Am I really drinking too much caffeine?

December 10, 2020 5:44 PM

YANMD. My doctor thinks I'm drinking too much caffeine. Is she right?

I'm a latecomer to caffeine -- never had soda, don't drink coffee, would only occasionally have black tea or Excedrin -- but during the hell of quarantine I've developed a lovely habit of a morning pot of tea. Honestly, it's one of my few joys right now so I don't want to stop it, even though I know I could switch to decaf. Here are some details:

-- My teapot holds about 24 ounces of water.
-- I use one PG Tips full-sized teabag (not the smaller size which is meant for a single cup of tea).
-- I brew it for 5 minutes.

Honestly I love that zoom that caffeine gives me. I enjoy the hell out of it, and yes it does certainly make it easier to get myself into work mode. I'm doing this early in the day so it hasn't affected my sleep. And yet...at a recent video appointment to discuss other things, my doctor was Not Happy and said it was way too much. That I should limit myself to 8 ounces of caffeinated tea. Honestly I was rather confused by this but it was an aside in an appointment dedicated to other issues so I didn't raise it with her. That's why I'm turning to you. Some elements to consider:

-- I am 5'2" and 145 pounds, 53 years old. Female.
-- I used to weigh a lot more and not exercise at all. I have spent about 3 years starting to move my body, and the last 15 months or so losing around 85 pounds.
-- I now do extensive and vigorous exercise 6 days a week. I almost always exercise before I have caffeine.
-- I used to have high blood pressure that was well controlled with meds. After this exercise + weight loss, it's low enough that I no longer need to take the meds. During the period when I was tapering off the meds and keeping a close watch on my BP, I would measure it in the early morning (before caffeine) and at bedtime (so many hours after the caffeine). "Keeping an eye on my blood pressure" is basically the only current medical issue I have.
-- I don't have any other pressing health issues other than a bit of situational depression re: the never-ending hell of the Trump Era + CovidTimes.

Does this sound like I'm drinking too much caffeine? Do I really need to cut back?

posted by anonymous to Health & Fitness (32 answers total)

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable level of caffeine to me. As long as you're able to get to sleep and suffer no ill effects, I say go for it.
posted by transitional procedures at 5:49 PM on December 10, 2020 [22 favorites]

Is your doctor clear that you are using one regular tea bag for all 24 ounces? This is really confusing. You are essentially having one serving of tea a day, but just ... spread across a lot more water. Did you tell the doctor you were having 24 ounces of tea a day? Or one tea bag a day? I guess you can't really answer because this is anonymous. But I don't think that one tea bag in more water means more caffeine.

I drink ... lots more tea than this. Can't say I've talked to my doctor about it extensively. I'm not sure why it came up if you don't have a specific caffeine sensitivity. I'm wondering if you presented it in a way that the doctor didn't understand.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:53 PM on December 10, 2020 [18 favorites]

That sounds like a reasonable amount of caffeine. People's caffeine consumption can be really idiosyncratic, so one person's normal is another person's caffeine bomb, but it sounds like you're not having any unpleasant side effects -- jitteriness, restlessness, trouble sleeping, racing heart. I wouldn't worry and would continue to enjoy that pot of tea.
posted by carrioncomfort at 5:56 PM on December 10, 2020 [4 favorites]

You're having the caffeine equivalent of — very roughly — 1½ cups of coffee a day. That's not a lot.

Some doctors really have a thing against caffeine
posted by scruss at 5:56 PM on December 10, 2020 [21 favorites]

24 oz of black tea would have somewhere around 150-200 mg caffeine - about the same or less than a 12 oz coffee. Maybe your doctor would say that 12 oz of coffee is too much as well, but it’s a common small serving size and I’m surprised she’d disapprove if it’s not causing any negative effects for you.
posted by Kriesa at 5:56 PM on December 10, 2020 [3 favorites]

One tea bag has about 50-ish mg of caffeine in it; one cup of coffee has around double that. I might check in with your doctor about this again, to clarify the amount of tea you are having. If they drink coffee, maybe they don't understand that you can have so much more tea with one tea bag.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:56 PM on December 10, 2020 [3 favorites]

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration considers 400 milligrams (about 4 cups brewed coffee) a safe amount of caffeine for healthy adults to consume daily.
This and other good info at Harvard School of Public Health page on caffeine. Many other sources agree (Mayo Clinic, Cleveland clinic, etc).

Your bag of PG tips is about 50 mg caffeine. , or 1/8 the safe daily intake.

Your doctor is way out of line with all common authorities on health and caffeine. Either she is misunderstanding your intake or she's some kind of fringe anti-caf zealot, or perhaps she's just honestly out that of touch and misinformed. Sorry. If it were my doctor I'd want to know which of those it is, maybe something to investigate in the future.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:56 PM on December 10, 2020 [28 favorites]

Oh! I misread. You're having the bigger bags. Sorry.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:57 PM on December 10, 2020

I drink two mugs of coffee each morning. It used to be one pre-pandemic. I just measured and the mug holds 14 ounces, so I drink 28 ounces each day. I look forward to it each morning and sleep well at night. IANYD, but it seems fine to me.
posted by XtineHutch at 5:59 PM on December 10, 2020

I'm prone to high blood pressure. I'm not a doctor.

However, in the course of treating said blood pressure over the last few years, my current doctor (and one other before her) have assured me that a cup or two of coffee a day (two of which contain more caffeine in their brewed form than your pot of tea) might make a transient difference in blood pressure, is not in and of itself a cause for concern assuming I keep my other risk factors in check.

She's also said to me "Coffee is the last thing I'd give up, so if you're happy drinking coffee and it's not causing issues, don't worry about it."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:00 PM on December 10, 2020 [4 favorites]

Ok can you specify what this bag is? I just looked further and I can only find data for the one size, the pyramid bag. I don't even see any larger bags for sale. But in any case. I will bet you week's supply of tea that your method and amount totals well less than 400 mg caffeine per day.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:04 PM on December 10, 2020 [3 favorites]

Doctors often reflexively advise against coffee in much the same way that dentists recommend flossing, or accountants advise you to pay all of your taxes. Sometimes it isn't a well thought out piece of specific medical advise to you so much as it is a nice general bit of wisdom that everyone should do.

Also, remember that in the western world, with more than twelve years of medical education required to become a doctor, that most MDs and DOs average less than 40 hours total of nutrition education. If you just lost 85 pounds, there is an excellent chance you know more about how your body reacts to food and stimulants than your doctor does.

So, unless this doctor was an specialist like an endocrinologist, and looking at specific caffeine level tests that she had ordered for you, then I would remember all the above information, and weigh your evaluation of their recommendation accordingly. "Consume less caffeine, get moderate safe exercise, cut back on cholesterol," there are a whole bunch of these mild cliché truisms that persist in medical education, sometimes for decades after they have been disproven (looking at you, cholesterol and 64 ounces of water daily).

Primary care providers are great, but they are of a necessity generalists. Unless you heard this from a specialist after specific tests taken on your body and blood, then yes, you can be a little skeptical.

But I also think you should educate yourself on what too much caffeine looks like in your body. Heart racing? Can't sleep? Light-headed? Know the symptoms and monitor yourself for them. That way you can say you are doing your due diligence with your own health.
posted by seasparrow at 6:05 PM on December 10, 2020 [18 favorites]

Does this sound like I'm drinking too much caffeine? Do I really need to cut back?

Those are rookie numbers in this racket.
posted by mhoye at 6:05 PM on December 10, 2020 [53 favorites]

Tea has flavonoids that are good for you. Coffee does, too. The caffeine appears to contribute to mild protection against type 2 diabetes, liver disease, Alzheimer's disease, and colon cancer.

Pretty much everybody recommends not having caffeine withing 10-12 hours of bedtime, and lots of caffeine can exacerbate problems with heart rate. Your usage seems mild and pleasant. If t comes up again, I'd ask the doc for citations.

Some people who warn against caffeine have an unfortunate puritanical approach that things that are enjoyable are vices to be avoided. I prefer to avoid that.
posted by theora55 at 6:35 PM on December 10, 2020 [6 favorites]

If I was you, I'd send the doc a message asking for clarification on whether the doctor 1. Understood how much tea you are drinking and 2. Whether she was giving that advise to you in particular or if she would give that advice to any patient. If your doc doesn't have a messaging option, you could call and ask if they can relay a question.
posted by entropyiswinning at 7:00 PM on December 10, 2020 [1 favorite]

I have the CYP1A2 gene gizmo which means i'm likely to be a rapid caffeine metabolizing machine, but the other side of the variant can make someone a slow metabolizer of caffeine and more at risk for hypertension and other things.

Does your doctor have that sort of data from you? Maybe for some other reason they just didn't explain things very well? I think it is pretty reasonable to ask for more clarification.
posted by th3ph17 at 7:02 PM on December 10, 2020 [2 favorites]

I'm assuming that your pot makes 3 cups of full-strength tea because that's the higher amount of caffeine and even still it doesn't sound like too much caffeine to me. I average one large cup of coffee a day so it isn't like I'm someone with caffeinated blood telling you you're OK.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:37 PM on December 10, 2020 [2 favorites]

Someone told me that once that in their experience caffeine was harder to quit than cocaine. Caffeine is a drug with diminishing returns. At a certain point it stops making you feel good and starts being a maintenance drug, something that you drink so you don't get a massive withdrawal headache. How you feel about that is up to you.

The benefits for me were as follows:
- wheee (diminishing returns)
- appetite stimulant
- tastes good
- social

People have a tendency to think of me as having a puritanical approach, but I make my decisions based on my own experiences. Here are my personal reasons for not drinking caffeine any more. It causes and/or exacerbates the following:

- headaches/migraines
- anxiety
- tooth grinding
- urgency in peeing
- tooth staining
- pain/inflammation
- acid reflux

Exercise means you should have an easier time metabolizing it.

If you're going to drink caffeine, do not drink it sometimes. Drink it every day or not at all. I read recently that drinking it on/off/on/off/etc. will sensitize you to caffeine and make you prone to caffeine headaches. That's certainly true in my experience.

My personal opinion is that it should be saved for rare ritual occasions when you specifically want caffeine for some special reason. That caffeine is used in our society to fill a gaping hole in our collective lives. When what we really all need is a hug.
posted by aniola at 8:20 PM on December 10, 2020 [2 favorites]

Also, just to be clear. There is more caffeine in 24 ounces of water with one tea bag steeped for 5 minutes than in 8 ounces of water with one tea bag steeped for 5 minutes.

You can reuse tea bags for a second (and even third) steeping!
posted by aniola at 8:28 PM on December 10, 2020

aniola, I'm curious about your assertion that more water = more caffeine for the same steep time. The rate of caffeine extraction from the bag would be identical for both scenarios; the mg caffeine would thus be the same though the larger cup would be more dilute. The rate of extraction is dynamic depending on close you are to the point of saturation, but caffeine is so soluble in water that from the caffeine's POV there's no difference between 8 and 24 oz.

Serial extraction (reusing the bag for three successive steeps) is different because you start with fresh water each time.
posted by basalganglia at 1:59 AM on December 11, 2020 [11 favorites]

Some prescribed medications can slow down caffeine metabolism and elimination to the point where it should be limited or avoided.

But you should probably ask your doctor for their reasoning on this.
posted by DarkForest at 4:48 AM on December 11, 2020

anecdote: sibling is a doctor who consumed mind-bendingly intense quantities of caffeine, a habit picked up in residence. Now that we're all older, everyone's consumption has gone down somewhat. My caffeine use halved in my 50s. Love the taste, just can't take as much.
posted by ovvl at 5:19 AM on December 11, 2020

I also don’t think the caffeine is “too much.” Congrats on all your other healthy habits. I’m glad you have a lovely ritual to start your day. I really enjoyed Michael Pollen’s interview on Fresh Air about coffee and caffeine. In the end, he goes back to his ritual of morning coffee.
posted by amanda at 6:51 AM on December 11, 2020

The tannins in tea slow your absorption of the caffeine, which for my caffeine-sensitive self means I get less of the buzz-crash cycle that I get from coffee, and probably is better for your blood pressure as well. I don't think what you are drinking is too much at all. (If iron deficiency is an issue for you, do be careful because tannins also inhibit iron absorption.)
posted by misskaz at 7:20 AM on December 11, 2020

No.
posted by KayQuestions at 4:05 PM on December 11, 2020

I don't think this sounds like too much caffeine at all. Also, in my experience you wouldn't feel great if you were having too much caffeine. You'd feel jittery, restless, maybe have heart palpitations.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 8:00 PM on December 11, 2020

wait -- everyone's commenting as if OP uses one small teabag for a whole pot of tea, but they specify "one PG Tips full-sized teabag (not the smaller size which is meant for a single cup of tea)." I immediately pictured one of those large restaurant-size teabags, which is probably off-base, but it's clearly not a lil one-cup bag.
(but still probably fine.)
posted by changeling at 8:59 PM on December 11, 2020 [2 favorites]

You may want to cut caffeine out periodically - for example, stop using it for 2-3 months every year or so. The first week of caffeine withdrawal will let you know if you've become addicted or not, trust me.

Sure, the first week sucks, but then after you reset your normal, when you resume caffeine, you will feel those positive vibes again.
posted by coberh at 9:54 PM on December 11, 2020 [2 favorites]

Do you have a family history of heart problems? That would be a reason to avoid caffeine, even if you don’t personally have any problems right now.
posted by MexicanYenta at 3:44 AM on December 12, 2020

8 oz is one *measuring* cup. A small coffee or a standard size mug is about 12 oz. And tea has less caffeine than coffee!

This is a very weird recommendation by your physician.

Please do not worry about your caffeine intake. Two servings of tea is just not an issue. At all.
posted by desuetude at 8:01 PM on December 12, 2020 [1 favorite]

Do I really need to cut back?

Definitely.

But cut back on the doctor, not the caffeine.
posted by Wet Spot at 1:41 AM on December 14, 2020 [2 favorites]

My mother is similar, HBP and drank green tea often.

At some point she started experiencing headaches (from too much caffeine) and her doctor told her to tone down the green tea. She drinks black tea or other teas (alongside coffee at times) and that helped stop the headaches.

HBP wasn't a considered factor.

I do wish to congratulate you on getting your HBP under control. :)
posted by Bodrik at 2:51 AM on January 25, 2021