I don’t want pencil sketch to become permanent under my Copic drawings

September 30, 2021 8:43 PM

Is there a better way to make a sketch, apply marker over the sketch, and then erase the sketch?

I like to make abstract drawings on marker paper. My favorite paper has been Crescent Rendr No Show Thru Paper, but I haven’t seen that the choice of paper makes a difference for my problem. I sketch some ideas in pencil (I use any old writing pencil, so I guess that tends to be like a 2B?), then draw designs with some Copic markers that may follow the pencil lines or not. It’s all very free-form, so there tends to be lots of maker over the pencil.

The pencil wasn’t intended to be in the final design, so when it’s all done, I want to erase the pencil lines. However, wherever the marker went, the pencil has become permanent. It appears to me that the alcohol has maybe carried the graphite deep into the paper fiber where the eraser can’t reach it. My web searching shows that other people experience this too.

So far, my workaround is to partially erase the pencil until it is very faint before I start applying maker. However, that’s boring housekeeping work when I want to be applying some color to paper! It can also be less than 100% effective at keeping the unwanted pencil out of the final picture.

Does anyone have an alternative approach to this problem? Maybe a special kind of pencil…special kind of paper? I’m really happy with the process except for the fact that the pencil won’t erase.

posted by polecat to Media & Arts (20 answers total)

Use a lightbox instead?
posted by Jubey at 8:59 PM on September 30, 2021 [5 favorites]

This just seems to be the nature of layers and the way markers work? If you lay the pencil down and then the marker over it (particularly quality copic brands that tend to be permanent and lightfast), then I wouldn't expect you to be able to erase it. The marker layer is on top of the pencil layer now, if you want to really get it clean you'd have to go through the marker layer (which you can't and defeats the purpose anyway).

Best way to have no pencil lines at all is to go with Jubey's suggestion and do a pencil sketch then use a lightbox to marker over it on a fresh sheet. Or find a way to incorporation the pencil marks into the abstract design.
posted by sprezzy at 9:17 PM on September 30, 2021 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: A lightbox is something I hadn't thought of. I just held some of the Rendr No Show Thru Paper up to a lamp, and it looks pretty opaque. Then, I tried some Strathmore 400 Series Marker Paper, and it looks like it might work better. The Copic does bleed through that one, of course.

It has definitely occurred to me that maybe I just can't have everything I want here, but I had to ask!
posted by polecat at 9:24 PM on September 30, 2021

I just saw a comment on reddit a few days ago where someone said they sketch with a frixion pen and then pop their completed art in the microwave for a couple seconds to erase it. Genius.

That said you should probably test this method a few times before committing on a big piece.
posted by phunniemee at 9:33 PM on September 30, 2021 [11 favorites]

Response by poster: Wow, I didn't know about Frixion pens! I just read about them, and for anyone else's benefit, I'll note that supposedly they don't truly erase--it's just that heat makes the color disappear. The downside (potentially, anyway) is that cold will bring the color back. I may have to do some experiments...
posted by polecat at 9:54 PM on September 30, 2021

You might try doing your initial sketches with a fine tipped light toned marker I suppose.. if you know your final color palette, maybe pick something closeish? I don't know copics, but I know Prisma sells single colors and they have a fine tip..
posted by Jack Karaoke at 9:57 PM on September 30, 2021

I sketch with a pale blue or yellow pencil when I need the lines to visually disappear into a colored drawing. You can still see them if you look, but it's not like graphite.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:20 PM on September 30, 2021 [3 favorites]

How to copy a drawing - YouTube.
Camera lucida - Wikipedia.
How a Camera Lucida Works and How It Can Help Artists.

Based on old childhood memories of that toy thing that let you trace pictures by projecting them.

A reverse lightbox of sorts......
posted by zengargoyle at 10:48 PM on September 30, 2021 [1 favorite]

The sketch artists I know use a pale blue pencil for this, but they're usually going over with ink/black first so they can erase at that stage, prior to laying down lighter markers. I still think it would help of course.
posted by Lady Li at 11:38 PM on September 30, 2021 [2 favorites]

Yes, try different pencils and paper types. What Lady Li refers to is called "non-photo blue" and is used by comics artists and other graphic professionals before they ink their linework as it is not picked up by scanners (well, it is a little bit, but much less than a graphite lead). I'm not sure how it would behave with the Copics- you might have the same problem, but it might be a little better than graphite.

Otherwise, a lightbox is definitely what you want. You can get some pretty cheap large ones these days. Give a few different types of paper a try- it's surprising how well lightboxes work even with high GSM papers so you might well still be able to use your preferred one!
posted by Balthamos at 1:56 AM on October 1, 2021 [5 favorites]

Have you tried sketching with a light copic? It should somewhat blend away as you layer. Otherwise an LED light box and thinner paper may work. One trick is to turn down the rest of the lights to really allow you to see through the paper.
posted by Crystalinne at 2:14 AM on October 1, 2021

Over the top me says to set up a webcam to look at the original, pipe it through a computer to a short-throw projector mounted above and to the left/right of your drawing surface. The computer takes the image from the camera and does some transforms so that the projection preserves aspect and such. Sketch on whatever paper you like with whatever pencil you like, put it under the camera, put your copic paper of choice into the projection area and well you could scale and rotate and do all sorts of things to the sketched image before projection onto virgin media.

I really like this question, it's how I doodled in high school and such (-ish). More of random scribbles and looking for an image inside and just going heavier and heavier to bring form from chaos. I hope I understand the sketch in pencil covered with pen sort of idea.

You could also.... pre-draw your final from the messy sketch with an eraser (they make rotating mechanical ones) to make the voids where you want your copic to go, then copic, then erase the rest.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:45 AM on October 1, 2021

Work with a 2H or harder pencil. This will give you a light line that will be pushed back by the marker. The harder pencils are more clay content and less graphite.

Try blending out the pencil with a blender colorless marker. The solvent marker may be better at rubbing the graphite residue deeper into the paper and making it less visible. I suspect the erasing is abrading the paper surface.

Try working with a water color pencil that matches the shade of the marker you are working with. That way the line will match the body color and less visible.
posted by effluvia at 7:00 AM on October 1, 2021

Response by poster: Thanks for the ideas everyone! I expect my first experiments will be with some harder pencils and colored pencils. I'll be doing it carefully--although the graphite pencils don't seem to be harming my Copic markers so far, I had read some things to suggest that some kinds of colored pencils might get absorbed into the Copic nibs.
posted by polecat at 10:39 AM on October 1, 2021

The wax based color pencils might possibly be absorbed by the marker solvent tips, but the water color pencils are gum tragacanth and I don't think they would seal the tip of your marker. You can also try rubbing the marker tip across a fine sanding paddle and using a vinyl eraser as it would abrade the surface less.
posted by effluvia at 10:42 AM on October 1, 2021

Response by poster: effluvia, that's very good to know. Good guidance for my shopping trip this weekend! FWIW, whatever abrasion might be occurring on the Rendr paper doesn't seem to harm the marker lines--the end result looks really clean (except of course for those pencil marks that the eraser can't seem to touch).

Oh, and zengargoyle, your description of scribbling over other scribbling is a good characterization of what I'm doing. The idea of marking where the eraser has "drawn" is certainly something I should try.
posted by polecat at 10:50 AM on October 1, 2021

I like Canson Marker Paper and Legion Yupo Translucent Paper*. You can do a sketch on scratch paper and then marker over them without using a lightbox.

If I'm working on something Important, I tape the sketch onto a board with masking/drafting tape, then tape the marker paper over it. Otherwise, I just tuck the sketch into the pad of marker paper under the top sheet.

* Warning, Yupo is weird. Try one of their wee sample pads and see if you like it.
posted by BrashTech at 11:38 AM on October 1, 2021

There is definitely a bit of experimenting to do, but generally speaking I would say this:

• Go for harder lead and try to use a lighter touch. Consider switching to a mechanical pencil as well. I like the Uni Kuru Toga because it has a "self-sharpening" feature, and it's comfy to hold. One of the benefits of a mechanical pencil is simply that there's less lead on the paper so less to erase.
• Someone above recommended a white vinyl eraser, and for this purpose I also agree. (Typically I like kneaded erasers, but I use them for different purposes than you do). Specifically, look at the Clic eraser it's cheap and has the form factor of a pencil, so you can be very precise in a way that block erasers aren't.

posted by jeremias at 12:12 PM on October 1, 2021

If you haven't got a lightbox already, and you want to start cheap, you could try the Crayola Light-Up Tracing Pad. A Google search revealed a range of prices for these, and that they're available from many sources including Target, Walmart, and Amazon.
posted by TimHare at 9:31 PM on October 1, 2021

→ Frixion pens … cold will bring the color back

It very much will. Ship your artwork during winter, and the Frixion ink will come back full strength
posted by scruss at 12:39 PM on October 2, 2021