what's a 'line' in property survey terminology?
October 5, 2021 8:07 PM Subscribe
The legal description of a piece of property in California reads: "Beginning on the Northern line of Broadway at a Station from which the point of intersection of said line with the Western line of [cross street] ..." with compass directions and distances based off that.
What defines the line in 'Northern line' and 'Western line'? Is it the edge of the sidewalk adjoining the property? That's what it appears to be on the local GIS web image, but that site's disclaimer says "accurate within five to ten feet".
Those are the northern and western boundaries of the respective right-of-ways. You'd need to get ahold of the plat map (and any street vacations or takings since then) to know exactly where those lines are. Frequently it's defined as "X-foot wide ROW" with centerline monuments. Theoretically, sidewalks should be within the right of way, but you don't know if the sidewalk was built to the limit of the ROW. Also, depending on the age of your property (if it was laid out thru metes and bounds vs a plat/subdivision) the ROW and your property boundary could overlap, as opposed to meeting along the same line.
Absolutely do not use anything digital to figure out where your exact boundary is. If you want a fence on the line, or to call BS on your neighbor, call a land surveyor. Surveyors joke that GIS is an acronym for "Get It Surveyed".
posted by cult_url_bias at 10:37 PM on October 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Absolutely do not use anything digital to figure out where your exact boundary is. If you want a fence on the line, or to call BS on your neighbor, call a land surveyor. Surveyors joke that GIS is an acronym for "Get It Surveyed".
posted by cult_url_bias at 10:37 PM on October 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
If the property has been professionally surveyed in the past, there is a good chance you can find the exact corner used by the surveyor. If it’s located where there’s pavement, it could look like an ‘x’ notched into the concrete. If it’s on ground, there could be an iron pin with a small round cap. Of course pins and even concrete can migrate over time so a new survey might note the exact offset from the found ‘x’ or pin, or note if the surveyor had to set a new monument. For example, where I live nearly every property has a small ‘x’ notched in the concrete about 6 inches from the edge of the sidewalk showing where the lot lines meet the official right-of-way line.
posted by stopgap at 5:00 AM on October 6, 2021
posted by stopgap at 5:00 AM on October 6, 2021
The mapped GIS property boundaries are approximate and can't be used to determine anything if you need the actual boundary. They're useful for plenty of things that are not that precise.
If you need to know the property boundaries, hire a licensed surveyor. They have the institutional knowledge to know/find out exactly what the reference points in the deed are. Sometimes these reference points change, or you need to go through a series of other documents in order to identify the current reference. As when they refer to a stake placed between yours and a neighboring property as a starting point... is that stake still there? No? Then you have to do some digging.
However, if you're just curious, I would interpret that to be the northern edge of the city right-of-way. The right-of-way is typically defined by city code, and can vary in different jurisdictions.
posted by DoubleLune at 8:06 AM on October 6, 2021
If you need to know the property boundaries, hire a licensed surveyor. They have the institutional knowledge to know/find out exactly what the reference points in the deed are. Sometimes these reference points change, or you need to go through a series of other documents in order to identify the current reference. As when they refer to a stake placed between yours and a neighboring property as a starting point... is that stake still there? No? Then you have to do some digging.
However, if you're just curious, I would interpret that to be the northern edge of the city right-of-way. The right-of-way is typically defined by city code, and can vary in different jurisdictions.
posted by DoubleLune at 8:06 AM on October 6, 2021
Commonly-found entries:
The [northern] centerline of [public roadway] = a line that includes half of the public right of way
The [northern] line of [public roadway] = the right of way line, as defined by local law, often 2 rods (33 feet) from the centerline, and frequently wider on major highways.
The "right of way" is an important interest. It extends some distance from the "edge of metal", the border of the paved surface, to allow for such things as drainage structures to be installed and to provide for clearance of trees and brush. Public utilities are often given the right to place above-ground (poles and wires) and below-ground (pipes and conduits) improvements within the right-of way without having to secure individualized easements from the adjoining landowners.
The theoretical difference to the adjoining landowners depends on whether the responsible authority owns the roadway and right of way outright or only has easement rights. In practice, it makes no difference, unless the authority decides to relinquish the rights.
posted by yclipse at 9:12 PM on October 6, 2021
The [northern] centerline of [public roadway] = a line that includes half of the public right of way
The [northern] line of [public roadway] = the right of way line, as defined by local law, often 2 rods (33 feet) from the centerline, and frequently wider on major highways.
The "right of way" is an important interest. It extends some distance from the "edge of metal", the border of the paved surface, to allow for such things as drainage structures to be installed and to provide for clearance of trees and brush. Public utilities are often given the right to place above-ground (poles and wires) and below-ground (pipes and conduits) improvements within the right-of way without having to secure individualized easements from the adjoining landowners.
The theoretical difference to the adjoining landowners depends on whether the responsible authority owns the roadway and right of way outright or only has easement rights. In practice, it makes no difference, unless the authority decides to relinquish the rights.
posted by yclipse at 9:12 PM on October 6, 2021
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In some parts of LA, I’ve seen the ROW line go down the middle of the sidewalk.
posted by hwyengr at 8:22 PM on October 5, 2021