International marriage COVID-style
August 15, 2021 8:02 PM Subscribe
My dear friend, P, is currently in the U.S. and is a U.S. citizen. His partner, A, is an Italian in Italy. They had hoped to get married in the U.S. in a couple weeks. But, because of COVID, A can’t enter the U.S. without first spending two weeks somewhere else. Kind folks of MeFi, does anyone know whether it would be doable for them to wed in Mexico or Canada, or where to look to start figuring it out?
P and A have been living in Berlin for several years. They finally planned to marry in Denmark in May of 2020, a move that would have helped P improve his visa status. Instead, they have been in a special kind of COVID hell, unable to see each other for months because of their different citizenships and because P got stuck in Turkey where he was waiting out the time until he could renter the Schengen area.
A couple months ago, P came back to the States to get vaccinated. They planned to have A come over in September so they could get married. A is a doctor and has limited time off. Since he has to go somewhere for two weeks before he can enter the U.S., they are wondering if they could marry in Mexico or Canada, but they aren’t even sure where to start with researching the viability of either idea. I don’t know anything helpful, but offered to post here to see if anyone had any first hand experience or resources to share. Thanks!
P and A have been living in Berlin for several years. They finally planned to marry in Denmark in May of 2020, a move that would have helped P improve his visa status. Instead, they have been in a special kind of COVID hell, unable to see each other for months because of their different citizenships and because P got stuck in Turkey where he was waiting out the time until he could renter the Schengen area.
A couple months ago, P came back to the States to get vaccinated. They planned to have A come over in September so they could get married. A is a doctor and has limited time off. Since he has to go somewhere for two weeks before he can enter the U.S., they are wondering if they could marry in Mexico or Canada, but they aren’t even sure where to start with researching the viability of either idea. I don’t know anything helpful, but offered to post here to see if anyone had any first hand experience or resources to share. Thanks!
Is "he has to go somewhere for two weeks before he can enter the US" really true? According to the CDC website, P just needs proof of a negative COVID test three days before flying. There's no quarantine requirement for people who are vaccinated.
If the goal of getting married is to obtain a CR1 visa for A, I don't see any advantage of doing it in Mexico or Canada. Marriage doesn't immediately grant A the right to stay in the US, and IME the more countries are involved in your visa application, the more complicated things will be, especially if it's a country that neither P nor A is a resident of. It would be easier to go for a K-1 fiancé visa. The application process takes time - my spouse and I have just gone through the IR1 process and it took a year - but there's a good chance that COVID restrictions will be lifted by then, and if they're not, then there's a good chance P's visa will exempt him from any restrictions that are in place.
posted by neushoorn at 11:52 PM on August 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
If the goal of getting married is to obtain a CR1 visa for A, I don't see any advantage of doing it in Mexico or Canada. Marriage doesn't immediately grant A the right to stay in the US, and IME the more countries are involved in your visa application, the more complicated things will be, especially if it's a country that neither P nor A is a resident of. It would be easier to go for a K-1 fiancé visa. The application process takes time - my spouse and I have just gone through the IR1 process and it took a year - but there's a good chance that COVID restrictions will be lifted by then, and if they're not, then there's a good chance P's visa will exempt him from any restrictions that are in place.
posted by neushoorn at 11:52 PM on August 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Sorry, I mixed up the initials in my previous answer. A is the one who would need a negative COVID test to fly, and who would eventually receive a visa to enter and stay in the US. If P and A want to marry as soon as possible for reasons other than obtaining a US visa for A, then it might be easier for them to meet in an EU country that allows same-sex marriage, such as the Netherlands. Right now, Italy is on the list of safe countries, which means A would not need to show proof of vaccination, proof of recovery, or a negative test result to enter. The US is also on the list of safe countries, which means P would only need to show proof of vaccination.
posted by neushoorn at 12:20 AM on August 16, 2021
posted by neushoorn at 12:20 AM on August 16, 2021
Response by poster: I’m sorry, my question skipped over important details - they are trying to figure out the fastest/easiest place for them to marry without P needing to go back to the EU until after they are married and he can apply for a visa based on that. P cannot currently enter the EU on a tourist visa. A is not trying to get a visa to stay in the US.
I guess my question is really about how difficult/time consuming it is for a for a foreign couple to marry in either Mexico or Canada right now because A has limited time off. They were unable to marry earlier in Denmark because they couldn’t get an appointment because of COVID; they couldn’t marry in Germany because they couldn’t get the appointments they needed on a schedule that worked for A because COVID reduced available appointments; and they couldn’t marry in Italy for a complicated reason related to A’s pursuit of German citizenship.
Thanks and sorry for being unclear!
posted by ElizaMain at 3:27 AM on August 16, 2021
I guess my question is really about how difficult/time consuming it is for a for a foreign couple to marry in either Mexico or Canada right now because A has limited time off. They were unable to marry earlier in Denmark because they couldn’t get an appointment because of COVID; they couldn’t marry in Germany because they couldn’t get the appointments they needed on a schedule that worked for A because COVID reduced available appointments; and they couldn’t marry in Italy for a complicated reason related to A’s pursuit of German citizenship.
Thanks and sorry for being unclear!
posted by ElizaMain at 3:27 AM on August 16, 2021
For an Italian citizen ("A") they wouldn't need a visa-- they just need a ESTA clearance for short holiday to the USA (up to 90 days), it's a 15 minute process in general, or is there a problem with that?
posted by Static Vagabond at 6:12 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Static Vagabond at 6:12 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I still don't think it makes sense to introduce another country into the mix if P is already in the US. Getting married in Clark County, NV is pretty easy and flights from major European airports to Las Vegas are usually relatively cheap. The marriage license requirements for US citizens and non-citizens are the same. The Marriage License Bureau is open from 8 AM to midnight, seven days a week. You fill out an online application beforehand and then just walk in to get the license. They could then immediately get married at a place like the Little Vegas Chapel; they have plenty of availability, which can be checked on their website.
posted by neushoorn at 6:17 AM on August 16, 2021
posted by neushoorn at 6:17 AM on August 16, 2021
[Jan 25, 2021] “it is in the interests of the United States to take action to restrict and suspend the entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants [ie tourists?], of noncitizens of the United States (“noncitizens”) who were physically present within the Schengen Area, the United Kingdom (excluding overseas territories outside of Europe), the Republic of Ireland, the Federative Republic of Brazil, and the Republic of South Africa during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States.”
It is super confusing, there’s so much contradictory/old information without adding same sex marriage into the mix.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:26 AM on August 16, 2021
It is super confusing, there’s so much contradictory/old information without adding same sex marriage into the mix.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:26 AM on August 16, 2021
There’s still a pandemic travel ban on EU to USA (the OP seems aware of this, but I’m posting this because many posters are apparently not). No specified end date, people seem to be hoping for mid-fall.
posted by advil at 6:28 AM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by advil at 6:28 AM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Yes, thank you TWinbrook8 and advil for clarifying another point I wasn’t clear about. The reason for my question is the ongoing travel ban for folks traveling to the US from within the EU. A will be traveling from the EU and has limited time off so his inability to enter the US without first spending 14 days somewhere else is the problem. Again, sorry my question was so confused. I have no experience with this stuff other than through my friend P.
posted by ElizaMain at 6:52 AM on August 16, 2021
posted by ElizaMain at 6:52 AM on August 16, 2021
Here's the situation as I've understood it:
P, I hope it's OK to call him Peter for ease of keeping track, is American and lives in the US. Peter is fully vaccinated.
A, similarly I hope it's OK to call him Arturo, is Italian and lives in Italy. Arturo's vaccination status is unclear.
Arturo, because he is not a US citizen, cannot enter the US right now from Italy without first spending at least 14 days in a country outside the Schengen area. The US does not (yet) recognise vaccination as conferring sufficient protection to allow direct entry from Italy or any other Schengen country.
Arturo cannot take that much time off work, and therefore needs the wedding to take place in a country that he can enter directly. (Presumably he also needs to avoid onerous quarantine requirements at the end of either international journey.)
Peter cannot enter the EU on a tourist visa right now, so the country cannot be in the EU. Canada and Mexico are attractive options.
So you need to know whether it will be possible for them to arrange a wedding (soonish) in either of those countries, given that neither of them is a citizen or resident of either country.
With regard to "where to look to start figuring it out"... I have no relevant personal experience, but I found this British website whose purpose is to help people plan an overseas wedding (they're hoping, through one of the companies that advertise on the site... it is not an impartial or official resource). They don't cover Mexico, but they do have some information about Canada, which while not up-to-date does at least offer a starting point, in terms of what sort of considerations your friends would need to take into account.
They also have some more general COVID-specific advice, which led me to the official Canadian border requirements page. Looks to me as if right now, Peter can enter Canada, but Arturo can't. "Until the specific dates [tentative date for fully vaccinated non-US foreign nationals is the 7th of September], foreign nationals who come to Canada for non-essential reasons will be turned away at the border." So... no guarantees, and it definitely wouldn't work out if they wanted to get married tomorrow, but sometime next month isn't out of the question, at least in terms of both partners being allowed to enter the country.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 7:25 AM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
P, I hope it's OK to call him Peter for ease of keeping track, is American and lives in the US. Peter is fully vaccinated.
A, similarly I hope it's OK to call him Arturo, is Italian and lives in Italy. Arturo's vaccination status is unclear.
Arturo, because he is not a US citizen, cannot enter the US right now from Italy without first spending at least 14 days in a country outside the Schengen area. The US does not (yet) recognise vaccination as conferring sufficient protection to allow direct entry from Italy or any other Schengen country.
Arturo cannot take that much time off work, and therefore needs the wedding to take place in a country that he can enter directly. (Presumably he also needs to avoid onerous quarantine requirements at the end of either international journey.)
Peter cannot enter the EU on a tourist visa right now, so the country cannot be in the EU. Canada and Mexico are attractive options.
So you need to know whether it will be possible for them to arrange a wedding (soonish) in either of those countries, given that neither of them is a citizen or resident of either country.
With regard to "where to look to start figuring it out"... I have no relevant personal experience, but I found this British website whose purpose is to help people plan an overseas wedding (they're hoping, through one of the companies that advertise on the site... it is not an impartial or official resource). They don't cover Mexico, but they do have some information about Canada, which while not up-to-date does at least offer a starting point, in terms of what sort of considerations your friends would need to take into account.
They also have some more general COVID-specific advice, which led me to the official Canadian border requirements page. Looks to me as if right now, Peter can enter Canada, but Arturo can't. "Until the specific dates [tentative date for fully vaccinated non-US foreign nationals is the 7th of September], foreign nationals who come to Canada for non-essential reasons will be turned away at the border." So... no guarantees, and it definitely wouldn't work out if they wanted to get married tomorrow, but sometime next month isn't out of the question, at least in terms of both partners being allowed to enter the country.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 7:25 AM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
There's a huge destination wedding industry in Mexico, so it's certainly doable for foreigners to get married there, and this seems like the kind of question a Mexican destination wedding planner would be able to answer easily! Like, pick a couple of cities in Mexico that are easy for both A & P to get to (direct flights or whatever) and google "destination wedding planner $CITY." Then pay some nice person to take care of the details.
posted by mskyle at 7:30 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mskyle at 7:30 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, my spouse and I were married in Toronto in a day -- City Hall for the license and someone to marry us that afternoon. They definitely allow same-sex weddings. But I would hurry up and elope and do a wedding wedding later; the open/closed COVID situation is changing daily.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:01 AM on August 16, 2021
posted by DarlingBri at 8:01 AM on August 16, 2021
Have you looked into whether proxy marriage (performed in the US or elsewhere) would work for their needs? It seems some countries have also become more open to them/recognizing them due to covid.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:25 AM on August 16, 2021
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:25 AM on August 16, 2021
In particular, Kansas seems to be a compelling option for some people looking do marriage by proxy.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:42 AM on August 16, 2021
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:42 AM on August 16, 2021
For an Italian citizen ("A") they wouldn't need a visa-- they just need a ESTA clearance for short holiday to the USA (up to 90 days), it's a 15 minute process in general, or is there a problem with that?
posted by Static Vagabond at 2:12 PM on August 16
ESTA is suspended at the moment due to the pandemic. The USA has prohibited entry to anyone who has been in a Schengen country (which includes Italy) in the 14 days before entry.
And even if ESTA wasn't suspended, ESTA isn't available for people coming to the US to marry. If A was intending to stay in the USA, he'd need a K-1 visa. I'm not sure what visa he'd need if he was coming to the USA just to marry and then leave again to return to Berlin.
It seems the options are either for A to spend 14 days in a non-prohibited country before entering the USA to get married (subject to the right visa) or for P and A to marry in another country where they are both allowed to enter.
There was a scenario on 90-Day Fiance where a woman from France and her American fiance were trying to meet in Mexico, say for 14 days and then fly to the USA but she was detained by the Mexican authorities and deported. They tried again, with her going to Serbia for 14 days before flying to the USA but it didn't work out either. So there are risks in trying to do this, depending on the countries involved. You might want to speak to an immigration lawyer.
posted by essexjan at 8:48 AM on August 16, 2021
posted by Static Vagabond at 2:12 PM on August 16
ESTA is suspended at the moment due to the pandemic. The USA has prohibited entry to anyone who has been in a Schengen country (which includes Italy) in the 14 days before entry.
And even if ESTA wasn't suspended, ESTA isn't available for people coming to the US to marry. If A was intending to stay in the USA, he'd need a K-1 visa. I'm not sure what visa he'd need if he was coming to the USA just to marry and then leave again to return to Berlin.
It seems the options are either for A to spend 14 days in a non-prohibited country before entering the USA to get married (subject to the right visa) or for P and A to marry in another country where they are both allowed to enter.
There was a scenario on 90-Day Fiance where a woman from France and her American fiance were trying to meet in Mexico, say for 14 days and then fly to the USA but she was detained by the Mexican authorities and deported. They tried again, with her going to Serbia for 14 days before flying to the USA but it didn't work out either. So there are risks in trying to do this, depending on the countries involved. You might want to speak to an immigration lawyer.
posted by essexjan at 8:48 AM on August 16, 2021
How about the UK? You do need a Marriage Visitor Visa, but both the US and Italy are on the Amber list, so no quarantine requirements as long as both parties are vaccinated, just a second-day test. It's a popular place for gay marriages for Polish people, seems to be fairly easy.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 8:48 AM on August 16, 2021
posted by I claim sanctuary at 8:48 AM on August 16, 2021
Can you share why P is unable to enter the whole EU on a tourist visa? Asking because there's a lot of country-specific variation in rules for both US->EU travel and feasibility of having a mixed-citizenship/mixed-residency marriage performed.
posted by 4rtemis at 11:48 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by 4rtemis at 11:48 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: There's also the option of both of them meeting in Gibraltar. You register, get married, and get a marriage certificate soon after.
I believe no visa is required for either of them to enter and marry. It is where I got married.
posted by vacapinta at 1:14 PM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I believe no visa is required for either of them to enter and marry. It is where I got married.
posted by vacapinta at 1:14 PM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
My understanding is that P has to wait out the 180 day Schengen ban on re-entering.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:22 PM on August 16, 2021
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:22 PM on August 16, 2021
Response by poster: P and I thank you for all your creativity! P is now looking into logistics for Gibraltar (not currently in the Schengen area), so I marked that as the best answer, but really appreciate everyone who voluntarily waded into the morass of international marriage with the added complication of COVID travel restrictions!
posted by ElizaMain at 2:41 PM on August 16, 2021
posted by ElizaMain at 2:41 PM on August 16, 2021
Came in to say, they should look into Gibraltar, i know someone (one partner UK Citizen, other US Citizen) for whom this worked in spring, after multiple other options became unfeasable, through both covid and brexit and complications because both reside actually (and legally) in EU. They hired a (UK) agency to arrange everything (flight, Hotel, paperwork, registrars Office etc).
posted by 15L06 at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2021
posted by 15L06 at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2021
Response by poster: Thank you again to everyone who took the time to post an answer. My friend was able to get married in Gibraltar today.
posted by ElizaMain at 6:24 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ElizaMain at 6:24 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:25 PM on August 15, 2021