How to cope with non-responses from a number of friends simultaneously?
October 7, 2021 6:24 AM Subscribe
Looking for advice on how to cope with non-responses from a pretty large number of friends at the same time, and how to best reframe/move forward.
I have pretty intense fears of abandonment, and have an anxious attachment style, which I completely acknowledge.
Lately, I have noticed that a number of friends has not been responding to my texts; both casual "how are you doing?" texts and texts that initiate plans to get together. Their non-responses are making me feel icky and anxious, and I feel hesitant to follow up, out of fear of seeming annoying or needy, but their complete zero response is making me really wonder what's going on, if it's me or if I'm doing something wrong, or what.
Those three are the main people I'm concerned about; there are some others, but not major enough to be included here. Real names not used, obviously.
Sam: Sam is normally very conspicuous and responsive, and have stated to me many times that they hate to leave people hanging on plans, etc. We have talked about going to a pumpkin patch this weekend, and the other day, Sam asked if they could ask a friend to join. Sure, no problem. After that, nothing at all, crickets. Yesterday, I let Sam know a friend of mine might join, and to let me know what they thought of the place I had chosen. No response, nothing. Saturday is nearing, and I'm anxious that Sam had ghosted me. They were a bit non-responsive the last few weeks, too, so that might be a pattern. It could be lethargy, which Sam has admitted to previously, but this is odd behavior even for Sam, especially considering the time-sensitive nature of our tentative plans.
Ethel: Ethel, a former co-worker and close friend of mine, tends to get together with me maybe every 2-3 weeks, having dinner and catching up. I went on vacation two weekends ago, had a good time, and sent Ethel some pictures. No response. I then shared my new niece announcement last week, sharing a picture of my new niece. Still no response. Earlier this week, I asked if they wanted to get together and catch up for dinner. Still nothing. This is not normal for Ethel. Sometimes Ethel will take a while or not respond, but will respond eventually, but this takes the cake for no response.
Fred: Fred, a good friend of mine, came with their partner this summer to swim at my pool. We had an amazing, deep conversation, and had a truly great time. After that, Fred went silent. No responses, nothing. I did text Fred a few times, of course leaving plenty of time in between, mainly check-in texts, nothing. The last time we texted was in July. Their partner did respond to my texts, though, and all seemed fine so far. Just found it very odd.
Those are the key three people whose non-responses are bothering me the most, mostly because it's somewhat out of character for them. I feel stuck in between a rock and hard place, because I don't want to come across as annoying or needy, but I really need to know if they're mad at me, or if they just need space, or if they're going through their own hard times. I recognize and acknowledge I can't control other people or their responses, but this is really, really, really hard. I'm also still recovering from a bad friend breakup, so my insecurities, combined with those three people and others, are making me feel like I'm a bad person or a bad friend, or if I'm doing something wrong.
Should I also share my fears of being ghosted with them/friends in general, so they can be aware and try to 'align' with my communication style? (ie, what works for me would be to acknowledge my text, something like "I see your question/text, I'll get back to you when I can", or "I'm busy right now, I'll get back to you later" or SOMETHING, rather than absolutely no response)
I would really love insight and advice on how to deal with this, especially considering my anxious attachment style, and how I can get clarification or a reason why they have went silent. One of my worst fears is being ghosted, and this is triggering a lot of that in me, especially after my friend breakup, making me feel like a bad person and that something is wrong with me, but rationally I know it's not.
Thank you.
I have pretty intense fears of abandonment, and have an anxious attachment style, which I completely acknowledge.
Lately, I have noticed that a number of friends has not been responding to my texts; both casual "how are you doing?" texts and texts that initiate plans to get together. Their non-responses are making me feel icky and anxious, and I feel hesitant to follow up, out of fear of seeming annoying or needy, but their complete zero response is making me really wonder what's going on, if it's me or if I'm doing something wrong, or what.
Those three are the main people I'm concerned about; there are some others, but not major enough to be included here. Real names not used, obviously.
Sam: Sam is normally very conspicuous and responsive, and have stated to me many times that they hate to leave people hanging on plans, etc. We have talked about going to a pumpkin patch this weekend, and the other day, Sam asked if they could ask a friend to join. Sure, no problem. After that, nothing at all, crickets. Yesterday, I let Sam know a friend of mine might join, and to let me know what they thought of the place I had chosen. No response, nothing. Saturday is nearing, and I'm anxious that Sam had ghosted me. They were a bit non-responsive the last few weeks, too, so that might be a pattern. It could be lethargy, which Sam has admitted to previously, but this is odd behavior even for Sam, especially considering the time-sensitive nature of our tentative plans.
Ethel: Ethel, a former co-worker and close friend of mine, tends to get together with me maybe every 2-3 weeks, having dinner and catching up. I went on vacation two weekends ago, had a good time, and sent Ethel some pictures. No response. I then shared my new niece announcement last week, sharing a picture of my new niece. Still no response. Earlier this week, I asked if they wanted to get together and catch up for dinner. Still nothing. This is not normal for Ethel. Sometimes Ethel will take a while or not respond, but will respond eventually, but this takes the cake for no response.
Fred: Fred, a good friend of mine, came with their partner this summer to swim at my pool. We had an amazing, deep conversation, and had a truly great time. After that, Fred went silent. No responses, nothing. I did text Fred a few times, of course leaving plenty of time in between, mainly check-in texts, nothing. The last time we texted was in July. Their partner did respond to my texts, though, and all seemed fine so far. Just found it very odd.
Those are the key three people whose non-responses are bothering me the most, mostly because it's somewhat out of character for them. I feel stuck in between a rock and hard place, because I don't want to come across as annoying or needy, but I really need to know if they're mad at me, or if they just need space, or if they're going through their own hard times. I recognize and acknowledge I can't control other people or their responses, but this is really, really, really hard. I'm also still recovering from a bad friend breakup, so my insecurities, combined with those three people and others, are making me feel like I'm a bad person or a bad friend, or if I'm doing something wrong.
Should I also share my fears of being ghosted with them/friends in general, so they can be aware and try to 'align' with my communication style? (ie, what works for me would be to acknowledge my text, something like "I see your question/text, I'll get back to you when I can", or "I'm busy right now, I'll get back to you later" or SOMETHING, rather than absolutely no response)
I would really love insight and advice on how to deal with this, especially considering my anxious attachment style, and how I can get clarification or a reason why they have went silent. One of my worst fears is being ghosted, and this is triggering a lot of that in me, especially after my friend breakup, making me feel like a bad person and that something is wrong with me, but rationally I know it's not.
Thank you.
I was just thinking yesterday that there was a text thread I might have left hanging. The thread is with my best friend, whom I love, and concerns plans that are very important to me. Ordinarily the thread would have been my first priority. But shit happens and with the amount of urgent, difficult, draining business I've had on my plate the last couple weeks, I just haven't mustered the bandwidth to focus on it.
Just call. "You ok? Ok cool glad to hear it, let's catch up with you're less busy." -Fin-
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:35 AM on October 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Just call. "You ok? Ok cool glad to hear it, let's catch up with you're less busy." -Fin-
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:35 AM on October 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm really sorry to hear about your feelings of isolation. It's just a terrible time to feel that way.
My experience during These Times has been that pretty much everybody I know went into ghost mode, mostly subconsciously, after the first month or two of lockdown. People (in the US) started to come out of it in the spring and early summer, and slammed back into it during July and August. It feels like a collective trauma response.
In that brief open window, I had someone reply to a "you good?" email that I had sent them almost a year prior.
A few weeks back I decided I was gonna let go of trying to do anything new with other humans until next spring. No new social gatherings, even virtual, and no new stuff in community settings. I'm not trying to make new connections except for a continuing education program I signed up for months ago, where I figure the people who are still committed to showing up are making the effort to participate.
It feels like folks are emotionally flooded, and also like it's not possible to express those feelings because of all the messaging around us to Get Back To Normal Already.
I like to leave the hanging threads on a positive note - I just text or email the other person to say, no reply required right now, but I hope all is well with you and I'd like to connect the next time you're up for it.
Wishing you peace as you endure this difficult time.
posted by sockshaveholes at 6:45 AM on October 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
My experience during These Times has been that pretty much everybody I know went into ghost mode, mostly subconsciously, after the first month or two of lockdown. People (in the US) started to come out of it in the spring and early summer, and slammed back into it during July and August. It feels like a collective trauma response.
In that brief open window, I had someone reply to a "you good?" email that I had sent them almost a year prior.
A few weeks back I decided I was gonna let go of trying to do anything new with other humans until next spring. No new social gatherings, even virtual, and no new stuff in community settings. I'm not trying to make new connections except for a continuing education program I signed up for months ago, where I figure the people who are still committed to showing up are making the effort to participate.
It feels like folks are emotionally flooded, and also like it's not possible to express those feelings because of all the messaging around us to Get Back To Normal Already.
I like to leave the hanging threads on a positive note - I just text or email the other person to say, no reply required right now, but I hope all is well with you and I'd like to connect the next time you're up for it.
Wishing you peace as you endure this difficult time.
posted by sockshaveholes at 6:45 AM on October 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
I'm Sam: I have some nice plans for Saturday with some people, including dubious_dude. They're a little sketchy, but hey, that's how I roll- besides, pumpkin-patch-perusing is not exactly a high-stakes event that needs careful planning. I'll probably text my pal d_d on Saturday morning to confirm what time we're meeting. Or, to cancel, because I had a late night Friday and want a chilled out Saturday, plus its raining. In no way is this because of d_d.
I'm Ethel: I'm snowed under with work and some family stuff. Aw, it's so nice d_d had a good holiday and has a new niece. What a lovely baby. His texts make me smile. We haven't seen each other as regularly as usual, but that's because I have such a lot on my plate. Dang, I really should text d_d back but all my bandwidth is taken up with my stressful stuff. It'd be nice if he reached out to see if I'm ok and didn't hold my not texting back against me!
I'm Fred: I'm in a different town and I'm really involved in life with my partner, maybe we're buying a house or planning a family. D_d is a great dude, and I had an ace time with him over the summer. Maybe we can do that again next year when I'm back in town! But I don't feel the need to keep in touch with him in-between times.
Basically: most every action people do is driven by those people's own lives, and not because of other people. It sucks that these people aren't holding up what you consider to be the level of friendship that you've established, or are letting you down. The best thing to do is to reach out with concern for them, rather than seeking reassurance from them. If I was any of these people and recieved communication from you along the lines of "Omg have I done something wrong? Are you ghosting me? Can we talk about this??" I would be quite distressed, and would probably avoid having that conversation with you, because it is clearly so self-driven from you, and lacks insight into the ebb-and-flow of human lives and relationships. I trust my friends to like me and to be in touch, and to take time away from our friendships for their own life-reasons.
Also, yes, we are all different from how we were pre-pandemic. I'm seeing a lot of people desperate for human connection but also acting a lot more sporadically, flaking more, etc. It's like we've gone a bit feral having to cope with isolation, and it will take a while to re-adjust to being social beings again.
posted by Balthamos at 6:48 AM on October 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
I'm Ethel: I'm snowed under with work and some family stuff. Aw, it's so nice d_d had a good holiday and has a new niece. What a lovely baby. His texts make me smile. We haven't seen each other as regularly as usual, but that's because I have such a lot on my plate. Dang, I really should text d_d back but all my bandwidth is taken up with my stressful stuff. It'd be nice if he reached out to see if I'm ok and didn't hold my not texting back against me!
I'm Fred: I'm in a different town and I'm really involved in life with my partner, maybe we're buying a house or planning a family. D_d is a great dude, and I had an ace time with him over the summer. Maybe we can do that again next year when I'm back in town! But I don't feel the need to keep in touch with him in-between times.
Basically: most every action people do is driven by those people's own lives, and not because of other people. It sucks that these people aren't holding up what you consider to be the level of friendship that you've established, or are letting you down. The best thing to do is to reach out with concern for them, rather than seeking reassurance from them. If I was any of these people and recieved communication from you along the lines of "Omg have I done something wrong? Are you ghosting me? Can we talk about this??" I would be quite distressed, and would probably avoid having that conversation with you, because it is clearly so self-driven from you, and lacks insight into the ebb-and-flow of human lives and relationships. I trust my friends to like me and to be in touch, and to take time away from our friendships for their own life-reasons.
Also, yes, we are all different from how we were pre-pandemic. I'm seeing a lot of people desperate for human connection but also acting a lot more sporadically, flaking more, etc. It's like we've gone a bit feral having to cope with isolation, and it will take a while to re-adjust to being social beings again.
posted by Balthamos at 6:48 AM on October 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
A few weeks ago I had a morning where it was something like 11am on a weekday and no one--friends, family, coworkers--had responded to anything I sent, I hadn't had anything but marketing emails, my dogs slept in instead of greeting me at my bed, my phone glitched and played static instead of my alarm tone, I missed my train by a second and was left standing on a completely empty platform, and the touch screen water cooler at work wasn't recognizing my fingers. It was BIZARRE.
So I simply recounted this to a few people and was like hello I know you're busy but will you please respond to this so I know I haven't been disappeared from history like Marty McFly and people were like no you're still here sorry for being flaky catch up with you later.
I agree that it's a hard time and everyone is doing their best, no one is required to give their time on demand, but I also think it's ok sometimes to be like "I am having a very difficult/weird day, I really need someone to validate me right now even if it's just a silly gif."
posted by phunniemee at 6:53 AM on October 7, 2021 [14 favorites]
So I simply recounted this to a few people and was like hello I know you're busy but will you please respond to this so I know I haven't been disappeared from history like Marty McFly and people were like no you're still here sorry for being flaky catch up with you later.
I agree that it's a hard time and everyone is doing their best, no one is required to give their time on demand, but I also think it's ok sometimes to be like "I am having a very difficult/weird day, I really need someone to validate me right now even if it's just a silly gif."
posted by phunniemee at 6:53 AM on October 7, 2021 [14 favorites]
Response by poster: Not to threadsit, just a couple small minor clarification items.
1) The reason I want to get the pumpkin patch planned out is because they require reservations/tickets.
2) I and my friends are Deaf, so calling wouldn't be possible. I could FaceTime call them, but I personally find that rude and off-putting to do "out of the blue", and always ask beforehand if they are available to FT.
posted by dubious_dude at 6:58 AM on October 7, 2021
1) The reason I want to get the pumpkin patch planned out is because they require reservations/tickets.
2) I and my friends are Deaf, so calling wouldn't be possible. I could FaceTime call them, but I personally find that rude and off-putting to do "out of the blue", and always ask beforehand if they are available to FT.
posted by dubious_dude at 6:58 AM on October 7, 2021
I’ve noticed that people are doing particularly poorly right now. We went through a life-changing pandemic and then it looked like things were getting better (yay!) and then, nope, things are actually still quite bad and now we are going into winter.
All of this is to say that I think there is a good chance that none of this has to do with you. It seems completely believable to me that several people in your life could be independently struggling in way that has nothing to do with you.
Have you reached out to specifically ask how they are doing and to let them know you are there to help if they need it? That would probably be my next step, leave it open ended and assume they’ll be in touch when they’re ready.
posted by scantee at 6:59 AM on October 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
All of this is to say that I think there is a good chance that none of this has to do with you. It seems completely believable to me that several people in your life could be independently struggling in way that has nothing to do with you.
Have you reached out to specifically ask how they are doing and to let them know you are there to help if they need it? That would probably be my next step, leave it open ended and assume they’ll be in touch when they’re ready.
posted by scantee at 6:59 AM on October 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
I also wondered if you're sure your phone is ok. It might not even affect everyone you text with. Sometimes the phone OS gets an update (e.g. Android just added encrypted texting but I think only for other Android users), or sometimes iPhones get weird about distinguishing messages that go through their own network from SMS.
If you reached out to one or two of those friends with "hey, I'm worrying my phone might be having a problem because I'm not getting any texts, can you please let me know if you get this?" Most people would be inclined to get back to you fast. (And, I was thinking if you don't hear back fast a follow up on email or Facebook or whatever other kind of comms you have, in case there really is a problem).
Maybe they're having trouble working out a response because of something in their calendar that isn't settled or some family issue they don't want to talk to people about yet, but "help me figure out if my phone is broken" is a quick icebreaker way for them to be helpful.
posted by Lady Li at 7:48 AM on October 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you reached out to one or two of those friends with "hey, I'm worrying my phone might be having a problem because I'm not getting any texts, can you please let me know if you get this?" Most people would be inclined to get back to you fast. (And, I was thinking if you don't hear back fast a follow up on email or Facebook or whatever other kind of comms you have, in case there really is a problem).
Maybe they're having trouble working out a response because of something in their calendar that isn't settled or some family issue they don't want to talk to people about yet, but "help me figure out if my phone is broken" is a quick icebreaker way for them to be helpful.
posted by Lady Li at 7:48 AM on October 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
nthing scantee and sockshaveholes--pandemic has impacted social planning bigtime.
posted by Elsie at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2021
posted by Elsie at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2021
Hey, sorry this is happening. Here are my thoughts:
Sam: something could have happened with the friend they wanted to invite; maybe friend hasn't gotten back to them; maybe they had a conflict; maybe something is going on with Sam that has nothing to do with you. Sam has lately been non-responsive, and they noted their own lethargy so I would kinda chalk it up to that.
Ethel: it sounds like something is going on with her if this out of the ordinary. Have you asked her "are you ok?"
Fred: that is weird. Having a great conversation and then complete radio silence since the summer? If you said, "hey how are you?" and got nothing, that sounds kinda rude. When you were texting the partner, did you ask them if Fred has been getting your texts?
It's tough. Friends can be flaky, even the ones you know well, love a lot and have been friends with for a long time. People are going through their own crap too. My only suggestions are to distract yourself, go for a long walk, throw yourself into a hobby, cook yourself a wonderful meal... just to get your mind off this. You're right you can't control others; only your own reaction. For Sam I would assume the pumpkin patch is not happening (or they could pop up at the last second?), for Ethel I would say something like, "hey haven't heard from you in a while. Are you ok? I'm here to talk if you need anything", for Fred, I would ask the partner if Fred (and partner) are doing ok (don't use partner as a conduit; ask how they're doing as well!).
Finally, it's Mercury retrograde. Yes, I'm going there. And it's in Libra, the sign of 1:1 relationships. So I'm going to blame Mercury retrograde (and COVID). It's affecting me too, but in different ways than what you've outlined here. Hugs if you want them!
posted by foxjacket at 8:21 AM on October 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sam: something could have happened with the friend they wanted to invite; maybe friend hasn't gotten back to them; maybe they had a conflict; maybe something is going on with Sam that has nothing to do with you. Sam has lately been non-responsive, and they noted their own lethargy so I would kinda chalk it up to that.
Ethel: it sounds like something is going on with her if this out of the ordinary. Have you asked her "are you ok?"
Fred: that is weird. Having a great conversation and then complete radio silence since the summer? If you said, "hey how are you?" and got nothing, that sounds kinda rude. When you were texting the partner, did you ask them if Fred has been getting your texts?
It's tough. Friends can be flaky, even the ones you know well, love a lot and have been friends with for a long time. People are going through their own crap too. My only suggestions are to distract yourself, go for a long walk, throw yourself into a hobby, cook yourself a wonderful meal... just to get your mind off this. You're right you can't control others; only your own reaction. For Sam I would assume the pumpkin patch is not happening (or they could pop up at the last second?), for Ethel I would say something like, "hey haven't heard from you in a while. Are you ok? I'm here to talk if you need anything", for Fred, I would ask the partner if Fred (and partner) are doing ok (don't use partner as a conduit; ask how they're doing as well!).
Finally, it's Mercury retrograde. Yes, I'm going there. And it's in Libra, the sign of 1:1 relationships. So I'm going to blame Mercury retrograde (and COVID). It's affecting me too, but in different ways than what you've outlined here. Hugs if you want them!
posted by foxjacket at 8:21 AM on October 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
I will add a vote for "not so okay right now" - it's the pandemic plus the shortening days, which means I have got to set myself a reminder to up my Vitamin D dosage, but in any case my ass is so kicked by the smallest things right now. I vote for a "hey, are you okay?" type message in each text thread, maybe even "hey, are you okay? don't worry about me if you're not, but let me know if I can help."
posted by Lyn Never at 9:16 AM on October 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyn Never at 9:16 AM on October 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
I was also coming on to mention Mercury retrograde. It ends in October 18th! But I’m similar, I’m asking people to send me things and those things haven’t arrived, people aren’t emailing me back. I can’t get through on the phone. It’s weird. I realize that may not be interesting to you but it helps me relax a bit and wait before I reach put again. Often these things are just a coincidence and a lull and will spring back to normal again.
posted by pairofshades at 9:21 AM on October 7, 2021
posted by pairofshades at 9:21 AM on October 7, 2021
Pretty much every time this happens to me it's because my pos phone is fucked again. Could that possibly be it?
posted by Don Pepino at 12:36 PM on October 7, 2021
posted by Don Pepino at 12:36 PM on October 7, 2021
Another vote for "everyone owes at least one text/email and is owned at least one text/email right now." I can completely empathize with why you'd be worried, but I'd give these people a little bit of the benefit of the doubt, at least for now.
For Sam, I'd send one last text, along the lines of "Hey, not trying to be pushy, but if we want to go to the pumpkin patch we'll need to make reservations by [x date/time]. No worries if something else has come up, we can do it another weekend, but let me either way. Thanks!" And then I'd assume you aren't going this weekend - better to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.
For Ethel, I'd probably hold back a bit - I'd assumed she's got a lot going on right now and doesn't have the bandwith for me at the moment.
For Fred, I'd probably wait until I had some plan to propose, and I'd make it a group text with him and his partner.
All of that said: I could FaceTime call them, but I personally find that rude and off-putting to do "out of the blue", and always ask beforehand if they are available to FT.
Ok, but do your friends find it rude? I can understand why the pressure to be on-camera on demand can be off-putting (hello Zoom), but if you FaceTime someone and it's not a good time for them to be on camera, they have the option of not picking up and instead texting you "Hey, not a good time to FT, but how about we talk tomorrow" or whatever. Since it sounds like a lot of your anxiety comes from the waiting/limbo period post-text, unless you know your friends hate out-of-the-blue FactTime calls, that might be the better option for you.
posted by coffeecat at 1:08 PM on October 7, 2021
For Sam, I'd send one last text, along the lines of "Hey, not trying to be pushy, but if we want to go to the pumpkin patch we'll need to make reservations by [x date/time]. No worries if something else has come up, we can do it another weekend, but let me either way. Thanks!" And then I'd assume you aren't going this weekend - better to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.
For Ethel, I'd probably hold back a bit - I'd assumed she's got a lot going on right now and doesn't have the bandwith for me at the moment.
For Fred, I'd probably wait until I had some plan to propose, and I'd make it a group text with him and his partner.
All of that said: I could FaceTime call them, but I personally find that rude and off-putting to do "out of the blue", and always ask beforehand if they are available to FT.
Ok, but do your friends find it rude? I can understand why the pressure to be on-camera on demand can be off-putting (hello Zoom), but if you FaceTime someone and it's not a good time for them to be on camera, they have the option of not picking up and instead texting you "Hey, not a good time to FT, but how about we talk tomorrow" or whatever. Since it sounds like a lot of your anxiety comes from the waiting/limbo period post-text, unless you know your friends hate out-of-the-blue FactTime calls, that might be the better option for you.
posted by coffeecat at 1:08 PM on October 7, 2021
Response by poster: Since it sounds like a lot of your anxiety comes from the waiting/limbo period post-text, unless you know your friends hate out-of-the-blue FactTime calls, that might be the better option for you.
Wouldn't calling them kind of seem a bit aggressive/pushy? That's what I'm afraid of being perceived as, which is why I go down the cautious route and ask first, all the time. If, for example, I texted a friend 2-3 times (spread out appropriately, of course), then zero response, wouldn't FT'ing (or calling, for hearing people) that friend be rude/aggressive? Curious for perspectives on that!
Pretty much every time this happens to me it's because my pos phone is fucked again. Could that possibly be it?
Could be; my brand new iPhone doesn't seem to have an issue texting people (I've tested and confirmed with a few people), but perhaps their phone is having issues. That could be, indeed!
posted by dubious_dude at 1:39 PM on October 7, 2021
Wouldn't calling them kind of seem a bit aggressive/pushy? That's what I'm afraid of being perceived as, which is why I go down the cautious route and ask first, all the time. If, for example, I texted a friend 2-3 times (spread out appropriately, of course), then zero response, wouldn't FT'ing (or calling, for hearing people) that friend be rude/aggressive? Curious for perspectives on that!
Pretty much every time this happens to me it's because my pos phone is fucked again. Could that possibly be it?
Could be; my brand new iPhone doesn't seem to have an issue texting people (I've tested and confirmed with a few people), but perhaps their phone is having issues. That could be, indeed!
posted by dubious_dude at 1:39 PM on October 7, 2021
Wouldn't calling them kind of seem a bit aggressive/pushy?
Norms around communication are of course changing quite fast, and again, if a friend has expressed they don't like unexpected calls then I wouldn't make one, but if it's just your own concern about being pushy? I generally don't randomly call friends myself, but if it's a timely matter (like determining reservations), then yeah. Is it pushy? I guess a little bit compared to a text, but again, they are free to not pick up. All making a call/FT is communicating is "hey friend, I'd like to communicate now" which I'd say is a perfectly reasonable thing to do with a friend.
posted by coffeecat at 2:23 PM on October 7, 2021
Norms around communication are of course changing quite fast, and again, if a friend has expressed they don't like unexpected calls then I wouldn't make one, but if it's just your own concern about being pushy? I generally don't randomly call friends myself, but if it's a timely matter (like determining reservations), then yeah. Is it pushy? I guess a little bit compared to a text, but again, they are free to not pick up. All making a call/FT is communicating is "hey friend, I'd like to communicate now" which I'd say is a perfectly reasonable thing to do with a friend.
posted by coffeecat at 2:23 PM on October 7, 2021
In general:
I recognize and acknowledge I can't control other people or their responses,
Should I also share my fears of being ghosted with them/friends in general, so they can be aware and try to 'align' with my communication style?
Do you see the conflict here? For all that you are couching it in terms of "be aware", there is still that strong undercurrent of control - you want them to make sure their communication style fits your desires.
Yes, there are certainly times when it is appropriate and even necessary to bring up communication disconnects with friends - but IME it works best when 1) neither party is particularly worked up (which you kinda are at the moment) and/or 2) there's a concrete example of consequences as a result of the disconnect.
The reason I want to get the pumpkin patch planned out is because they require reservations/tickets.
Does Sam know this? Like, guaranteed you have explicitly said in texts, "I need to know for sure how many people are coming so I can make reservations"?
If not, that seems a pretty good reason to reach out again. Otherwise he may very well be assuming that y'all can just show up whenever, or that him having already told you that he's bringing a friend he figures you're taking care of reservations for him & his friend & you & whoever else you're inviting & he doesn't NEED to weigh in on the location and times & etc.
But yeah, quite possibly some pandemic burnout going on - "Let's hit a pumpkin patch Saturday!" = "Cool, yeah." "Ok, we need to put down reservations and decide on a time and a meeting place and get an exact number in our party" = "Urgh, too much brain power, I'm gonna procrastinate in responding."
(On preview, strong second for everything Balthamos says.)
posted by soundguy99 at 3:07 PM on October 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
I recognize and acknowledge I can't control other people or their responses,
Should I also share my fears of being ghosted with them/friends in general, so they can be aware and try to 'align' with my communication style?
Do you see the conflict here? For all that you are couching it in terms of "be aware", there is still that strong undercurrent of control - you want them to make sure their communication style fits your desires.
Yes, there are certainly times when it is appropriate and even necessary to bring up communication disconnects with friends - but IME it works best when 1) neither party is particularly worked up (which you kinda are at the moment) and/or 2) there's a concrete example of consequences as a result of the disconnect.
The reason I want to get the pumpkin patch planned out is because they require reservations/tickets.
Does Sam know this? Like, guaranteed you have explicitly said in texts, "I need to know for sure how many people are coming so I can make reservations"?
If not, that seems a pretty good reason to reach out again. Otherwise he may very well be assuming that y'all can just show up whenever, or that him having already told you that he's bringing a friend he figures you're taking care of reservations for him & his friend & you & whoever else you're inviting & he doesn't NEED to weigh in on the location and times & etc.
But yeah, quite possibly some pandemic burnout going on - "Let's hit a pumpkin patch Saturday!" = "Cool, yeah." "Ok, we need to put down reservations and decide on a time and a meeting place and get an exact number in our party" = "Urgh, too much brain power, I'm gonna procrastinate in responding."
(On preview, strong second for everything Balthamos says.)
posted by soundguy99 at 3:07 PM on October 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry that you're feeling abandoned and rejected right now because that feeling really sucks. I agree with everyone who's mentioned that the pandemic has made a lot of us flakier, and it is not meant as any sort of rejection! I would guess that they all would like to see you but are feeling overwhelmed/unable to commit right now and don't want to say no but also can't say yes. I used to be super social but I am not doing anything that takes prior planning like a reservation. I'd love to see my friends!! But I also don't want to right now because life is so overwhelming, you know? I moved back to this city to be closer to my family and a big friend group and, outside of work, I basically have seen one friend, had dates (now a boyfriend), and my parents. I don't even see the former two people that much due to work tiring us out! My parents are 10 minutes from my job and yet I struggle sometimes to even see them once a week. That is it. Again, I really like them and everyone but it's too much right now.
I do a lot of things alone. I know it's not always as much fun but it can be fun in a different way. I understand that being the only Deaf person at a place makes it harder to connect with strangers, so I want to acknowledge that; I wish more people knew ASL, myself included. I now love doing things alone after having initially been scared; I would even call myself my own best friend, which is huge progress after years of feeling no amount of attention would ever be enough and I needed more and more friends. You can always text them in the morning "Getting a coffee at XYZ around 11. I know you're busy and this is last minute but you're welcome to join me, no pressure!" Or go to that pumpkin patch alone. Or go to one that doesn't require reservations because, tbh, ugh a reservation for a pumpkin patch? What has this world come to?! Get a mini pumpkin to decorate and drop off if you'd like. Or post a picture on social media "Had so much fun! I'd love to go again next Sunday if anyone wants to join me! The more the merrier." We can connect with friends even without being with them in the same old way. If you are really feeling in time of one-on-one time, just asking directly for it. "ABC, I've been feeling kinda lonely lately and having a quick FaceTime chat with you would be awesome! Could we try to find a time to chat for about 15 minutes sometime this weekend?"
I hope these plans work out! Regardless, I'm feeling positive and hopeful that things will get better once COVID improves (eventually, we hope!!)
posted by smorgasbord at 5:37 PM on October 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
I do a lot of things alone. I know it's not always as much fun but it can be fun in a different way. I understand that being the only Deaf person at a place makes it harder to connect with strangers, so I want to acknowledge that; I wish more people knew ASL, myself included. I now love doing things alone after having initially been scared; I would even call myself my own best friend, which is huge progress after years of feeling no amount of attention would ever be enough and I needed more and more friends. You can always text them in the morning "Getting a coffee at XYZ around 11. I know you're busy and this is last minute but you're welcome to join me, no pressure!" Or go to that pumpkin patch alone. Or go to one that doesn't require reservations because, tbh, ugh a reservation for a pumpkin patch? What has this world come to?! Get a mini pumpkin to decorate and drop off if you'd like. Or post a picture on social media "Had so much fun! I'd love to go again next Sunday if anyone wants to join me! The more the merrier." We can connect with friends even without being with them in the same old way. If you are really feeling in time of one-on-one time, just asking directly for it. "ABC, I've been feeling kinda lonely lately and having a quick FaceTime chat with you would be awesome! Could we try to find a time to chat for about 15 minutes sometime this weekend?"
I hope these plans work out! Regardless, I'm feeling positive and hopeful that things will get better once COVID improves (eventually, we hope!!)
posted by smorgasbord at 5:37 PM on October 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Of course all friend dynamics are individual, but if it were me, I would text Sam and say, "Hey, we still on for the pumpkin patch on Saturday? We need to get tickets if so." I might also add, "And if Saturday doesn't work, just let me know." It's true that this is a weird time, but if you're trying to firm up plans, you should feel free to do so.
With the other two, I'd just wait it out. I think others' responses about the ongoing weirdness and miasma of the pandemic are apt. The confluence of all three of these lapses at once feels particularly bad, I'm sure, but I think it's just a fluke of timing, the stars out of alignment, or whatever. There's no indication, based on what you've shared here, that your friendships with Ethel or Fred are on the ropes.
I've often felt the way you're feeling not with friends but with work-related emails and inquiries. My timeline for when I think I should hear back has sometimes been VERY short, and then when I don't get a response in that timeframe, I get irritated, feel slighted, rejected, whatever. Sometimes weeks later, I'll get a response, reminding me that not everyone is on my timeline.
posted by swheatie at 5:57 PM on October 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
With the other two, I'd just wait it out. I think others' responses about the ongoing weirdness and miasma of the pandemic are apt. The confluence of all three of these lapses at once feels particularly bad, I'm sure, but I think it's just a fluke of timing, the stars out of alignment, or whatever. There's no indication, based on what you've shared here, that your friendships with Ethel or Fred are on the ropes.
I've often felt the way you're feeling not with friends but with work-related emails and inquiries. My timeline for when I think I should hear back has sometimes been VERY short, and then when I don't get a response in that timeframe, I get irritated, feel slighted, rejected, whatever. Sometimes weeks later, I'll get a response, reminding me that not everyone is on my timeline.
posted by swheatie at 5:57 PM on October 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm having the same issues you are.SO much. I'm so sick of everyone else's pandemic depression and miasma and flakiness I could barf. I'm sick of wondering if people are depressed or just don't like me any more, because when people disappear, pre-pandemic it definitely meant they don't like me any more and I wonder to this day what it is I did wrong. How the hell am I supposed to know if they're too depressed to speak or what? I have a few friends who have just openly told me they are too depressed to do much of anything, but everyone else, who the hell knows.
I think with Sam, the suggestion above to say "Hey, I need to know by tomorrow if you still want to go to the pumpkin patch so I can make the reservations. If I don't hear from you, I'm going to assume you don't want to go any more and move on from there with my plans," and then assuming you won't hear from him, is the best idea. At least that way you have a deadline and then you know "welp, he's definitely flaked, guess I go to the patch alone" or whatever. Sam should be expecting that you're asking because he expressed interest, it's reasonable for you to ask.
Everyone else...I dunno. I think you've shot your shot a few times now at this point and now it's time to just...not try any more.
"I don't want to come across as annoying or needy, but I really need to know if they're mad at me, or if they just need space, or if they're going through their own hard times."
ME TOO. Problem is, you can't find out unless they are willing to tell you. My therapist gets on me for "making up stories" as to what happened and reiterates all the time that I don't know the truth, but I also CAN'T find out the truth. If they're home and don't want to talk to you, or are at home, desperately want to talk to you but are trapped under something heavy--how the hell would you know? Pay a psychic to ask? Either way, you could try asking them, but (a) yeah, you do come off as clingy and needy if you demand a response, and (b) they can still choose to ignore you and not respond even if you beg them for a response.
...Yeah, I feel the same as you do, same exact issues, but the conclusion I keep having to come to is to just leave them be. They might come back God knows when, or they may never, and we just have to accept that and let them go on some level, or at least learn to detach. I can't make them respond and I have certainly hashed out whether or not "I should do something" in therapy a lot over the last period of hell. I end up feeling bad when I try doing something and get ignored, so now I just don't try. All I've got after 18 months of angst and agita is that I have to detach, give up my hopes, and let go. Some may return (briefly in some cases and then they're all gone again....), or not. It's not up to you or me and we may never know.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:50 PM on October 7, 2021
I think with Sam, the suggestion above to say "Hey, I need to know by tomorrow if you still want to go to the pumpkin patch so I can make the reservations. If I don't hear from you, I'm going to assume you don't want to go any more and move on from there with my plans," and then assuming you won't hear from him, is the best idea. At least that way you have a deadline and then you know "welp, he's definitely flaked, guess I go to the patch alone" or whatever. Sam should be expecting that you're asking because he expressed interest, it's reasonable for you to ask.
Everyone else...I dunno. I think you've shot your shot a few times now at this point and now it's time to just...not try any more.
"I don't want to come across as annoying or needy, but I really need to know if they're mad at me, or if they just need space, or if they're going through their own hard times."
ME TOO. Problem is, you can't find out unless they are willing to tell you. My therapist gets on me for "making up stories" as to what happened and reiterates all the time that I don't know the truth, but I also CAN'T find out the truth. If they're home and don't want to talk to you, or are at home, desperately want to talk to you but are trapped under something heavy--how the hell would you know? Pay a psychic to ask? Either way, you could try asking them, but (a) yeah, you do come off as clingy and needy if you demand a response, and (b) they can still choose to ignore you and not respond even if you beg them for a response.
...Yeah, I feel the same as you do, same exact issues, but the conclusion I keep having to come to is to just leave them be. They might come back God knows when, or they may never, and we just have to accept that and let them go on some level, or at least learn to detach. I can't make them respond and I have certainly hashed out whether or not "I should do something" in therapy a lot over the last period of hell. I end up feeling bad when I try doing something and get ignored, so now I just don't try. All I've got after 18 months of angst and agita is that I have to detach, give up my hopes, and let go. Some may return (briefly in some cases and then they're all gone again....), or not. It's not up to you or me and we may never know.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:50 PM on October 7, 2021
I would really love insight and advice on how to deal with this, especially considering my anxious attachment style, and how I can get clarification or a reason why they have went silent.
hello fellow anxious attacher.
advice for how to deal:
your abandonment center is activated!! pretty sure this part of your brain is the "inner child" that everyone is always saying you have to learn how to "re-parent" and "self soothe"
so get to know yourself. listen to yourself. i legit talk to this part of my brain like it is a toddler... like you are not supposed to be a dick to a toddler, you know? but you also know that a toddler does not have the tools/perspective to be fully rational. so the goal is acknowledge what abandonment center is saying, don't be dismissive, and look for way to move out of a crisis feeling. so i say things to myself like:
"ok, i hear you, you are scared of being alone and abandoned over the weekend. you're right. it is a risk and it sucks and being lonely might suck. but i will be here for you and i care that you are upset and i will do my best to make some other plan b plans. and even if there can't be other plans, i will do some things for you like [video games, movies, calling more consistently available friend] and it will be ok."
and then i do things to try to de-activate the stress signal. go for a walk, play a mindless game for a minute, color, music, even some self soothing touch stuff that i was utterly dismissive of at first (you put your own hands on your forehead, or neck, or on your sides) but it legit does help quite a lot. talk at myself about the problem and see if i can make myself laugh.
anxious attachment means you really, truly think that someone else has to make you feel better. it is important to try learning self care/self soothing habits. and maybe all you can do is acknowledge that you feel bad and you can't get to "feeling better." that's ok too. just be there for yourself.
how I can get clarification or a reason why they have went silent
don't.
anxious attachment means you perceive a change in frequency or intensity of communication as an injury, as a sign of abandonment. that is faulty perception.
you should try learning to soothe that anxiety yourself by reminding yourself that the change you've noticed isn't danger. it's just your friends having their own life.
i do think it is ok to get clarity on logistics, or to express that you'd love to catch up whenever they are up for it.
i don't think you should attempt to get clarification until you have gotten out of crisis feeling.
if there really was a problem, you would need to spell it out in the "i noticed [ ], it seems [ ], what am i missing?" format, which is sort of a "crucial conversation" conflict resolution trick.
you can't do this when your abandonment crisis center is activated because it would look like:
i noticed [your lack of response]. it seems like [you no longer care about me]. what did i do wrong to deserve this? why would you do this to me?
if you didn't perceive change in frequency as danger, maybe you could get to:
i noticed [your lack of response]. it seems like [you have been busy]. maybe i don't have the whole picture? i wanted to check in and see how you are doing, and would love to catch up sometime.
but again, that would be if you are out of crisis. if you try to soothe a crisis by starting a friend inquisition then that is building up the anxious attachment habit instead of a new secure one.
anxious attachment is HARD and i would very much like to flip whatever the fuck switch in there is fucking around with me all the time, but that is apparently not how it works. i wish you all the luck in dealing with it, you got this.
posted by skrozidile at 7:32 PM on October 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
hello fellow anxious attacher.
advice for how to deal:
your abandonment center is activated!! pretty sure this part of your brain is the "inner child" that everyone is always saying you have to learn how to "re-parent" and "self soothe"
so get to know yourself. listen to yourself. i legit talk to this part of my brain like it is a toddler... like you are not supposed to be a dick to a toddler, you know? but you also know that a toddler does not have the tools/perspective to be fully rational. so the goal is acknowledge what abandonment center is saying, don't be dismissive, and look for way to move out of a crisis feeling. so i say things to myself like:
"ok, i hear you, you are scared of being alone and abandoned over the weekend. you're right. it is a risk and it sucks and being lonely might suck. but i will be here for you and i care that you are upset and i will do my best to make some other plan b plans. and even if there can't be other plans, i will do some things for you like [video games, movies, calling more consistently available friend] and it will be ok."
and then i do things to try to de-activate the stress signal. go for a walk, play a mindless game for a minute, color, music, even some self soothing touch stuff that i was utterly dismissive of at first (you put your own hands on your forehead, or neck, or on your sides) but it legit does help quite a lot. talk at myself about the problem and see if i can make myself laugh.
anxious attachment means you really, truly think that someone else has to make you feel better. it is important to try learning self care/self soothing habits. and maybe all you can do is acknowledge that you feel bad and you can't get to "feeling better." that's ok too. just be there for yourself.
how I can get clarification or a reason why they have went silent
don't.
anxious attachment means you perceive a change in frequency or intensity of communication as an injury, as a sign of abandonment. that is faulty perception.
you should try learning to soothe that anxiety yourself by reminding yourself that the change you've noticed isn't danger. it's just your friends having their own life.
i do think it is ok to get clarity on logistics, or to express that you'd love to catch up whenever they are up for it.
i don't think you should attempt to get clarification until you have gotten out of crisis feeling.
if there really was a problem, you would need to spell it out in the "i noticed [ ], it seems [ ], what am i missing?" format, which is sort of a "crucial conversation" conflict resolution trick.
you can't do this when your abandonment crisis center is activated because it would look like:
i noticed [your lack of response]. it seems like [you no longer care about me]. what did i do wrong to deserve this? why would you do this to me?
if you didn't perceive change in frequency as danger, maybe you could get to:
i noticed [your lack of response]. it seems like [you have been busy]. maybe i don't have the whole picture? i wanted to check in and see how you are doing, and would love to catch up sometime.
but again, that would be if you are out of crisis. if you try to soothe a crisis by starting a friend inquisition then that is building up the anxious attachment habit instead of a new secure one.
anxious attachment is HARD and i would very much like to flip whatever the fuck switch in there is fucking around with me all the time, but that is apparently not how it works. i wish you all the luck in dealing with it, you got this.
posted by skrozidile at 7:32 PM on October 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
Hey dubious_dude, I want to apologize for my suggestion that you use the phone and assuming that was an option for you. Thanks for being gracious in your correction.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:51 PM on October 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 7:51 PM on October 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Were you able to connect with Sam?
posted by mermaidcafe at 4:23 PM on October 8, 2021
posted by mermaidcafe at 4:23 PM on October 8, 2021
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses!
Mermaidcafe:
Yes and no. Sam reached out yesterday, said sorry, he was in a funk and that he'd reply later. Today, I told Sam that I was there if he needed any support, and that if he didn't go this weekend, I'd understand, and that I was always here if he needed me. He then replied a somewhat confusing response, saying sorry for being busy (not acknowledging my text today offering support, nor saying anything about being in a funk), and asked for details about tomorrow's get-together (timing, etc). I explained, then no reply. Kind of confusing and jarring, and out of character for him, to be honest. I have no idea what's going on with him right now, but for now, I'll have to let it go and try to reconnect later, if not tomorrow.
For the others, I'll hold off and wait a bit.
posted by dubious_dude at 4:42 PM on October 8, 2021
Mermaidcafe:
Yes and no. Sam reached out yesterday, said sorry, he was in a funk and that he'd reply later. Today, I told Sam that I was there if he needed any support, and that if he didn't go this weekend, I'd understand, and that I was always here if he needed me. He then replied a somewhat confusing response, saying sorry for being busy (not acknowledging my text today offering support, nor saying anything about being in a funk), and asked for details about tomorrow's get-together (timing, etc). I explained, then no reply. Kind of confusing and jarring, and out of character for him, to be honest. I have no idea what's going on with him right now, but for now, I'll have to let it go and try to reconnect later, if not tomorrow.
For the others, I'll hold off and wait a bit.
posted by dubious_dude at 4:42 PM on October 8, 2021
I'm sorry to hear that Sam was vague and confusing (though hey, you tried!). I guess he's not going if he hasn't committed to a reservation. Bummer.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:18 PM on October 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:18 PM on October 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: For those wondering of any updates, Sam was struggling with his own stuff, and did try to go, but by the time he responded, reservations to the pumpkin patch were all filled up. He ended up not going, but I did go with another friend and had a great time.
Ethel and Fred, I'll leave them be and check back in November.
Thanks again!
posted by dubious_dude at 7:35 PM on October 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ethel and Fred, I'll leave them be and check back in November.
Thanks again!
posted by dubious_dude at 7:35 PM on October 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
"How are you doing" isn't always a fun question to answer - the person may feel bad but not want to talk about it, or they just don't feel like writing about themselves, or even if things are good, they may not want to boast.
Sometimes sending a meme, or a simple light convo is a better opener. Sometimes I'll send a photo of a previous time we hung out, like "My phone showed me this today, made me smile to see you!" which is a nice way to give someone a little hit of dopamine without demanding anything of them, so they're more likely to reply.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:05 AM on October 21, 2021
Sometimes sending a meme, or a simple light convo is a better opener. Sometimes I'll send a photo of a previous time we hung out, like "My phone showed me this today, made me smile to see you!" which is a nice way to give someone a little hit of dopamine without demanding anything of them, so they're more likely to reply.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:05 AM on October 21, 2021
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I don’t know what your normal level of interaction with Fred is, but maybe he’s busy/not great at texting/living through a pandemic/ feeling vulnerable after your talk this summer.
With Ethel and Sam: I’m sorry if you done this, but have you confirmed your phone is working, that there isn’t some technology weirdness?
If so, then give both a call. It’s okay.
posted by bluedaisy at 6:31 AM on October 7, 2021 [4 favorites]