What would you think if your doctor cupped your cheek?
May 17, 2021 12:22 AM   Subscribe

I find this situation very confusing and am wondering what you would all think about what was going on in my appointments.

My doctor and I get along very well and sometimes I think we are naturally close. We have a very good rapport--to the point where I think there is a lot of touching and even some flirtation happening. There have been numerous things that make me wonder, like when he touches my hand very gently for a little too long, squeezes my shoulder, rubs my back, stands over me close to me while looking down at me, complimenting me, etc. I could go on, but lots of things like that.

This last appointment he had to examine my eye briefly. Then he wiped gently under my eye as if he was wiping away a tear with his thumb (he did this twice) and cupped the side of my face oh-so-gently in his hand. Whoa!!

Was he hitting on me? What would you think if a doctor did this to you?

We are around the same age and I REALLY like him (in fact I have a crush on him). I don’t want to have confirmation bias or be assuming something that isn’t there, but to have a man softly caress my face makes me wonder.

To clarify, I don’t mind that he did this but I am wondering what you think his intentions might be. So, what would you tell your friend/sister/daughter if she relayed the same story to you?

P.S. I hope this qualifies as a real question and not chat. Thanks in advance :)
posted by MarnieSrpings to Human Relations (41 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Holy smokes, that's not appropriate at all. Yikes.

Charitably, even if he is also attracted to you, he should know that he can't date you as long as you're his patient. Abusing that power dynamic by flirting, excessive touching, and now this move out of a Disney flick?

I'd tell you to find another doctor, or at a minimum have a second person present next time you see him.
posted by basalganglia at 12:39 AM on May 17, 2021 [69 favorites]


Yeah everything you describe is inappropriate for a doctor-patient relationship, not just the cheek cupping thing. Find another doctor. If you want to date him, ask him out after you have stopped being his patient.
posted by Athanassiel at 12:49 AM on May 17, 2021 [30 favorites]


This is super inappropriate on his part and an abuse of his position of power. You need to find a new doctor if you want to date him. I would find a new doctor ASAP if I were you whether you date him or not.
In my work I physically touch people for a variety of reasons and I would never, ever do the kind of things you're describing with a client or patient, regardless of how much I liked being in their company or how flirtatious their rapport with me might be or how attractive I might think they are.
posted by zdravo at 12:53 AM on May 17, 2021 [17 favorites]


Also if he’s behaving like this to you, there’s a good chance he behaves like that with other patients
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 12:58 AM on May 17, 2021 [83 favorites]


Yeah, if I were dating this person, knowing his questionable boundaries, I'd wonder how he was treating his other patients.
posted by amtho at 1:17 AM on May 17, 2021 [15 favorites]


This is ghastly. I think you should find a new provider if you can.
posted by eirias at 1:44 AM on May 17, 2021 [8 favorites]


I don't think people here are going to be able to express how out of bounds this is. This should not be happening AT ALL. This is disturbing.

A professional, well-boundried doctor would keep his feelings (and hands!) to himself outside of required medical examination. He might even suggest that you find another doctor if things were getting a little too close.

Of course, there is good bedside manner, But that is NOT this. Bedside manner is more empathetic listening, spending time with patients, asking questions about them, providing brief emotional support if need be using words. Maybe in a really emotional moment (like say, you tell your doctor that you are struggling with grief after a family member passed, or if you are facing a medical condition that is fatal and your doctor just told you) that person might hold your hand for a moment or two. MIGHT. There would be no flirting, no rubbing of backs, no cupping of cheeks, no wiping away tears! NONE.


There are rules and LAWS about this stuff, because of power dynamics! He is your doctor!

Find another doctor immediately- I would find this behavior disturbing, and it would make me NOT trust him. Period. Like stuff like that should only happen if you'd done all the things to make this as okay as possible, finding another phsycian- and after a period of time away (this can vary depending on laws though!)then going on actual dates, that sort of thing. You can't have someone as a professional in your life and then move to date them.

Cut your losses and run.

And if you desire report him to his professional board. This is NOT okay.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:49 AM on May 17, 2021 [31 favorites]


If this happened to me I would think that I had run into a shitty inappropriate doctor, who quite likely was abusing his position with multiple patients.

I would find another doctor and report him to every authority I could think of. And I’d white-knuckle it through the crush until it went away, reminding myself if necessary that behaving this way with a patient tells me something about his ethics that I would not want in a partner.
posted by Stacey at 4:15 AM on May 17, 2021 [27 favorites]


During my first pregnancy, I encountered not one but two male doctors who commented on things like my appearance and my medical history (I was told I was a “good girl” because, in the questionnaire I filled out as a new patient, I reported that I hadn’t engaged in behaviors they considered high risk). One of them tickled my feet while I was in a hospital bed. One of them kissed me on the cheek at the end of an appointment. One of those doctors was easy to ditch—I got a fabulous new OBGYB. The other was a specialist, and I desperately needed his office’s support when we discovered the pregnancy was high-risk.

That second one didn’t answer my questions directly, sent a resident to deliver not-great news, and talked over me quite a bit. But he smiled a lot. He called me “cutie” or “sweetie” or something like that. I tried to tell him when I had concerns, but I couldn’t make him hear me.

Our baby came too early and died shortly after birth. Honestly, in the extensive reading I did in the wake of that loss, I learned that my condition really is difficult to prevent in a first pregnancy (or was at the time, at least). Maybe it wouldn’t have changed the outcome if he had actually viewed me as an equal rather than as as cute. But maybe it would have. I can say with certainty that it’s been thirteen years, and I doubt I’ll ever be able to put aside my concerns about whether it could have been prevented if I’d had a specialist who was more attentive to my condition.

All of this is to say that I think it’s unlikely that you’ll get the best medical care from someone who is a unable or unwilling to see you as a patient first. I’d get another doctor.

If you have a crush on him, you can tell him that as you let him know you’re leaving his practice. It might make for a romantic moment. That said, honestly, I kind of doubt that a person who has been trained to be a doctor has cast aside all of their training to act inappropriately with only one patient in their entire career. Does it make sense that, in your limited interactions, he would decide “rules be damned! I love this woman!”? I think it’s more likely that this is his standard operating procedure, and he’s inflicting it on patients who don’t have crushes on him, too. I don’t hear anything in your query that indicates that you are thinking of reporting him but, wow, yeah—he should be reported.
posted by TEA at 4:21 AM on May 17, 2021 [45 favorites]


I think that if he didn't behave this way, you wouldn't have a crush on him. Humans like to be liked. Women* especially are primed, via numerous and overlapping social angles, to pick up on and return affection cues. This doctor's actions and behavior, in themselves, set you up for a rapport of inappropriate and non-professional feelings.

If you were my friend/sister/daughter I would tell you to run from this creep and report him. His actions are exactly the sort of thing where I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the news a few years from now, with worse accusations against him.

*Since you ask about advice for sisters/daughters I've assumed you're a woman. But my advice holds if you're both men.
posted by cocoagirl at 4:22 AM on May 17, 2021 [19 favorites]


All my spidey senses tingled when I read your question.
This is far, far outside the realm of okay. I am 100% sure he's doing this to other patients. Please find a different doctor ASAP.
posted by Nieshka at 4:37 AM on May 17, 2021 [8 favorites]


Was he hitting on me?

Probably.

What would you think if a doctor did this to you?

I would think he was on a power trip and that he was violating all the ethical codes he'd been taught and agreed to as a licensed professional. I would think, "this is a guy who gets off on abusing his power and manipulating people." I would report him, because while you might enjoy this kind of thing, I guarantee you he's also had patients like me who leave his office feeling dirty and skeeved out and less inclined to trust doctors in general, and male doctors specifically.

We're kind of groomed to be flattered when someone shows interest in us, but in this case it's more like "a doctor who seems to prey on his patients seems to be preying on me."
posted by trig at 5:28 AM on May 17, 2021 [21 favorites]


This is appallingly inappropriate beyond anything I can even convey in words. The last doctor who behaved like this around me eventually sexually assaulted me when I was under anaesthesia, and did the same to enough women to finally lose his license. Doctors like this are why I do not see male doctors for anything where I might at any point be unconscious or medically incapacitated in their presence.

Please, please understand that his unethical behavior is neither normal or nor acceptable by the tenets of his profession in any way, and is also an extremely clear sign that you should not become involved with him romantically. The level of casual impropriety here is stark and awful. There is simply no way that you are the only person with whom he behaves like this, and just because you find it exciting and flattering does not mean that anyone else he is creeping on will feel the same. This is not a man to trust with your medical needs or your relationship needs.
posted by tiny plastic sockpuppet at 5:34 AM on May 17, 2021 [29 favorites]


Just reading the question without clicking into More made my stomach flip. Please get yourself out of this situation. Trust your instinct that it's not professional - your doctor MUST be professional with you.
posted by wellred at 6:30 AM on May 17, 2021 [6 favorites]


Find another doctor. If you want to date him, ask him out after you have stopped being his patient.

I think this is what Athanassiel meant, but just to underline: Find another doctor, and if you want to date that doctor or any future doctor, ask him out after you've stopped being his patient. Do not ask this doctor out, now or ever.
posted by babelfish at 6:33 AM on May 17, 2021 [11 favorites]


I see that from your perspective, this might be, as you suggest, about his intentions, as the focus is (in the situations you describe) on single persons – you, and him – and their actions and reactions.
Fine, if it's all that dandy to you, look for another doctor, start dating this doctor, and as soon as you're close enough, read him the riot act on professional behavior.

But the question ought to have been about his impulse control. His obvious lack of it would be for me a solid "crush be damned, move on, and fast", like others said.

And the concern that he might have this kind of shtick ready for not only one patient kind of does the rest, doesn't it? You don't want to end up in a position where you are made to wonder what he's doing whenever he's working and you're not there to wonder about his intentions.
posted by Namlit at 6:50 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]


You really, for the safety of others, really should report this behavior to your state's medical board.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:00 AM on May 17, 2021 [14 favorites]


I was always a huggy kind of guy, I used to do cheek kisses and stand close to people, it was just how I was. Then about 10 years ago I started really hearing story after story about women who just did not feel comfortable around some guys, and I thought, "But I'm not doing it to be creepy! Ergo I'm not in the wrong! Some women have told me they don't like that and I don't act that way with them!" And it took a while for me to really internalize that my intentions didn't matter, that #notallmen didn't matter, what mattered was that sometimes a woman feels uncomfortable because of that behavior, and it was probably better if I stopped acting that way by default. I mean, even my kids had their limits on closeness: when they were young, they would climb on me and want to be next to me ALL THE TIME, then they hit their teenage years and there are some days they get completely aggro when I move in their general direction and physical contact is a no-no.

All that is to say, I've changed my default behavior as a result of listening to story after story of people saying how much they dislike certain forms of physical contact, and I'd look highly askance at a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL who still acts this way.
posted by disconnect at 7:11 AM on May 17, 2021 [12 favorites]


I had a doctor who was touch-y and offered hugs and it felt appropriate; people need contact and touch can be therapeutic. But I never thought he was flirting. Your instinct is almost certainly accurate, his behavior is over the line, and he should not be flirting with patients. Assess the care you're getting, and if it's quite good, stay with the doc, but pull away. If there are repercussions from establishing boundaries, change doctors. Doctors have a lot of power over patients and a doctor has to have excellent boundaries.
posted by theora55 at 7:19 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]


Switch doctors and do not date him. You do not want to date this level of creepy inappropriate. Assume he is doing this with other patients, too, and would continue to do it with other patients if you were dating him.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:40 AM on May 17, 2021 [9 favorites]


I’m just glad it was the cheek on your face, now that I’ve read the question…

Generally, I would recommend to point blank ask him his intentions, or ask him out, and risk the potential embarrassment. In this setting it’s impossible to intuit whether there’s something genuine as you are both kind of a captive audience (he’s working for you, and you’re on the subordinate end of a traditional power dynamic between doctor and patient.)

In this case, though, I have to agree with the others that you are likely not the only person he does this to. And yes it’s unprofessional conduct.
posted by michaelh at 8:44 AM on May 17, 2021 [1 favorite]


So, what would you tell your friend/sister/daughter if she relayed the same story to you?

I would tell them that no matter how attractive this doctor was, the fact that he has such terrible judgment as to act in such an unprofessional way, violating the doctor-patient relationship, means they they should run far, far away.

And report him to his licensing board.
posted by gaspode at 8:47 AM on May 17, 2021 [8 favorites]


This is an appalling breach of professional ethics. Maybe this guy is not generally a creep, maybe you are his One True Luv (doubtful though), but for sure he is totally lacking in judgment, personal discipline, and professionalism. There are ways to navigate the situation within the bounds of the profession’s code of ethics and I am very sure his licensing body has a lawyer whose job it is to advise on these matters. If he had any sense at all he would have gone down that path well before reaching the point of cupping the side of your face (ew).
posted by HotToddy at 8:48 AM on May 17, 2021 [8 favorites]


I work in an office that handles such things, and this doctor would be investigated and disciplined if we were made aware of this behavior.

Putting on my non-professional hat...this man is not dateable, even if you are no longer his patient.
posted by BlueBear at 9:50 AM on May 17, 2021 [11 favorites]


Think through something for me.

Say you did start a relationship with him. And then, weeks or months or heaven forbid, years later, it's confirmed that he's behaved this way with lots of patients. Maybe even outright sexually assaulted some. Perhaps even teens or children.

And you find out because someone finally had the courage to report him.

How will you feel?
Especially knowing you could have stopped it NOW?

I'm not sure I've ever seen a thread on here with such a strong consensus. That ought to be a pretty good indicator you should listen.
I'm sorry. It's got to hurt to hear this. But please, do something about this guy for those that aren't strong enough to speak up.
posted by stormyteal at 10:29 AM on May 17, 2021 [6 favorites]


I quit seeing an acupuncturist after he made an inappropriate comment about my eyes and had his hand on me too long after a painful needle.
posted by brujita at 10:47 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]


I feel that most of the responses here are to a question you didn't ask.
There are laws to protect people from abuses of authority. You'll have to make up your own mind about whether touching your cheek is such an abuse, and whether your doctor is on a power trip and does this to every woman patient, or whether he really likes you, and you alone.
If you have a crush on him, I'd say tentatively ask him. As with any relationship, be prepared to be hurt. But don't let the idea that this could be a bad thing put off checking. People do actually meet and fall in love, and not under circumstances prescribed by caution and regulatory agencies.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 11:37 AM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]


Change doctors immediately. You can then ask the guy out if you are set on it. If you were my sister I would tell you this guy is a creep and the chances are very high he does this to plenty of other people. I'd say I think you'd be crazy/a sucker for punishment to persue this.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:52 PM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]


If you told me just this story about him holding your face and wiping under your eye after an examination of your eye, I would not jump to the conclusion that he is interested in you. Your crush on the doctor is so apparent, even before you mentioned it, and if you said this to me using this same language I'd wonder if you were projecting.

If you told me this story in conjunction with the other stuff about the touching and flirting, I would think that this doctor was being an inappropriate tease but I would still not conclude that he is actually romantically interested in you.

If it happened to me, to be honest I probably would have changed doctors already. I don't want or need that kind of intimate Venn diagram in my life.
posted by sm1tten at 2:29 PM on May 17, 2021 [1 favorite]


A lot of folks have covered how inappropriate it is for the doctor to have been flirting with you. I am chiming in to add that it would also be wildly inappropriate for you to be flirting with him. It is unclear from your question whether you have taken any steps to indicate your feelings to him, but, again, it would be inappropriate to do so as long as you are his patient.

In general, it is best to avoid flirting with a professional who is interacting with you purely in the course of doing their job. Just in case you are interested in thinking about this issue more from this angle, here is a post at Captain Awkward about the same type of situation.
posted by ASlackerPestersMums at 4:45 PM on May 17, 2021 [7 favorites]


I get the sense by your phrasing of the question that you want to hear that you are special, that you have a special connection with this doctor. You are asking people to interpret his behavior as a signal of his interest motivated by your unique qualities. Something special, unique and amazing is happening to you and you want to have it confirmed.

That’s how predators work. They make you feel special and make you believe your connection is real, unique and undeniable.

It’s not, and you’re not, and he’s not. Even if he did have an attraction to you, this is the grossest and most inappropriate, risky and disrespectful way to handle it. What would I think? I’d think I needed to get far away from a doctor with such incredibly poor boundaries and disregard not only for me but for his own license.

Listen to what people are saying here. Either stop being his client and see if there is a real adult relationship possible here, in a straightforward way, or blow the whistle and run.
posted by Miko at 9:34 PM on May 18, 2021 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: I am trying to take in what you all are saying. Based on what I have written, do you think it's possible I've misunderstood anything? I have tried to describe things accurately, but many of the things I have described were done in a way that was plausibly deniable. So confusing to interpret!

The cheek cupping definitely did happen exactly as I described. Is that truly inappropriate behavior? Is it ON the line or is it just clearly over the line? Could he have just been trying to be supportive??? I am so confused. And it's made worse by the feelings I have developed for this person. Plus, he runs so hot and cold. Sometimes it's not clear to me whether he is trying to encourage me or discourage me because he seems to vacillate between those two.

I welcome any further thoughts you care to share.
posted by MarnieSrpings at 6:32 AM on May 20, 2021


Plus, he runs so hot and cold.

He is! Your doctor! He is never supposed to run hot!
posted by babelfish at 7:38 PM on May 20, 2021 [8 favorites]


do you think it's possible I've misunderstood anything

You haven’t misunderstood that he’s making overtures. He is: he’s trying to generate sexual interest from you.

But you may have misunderstood the nature of an appropriate doctor-patient relationship. Everything you describe here is not ON the line but WAY OVER the line.

If you feel confused, that’s part of it. The doctor’s being abusive, and generating confusion is part of what’s enjoyable for him. That confusion makes you vulnerable and more accessible to him, unless you create a boundary.

Right now you seem to be feeling confused, half flattered, curious, emotionally engaged, hopeful, singled out - and all that is collaborating with his agenda. It’s understandable but it could really end up hurting you. Please find another doctor ASAP and report this guy.

I’m sorry - you’re not supposed to be dealing with this. He’s acting totally unprofessional. It’s likely he tries stuff on a lot of people but only presses forward when he finds someone who doesn’t resist and seems to be open to his advances.
posted by Miko at 9:12 PM on May 20, 2021 [5 favorites]


Plausible deniability and running hot and cold are exactly what I would expect of a person in a position of authority abusing their role. His behavior is inappropriate and truly over the line. Maybe not any one thing but taken as a whole, as a pattern? The way he behaves with you is not okay, the confusion and distress it is causing you is not okay, and if you were my friend I'd encourage you to find a new doctor ASAP.

Even if we tried to assume the best and say there are no bad intentions, the fact of the matter is still that confusion and distress has found its way into your patient-doctor relationship and that's not good for your medical care. You need a doctor you can trust, whose motives you won't be constantly second-guessing. Please find a new doctor!

I'm very sorry you've been put in this untenable position. This is part of the reason doctors are supposed to err on the side of not doing the kinds of things you're talking about - there should be absolutely no reason for doubt or speculation on your part about the nature of your patient-doctor relationship.
posted by Stacey at 6:49 AM on May 21, 2021 [4 favorites]


Also, how often are you seeing this guy? It kind of sounds like you see him all the time, which....well, I hope you're not truly ill. If he's having you in constantly for visits for no "real reason"? Yes, he's awful, run fast and far.
posted by tristeza at 10:30 AM on May 24, 2021 [2 favorites]


I have tried to describe things accurately, but many of the things I have described were done in a way that was plausibly deniable. So confusing to interpret!

Plausible deniability is the mark of grooming and of much sexual harassment.

When I saw your question, before I had read that you were possibly interested in him (which is a whole other angle than what I anticipated), I was going to say (and now based on your response, I think is relevant again): Every single time a man has touched me in a possibly-innocent way -- on the arm or hand, my hair or head -- and I have felt uncomfortable but then I told myself "it's just your arm... lots of people touch your arm and it doesn't mean anything... it's just different cultural norms... " or whatever and i let it go and ignored it, it has eventually progressed to unambiguous sexual harassment or assault. If it feels like it's potentially sexual to you, trust your instinct. Plausible deniability is just a way of testing the waters.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:22 PM on May 24, 2021 [5 favorites]


Plausible deniability is just a way of testing the waters.

Seconding that. This is it works: a creep tries this stuff on someone with clear boundaries. They immediately say “whoa!” Or “what are you doing?” Or “please don’t do that” or “I’m uncomfortable with that.” He apologies, makes some excuse and knows not to push it with that person again. If he encounters passive receptivity, uncertainty, confusion, etc., then he’ll push onward.

What are your boundaries for how a professional can touch you in a consultation?
posted by Miko at 9:33 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Right now you seem to be feeling confused, half flattered, curious, emotionally engaged, hopeful, singled out...

That sums up my feelings perfectly! I feel the wrongness of it all, but also (if I am to be honest) the thrill and the chemistry . I understand the ethical issues, the boundary issues. I hear loud and clear that many of you think this is an abuse of power. It is very helpful to at least know that I am not crazy, that this isn't normal behavior in a doctor's office. But, I still have an attraction to him that is hard for me to deny or ignore.
posted by MarnieSrpings at 12:11 AM on July 13, 2021


Response by poster: Also, how often are you seeing this guy? It kind of sounds like you see him all the time, which....well, I hope you're not truly ill. If he's having you in constantly for visits for no "real reason"? Yes, he's awful, run fast and far.

Just to answer questions I overlooked (not sure if anyone is still following this thread but I am all ears to any further feedback), I see him about every 4-6 months. At one point, due to some health issues I was seeing him more frequently.
posted by MarnieSrpings at 12:14 AM on July 13, 2021 [1 favorite]


I still have an attraction to him that is hard for me to deny or ignore

Well, sure, you can admit an attraction to yourself and just not act on it outwardly in any way. People of course do this all the time with inappropriate attractions or because of their relationship agreements.

If you can't let it rest, I suggest you find a different medical provider, call him up as a general citizen and make clear you are no longer a patient or a client, and ask him out and see what happens.
posted by Miko at 5:16 PM on July 13, 2021 [2 favorites]


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