Hope Me EE Again!
January 15, 2021 11:02 AM   Subscribe

(Subtitle: TAKE ME BACK, NERD WORLD! Forgive me, and I swear I'll never stray again!) Can I reinvent myself and return to engineering at the tender age of 58? After years of doing “mostly business stuff” for a few decades, can I convince someone in a company I’ve never worked for to take me on as an electrical engineer/system architect/technologist? Special snowflake details inside ...

So 37 years ago I graduated with a BSEE from a Large Ivy League University in upstate New York. After getting my degree, I mostly developed automatic test (ATE) hardware (digital, analog, mixed-signal) and software (BASIC) for IC chips and data acquisition systems. I REALLY, REALLY enjoyed it.

Being young and foolish, and believing I would/could become an entrepreneur, I completed an MBA in 1990 attending Women’s Basketball Powerhouse University in Connecticut part-time.

Moved from being an engineer to being in management in 1990.

Since then I have managed line workers (2 years), managed a production engineering department (1.5 years), managed a repair & return department (7 years), been a product manager at a telecom/datacom chip company (7 years), held a hybrid marketing director/project manager/system architect* position at a small upstream oil & gas instrument company (10 years), and served as project manager (1.5 years) and senior system architect** (1.5 years) at a Very Large Dutch Semiconductor Equipment Manufacturer. I REALLY enjoyed the technical aspects of all these jobs, including the marketing challenges of distilling complex products to their essentials for requirements specs, product tear sheets, PowerPoints, SoWs, conference papers, proposals, etc.

Oh, and remember that entrepreneur thing? I designed, patented, and marketed/sold a box for recording studios & PA systems (7 years; nights and weekends). THAT I also REALLY enjoyed, but couldn’t make a buck from it.

I also enjoyed the more creative aspects of marketing (eg. working with outside providers of graphic & marcoms collateral designs, video & animation, trade show booths).

I’ve come to the conclusion, somewhat late in my career, that I’m a technical guy, not a business guy. I’m most In the zone / flow when I’m working with or learning about technology, either professionally or with my various nerdy home projects.***

In my heart of hearts I know I’d much rather prefer a position with less people contact/content rather than more for the rest of my career. Perhaps I’m romanticizing, but that’s my recollection of what being an engineer was like.

Currently furloughed; house paid-off; kid gone; health ins being paid by my employer; collecting unemployment; getting a few bucks from my life modeling side gig. Wife has marcoms and cat-sitting side gigs (no other income on her side).

We can manage on this for awhile, so I’ve had some time to do some soul-searching and perhaps some skills-sharpening/certification-getting.

Although it’s mostly where I’ve been job-searching recently, my heart clearly is NOT in project management. I’ve blown job interviews for 3 project management positions (including two 2nd interviews) by talking more enthusiastically about the technologies/sectors I’ve worked with/in than my project management skills.

Started studying for PMP certification and couldn’t stay interested.

Other Snowflake Details ...
Living in Connecticut.
White male, 58 years old; people seem genuinely surprised when I tell them. Often told (sincerely, I believe) that I look younger.
Continuously employed since June 1984.
Comfortable enough that I could afford to take a pay cut, if necessary, to start out. (Of course, I would never tell THEM that.)
Willing to do “unglamorous” work, like sustaining engineering, test engineering, or even SW test.
Contract/temp work would be fine, depending on the pay-vs-health insurance equation.
Not interested in an “IT department” job
So, FINALLY, here are my questions**** ...
1) Given that I haven’t done a lot of this professionally recently, how do I get to a high-enough level of perceived competency that I could convince someone to hire me?

2) Seems to me the system architect route would be a good way to get my foot in the door (and I enjoy it), but do people get hired in from outside to do system architecture work “cold,” with no previous inside exposure to the company’s specific products?

3) Seems like there could be quite a bit of FPGA obsolescence work in sustaining engineering. If I bought a couple FPGA development kits (Xylinx; Intel/Altera) with tutorials and completed them, would that be enough to make a case to hire me in to do that?

4) Is it worth pursuing “certifications?” I’ve heard both favorable and unfavorable opinions about this. Would it lend me valuable cred in my case?

5) Is it better to work with a headhunter, contracting firm, go direct (via, eg. LinkedIn/personal networking), or ???

6) How would I respond to “you’re over-qualified” or “you’re too senior” (subtext: “You’re too old and your engineering skills are out-of-date”)?
Thanks, Hivemind!

================================

*System architecture in this context = Power, comms conversion, data formats, electromech, mech I/Fs; NOT IT infrastructure.

**2017 - 2019, after having somewhat of a wash-out experience as project manager. As senior system architect, did circuit and subsystem analysis & design, signal integrity/noise/EMC/grounding, FPGA field support, sustaining engineering, certification, and component obsolescence/EoL work; did a time-series numerical integration circuit model in Excel to address a signal integrity/design margin problem.

***Deep Snowflake Nerd Details ...
Professionally, designed a multi-configuration system battery consumption model in Excel, ca 2015. Also designed a test data parser/SPC tool in Excel, ca 2013. Mentioning this because they are among my favorite projects from my system architecture years.
On my own time, completed a Python tutorial and, more recently, a VHDL tutorial. Started an online MATLAB/Octave course, and that seemed really cool, too.
Enjoy signals & systems, data analysis, stats, math, DSP; I’ve been gradually refreshing my signals and systems math skills over the past few years.
I know and still often do circuit design, debugging, & repair on my various home projects and for my recording studio.
I've converted two of my old laptops to Linux and do all my own support & upgrade work on them.
I’m an audio & music nut (consumer, semi-pro, pro) ... have own recording studio w/Logic DAW; have worked live PA. Play guitar, bass, and sign in studio and in bands.
Love graphical presentation; big Tufte fan
****Not looking for specific company recommendations (although I would definitely take them)
posted by ZenMasterThis to Work & Money (9 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
The usual disclaimers: my job is in the solar hardware/firmware industry; I worked for a long time in the telco industry; I do a fair amount of resume review and interviews, etc.; that's where this answer comes from. Having said this, of course this doesn't represent my company's official stance.
1) Given that I haven’t done a lot of this professionally recently, how do I get to a high-enough level of perceived competency that I could convince someone to hire me?
Here I think you'd want to go in a bit from the edge, like you said above: take a test engineering role, etc., but with a clear statement of "I want to do this job, do it really well, and show that I'm good enough that I can eventually transition over to 50% test engineering and 50% developing firmware." We've totally hired people that started as X (because that's what we needed) with the written statement that they'll slowly move into Y (their long-term goal) as the project winds down.
2) Seems to me the system architect route would be a good way to get my foot in the door (and I enjoy it), but do people get hired in from outside to do system architecture work “cold,” with no previous inside exposure to the company’s specific products?
We wouldn't hire someone from outside to do this. For us it requires too much industry knowledge and understanding the history of why we got here. We would totally hire someone to serve as a regular engineer for a few years with the goal of transitioning them over into an architect role.
3) Seems like there could be quite a bit of FPGA obsolescence work in sustaining engineering. If I bought a couple FPGA development kits (Xylinx; Intel/Altera) with tutorials and completed them, would that be enough to make a case to hire me in to do that?
In my industry, no. FPGA problems are intricate enough that we want to see shipped products. Folks who can write verilog or VHDL aren't uncommon. Folks who can write them well aren't. The easiest way to tell those two apart is by their success rate with real problems in the field.
4) Is it worth pursuing “certifications?” I’ve heard both favorable and unfavorable opinions about this. Would it lend me valuable cred in my case?
For my company, broadly no. Saving having a PE license, government clearance, etc., there's a very small benefit for holding certifications.
5) Is it better to work with a headhunter, contracting firm, go direct (via, eg. LinkedIn/personal networking), or ???
We've had equal success with folks from all methods save contracting firms.
6) How would I respond to “you’re over-qualified” or “you’re too senior” (subtext: “You’re too old and your engineering skills are out-of-date”)?
As a person doing the interviewing / hiring, over-qualified is easier to deal with than the others. It's possible to have a conversation with a candidate who is clearly stepping down in terms of responsibilities, abilities, or pay. If the folks won't even ask you the honest question ("I see that you're interested in doing less direct management than at your last job", etc.) then they're just blowing smoke.

Engineering skills being out of date is trickier. :( It's a hurdle you'll have to overcome and it's most likely an issue at the resume-filter stage where it's hardest for you to address. I don't have any particularly good advice here other than be direct about it (you know that it's a potential shortcoming) and have a plan to fix it ("I plan to do X to get up to speed quickly"). Having done your homework on the problem shows it probably won't be a problem for long.

My best wishes to you. It can be tough out there but we're all here to help each other!
posted by introp at 12:44 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]


I'm going to be harsh, but I want you put your self in the position of the employer. From reading your background, you pose the same risk to their business as I posed to mine when I switched jobs and cooked. These concerns may not be said out loud. Many are probably the same voice in your head. You probably want to have an answer to some of these or at least a tactic to alleviate the concerns of your potential employer.

You are over-qualified. This reads as a glamourous pipe dream to rekindle youthful interests. What are you trying to get out of this company that you are going to spin off into your own in 2-3 years? How set in your way are you going to be comparative to a recent college grad? How many more years can the company get out of you as a future? Is any of your old experience still relevant? Do you code in [X] as well as they could hire someone who just finished learning [X] in school? What are they going to have to you have to unlearn? *on edit* Why should they take so much of a risk on you?

I said this was a lot like me cooking. I left being a research Computer Engineer to cook. I couldn't land a job. I went to culinary school. I got a job through a connection. I toured the same restaurants of the people that I worked with because they could vouch for me. Every single one of them at some point asked me why I was doing it when I had skills to do something else and make more money - things that they didn't necessarily have. Lastly, when I hit 3 1/2 years, the grueling nature of the job, and the realization that the job cost me an opportunity for a family, I went to the analytics side - meaning that I wasn't willing to give up what I had thought I was...

I won't lie, changing over to analytics, learning it inside and out - and knowing engineering principles and how to work 12 pans at the same time has proven invaluable for developing a big data resume... but I don't tout either my engineering or culinary experience anymore - it is totally irrelevant to my employers.

Take the time to really evaluate your story and make sure that downgrading your life and taking this path not traveled is truly what you want, and that you know how to convince your employer it is *exactly* what you want to be doing.
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:52 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]


>> 5) Is it better to work with a headhunter, contracting firm, go direct (via, eg. LinkedIn/personal networking), or ???
> We've had equal success with folks from all methods save contracting firms.

I think a pathology with contracting firms is that they make money by matching workers with contract roles and then taking a cut from the number of days billed. So in the best case they match a skilled worker with a contract role that's a great mutual fit, and all three parties get value out of the arrangement. But contracting firms have a short term profit incentive to put forward workers that aren't a good fit for the role, and if the client isn't able to figure this out, they end up with projects full of contractors who aren't up to the job (see: market for lemons). Similarly, roles and clients can be misrepresented to prospective contractors, so you can find yourself doing something quite different to what you signed up for.

All that said, from perspective of someone looking to get back into a field, I wouldn't rule out considering contract roles if there's a contract opportunity that gives you a way to gain fresh relevant work experience in the target field you are interested in. Taking on a contractor can be a lot lower risk than a permanent employee so it might be easier to get clients to give you a chance. But unlike a longer-term employee arrangement, the client and the contracting firm will be disinterested in your long-term career development, so I'm not sure the "going in from the edge"idea would work, i.e. starting with a contract role doing X where you're actually wanting to do Y.
posted by are-coral-made at 1:57 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]


Do you have your PE? Maybe start your own engineering consulting firm. You’ve certainly got connections with a number of companies and their suppliers. Perhaps narrow down your fields of interest and target firms and people which are in that field in your area. IME, personal contacts pay off much better than all the other employment industry (Linked-In, headhunters, etc.).
posted by sudogeek at 2:50 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: No, I do not have a PE.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:42 PM on January 15, 2021


for IC chips and data acquisition systems

Having been just barely on the periphery of the semiconductor industry I have a couple observations. It's a very boom and bust, a new chip/tech explodes and there's huge work, then that segment is saturated and someone else/other division (in another state/country) is the big thing and oops empty office. The chip guys that go at it are often (itinerant ... not the word but can't use 'g' word that popped into my head) traveling for the couple years to Texas or Hillsboro for someone that wants their specialty.

Hmm, look into the low end, Raspberry Pi or the Arduino infrastructure. There's interesting projects on github, I watch an AIS project that isn't a company but could at some point.
posted by sammyo at 7:22 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]


Like you, I have a BSEE degree, have been continuously employed about the same amount of time (I'm a year older), developed ATE systems early in my career, went into management about the same time, yada yada. Unlike you, I really like engineering management. Also, I focused on software development throughout my career. Also, I'm on the west coast of the US.

I see a lot of "contract-to-hire" going on these days, so that seems like an option. I don't know what the hardware scene is like in CT, but it seems like it wouldn't hurt checking out firms that contract engineers. I would go with firms focused on placing engineers, not Kelly or something like that.

Also, and this surprised me, apparently a lot of recruiters use the "skills" section in LinkedIn as a way to source specific talent. So, focusing on those skills you want to use professionally, and getting your network to vouch for you can help.

Speaking of network, that seems to play a much larger role these days in hiring than perhaps in the past. It's always been important, but now it seems critical. I imagine your LinkedIn profile has all the requisite hash tags, "open to work" frame, and "recruiters can contact me" checked.

Finally, as a director/VP of engineering, I worked best when I had a lead engineer/CTO-type partnering with me. I would handle the project/people/upper management tasks and they would focus on the technology. I know not every engineering team is setup that way and I've seen VP of engineering roles expecting "hands on" engineering.
posted by elmay at 7:45 AM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]


I’ve come to the conclusion, somewhat late in my career, that I’m a technical guy, not a business guy. I’m most In the zone / flow when I’m working with or learning about technology, either professionally or with my various nerdy home projects.

Can you write? Might it be possible that becoming a technical writer would scratch that technology itch? If so, check out this earlier ask: Advice on becoming a technical writer. Also, Google has courses on technical writing, should you want to explore that concept more.

You are an audio and music nut; some company in Berlin that "develops innovative software and hardware for computer-based audio production and DJing - products that push technological boundaries and open up new creative horizons for professionals and amateurs alike" is looking for a technical writer, for example. I am not suggesting that you apply for the job. But once you develop excellent samples of work, you could conceivably write about different areas that you find intriguing as an independent writer or by aligning yourself with an agency. The writing part may be tedious but you will get to nerd out plenty around the tech.

This may be a terrible idea. I am not an engineer. In any case, good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 9:20 AM on January 16, 2021 [1 favorite]


I do think your resume is probably too management heavy to be an ideal fit for the sort of job you want to do. You won't have the "X years of experience in Y" that job descriptions are written for. From what I've seen in the hardware world, they're either looking for fresh college grads that can do the scut work, or experienced hires who don't need much hand-holding. It doesn't hurt to try and see if you get any bites, but you will probably not be at the top of the resume pile.

Your best bet may be to get into an engineering-adjacent org, such as marketing or business development. Application Engineering perhaps, which deals directly with customers. Once you're in a company it's a lot easier to make connections and get the lay of the land, with an eye toward moving into engineering.
posted by Standard Orange at 3:23 PM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]


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