Would this be a dealbreaker for you?
April 25, 2021 3:36 AM Subscribe
Last night, after an evening out drinking, I used my boyfriend's phone to look something up as mine had run out (with his permission). I saw some things that really spooked me, we had a massive row about it and I ended things quite dramatically. I'm now trying to work out whether I acted too rashly, or whether in fact this was a reasonable reaction (if somewhat dramatised by alcohol). Please tell me what you'd do.
I'm female, 36. Boyfriend 42. We've been together for 7 months and were talking very seriously about our future together, moving in, having children etc. So this has really pulled the rug from under my feet.
I was on his chrome app reading an article and I pressed something accidentally which made the screen disappear; I don't have an apple phone and don't really know how they work but swiped across as I thought it might come back (as it does with mine).
An app appeared (I can't remember if it was the whole symbol or just the name) but it was for finding people to have threesomes with. I guess this kind of raised my suspicion (I'm generally very trusting of him and have never had any reason to doubt his trustworthiness or indeed be tempted to check his phone).
I then kind of instinctively (and drunkenly) opened instagram (I know this was bad) and looked at his messages. I'd noticed a few times that whenever he showed me something on instagram the first stories that came up would be of young, bikini clad massive-boobed instagram models. I thought it was a bit creepy of him to be looking at them a lot but hey, it's really no different to porn which I have no issue with. I did though have a hunch that he messaged these women, because he had accidentally showed his messages before and I saw them. I kind of ignored it as I didn't really want to know and felt it was probably before we were together etc. However, in my drunken state I looked, and he had been sending emojis, comments and even a creepy voice note saying someone looked good in a bikini - whilst we've been seeing eachother. Not only do I find this behaviour odd and creepy, especially for a man his age, but I also don't like that he did it while we were together.
I wouldn't, however think it was the end of the world if he had admitted to it and said sorry and that he had been insensitive and wouldn't do it again. Instead, when I immediately confronted him about the app and the messages, he told me off for 'policing' him, said he didn't think he'd done anything wrong and was just 'passing on compliments to a friend of a friend' (aka they\re not random women, so it's ok. They ARE random women). He also said he did't even have the threesome app on his phone, and searched for it - he was right. So I was confused by why it came up, and I asked him to show me what was in it when he downloaded it to put my mind at ease, and also said I wanted to see what he had written to women whilst we were together.
He then made a show of downloading the threesome app, going through the first logging on stage and then stopped and said 'see? I don't even have an account' whilst also refusing to click the 'login to facebook' button. I said that I know it seems over the top, but as it had come up and I'd seen these messages while we were together I felt I needed to see inside the app, and if he didn't show me I felt he had something to hide and it would be the end of our relationship. He still refused to show me, whilst also saying he loves me / shouldn't have to show me / don't do this, we need to work this out etc.
Then he went to the toilet for a while. I told him I knew what he was doing, deleting things, and he said he wasn't. When he came out I said again that I wanted to see what he had been messaging women, and he bought up his messages where had deleted a couple of threads. He then said it was because I'll 'analyse everything' and 'make something out of nothing' etc, making me feel like I had an issue.
I have never once in our relationship been suspicious or jealous of him. I am definitely over analytical (see: this thread) but it's not like I've ever 'policed' him before. I was drunk, followed a weird instinct, and then reacted when I found things I was uncomfy with.
I told him to leave in no uncertain terms, after he kept trying to persuade me not to end things. He went home and sent me a very resigned-sounding, rambling voicenote which was just completely emotionless, saying I was the first person he'd trusted to meet his friends and his parents in over a decade, that I had meant so much to him, but also 'maybe you're right, maybe this wasn't working, we tried, maybe you deserve better'. I'm sure it was partly out of pride and wanting to save face, but there was no remorse for hurting my feelings, or breaking my trust - just, 'I should have listened better and realised you wouldn't like me doing that'.
I just feel so blindsided and can't really believe this has happened. I also feel stupid it's all been so dramatic and that I ended a reasonable-length relationship over something like this. Interested to know how you would react if this were your serious boyfriend. Did I overreact?
I'm female, 36. Boyfriend 42. We've been together for 7 months and were talking very seriously about our future together, moving in, having children etc. So this has really pulled the rug from under my feet.
I was on his chrome app reading an article and I pressed something accidentally which made the screen disappear; I don't have an apple phone and don't really know how they work but swiped across as I thought it might come back (as it does with mine).
An app appeared (I can't remember if it was the whole symbol or just the name) but it was for finding people to have threesomes with. I guess this kind of raised my suspicion (I'm generally very trusting of him and have never had any reason to doubt his trustworthiness or indeed be tempted to check his phone).
I then kind of instinctively (and drunkenly) opened instagram (I know this was bad) and looked at his messages. I'd noticed a few times that whenever he showed me something on instagram the first stories that came up would be of young, bikini clad massive-boobed instagram models. I thought it was a bit creepy of him to be looking at them a lot but hey, it's really no different to porn which I have no issue with. I did though have a hunch that he messaged these women, because he had accidentally showed his messages before and I saw them. I kind of ignored it as I didn't really want to know and felt it was probably before we were together etc. However, in my drunken state I looked, and he had been sending emojis, comments and even a creepy voice note saying someone looked good in a bikini - whilst we've been seeing eachother. Not only do I find this behaviour odd and creepy, especially for a man his age, but I also don't like that he did it while we were together.
I wouldn't, however think it was the end of the world if he had admitted to it and said sorry and that he had been insensitive and wouldn't do it again. Instead, when I immediately confronted him about the app and the messages, he told me off for 'policing' him, said he didn't think he'd done anything wrong and was just 'passing on compliments to a friend of a friend' (aka they\re not random women, so it's ok. They ARE random women). He also said he did't even have the threesome app on his phone, and searched for it - he was right. So I was confused by why it came up, and I asked him to show me what was in it when he downloaded it to put my mind at ease, and also said I wanted to see what he had written to women whilst we were together.
He then made a show of downloading the threesome app, going through the first logging on stage and then stopped and said 'see? I don't even have an account' whilst also refusing to click the 'login to facebook' button. I said that I know it seems over the top, but as it had come up and I'd seen these messages while we were together I felt I needed to see inside the app, and if he didn't show me I felt he had something to hide and it would be the end of our relationship. He still refused to show me, whilst also saying he loves me / shouldn't have to show me / don't do this, we need to work this out etc.
Then he went to the toilet for a while. I told him I knew what he was doing, deleting things, and he said he wasn't. When he came out I said again that I wanted to see what he had been messaging women, and he bought up his messages where had deleted a couple of threads. He then said it was because I'll 'analyse everything' and 'make something out of nothing' etc, making me feel like I had an issue.
I have never once in our relationship been suspicious or jealous of him. I am definitely over analytical (see: this thread) but it's not like I've ever 'policed' him before. I was drunk, followed a weird instinct, and then reacted when I found things I was uncomfy with.
I told him to leave in no uncertain terms, after he kept trying to persuade me not to end things. He went home and sent me a very resigned-sounding, rambling voicenote which was just completely emotionless, saying I was the first person he'd trusted to meet his friends and his parents in over a decade, that I had meant so much to him, but also 'maybe you're right, maybe this wasn't working, we tried, maybe you deserve better'. I'm sure it was partly out of pride and wanting to save face, but there was no remorse for hurting my feelings, or breaking my trust - just, 'I should have listened better and realised you wouldn't like me doing that'.
I just feel so blindsided and can't really believe this has happened. I also feel stupid it's all been so dramatic and that I ended a reasonable-length relationship over something like this. Interested to know how you would react if this were your serious boyfriend. Did I overreact?
when I immediately confronted him about the app and the messages, he told me off for 'policing' him
Buh-bye. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.
posted by flabdablet at 3:48 AM on April 25, 2021 [27 favorites]
Buh-bye. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.
posted by flabdablet at 3:48 AM on April 25, 2021 [27 favorites]
Congratulations, you just dodged a bullet.
posted by MexicanYenta at 3:51 AM on April 25, 2021 [75 favorites]
posted by MexicanYenta at 3:51 AM on April 25, 2021 [75 favorites]
People who are innocent don’t message strange women, deny ever having apps to facilitate it, refuse to log in and show you, delete messages etc. Your boyfriend is accusing you of making something out of nothing...there’s an awful lot of something there. If he was innocent, he’d have no issue giving you full access to the phone instead of skulking off to the bathroom to remove evidence.
Not only did you do the right thing by ending it, just to be sure, go and get an STD check. Sorry to have to say this but you have no idea if he actually followed though on meeting women. You’re under the impression that you’re over reacting by breaking up with him, I actually think you’re under reacting and if he deleted messages, there may have been concrete evidence that he indeed cheated. You just don’t know. I’m so sorry. Your gut was right and it’s protecting you.
posted by Jubey at 4:05 AM on April 25, 2021 [33 favorites]
Not only did you do the right thing by ending it, just to be sure, go and get an STD check. Sorry to have to say this but you have no idea if he actually followed though on meeting women. You’re under the impression that you’re over reacting by breaking up with him, I actually think you’re under reacting and if he deleted messages, there may have been concrete evidence that he indeed cheated. You just don’t know. I’m so sorry. Your gut was right and it’s protecting you.
posted by Jubey at 4:05 AM on April 25, 2021 [33 favorites]
Other people have addressed his response/evasiveness, but I would add:
I'm generally in favor of (ethical) porn for anyone who wants it (myself, partners, people who want to make and sell it) but for me personally the way he's interacting with these instagram people would be an indicator that he doesn't approach sex/connection/relationships the same way as I do and I'm generally looking for partners who have the same approach as me. I'm not really interested in anyone trying to limit or change their behavior around that for me even if they agree or offer to, because it feels like a kind of fundamental thing I want to have in common with partners. YMMV on that.
posted by needs more cowbell at 4:29 AM on April 25, 2021 [38 favorites]
I'm generally in favor of (ethical) porn for anyone who wants it (myself, partners, people who want to make and sell it) but for me personally the way he's interacting with these instagram people would be an indicator that he doesn't approach sex/connection/relationships the same way as I do and I'm generally looking for partners who have the same approach as me. I'm not really interested in anyone trying to limit or change their behavior around that for me even if they agree or offer to, because it feels like a kind of fundamental thing I want to have in common with partners. YMMV on that.
posted by needs more cowbell at 4:29 AM on April 25, 2021 [38 favorites]
If he had enough backbone to be honest with you about the threesome app & the IG messages to random women, then at least you’d have the chance to talk about it & see whether there was any way you could be ok with it. But with all the avoidant gaslighting bullshit, he’s dug his hole a lot deeper.
You did the right thing.
posted by rd45 at 4:32 AM on April 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
You did the right thing.
posted by rd45 at 4:32 AM on April 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
I also feel stupid it's all been so dramatic and that I ended a reasonable-length relationship over something like this
I think it's pretty normal to feel self-doubt after any big decision (see: buyer's remorse, seller's remorse, etc.) Especially one where you let go of something rather than keeping it. In my experience, at least, that feeling is just something that's going to happen regardless of the wisdom of the decision.
(I don't think you overreacted.)
posted by trig at 5:15 AM on April 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
I think it's pretty normal to feel self-doubt after any big decision (see: buyer's remorse, seller's remorse, etc.) Especially one where you let go of something rather than keeping it. In my experience, at least, that feeling is just something that's going to happen regardless of the wisdom of the decision.
(I don't think you overreacted.)
posted by trig at 5:15 AM on April 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
People who are innocent don’t message strange women, deny ever having apps to facilitate it,
There are plenty of relationships in which all of this is fine. The issue is that this was not discussed or agreed in this relationship, and having been found to be doing these things, he wasn't honest enough to bring these choices to the table so everyone could make informed decisions.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:38 AM on April 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
There are plenty of relationships in which all of this is fine. The issue is that this was not discussed or agreed in this relationship, and having been found to be doing these things, he wasn't honest enough to bring these choices to the table so everyone could make informed decisions.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:38 AM on April 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
I'm going to point something out - he let you use his phone. Every other time I've read an AskMe about "I found something on my partner's phone" there was some snooping involved, but your boyfriend flat-out let you use his phone, even with that stuff on there.
I'm pointing that out because: if he wanted to keep that stuff under wraps, he either would not have let you use his phone, or he would have tried to hide it quick first. Which suggests that either he is too thick to realize he'd get caught, or that he wanted you to "accidentally" find it, or that he just doesn't think it's a problem.
None of those things are a good look for him. You did nothing wrong, you just borrowed his phone and found out stuff that was a dealbreaker for you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:42 AM on April 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
I'm pointing that out because: if he wanted to keep that stuff under wraps, he either would not have let you use his phone, or he would have tried to hide it quick first. Which suggests that either he is too thick to realize he'd get caught, or that he wanted you to "accidentally" find it, or that he just doesn't think it's a problem.
None of those things are a good look for him. You did nothing wrong, you just borrowed his phone and found out stuff that was a dealbreaker for you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:42 AM on April 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
His actions follow a common pattern designed to get what he wants, but without the inconvenience of treating you as a actual person with normal needs and boundaries who can be trusted to negotiate a relationship with grace and fairness.
What it looks like is him...
- denying reality (lying about his actions)
- centering you as the problem (you're "policing him" and "analyzing everything")
- covering his tracks so he can cement the reality that you're crazy or controlling (halfway logging in, deleting messages)
- bargaining to return to the status quo (persuading you not to end the relationship)
- moving himself into the victim role (he "trusted you to meet his friends", you "meant so much to him") i.e., your self-centered actions have stolen a major emotional milestone from him; he was wrong to trust you
- doubling down on ending things ("maybe you're right, maybe this wasn't working") because he perceives your ending to be a bluff. If it is, his options improve: he can either reinstate the status quo (get back together) or end things from a place of power (if you offer to get back together, he can decline)
I ended things with a multi-year partner after finally seeing this pattern and understanding my role in keeping it going. In my opinion, this pattern both compounds any original issue (salacious texts to other women in your case) and eclipses it, because it is very likely the way he'll deal with any issue in which he perceives a risk to not getting he wants. Again, it's a shortcut so he doesn't have to deal with you as an actual person. So no, you're not overreacting to step away from a 42 year old man whose default is to treat you this way.
posted by cocoagirl at 6:44 AM on April 25, 2021 [49 favorites]
What it looks like is him...
- denying reality (lying about his actions)
- centering you as the problem (you're "policing him" and "analyzing everything")
- covering his tracks so he can cement the reality that you're crazy or controlling (halfway logging in, deleting messages)
- bargaining to return to the status quo (persuading you not to end the relationship)
- moving himself into the victim role (he "trusted you to meet his friends", you "meant so much to him") i.e., your self-centered actions have stolen a major emotional milestone from him; he was wrong to trust you
- doubling down on ending things ("maybe you're right, maybe this wasn't working") because he perceives your ending to be a bluff. If it is, his options improve: he can either reinstate the status quo (get back together) or end things from a place of power (if you offer to get back together, he can decline)
I ended things with a multi-year partner after finally seeing this pattern and understanding my role in keeping it going. In my opinion, this pattern both compounds any original issue (salacious texts to other women in your case) and eclipses it, because it is very likely the way he'll deal with any issue in which he perceives a risk to not getting he wants. Again, it's a shortcut so he doesn't have to deal with you as an actual person. So no, you're not overreacting to step away from a 42 year old man whose default is to treat you this way.
posted by cocoagirl at 6:44 AM on April 25, 2021 [49 favorites]
You did the right thing, imo.
I would also encourage an std check.
posted by dobbs at 7:00 AM on April 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
I would also encourage an std check.
posted by dobbs at 7:00 AM on April 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
If he had been willing to show you and innocently believed what he was doing was fine, that would be one thing.
If he had apologized and said this was waking him up to the fact that he was acting inappropriately, that would be one thing.
But the way he's acting is neither of those, and for me the lack of integrity would be a dealbteaker unless things changed.
posted by slidell at 8:05 AM on April 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
If he had apologized and said this was waking him up to the fact that he was acting inappropriately, that would be one thing.
But the way he's acting is neither of those, and for me the lack of integrity would be a dealbteaker unless things changed.
posted by slidell at 8:05 AM on April 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
This comes up a lot on Chumplady.com. Invariably it turns out that the partner has been actively cheating.
Don't let him gaslight you into thinking he's the victim instead of the offender. Trust your gut an stay well away.
posted by Enid Lareg at 8:09 AM on April 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
Don't let him gaslight you into thinking he's the victim instead of the offender. Trust your gut an stay well away.
posted by Enid Lareg at 8:09 AM on April 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
But you weren’t “policing” him. Trying to find out the truth about what his boundaries are re: interacting other women, and then deciding whether you can accept that in a relationship, is a crucial part of any adult relationship!
1-his interactions with other women are an issue for you. Every person on earth gets to decide for themselves what they’re comfortable with. You can’t force him to behave a certain way—and you weren’t trying to. But you do get to say, hey, this isn’t right for me. I personally agree that a man in his 40s in a committed relationship leaving voice messages for young thirst traps is gross and wouldn’t want to be with someone like that, but that’s totally your call.
2-his reaction—to go on the offensive—should be a problem for you too. Because it indicates he’s not responsible, honest, empathetic, self-aware, or mature. If he was any of those things he’d have a frank discussion with you where he’d own his actions and investigate whether and how to fix things (ideally after everyone sobered up.)
Also I don’t believe what you discovered is the extent of his behavior. Run, my friend, far away.
posted by kapers at 8:51 AM on April 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
1-his interactions with other women are an issue for you. Every person on earth gets to decide for themselves what they’re comfortable with. You can’t force him to behave a certain way—and you weren’t trying to. But you do get to say, hey, this isn’t right for me. I personally agree that a man in his 40s in a committed relationship leaving voice messages for young thirst traps is gross and wouldn’t want to be with someone like that, but that’s totally your call.
2-his reaction—to go on the offensive—should be a problem for you too. Because it indicates he’s not responsible, honest, empathetic, self-aware, or mature. If he was any of those things he’d have a frank discussion with you where he’d own his actions and investigate whether and how to fix things (ideally after everyone sobered up.)
Also I don’t believe what you discovered is the extent of his behavior. Run, my friend, far away.
posted by kapers at 8:51 AM on April 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
I agree you didn’t overreact. Apart from the more serious breaches in trust and his poor reaction to being called out, the dream is not a 40 something guy who sends thirsty DMs to insta models. It’s just so uncool.
posted by Dwardles at 9:17 AM on April 25, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by Dwardles at 9:17 AM on April 25, 2021 [16 favorites]
He went home and sent me a very resigned-sounding, rambling voicenote which was just completely emotionless, saying I was the first person he'd trusted to meet his friends and his parents in over a decade, that I had meant so much to him, but also 'maybe you're right, maybe this wasn't working, we tried, maybe you deserve better'. I'm sure it was partly out of pride and wanting to save face, but there was no remorse for hurting my feelings, or breaking my trust - just, 'I should have listened better and realised you wouldn't like me doing that'.
I agree with what you did, I think the only thing I might have done differently is sobered up and dumped his ass the next day so that there was no doubt that I was doing it with a completely rational mind. I am sorry he turned into a big jerk when you were upset with him for a pretty normal reason. I mean hey many of us have been in situations where we've had a lot to drink and overreacted about a smaller thing, but this guy handed you his phone, with another app open and then got agitated, defensive and downright insulting instead of shifting to "Yeah this is why I did what I did and I realize that is a big breach of trust and let's talk tomorrow when we're both sobered up because I'd like to fix this' which, to my mind, would have been a more normative reaction.
Also I find that "grade my report card" behavior super insulting. Like "You can look through all the stuff I've let you look through and see that you are wrong and I am right...." Like, by the time you're like "Hey you have this threesome web page open, do we need to talk about that?" is his opportunity to come clean and have a conversation, not to act like you're being some sort of spy because you saw an open app or web page on his phone (seems like you saw another open browser window with that apps' page open, not the app itself). I agree with everyone else: you dodged a bullet, this guy was an uncool joker.
posted by jessamyn at 9:29 AM on April 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
I agree with what you did, I think the only thing I might have done differently is sobered up and dumped his ass the next day so that there was no doubt that I was doing it with a completely rational mind. I am sorry he turned into a big jerk when you were upset with him for a pretty normal reason. I mean hey many of us have been in situations where we've had a lot to drink and overreacted about a smaller thing, but this guy handed you his phone, with another app open and then got agitated, defensive and downright insulting instead of shifting to "Yeah this is why I did what I did and I realize that is a big breach of trust and let's talk tomorrow when we're both sobered up because I'd like to fix this' which, to my mind, would have been a more normative reaction.
Also I find that "grade my report card" behavior super insulting. Like "You can look through all the stuff I've let you look through and see that you are wrong and I am right...." Like, by the time you're like "Hey you have this threesome web page open, do we need to talk about that?" is his opportunity to come clean and have a conversation, not to act like you're being some sort of spy because you saw an open app or web page on his phone (seems like you saw another open browser window with that apps' page open, not the app itself). I agree with everyone else: you dodged a bullet, this guy was an uncool joker.
posted by jessamyn at 9:29 AM on April 25, 2021 [12 favorites]
Just like dating someone for 7-months is long enough to have been trusted to meet their friends and family, it's also long enough to expect to be trusted with information like, "I know it might seem dumb, but I really enjoy digitally flirting with young women on IG." So yeah, you're not overreacting.
posted by coffeecat at 11:06 AM on April 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 11:06 AM on April 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
Oh my goodness, I'm so glad you're free of this person. Totally you dodged a bullet.
posted by shadygrove at 11:13 AM on April 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by shadygrove at 11:13 AM on April 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Every couple needs to be very clear about what is okay, and where the line is re "cheating." It doesn't work to just assume they know what your standards are, or that your idea of fidelity is the same as theirs. Then there's this other thing that happens a lot: one partner does things they know would bother their SO but rationalizes that they "don't count." Example: "Well, so there was some sexy talk....but that's not going to do any harm." If both of you don't spell out your own principles, you end up in a situation like what you have now.
I'm not saying that either of you was right or wrong in feeling angry. But you both had made assumptions about what was acceptable vs inappropriate, and that's why there was a clash.
If you two love each other and want to stay together, you need to discuss all this with specifics. What does monogamy mean to each of you? Is flirting okay? Sexy talk with strangers? Kissing? Also, it's good for both to agree that "I won't do anything I wouldn't want you to do"...no double standard.
posted by wryly at 11:45 AM on April 25, 2021
I'm not saying that either of you was right or wrong in feeling angry. But you both had made assumptions about what was acceptable vs inappropriate, and that's why there was a clash.
If you two love each other and want to stay together, you need to discuss all this with specifics. What does monogamy mean to each of you? Is flirting okay? Sexy talk with strangers? Kissing? Also, it's good for both to agree that "I won't do anything I wouldn't want you to do"...no double standard.
posted by wryly at 11:45 AM on April 25, 2021
That man would've ruined your life. You did well!
posted by hz37 at 2:25 PM on April 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by hz37 at 2:25 PM on April 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes, it would be a deal breaker for me:
1. His reaction does not inspire confidence in any long term relationship success--adults need some ability to navigate conflict and have challenging conversations.
2. His acceptance of you breaking up with him reveals quite a bit of his character. When the going gets tough, he gets going.
There is an old saying: "it is okay to look at the menu even if you are not going to order anything" as an excuse or justification for checking people out, looking at porn, etc.. But, a grown man who messages instagram hotties? Pathetic.
But, I'm old and came up before the internet, so others might have a different view.
I think you can do better.
Good luck
posted by rhonzo at 4:05 PM on April 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
1. His reaction does not inspire confidence in any long term relationship success--adults need some ability to navigate conflict and have challenging conversations.
2. His acceptance of you breaking up with him reveals quite a bit of his character. When the going gets tough, he gets going.
There is an old saying: "it is okay to look at the menu even if you are not going to order anything" as an excuse or justification for checking people out, looking at porn, etc.. But, a grown man who messages instagram hotties? Pathetic.
But, I'm old and came up before the internet, so others might have a different view.
I think you can do better.
Good luck
posted by rhonzo at 4:05 PM on April 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
I realised recently, once the initial grief was gone, I've never regretted a break-up. There's no-one I would call "THE ONE (who got away)". I suspect that, given enough time, you will be relieved with the swiftness of this one - from discovery to end in a matter of hours, instead of a long drawn out "maybe we can make it work, if he ever keeps his promises..."
Disengage, and once (if necessary), possessions are returned, it is not your job to make him a. Feel better about being an arsehole or b. Teach how not to be an arsehole. No contact.
posted by b33j at 7:36 PM on April 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Disengage, and once (if necessary), possessions are returned, it is not your job to make him a. Feel better about being an arsehole or b. Teach how not to be an arsehole. No contact.
posted by b33j at 7:36 PM on April 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just here to say I'm sorry. It's hard to be a in a great relationship and then have this shit come up. These things take time to reveal themselves. If you really feel he's the one for you and he's willing to go to therapy and you want to work through residual trust issues for the next 5-10 years, that's always an option.
posted by gillianr at 10:00 PM on April 25, 2021
posted by gillianr at 10:00 PM on April 25, 2021
Apart from everything else in all the good advice you’re getting, “maybe you deserve better” is some serious manipulative garbage. That’s a bid for you to cave in and assuage his suffering self-esteem out of pity and compassion and some sense that he must be just so wonderful because he cares about what you deserve. But don’t do it. Guess what; he’s right, you do deserve better.
posted by Miko at 10:29 PM on April 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Miko at 10:29 PM on April 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I know you're right. The shock is starting to wear off (although I do still feel mildly sick) and the sense of sadness is starting to come in. For the first time ever really, I was feeling safe and secure with someone and like I had a really solid foundation to go and live my best life (and I have been!). I hadn't been happy in a really long time and I think he was a big part of why I was. I just find dating so tiring. I have no problem meeting guys, but guys I like are rare and then ones without big emotional issues at this age really do seem rare. I thought I'd found a bit of an anomaly - kind, caring, emotionally available, great job in a field that interests me, stable financially, same values, wanted to be a stay at home dad, very good looking and Oxbridge educated! But no, seems there is a good reason why he's single too.
He has been in touch to say he loves me / doesn't want to give up/ can we go for a walk to discuss etc. I think I do want to go, maybe in a week or so once this has sunk in, for closure as I've noticed when I don't have this people linger in my head for ages. A small part of me wonders if he would have acted so shiftily if he wasn't so drunk, I wasn't so hysterical (he looked kinda scared) and if he didn't already think that I overanalyse. But what's done is done and my trust is broken. There is no turning back now, sadly.
posted by flimflamflop at 1:30 AM on April 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
He has been in touch to say he loves me / doesn't want to give up/ can we go for a walk to discuss etc. I think I do want to go, maybe in a week or so once this has sunk in, for closure as I've noticed when I don't have this people linger in my head for ages. A small part of me wonders if he would have acted so shiftily if he wasn't so drunk, I wasn't so hysterical (he looked kinda scared) and if he didn't already think that I overanalyse. But what's done is done and my trust is broken. There is no turning back now, sadly.
posted by flimflamflop at 1:30 AM on April 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't know what to tell u about the Instagram messaging... I mean, I get messages from married men all the time and they're pretty benign. I think most men believe instagram messages with women they could never hook up with are *by nature* benign because they'll never go anywhere: the equivalent of honking at a woman in the street. It doesn't make it right, but it happens.
Your account *did* remind me of a time when my jealous ex-husband was "certain" that I was "cheating" on him because he was convinced he saw Match.com on my phone. It was a banner ad. I'd never been on nor cared about match.com.
The amount of effort it took me to convince him that I was not in fact on match.com and that what he was likely seeing was an ad, was ridiculous. Our marriage did not last, and his jealousy and trenchant refusal to see me as monogamous (which I was) certainly added a nail to the coffin.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 4:33 AM on April 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Your account *did* remind me of a time when my jealous ex-husband was "certain" that I was "cheating" on him because he was convinced he saw Match.com on my phone. It was a banner ad. I'd never been on nor cared about match.com.
The amount of effort it took me to convince him that I was not in fact on match.com and that what he was likely seeing was an ad, was ridiculous. Our marriage did not last, and his jealousy and trenchant refusal to see me as monogamous (which I was) certainly added a nail to the coffin.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 4:33 AM on April 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
A small part of me wonders if he would have acted so shiftily if he wasn't so drunk, I wasn't so hysterical
It's so easy to go down this path, but don't. You made the right decision with the information you have. It's important for long-term couples to know how their own bad reactions and poor conditions can set each other off. It's possible for otherwise compatible people to bring out the worst in each other and those relationships don't tend to be healthy and sustainable. I'm sorry it ended this way, but his pattern and excuses are familiar to me, too. You dodged a sneaky bullet.
posted by juliplease at 8:33 AM on April 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's so easy to go down this path, but don't. You made the right decision with the information you have. It's important for long-term couples to know how their own bad reactions and poor conditions can set each other off. It's possible for otherwise compatible people to bring out the worst in each other and those relationships don't tend to be healthy and sustainable. I'm sorry it ended this way, but his pattern and excuses are familiar to me, too. You dodged a sneaky bullet.
posted by juliplease at 8:33 AM on April 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Women are taught not to trust their gut instinct, and are taught not to form opinions unless we have solid proof, are taught to always give men the benefit of the doubt. These are societal gaslight tactics. I understand that you feel the need to be certain and justified, but I do not. I've spent too much of my life waiting until I got certainty when I just could have trusted myself and moved on sooner. The same thing seems to be cropping up everywhere with the MeToo movement, men who women swore were creeps but were still loved because there was no "proof", only to find out they are, in fact, just as terrible as we've said all along.
So, that being said, this guy is probably a misogynist, a cheater, and a liar. You are not overreacting. You could "what-if" about plausible deniability, and ways to excuse his actions until the cows come home, OR you could just thank yourself for protecting you, and be happy when you find a better partner. You are the most reliable source of judgement about what you need.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:20 AM on April 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
So, that being said, this guy is probably a misogynist, a cheater, and a liar. You are not overreacting. You could "what-if" about plausible deniability, and ways to excuse his actions until the cows come home, OR you could just thank yourself for protecting you, and be happy when you find a better partner. You are the most reliable source of judgement about what you need.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:20 AM on April 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
sorry to double post but I just read your update:
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:23 AM on April 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
and if he didn't already think that I overanalyseThis was him laying the foundation for mental manipulation. This is not him noticing a fault in you. there was no way this was going to turn out different, because this guy is a bad guy. The future you are mourning doesn't exist, I'm so sorry.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:23 AM on April 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Do not marry a man who evades, hides and lies when called on his shit. Do not have children with a man who evades, hides and lies when called on his shit. Do not seriously date a man who evades, hides and lies when called on his shit.
You did the right thing. Please do not crumble and go back. That will just be permission for him to do it again.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:47 AM on April 25, 2021 [102 favorites]