, or a new technology renders their offerings obsolete. A couple of examples:
The Wendy's hamburger chain took its eyes off the ball and began tom slip. The founder, Dave Thomas, instituted a program to focus on basic business and got them back on track.
IBM had two huge problems at the same time. Too much competition for the PC business meant they couldn't make a profit in that business, and the new small but powerful computers reduced the demand for mainframes. They dropped the PC business and became a consulting business.
GE is going through the process now. They have sold off most of their small lines of business to focus on a few big and profitable ones.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:21 PM on March 5, 2022
The Wendy's hamburger chain took its eyes off the ball and began tom slip. The founder, Dave Thomas, instituted a program to focus on basic business and got them back on track.
IBM had two huge problems at the same time. Too much competition for the PC business meant they couldn't make a profit in that business, and the new small but powerful computers reduced the demand for mainframes. They dropped the PC business and became a consulting business.
GE is going through the process now. They have sold off most of their small lines of business to focus on a few big and profitable ones.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:21 PM on March 5, 2022
Pro athletes change their game as they get older. A common example is the power pitcher with the unhittable fastball who turns into a curveball pitcher when his velocity diminshes.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:26 PM on March 5, 2022
posted by SemiSalt at 5:26 PM on March 5, 2022
Theoden, king of the Rohirrim, who has fallen into decrepitude (well, pushed into decrepitude), but arises in the nick of time to support the battle against Mordor in The Lord of the Rings. The same thing with the rising of the Ents.
posted by angiep at 6:50 PM on March 5, 2022
posted by angiep at 6:50 PM on March 5, 2022
I'm also confused by the question. My read on it is that a civilization is going sideways and they need to bring a leader/ deity out of retirement to help.
Is that it?
If so, I may have the perfect example for you. During the Magical Battle for Britian with Dion Fortune and her fellow Pagans cast spells to protect Britain's coast, they attemped to bring back King Arthur so he could fight hitler.
tyeped with smeary contacts)
posted by mermaidcafe at 7:43 PM on March 5, 2022
Is that it?
If so, I may have the perfect example for you. During the Magical Battle for Britian with Dion Fortune and her fellow Pagans cast spells to protect Britain's coast, they attemped to bring back King Arthur so he could fight hitler.
tyeped with smeary contacts)
posted by mermaidcafe at 7:43 PM on March 5, 2022
Response by poster: Sorry for lack of clarity. To respond to question above, want to evoke idea of a person/regime/actor taking steps to prevent its own fall from being severe -- for its own sake, its successors, etc. The example given of throwing Excalibur into the lake to preserve it is along the right lines. Thanks to all!
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 11:10 PM on March 5, 2022
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 11:10 PM on March 5, 2022
Azimov's Foundation trilogy is about seeding a couple of pods at opposite ends of the galaxy to preserve the civilization and knowledge of the declining empire. They are intended to keep quiet through the Dark Ages and minimize the length of the inter-imperium to 1,000 years.
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:41 AM on March 6, 2022
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:41 AM on March 6, 2022
I've been reading the answers with great interest, because I think it's actually quite difficult to find stories about managing decline. At first glance, it just doesn't seem like an attractive subject matter. Most audiences can be a bit black and white about it - they either want to see the protagonist triumph or go out in a blaze of glory. Who cares about the slog and sorrow of the aftermath?
Hiding away the heir, the sword, and other insignia, is a matter of prologues and backstories, when the actual story is about retaking the kingdom and restoring former glory. If that's what you're looking for, fantasy might be the most promising genre. This is the sowing-the-seeds-of-a-comeback part of managing decline and it's all about keeping the myth alive.
It doesn't teach us much about what you can do to actually soften the fall and minimize the damage for the people in your care in the immediate aftermath of the defeat, though. Which is a pity, because I think we all desperately needs some lessons about managing decline, looking at the state of current affairs. For this, you would have to devote a larger part of the story to the actual decline.
But there's another problem with finding stories about managing decline - in order to manage it, you have to spot it before it's too late for any sort of management. And this just doesn't happen that often, because it's very natural and deeply human to be in denial about decline. So stories which are actually about decline are usually stories about delusion or resignation, when the decline seems unamangeable already (eg. one of my favourites "House of Liars", by Elsa Morante - rapid decline, 100% delusion, zero management, or "Buddenbrooks" by Thomas Mann - slow decline, varying degrees of delusion, worsening management, mostly resignation).
If you want a pragmatic, clear-eyed take on managing decline, you might be best advised to look for novel with strong heroine. Like "Kristin Lavransdatter". I always recommend Kristin Lavransdatter on ask mefi, because I haven't actually read that many novels lately, so my repertoire is woefully limited. But I do think it really fits the bill here.
Kristin starts out as a daughter of a minor noble in medieval Norway (minor in the sense that he seems content with a relative small sphere of influence; he's well-off and well-respected in his parish). She seemingly marries up - someone from a higher-status branch of nobility closer to the king. But her husband has political ambitions and plots against the king, which - Spoiler alert - fails in the most pathetic way, because Kristin's husband is the platonic ideal of a fuckboy. Kristin has to scramble to use all her connections to save her husband's neck, but that's pretty much all she can save with regard to his estate.
They have to move back to the farm Kristin inherits from her Dad. It's enough for Kristin to still be somewhat of a lady with servants, but it's not enough to provide good prospects for her sons. There's not enough land for each of them to inherit something and they can't get positions at court, so they have to become monks and soldiers and mostly can't marry. When the son who will inherit the farm falls in love with a merchant's daughter, even he won't be wealthy enough to get her parents' approval, so the young lovers have to elope. Kristin isn't exactly thrilled about it, but she can't say much because she also married her own fuckboy husband against her parents' wishes.
The young bride is a different calibre from Kristin - they clash when it comes to the treatment of beggars and pilgrims regularly showing up at the farm. Kristin has been taught generosity towards beggars and pilgrims is a matter of course, a requirement of Christian charity and Noblesse oblige. But they aren't that noble any more..... which the young woman accepts, and Kristin essentially accepts too. She realizes that their current circumstances require a different sort of management, and rather than betray her values, makes way for the other woman, leaves the farm and becomes a nun. You do get the sense that son and new bride are sufficiently well-matched actually and will make their way in life.
Much of the later parts of the triology are concerend with Kristin fretting about her sons' dwindling prospects, trying to make the best of their reduced circumstances and picking up the pieces of her husbands' ill-advised stunts. It's a great story about dealing with the blows of fate and trying to find love and grace and beauty in spite of everything.
posted by sohalt at 1:22 AM on March 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hiding away the heir, the sword, and other insignia, is a matter of prologues and backstories, when the actual story is about retaking the kingdom and restoring former glory. If that's what you're looking for, fantasy might be the most promising genre. This is the sowing-the-seeds-of-a-comeback part of managing decline and it's all about keeping the myth alive.
It doesn't teach us much about what you can do to actually soften the fall and minimize the damage for the people in your care in the immediate aftermath of the defeat, though. Which is a pity, because I think we all desperately needs some lessons about managing decline, looking at the state of current affairs. For this, you would have to devote a larger part of the story to the actual decline.
But there's another problem with finding stories about managing decline - in order to manage it, you have to spot it before it's too late for any sort of management. And this just doesn't happen that often, because it's very natural and deeply human to be in denial about decline. So stories which are actually about decline are usually stories about delusion or resignation, when the decline seems unamangeable already (eg. one of my favourites "House of Liars", by Elsa Morante - rapid decline, 100% delusion, zero management, or "Buddenbrooks" by Thomas Mann - slow decline, varying degrees of delusion, worsening management, mostly resignation).
If you want a pragmatic, clear-eyed take on managing decline, you might be best advised to look for novel with strong heroine. Like "Kristin Lavransdatter". I always recommend Kristin Lavransdatter on ask mefi, because I haven't actually read that many novels lately, so my repertoire is woefully limited. But I do think it really fits the bill here.
Kristin starts out as a daughter of a minor noble in medieval Norway (minor in the sense that he seems content with a relative small sphere of influence; he's well-off and well-respected in his parish). She seemingly marries up - someone from a higher-status branch of nobility closer to the king. But her husband has political ambitions and plots against the king, which - Spoiler alert - fails in the most pathetic way, because Kristin's husband is the platonic ideal of a fuckboy. Kristin has to scramble to use all her connections to save her husband's neck, but that's pretty much all she can save with regard to his estate.
They have to move back to the farm Kristin inherits from her Dad. It's enough for Kristin to still be somewhat of a lady with servants, but it's not enough to provide good prospects for her sons. There's not enough land for each of them to inherit something and they can't get positions at court, so they have to become monks and soldiers and mostly can't marry. When the son who will inherit the farm falls in love with a merchant's daughter, even he won't be wealthy enough to get her parents' approval, so the young lovers have to elope. Kristin isn't exactly thrilled about it, but she can't say much because she also married her own fuckboy husband against her parents' wishes.
The young bride is a different calibre from Kristin - they clash when it comes to the treatment of beggars and pilgrims regularly showing up at the farm. Kristin has been taught generosity towards beggars and pilgrims is a matter of course, a requirement of Christian charity and Noblesse oblige. But they aren't that noble any more..... which the young woman accepts, and Kristin essentially accepts too. She realizes that their current circumstances require a different sort of management, and rather than betray her values, makes way for the other woman, leaves the farm and becomes a nun. You do get the sense that son and new bride are sufficiently well-matched actually and will make their way in life.
Much of the later parts of the triology are concerend with Kristin fretting about her sons' dwindling prospects, trying to make the best of their reduced circumstances and picking up the pieces of her husbands' ill-advised stunts. It's a great story about dealing with the blows of fate and trying to find love and grace and beauty in spite of everything.
posted by sohalt at 1:22 AM on March 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
God Emperor of Dune - number 4 of the original series of 6 - substantially fits this template, when set in light of the 2 novels which follow it.
posted by protorp at 12:20 PM on March 6, 2022
posted by protorp at 12:20 PM on March 6, 2022
This is a video game, so maybe not well known enough for your purposes, but the backstory of Horizon: Zero Dawn is 100% "something once powerful, but now fading, [making] arrangements or secure safety to prevent things from going really far south."
The short version: Humankind is facing destruction from a self-replicating, biomass-devouring plague of berserk military robots. Scientists figure out a way to shut down the robots, but breaking the encryption of the robots will take longer than life on earth has left. So one scientist creates Project Zero Dawn, a contingency plan to repair, replenish, and repopulate the earth once it's safe to do so.
Long version here.
posted by ejs at 1:30 PM on March 6, 2022
The short version: Humankind is facing destruction from a self-replicating, biomass-devouring plague of berserk military robots. Scientists figure out a way to shut down the robots, but breaking the encryption of the robots will take longer than life on earth has left. So one scientist creates Project Zero Dawn, a contingency plan to repair, replenish, and repopulate the earth once it's safe to do so.
Long version here.
posted by ejs at 1:30 PM on March 6, 2022
Theoden, king of the Rohirrim, who has fallen into decrepitude (well, pushed into decrepitude), but arises in the nick of time to support the battle against Mordor in The Lord of the Rings.
You could argue that the powers Sauron put into his rings when he made them is kind of applicable to the clarified question, though I guess it doesn't count because he wasn't planning for his own initial downfall in the pre-LotR world.
posted by clawsoon at 10:33 AM on March 7, 2022
You could argue that the powers Sauron put into his rings when he made them is kind of applicable to the clarified question, though I guess it doesn't count because he wasn't planning for his own initial downfall in the pre-LotR world.
posted by clawsoon at 10:33 AM on March 7, 2022
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Caveat ruinam
Nam sub axe legimus
Hecubam reginam
From Goliardic poetry, most famous for being part of Orff's Carmina Burana. "King at the summit, let him beware ruin, for underneath the [wheel] axle is written, Hecuba the queen."
"Wheel of fortune" isn't just a game show -- it's a whole motif.
posted by humbug at 2:41 PM on March 5, 2022 [4 favorites]