#FUPayMe, Poetry Edition
February 17, 2022 5:05 PM Subscribe
I'm trying to put together hard numbers for a high-visibility project that will involve commissioning a variety of local poets to write original pieces for performance rather than publication. As such, I have no sense of a competitive rate to pay each writer for their work.
These will be poets with a presence on the local scene, i.e., not just random folks from the general public. They already have published work -- some more extensive than others, but each is far enough along to command a proper rate. Let's also assume, in a best-case scenario, that this will be a "favored nations" deal, so all will be paid equitably.
I have no parameters or conditions on the length or form of the work. They will retain all rights in perpetuity, with no constraints on their ability to print, monetize, resell, or otherwise exploit the work outside the scope of the project. Aside from the hope that my concept will appeal to these writers anyway, I want it to be entirely in their favor to participate.
I should stress again that these poems will be performed and/or recorded as their primary means of transmission. There is no concept of "circulation" as there would be at a print journal. I've seen talk of being paid in print copies in prior related AskMes, but this is a more ephemeral idea. Not sure how, or if, that spikes the question.
Anyway, I don't know what a poet could expect for a piece to be accepted in, say, Granta or Tin House (RIP) or AGNI, or whoever the high-paying poetry folks are nowadays. I'd appreciate any pointers to current data that I could draw upon for a loose preliminary budget. Thanks!
These will be poets with a presence on the local scene, i.e., not just random folks from the general public. They already have published work -- some more extensive than others, but each is far enough along to command a proper rate. Let's also assume, in a best-case scenario, that this will be a "favored nations" deal, so all will be paid equitably.
I have no parameters or conditions on the length or form of the work. They will retain all rights in perpetuity, with no constraints on their ability to print, monetize, resell, or otherwise exploit the work outside the scope of the project. Aside from the hope that my concept will appeal to these writers anyway, I want it to be entirely in their favor to participate.
I should stress again that these poems will be performed and/or recorded as their primary means of transmission. There is no concept of "circulation" as there would be at a print journal. I've seen talk of being paid in print copies in prior related AskMes, but this is a more ephemeral idea. Not sure how, or if, that spikes the question.
Anyway, I don't know what a poet could expect for a piece to be accepted in, say, Granta or Tin House (RIP) or AGNI, or whoever the high-paying poetry folks are nowadays. I'd appreciate any pointers to current data that I could draw upon for a loose preliminary budget. Thanks!
I did a series (with other artists) with a local pastor, and he paid us $80 per performance. He'd gotten a grant, and it's possible he just wanted to split it up evenly. I did a similar show and paid each performer $40, because it was what I had.
Paying is good! So many people seem to want you to do it for the exposure!
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 9:34 PM on February 17, 2022
Paying is good! So many people seem to want you to do it for the exposure!
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 9:34 PM on February 17, 2022
I work in theatre, and this sounds very much like the license agreements we sign to perform the work of an established playwright, for a limited time, at a certain venue, with no future rights or ownership.
The money terms of the contract are usually:
Advance, a sum of money to be paid with the signed contract to make the deal real.
Guarantee, a minimum payment to the author for each week of performance no matter how the show sells.
Royalty, a percentage of all ticket income paid to the author, anywhere from 8 to 12%.
A sample agreement from the Dramatists Guild can be found here, 90% of this is going to be more than you need for the situation, but you can what is useful. There is lots of language about the producer not getting any ownership of the work despite paying for use.
Dramatists Guild Model Contracts
posted by sol at 4:11 AM on February 18, 2022
The money terms of the contract are usually:
Advance, a sum of money to be paid with the signed contract to make the deal real.
Guarantee, a minimum payment to the author for each week of performance no matter how the show sells.
Royalty, a percentage of all ticket income paid to the author, anywhere from 8 to 12%.
A sample agreement from the Dramatists Guild can be found here, 90% of this is going to be more than you need for the situation, but you can what is useful. There is lots of language about the producer not getting any ownership of the work despite paying for use.
Dramatists Guild Model Contracts
posted by sol at 4:11 AM on February 18, 2022
I can't comment on what you should pay, but for point of comparison this web page provides rates for published poetry from a bunch of publications. It is typically quite low, according to this list, which is consistent with my understanding on the matter.
posted by reren at 8:28 AM on February 18, 2022
posted by reren at 8:28 AM on February 18, 2022
Poetry is rarely remunerative when it comes to publication, particularly publication of individual poems in literary journals. Poets who earn money off their work typically do so via grants, fellowships, and prizes, which are awarded on the basis of past successful work or future promise — but rarely individual poems. (Once a poet is pretty successful, has reviews of their work in the New York Times, for example, they probably also earn some money from giving readings at larger institutions, occasional masterclasses, being asked to jury large prizes, etc. That said these, like teaching in MFA programs, these opportunities become possible through recognition of their work but, with the semi-exception of readings, aren't specifically for that work.) If you want to pay people well, and not just echo the laughably small amounts that all-volunteer run literary magazines tend to offer as a token of recognition, you should stop thinking about fees via a publication model a la lit mags and instead offer honoraria like you would for a performance.
For projects somewhat akin to this I've been paid amounts ranging from $0 to $500, and since you say this is a high visibility project with resources, I would strongly encourage you to fall on the high end of the scale — particularly if these poets and their work will be the centerpiece of this performance, and particularly if you're asking on behalf of a an organization that receives grant funding for public programming, or requires a ticket purchase to attend.
posted by knucklebones at 10:15 AM on February 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
For projects somewhat akin to this I've been paid amounts ranging from $0 to $500, and since you say this is a high visibility project with resources, I would strongly encourage you to fall on the high end of the scale — particularly if these poets and their work will be the centerpiece of this performance, and particularly if you're asking on behalf of a an organization that receives grant funding for public programming, or requires a ticket purchase to attend.
posted by knucklebones at 10:15 AM on February 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
As a point of reference, here's what Poetry Magazine pays:
For text poems, we pay $10/line with a minimum honorarium of $300 per poem. For visual poems, audio poems, and video poems, we pay $300 per poem. If a piece is published in multiple formats, such as print and video, we pay for each format.
posted by carrienation at 1:24 PM on February 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
For text poems, we pay $10/line with a minimum honorarium of $300 per poem. For visual poems, audio poems, and video poems, we pay $300 per poem. If a piece is published in multiple formats, such as print and video, we pay for each format.
posted by carrienation at 1:24 PM on February 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
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Rattle's website says they pay $200 for print publication and $100 for online.
I've had a few poems published in journals that paid, and it's always been a flat fee of $50 per poem.
posted by FencingGal at 8:13 PM on February 17, 2022 [2 favorites]