Oldish dog suddenly nipping: cause for concern?
January 19, 2021 6:15 PM Subscribe
First-time dog owner seeking advice from the more experienced on whether a vet visit's in order
We have a Shih Tzu who just turned 11. We bought him from a breeder when he was 4 months old. He's lived with us, in the same house, all that time.
Our son was about 5 when we brought the dog home, so 15 now. They're both pretty gentle specimens. Our son has bonded more with the dog as the years have gone on. He'll scratch the dog where he (the dog) likes, and present his face to him, which the dog will lick repeatedly, which squicks me out but we're not here to talk about *my* problems. The dog has had a pretty healthy history, with his most notable issue being corneal abrasions. I don't remember observing any incident suggesting he's visually impaired. Other than that, his jumping (e.g., onto the couch) has gotten to be a less sure thing lately, and he started wiping out on stairs often enough starting a year or so ago that we just carry him up them now.
Twice in the last couple months, the dog has given our son what I'd categorize as pretty hard nips. I didn't witness either. The first just barely broke the skin. It happened when our son went to pick him up. The dog was staring at the wall behind his food and water bowls (not new behavior, btw), and he saw our son walk in the room but wouldn't have expected he would get picked up. Our son said the turn to bite was a pretty fast move. The dog's never shown a disposition anything like that. Now tonight he nipped our son again, this time not breaking skin. He was on our son's bed, licking his feet. The lights were on. My son wanted to bring him into the other room, and approached him pretty slowly, head-on, and reached to gather the dog up, as he has many times before, with his hands at mattress level, not over the dog's head. Our dog watched it happening, and let our son get his hands halfway alongside his body, then again turned and bit/nipped him, just as our son started to put his hands actually on him. Our son says the bite seemed roughly as hard as the one that did break skin, but he has no marks from it.
The dog has let my son, my wife, and me pick him up fairly frequently throughout his life, presumably understanding that he is too cute for us not to. I cannot think of any other behavior anything like this. I'm wondering whether this is not-uncommon behavior, perhaps around this age, or whether it could be a sign of medical trouble. I can't seem to find the search phrase for this; most results are about newly acquired dogs, and/or strangers. Would be grateful for any expertise or experience.
We have a Shih Tzu who just turned 11. We bought him from a breeder when he was 4 months old. He's lived with us, in the same house, all that time.
Our son was about 5 when we brought the dog home, so 15 now. They're both pretty gentle specimens. Our son has bonded more with the dog as the years have gone on. He'll scratch the dog where he (the dog) likes, and present his face to him, which the dog will lick repeatedly, which squicks me out but we're not here to talk about *my* problems. The dog has had a pretty healthy history, with his most notable issue being corneal abrasions. I don't remember observing any incident suggesting he's visually impaired. Other than that, his jumping (e.g., onto the couch) has gotten to be a less sure thing lately, and he started wiping out on stairs often enough starting a year or so ago that we just carry him up them now.
Twice in the last couple months, the dog has given our son what I'd categorize as pretty hard nips. I didn't witness either. The first just barely broke the skin. It happened when our son went to pick him up. The dog was staring at the wall behind his food and water bowls (not new behavior, btw), and he saw our son walk in the room but wouldn't have expected he would get picked up. Our son said the turn to bite was a pretty fast move. The dog's never shown a disposition anything like that. Now tonight he nipped our son again, this time not breaking skin. He was on our son's bed, licking his feet. The lights were on. My son wanted to bring him into the other room, and approached him pretty slowly, head-on, and reached to gather the dog up, as he has many times before, with his hands at mattress level, not over the dog's head. Our dog watched it happening, and let our son get his hands halfway alongside his body, then again turned and bit/nipped him, just as our son started to put his hands actually on him. Our son says the bite seemed roughly as hard as the one that did break skin, but he has no marks from it.
The dog has let my son, my wife, and me pick him up fairly frequently throughout his life, presumably understanding that he is too cute for us not to. I cannot think of any other behavior anything like this. I'm wondering whether this is not-uncommon behavior, perhaps around this age, or whether it could be a sign of medical trouble. I can't seem to find the search phrase for this; most results are about newly acquired dogs, and/or strangers. Would be grateful for any expertise or experience.
Old dogs who start exhibiting biting, can be a sign of pain, or confusion. A sudden change like this would get me calling the vet.
posted by freethefeet at 6:22 PM on January 19, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by freethefeet at 6:22 PM on January 19, 2021 [23 favorites]
That is usually an indicator of pain or anticipation of pain, which would be understandable for a dog that age to be creaky. Think about the actual mechanics of being picked up around the middle like most dogs are - taking all your weight on your ribs and spine, legs dangling from hips and shoulders, pressure on the abdomen which may be touchier in old age.
I might start with changing the picking-up behavior to stand a few steps away and call the dog while also making the gesture for "gonna pick you up", so the dog can make a choice and you can make some observations about refusal.
But yes, I would say talk to the vet (and get an eye exam as part of it), because there are some fantastic meds now for arthritis and other old dog pain. We got nearly an extra year with our dog on gapiprant, and that was 3 years ago - the options are probably even better today.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:28 PM on January 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
I might start with changing the picking-up behavior to stand a few steps away and call the dog while also making the gesture for "gonna pick you up", so the dog can make a choice and you can make some observations about refusal.
But yes, I would say talk to the vet (and get an eye exam as part of it), because there are some fantastic meds now for arthritis and other old dog pain. We got nearly an extra year with our dog on gapiprant, and that was 3 years ago - the options are probably even better today.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:28 PM on January 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
I agree, it's very possible that being picked up may be painful for him now - so yes, definitely vet to check out potential causes. I'd also stop picking him up entirely at least for now and watch to see if he gets nippy in any other scenarios.
posted by randomnity at 6:39 PM on January 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by randomnity at 6:39 PM on January 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks to you all for the responses. We could definitely pick him up less often, but we'd still need to every time we took him for a walk, just to get up (and now down) the stairs. And I add this for further background, not because I don't think he could be in pain, but he definitely doesn't visibly react, much less bite, the other times he's picked up. Definitely no yelping/shaking/trembling. Then again, seems like each of us picks him up differently. My son supports his weight sort of in the midsection, like where a waist would be.
Again, thanks for the feedback. Sounds like a vet visit's a good idea.
posted by troywestfield at 7:09 PM on January 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
Again, thanks for the feedback. Sounds like a vet visit's a good idea.
posted by troywestfield at 7:09 PM on January 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
As others have said it is very often a sign of pain or of fading eyesight/hearing. Good news is pain can often be managed and we've found with our older dogs that making sure they know you are there from a safe distance before getting close enough to nip or touching them. We've taken to clapping and stomping as we approach them, specially if they're backs are too us or they appear to be daydreaming or sleeping. Also picking up more carefully so as to not put pressure on sore bits helped them be less scared of being suddenly picked up.
posted by wwax at 7:46 PM on January 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by wwax at 7:46 PM on January 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
You could easily be describing my own senior Shih tzu here. He is 14, and started reacting in this same way to being picked up when he turned 13. It turned out to mostly be due to arthritis pain. He also has progressively lost his vision and being startled easily will set him off too.
Gabapentin for his arthritis has helped with this a lot. He’s still a much more reactive and cranky dog than he was in his younger years, but I’m assuming I’ll be crankier too when I’m his age. Definitely head into the vet: I waited longer than I should have and it makes me sad to know he was in pain without me realizing it.
posted by nancynickerson at 8:04 PM on January 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
Gabapentin for his arthritis has helped with this a lot. He’s still a much more reactive and cranky dog than he was in his younger years, but I’m assuming I’ll be crankier too when I’m his age. Definitely head into the vet: I waited longer than I should have and it makes me sad to know he was in pain without me realizing it.
posted by nancynickerson at 8:04 PM on January 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm guessing arthritis. Your son needs to change how he picks the dog up: sort of ragdolling the dog is probably putting pressure in weird areas. When my super-arthritis dog got old, we switched to putting one hand under her chest and another on her butt, so she was getting lifted with two sources of support instead of just one around her middle. We were very careful not to let untrained people pick her up so she didn't get snappy or yelpy at other people.
It's a great positive learning moment for your son; he probably hasn't thought much about how much stronger he's gotten lately, or noticed the way the dog moves more slowly. Teenage boys are hard on everything, and he probably just doesn't realize that's hard on a more fragile dog.
Vet visit for sure. If it's arthritis, my little Chihuahua benefitted massively from shots of Adequan every month. Can be quite easy if you're willing to do the injections at home. She was like a new dog after each round of shots.
posted by lilac girl at 10:08 PM on January 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's a great positive learning moment for your son; he probably hasn't thought much about how much stronger he's gotten lately, or noticed the way the dog moves more slowly. Teenage boys are hard on everything, and he probably just doesn't realize that's hard on a more fragile dog.
Vet visit for sure. If it's arthritis, my little Chihuahua benefitted massively from shots of Adequan every month. Can be quite easy if you're willing to do the injections at home. She was like a new dog after each round of shots.
posted by lilac girl at 10:08 PM on January 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Agree with giving the dog some warning that he’s going to be picked up and to pick him up carefully trying to keep the spine straight. I think a vet visit is a good idea- could be arthritis or disc/ spinal pain making him cranky.
posted by morchella at 6:29 AM on January 20, 2021
posted by morchella at 6:29 AM on January 20, 2021
Picking up by the waist can be very uncomfortable/painful even for a healthy dog and your dog could just be getting less tolerant of it now (though a vet visit is definitely still needed). If your son starts picking him up by the chest and rear rather than the abdomen (like so) it might stop the nipping completely.
posted by randomnity at 6:44 AM on January 20, 2021
posted by randomnity at 6:44 AM on January 20, 2021
In case the problem is related to how the dog is picked up -- our elderly dog (RIP Fletcher! dog tax) was absolutely saved for his last couple of years by a harness with a handle that allowed us to pick him up with very even pressure around his whole belly, which kept him very straight. He ended up really enjoying catching a ride this way!
We thought this harness was very expensive when we bought it (we also grabbed the brush guard accessory, which I think helped), but he wore it for about 5 years and it held up astoundingly well. (It was only his last 2 years or so that he needed to be carried a lot.)
posted by nosila at 7:59 AM on January 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
We thought this harness was very expensive when we bought it (we also grabbed the brush guard accessory, which I think helped), but he wore it for about 5 years and it held up astoundingly well. (It was only his last 2 years or so that he needed to be carried a lot.)
posted by nosila at 7:59 AM on January 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
I would agree with others in reiterating the vet suggestion for assessment of pain and/or vision or hearing changes that would lead the dog to startle. For my older fosters, I practice picking them up and telegraphing my intention to pick them up, so they see/hear that I'm about it do it. When I have to pick them up quickly in an emergency-type situation or when I think they may be in pain, I wrap them in a large blanket or towel (even covering their head, if I'm really sure they could bite) and support their butt (nobody likes their unsupported butt hanging out), and I hold them firmly but kindly until I feel them relax. I also do this with new fosters who are unaccustomed to being handled. The key is to not flinch or back off, but gently wait for them to adjust, and to practice doing it again and again, until it's no big deal.
posted by answergrape at 11:48 AM on January 20, 2021
posted by answergrape at 11:48 AM on January 20, 2021
Response by poster: Update for any interested: Vet found nothing, but it emerged that the dog might've woken up seconds before my son went to pick him up. So we're taking the good advice above on making sure he's aware it's about to happen, and on picking him up with better form, and we'll monitor. Thanks again for the advice.
posted by troywestfield at 7:38 AM on January 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by troywestfield at 7:38 AM on January 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hmmm... from watching way too many Bondi Vet episodes, I'd test all his joints and look for any sore spots or joints and such. As your dog advance in the years, they are bound to run into joint problems, and different breeds have different tendencies to different problems. But if your vet said nothing is wrong, it's probably "provoked", so to speak.
posted by kschang at 5:32 PM on January 22, 2021
posted by kschang at 5:32 PM on January 22, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
He also may be going deaf/losing his sight, and is more easily surprised. Maybe try easing in to it a bit more, start with some gentle scritches and then go for the picking up.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 6:22 PM on January 19, 2021 [2 favorites]