Tell me about breeding moths
September 24, 2021 7:06 PM Subscribe
So I've learned that moth numbers are declining all over the place and that's affecting lots of animals that depend on them. I live in the countryside with some outdoor space and I would like to breed moths and release them. What type of moth should I breed?
This is partly a symbolic gesture and partly an earnest attempt to try to give the local ecosystem a boost. If it works, I'll try to convince other people to do it too, maybe it can be a thing.
I find a few hobbyist websites where you can order equipment for raising moths, which mostly seem for educational / aesthetic purposes. My biggest question is, how can I determine what species to try to breed? I live in Burgundy in France in a moderately high-altitude, forested area. There are so many types of moth, I don't even know where to start learning about them.
If you want to tell me not to do this, I'd appreciate if you offer a suggestion for something else I could do instead along similar lines. Thank you
This is partly a symbolic gesture and partly an earnest attempt to try to give the local ecosystem a boost. If it works, I'll try to convince other people to do it too, maybe it can be a thing.
I find a few hobbyist websites where you can order equipment for raising moths, which mostly seem for educational / aesthetic purposes. My biggest question is, how can I determine what species to try to breed? I live in Burgundy in France in a moderately high-altitude, forested area. There are so many types of moth, I don't even know where to start learning about them.
If you want to tell me not to do this, I'd appreciate if you offer a suggestion for something else I could do instead along similar lines. Thank you
When a species has become rare, just breeding and releasing more of them usually isn't going to help much. It's mainly helpful in situations where something happened in the past to eliminate a species from an area but conditions have since gotten better. Introducing a fairly small number of wolves to Yellowstone National Park worked out well because there was plenty of good habitat for them and people had become willing to let wolves live there without trying to kill them all. Reintroducing captive-bred peregrine falcons in the U.S. was helpful because there were still good places for them to live. It was just that DDT had nearly wiped them out and once DDT was no longer in use the captive-bred birds were able to help the population start growing again.
But imagine if you tried to release wolves in, say, Connecticut. Or Burgundy. You wouldn't expect that to result a long-lasting healthy wolf population because those areas no longer have good wolf habitat. What's causing declining moth numbers in your area is probably an ongoing problem or set of problems that is only going to get worse in the coming years. If the habitat moths need is disappearing or people are using pesticides that harm them, adding more moths isn't going to fix those problems and the moths you release will find it just as hard to survive and reproduce as the ones that occur there naturally.
The number of moths you can raise and release isn't going to be enough to have a significant impact. But if you could release enough to have a real impact on the ecosystem, that might actually be worse. As you say, there are a lot of different types of moth. In my state, Vermont, there are over 2200 moth species. Vermont is about 3/4 the size of Burgundy. How many species live right in your local area? Who knows, but let's say it's only 100. You're not going to be able to raise all 100. Maybe you're only going to be able to raise one or two. If you artificially boost the numbers of those one or two species, how will that affect the whole ecosystem? What if one kind of bird or bat particularly likes to feed on the moths you raised? Will the numbers of that bird or bat increase? How will that affect other birds or bats? How will it affect the other things that bird or bat likes to eat? And what about the plants the larvae of that moth likes to eat? Will they have trouble competing against species that don't have as many caterpillars on them? Will that change which plants are most common? How will that affect all the things that eat those plants? The whole picture is pretty complicated and if you start messing with parts of it, the effects can be unpredictable. In reality, you're not going to be able to release enough moths to need to worry about any of that, but if you want to make a symbolic gesture you might as well do something that doesn't symbolize random, poorly thought-out changes to the ecosystem.
And how are you thinking of getting moths to breed? Collecting caterpillars from the wild? You should probably assume that it would take a while before you got all the kinks in your moth raising system worked out and had good success with it. If you collect a lot of caterpillars and then have trouble keeping them alive all the way to adulthood you could end up reducing your local population even more. Or are you thinking of buying caterpillars from somewhere else? It would be a bad idea to release some species that isn't even native to your area. Definitely don't do that. But even if it is a species found in your area, if you get individuals from somewhere else they may be genetically different and you could end up introducing new genes to your local population. Possibly genes that are less suited to local conditions.
So it's a nice idea and I get why you want to do it, but in the end it's probably not a really helpful thing to do. As far as what to do instead, preserving or creating habitat for moths and other wildlife is probably the best thing you could do. Maybe you could make changes on your own property, maybe you could try to get habitat improvement projects started on local public lands, maybe you could donate money to groups trying to preserve wildlife habitat.
posted by Redstart at 8:44 PM on September 24, 2021 [18 favorites]
But imagine if you tried to release wolves in, say, Connecticut. Or Burgundy. You wouldn't expect that to result a long-lasting healthy wolf population because those areas no longer have good wolf habitat. What's causing declining moth numbers in your area is probably an ongoing problem or set of problems that is only going to get worse in the coming years. If the habitat moths need is disappearing or people are using pesticides that harm them, adding more moths isn't going to fix those problems and the moths you release will find it just as hard to survive and reproduce as the ones that occur there naturally.
The number of moths you can raise and release isn't going to be enough to have a significant impact. But if you could release enough to have a real impact on the ecosystem, that might actually be worse. As you say, there are a lot of different types of moth. In my state, Vermont, there are over 2200 moth species. Vermont is about 3/4 the size of Burgundy. How many species live right in your local area? Who knows, but let's say it's only 100. You're not going to be able to raise all 100. Maybe you're only going to be able to raise one or two. If you artificially boost the numbers of those one or two species, how will that affect the whole ecosystem? What if one kind of bird or bat particularly likes to feed on the moths you raised? Will the numbers of that bird or bat increase? How will that affect other birds or bats? How will it affect the other things that bird or bat likes to eat? And what about the plants the larvae of that moth likes to eat? Will they have trouble competing against species that don't have as many caterpillars on them? Will that change which plants are most common? How will that affect all the things that eat those plants? The whole picture is pretty complicated and if you start messing with parts of it, the effects can be unpredictable. In reality, you're not going to be able to release enough moths to need to worry about any of that, but if you want to make a symbolic gesture you might as well do something that doesn't symbolize random, poorly thought-out changes to the ecosystem.
And how are you thinking of getting moths to breed? Collecting caterpillars from the wild? You should probably assume that it would take a while before you got all the kinks in your moth raising system worked out and had good success with it. If you collect a lot of caterpillars and then have trouble keeping them alive all the way to adulthood you could end up reducing your local population even more. Or are you thinking of buying caterpillars from somewhere else? It would be a bad idea to release some species that isn't even native to your area. Definitely don't do that. But even if it is a species found in your area, if you get individuals from somewhere else they may be genetically different and you could end up introducing new genes to your local population. Possibly genes that are less suited to local conditions.
So it's a nice idea and I get why you want to do it, but in the end it's probably not a really helpful thing to do. As far as what to do instead, preserving or creating habitat for moths and other wildlife is probably the best thing you could do. Maybe you could make changes on your own property, maybe you could try to get habitat improvement projects started on local public lands, maybe you could donate money to groups trying to preserve wildlife habitat.
posted by Redstart at 8:44 PM on September 24, 2021 [18 favorites]
Do you know if (or which) moths are declining where you are? Each species will have different *habitat*¹ (vegetation - eg intact forest, open forest, shrubland/heath etc, terrain, aspect...), but there will probably be a local assemblage of species with broadly similar 'preferences' for your locale.
All Europe is a human landscape (I live in NZ where this is less true for 20% of area). Traditionally your area was probably coppiced woodland with a patchwork *mosaic* of small fields. Modern agric., development, roads and drainage threatens this system and it's species.
You could look on the moths as a-canary-in-the-coalmine, a metric/proxy for deeper/wider ills. Fixing some of those things will help the moths, and the whole species web they engage with - including you. e.g;
are hedgerows being removed? - advocate for them, maybe take part in a hedgerow planting and highlight the issue; is industrial lighting messing up their lifeway - lobby council/region for insect-friendly lighting; is drainage removing wetland habitat? -advocate for Sustainable Drainage Systems with ponds, swales and appropriate planting. What is climate change doing locally to the moths? - what practical things can you do locally?
There is probably a local council/regional database of local threatened moth species e.g. a *Red list*.
I get what you're trying to do; I do it on a daily basis and sorting out what lives and what does not is a terrible feeling - every being needs protecting.
1 - anything with * * are words that will help you find info (at least in English). IDK where in Burgudy you are but there's a little info - scholar: "Bourgogne" France moth diversity woodland "plant species"
And ask more questions here as you go, and tell us what's happening.
posted by unearthed at 9:50 PM on September 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
All Europe is a human landscape (I live in NZ where this is less true for 20% of area). Traditionally your area was probably coppiced woodland with a patchwork *mosaic* of small fields. Modern agric., development, roads and drainage threatens this system and it's species.
You could look on the moths as a-canary-in-the-coalmine, a metric/proxy for deeper/wider ills. Fixing some of those things will help the moths, and the whole species web they engage with - including you. e.g;
are hedgerows being removed? - advocate for them, maybe take part in a hedgerow planting and highlight the issue; is industrial lighting messing up their lifeway - lobby council/region for insect-friendly lighting; is drainage removing wetland habitat? -advocate for Sustainable Drainage Systems with ponds, swales and appropriate planting. What is climate change doing locally to the moths? - what practical things can you do locally?
There is probably a local council/regional database of local threatened moth species e.g. a *Red list*.
I get what you're trying to do; I do it on a daily basis and sorting out what lives and what does not is a terrible feeling - every being needs protecting.
1 - anything with * * are words that will help you find info (at least in English). IDK where in Burgudy you are but there's a little info - scholar: "Bourgogne" France moth diversity woodland "plant species"
And ask more questions here as you go, and tell us what's happening.
posted by unearthed at 9:50 PM on September 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
Learning about the species around you, including the threatened ones, will guide you to how you can improve conditions for them; for example many species caterpillars will only feed on certain host plants. So if you plant those, you can then check them for signs of caterpillars to know you're helping. Many moths overwinter as pupae in dead leaves; keep your leaves natural instead of raking and burning, and encourage others to do the same. Many of these actions will help not only moths, but many other species and the overall environment as well.
posted by The otter lady at 10:07 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by The otter lady at 10:07 PM on September 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
You could always raise moths as a hobby, to learn more about the wildlife around you: find caterpillars and rear them through to adults. I don’t think it will do anything for moth populations, but you might find it rewarding.
In terms of things you can do: record the wildlife in your area and submit the records somewhere. I don’t know what the system is in France for doing it, but data has value. You can just take photos of insects around you and try to ID them (there are lots of resources online now), or you could run a moth trap and record the local moth species.
To support the local moth population, you can grow native species as foodplants. i.e. an exotic like azalea will support a handful of insect species, mainly exotics themselves, while species like oak and birch support hundreds of species. Even an ornamental achillea might support four or five different moth caterpillars.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:22 AM on September 25, 2021
In terms of things you can do: record the wildlife in your area and submit the records somewhere. I don’t know what the system is in France for doing it, but data has value. You can just take photos of insects around you and try to ID them (there are lots of resources online now), or you could run a moth trap and record the local moth species.
To support the local moth population, you can grow native species as foodplants. i.e. an exotic like azalea will support a handful of insect species, mainly exotics themselves, while species like oak and birch support hundreds of species. Even an ornamental achillea might support four or five different moth caterpillars.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:22 AM on September 25, 2021
In the book Nature's Best Hope by Doug Tallamy, he expresses that the best way to go about this is to plant the trees that host the insects. For northeastern USA, the area he writes about, the trees that support the most species of insect are oaks and native cherry. I think for your area you will need to find local information about which trees and plants are the most supportive and plant those.
posted by xo at 5:51 AM on September 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by xo at 5:51 AM on September 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Light pollution is also an enormous part of why moth populations are declining. Getting your neighbours to turn their porch lights off at night or better yet getting your town to adopt Dark Sky friendly ordinances will have a great deal of impact.
posted by congen at 6:50 AM on September 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by congen at 6:50 AM on September 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
I am working on supporting butterflies and moths in my own region by planting plants that are native to my region and are host plants for caterpillars or good sources of nectar for butterflies and moths, avoiding the use of pesticides in my yard, and leaving some leaf litter to give insects a good place to overwinter. I have gotten a lot of help learning how to do this by joining a couple of local gardening groups that specialize in habitat restoration to support pollinators. There are probably some local organizations that could help you get started in your area, too.
Here's an example of what I am talking about: comfrey, which is native to Europe, is a host plant for scarlet tiger moths. If you plant comfrey in your garden, you will be providing scarlet tiger moth caterpillars with food. If you add a few more native European plants that bloom at various times throughout the spring, summer, and fall, you will be providing scarlet tiger moths, and other moths, with a continuous source of nectar. Since some moths feed primarily at night, it would be a good idea to plant some flowers that bloom at night.
If you don't have room for a large garden, even a few moth-friendly native plants in pots can help. If you don't have your own space to garden, you can volunteer with or donate to organizations that work to create pollinator gardens in public spaces like parks.
posted by BlueJae at 7:46 AM on September 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Here's an example of what I am talking about: comfrey, which is native to Europe, is a host plant for scarlet tiger moths. If you plant comfrey in your garden, you will be providing scarlet tiger moth caterpillars with food. If you add a few more native European plants that bloom at various times throughout the spring, summer, and fall, you will be providing scarlet tiger moths, and other moths, with a continuous source of nectar. Since some moths feed primarily at night, it would be a good idea to plant some flowers that bloom at night.
If you don't have room for a large garden, even a few moth-friendly native plants in pots can help. If you don't have your own space to garden, you can volunteer with or donate to organizations that work to create pollinator gardens in public spaces like parks.
posted by BlueJae at 7:46 AM on September 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
My region has a couple programs, variously governmental and nonprofit, with local suggestions for how to plant a healthy bug- and bird- friendly garden. Some of the clever ones have very attractive signs you earn which I think are really to explain to passersby that you aren’t just untidy with your pruning.
Even if there isn’t already such a group in Burgundy, you could put up a sign once you have a plan.
posted by clew at 9:05 AM on September 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Even if there isn’t already such a group in Burgundy, you could put up a sign once you have a plan.
posted by clew at 9:05 AM on September 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you still read this, I know about this, because my land is a protected butterfly habitat. BlueJay and clew have it right. I get money to encourage and protect the plants the butterflies depend on for their existence. Typically, the butterflies and moths that are endangered are those that depend on one specific plant. And typically, the plants that have become rare during the past fifty years are those that need a very specific environment that is threatened by industrialised agriculture. It might be bogs, that are drained and plowed for grain production. Or areas naturally poor in nutrients that are artificially fertilised. Or hedgerows that are cut down in order to combine small fields into larger fields that can be worked with large machines.
In this sad state of the world, private gardens can become safe havens for insects if they are designed to mimic some of the conditions of their former natural biotopes. The first time I found a few of the flowers "my" butterflies need, it wasn't in the fields I have been trying to return to their original state since the mid-00s, but in the garden of a little cottage I rent out which is kept at a very minimal level of maintenance (grass cut once a year, no fertiliser). The damage of industrial agriculture will probably take a long time to undo.
posted by mumimor at 10:05 AM on September 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
In this sad state of the world, private gardens can become safe havens for insects if they are designed to mimic some of the conditions of their former natural biotopes. The first time I found a few of the flowers "my" butterflies need, it wasn't in the fields I have been trying to return to their original state since the mid-00s, but in the garden of a little cottage I rent out which is kept at a very minimal level of maintenance (grass cut once a year, no fertiliser). The damage of industrial agriculture will probably take a long time to undo.
posted by mumimor at 10:05 AM on September 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
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