Gallstones - do any 'natural' methods really work?

December 9, 2020 1:44 AM

Just discovered I am very full of gallstones. Can't really think why as my (European) diet is pretty good. Not amazing but pretty good. Anyway a friend has recommended a 'detox' using olive oil, lemon juice and epsom salts. I'm generally very wary of such things as they're usually a load of nonsense. But I wondered if MetaFilter had an opinion?

Also, if anyone who has had their gallbladder removed could chime in and let me know if the Deutsche Krankenhausgesellschaft is correct to assert that if you have your gallbladder removed you usually don't need to modify your diet afterwards? I can hardly believe it.

Similarly if anyone who has had their gallstones smashed to smithereens either by soundwave/laser/whatever could chime in and say whether or not they then returned?

many thanks!!

posted by dance to Health & Fitness (30 answers total)

My fiancée had hers removed earlier this year. After the recovery period she’s back to eating all the same foods she enjoyed before she started having problems. I was also skeptical, I’d heard stories about having to avoid fatty foods and so forth, but she’s fine.

I’d put no faith in a “detox.” She tried diet changes to avoid having the gallbladder removed. Didn’t work. Surgery was quick, recovery period was short, and she’s doing great now. Good luck!
posted by jzb at 2:04 AM on December 9, 2020 [10 favorites]

+1 to what jzb said - very similar experience when my wife had this problem
posted by crocomancer at 2:46 AM on December 9, 2020 [3 favorites]

No. A "gallbladder cleanse" is not a real thing. It is pseudoscience.

The gallstones are too large to fit through the very small bile duct from the gallbladder. If it worked, then your body would likely do it naturally and it wouldn't require surgery for many cases. The "cleanse" forms oil ingested and fecal matter in your gut and comes out in clumps, usually with diarrhea. Sorry to be gross, but that's what's happening when people claim they passed "stones". Many cases of gallstones are genetics, hormones, or luck.

Most people live well without a gallbladder if yours is causing problems. I am grateful to have mine (stone-free but not functioning) removed. Please consult with a well rated, science based physician/surgeon.
posted by Crystalinne at 3:12 AM on December 9, 2020 [19 favorites]

I had my gallstones smashed to smithereens by soundwaves. They came back, though I'm a long-time vegetarian with a good diet. Apparently, there is more than one kind of stone, and mine were not caused by a bad diet, at least according to the doctor. I finally had the gallbladder taken out after a serious attack years later. Laparoscopic surgery was easy and fast. I went home the same day and didn't have much pain. I was weak for a few days. I didn't have to change my diet at all. That was several years ago and I'm fine.
posted by pangolin party at 3:23 AM on December 9, 2020 [2 favorites]

Same - I had my gallbladder out, recovery was quick (and I am a very out-of-shape baby) and my diet did not change one tiny bit.
posted by lyssabee at 3:38 AM on December 9, 2020

A gallbladder cleanse is indeed a load of nonsense. Also, while poor diet can be a contributing factor for gallstones, there are multiple causes, so I don't think your first step should be to blame yourself (if you hear about someone else having a disease, do you immediately leap to blame them?).

As for changing diet after gallbladder removal, that varies, I believe. Neither my husband or I have gallbladders any more - he is completely unrestricted, while I just have to be careful not to eat too many nuts. I discovered this through trial and error; I wasn't given advice about changing diet after surgery, because the effects vary so widely.
posted by altolinguistic at 4:22 AM on December 9, 2020 [5 favorites]

I had my gallbladder removed, and broadly speaking, I agree with the comments saying you don’t need to change your diet - with the caveat that if I go really over the top with eg rich dairy (such as at Christmas), I can get some minor discomfort. But that may well be the price of greed, rather than specifically gallbladder related.

It took me a bit longer to fully recover from the surgery than I’ve seen others reporting elsewhere - maybe 2 or 3 weeks to get back to 80% strength, but another 12 to get back to 100%

Good luck and all the best with it
posted by JJZByBffqU at 4:29 AM on December 9, 2020 [2 favorites]

My mum had her gallbladder removed about 25 years ago. She was somewhat cautious with her diet for about 3 months after the operation, to see if anything was giving her trouble. She was fully back to her (very fatty) diet after those 3 months with no issues except a heartburn every now and then when she really overdid it with fat (like eating a bunch of cvarci for dinner).
posted by gakiko at 4:36 AM on December 9, 2020 [2 favorites]

No to the cleanse. You can eat healthily & still get gallstones. I had actually lost 25kg from changing up my diet & going vegetarian for a while when I got mine. The weight loss actually triggered the formation of stones.

I had my gallbladder out over 20 years ago. My diet actually got worse afterward as I went back to eating meat & occasionally if I've had an incredibly fatty meal I'll have bad pain at night when I lay down to sleep. Not OMG gallbladder pain, but like heartburn but where my gallbladder was. It goes away if I sit up for a bit. It happens maybe once or twice a year and when I eat really fatty foods and I mean like dripping with fat type food, multiple pieces of fried chicken or a meat sauce made from 20% fat ground beef that should have been grilled or drained (a mistake my husband made recently). As long as I eat, well like I should be eating anyway, I have no problems.
posted by wwax at 5:49 AM on December 9, 2020 [2 favorites]

Don't prolong the misery, just get the bugger out. I went from mild attack to emergency surgery when a stone shifted, got stuck along the way, and caused jaundice.

It's a relatively easy surgery. Better to get it done early than risk having it adhere to stuff - which then tends to rule out laparoscopic surgery.

I've always had digestive issues, gallbladder or not. I don't think my diet changed much, other than for the first 6 months being scared to eat fat. That was my brain rather than body. Surgery was in 2008.
posted by Ftsqg at 5:52 AM on December 9, 2020 [2 favorites]

I had my gallbladder out about a decade ago. The so-called natural ways do not work (from experience). My gall bladder attacks were so bad I couldn't eat much (everything seemsed to trigger an attack, I was so miserable) so from diagnosis to actually sugery, maybe 3 or 4 months, I lost about 30 pounds (which as a skinny guy was a lot of weight - I was down to the weight I had as an under weight skeleton of a teenager). After the recovery, which in my case took longer then some due to some other issues, I did not need to modify my diet and have never had any issues. I have a friend who had their's out and they went septic... that was bad. Make sure you listen to your body and if things seem not right to get it checked.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:05 AM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

I had mine out a couple of years ago. Unlike others, I had a period of about 2 to 3 months where i had digestive issues, and i had to watch the fatty foods, but it cleared up after then.
posted by BlueBear at 7:25 AM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

Coming in to nth what others else said. I had my gallbladder removed laparoscopicly 1.5 years ago. I was able to do it before it became an emergency situation and suggest if that is a possibility for you to do it. I have not needed any lifestyle/diet changes (I should mention that I'm vegan, so issues with diary mentioned above is not relevant to me).
posted by Pineapplicious at 8:12 AM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

I had my gallblader removed this year. I was careful for the first month, but decided I better figure out if there were any issues before my final follow-up doctor visit. So, the weekend before I loaded up on pizza, fried chicken, and ice cream. I had no problems to report!
posted by bruinfan at 8:22 AM on December 9, 2020

I had mine out in 2010 and the only thing I noticed is that periodically when I overdo it on greasy fatty foods I get a lovely side effect called "bile dumping." The gall bladder acts as a throttle on the bile going into your small intestines, without it, it goes straight in and can make for some very urgent bathroom moments.

But I can say in 10 years, I've only had that happen 5-10 times. And almost every single time, I knew I was getting myself in trouble when I was eating. You just have to pay a little bit of attention to greasy fatty foods. So don't go out to a bar with an icky bathroom and do the all you can eat wings special and you'll be fine.
posted by teleri025 at 8:22 AM on December 9, 2020 [2 favorites]

Had mine out a few years ago after a particularly violent attack where I ended up in the emergency room in the most severe, excruciating pain I've ever felt in my life. Since then, I haven't needed to modify what I want to eat at all. In fact, eating fatty foods was one of the triggers for an attack, and now I'm able to eat them without worry.
posted by lovecrafty at 8:23 AM on December 9, 2020

I had my gallbladder removed more than two years ago; it was filled with gallstones despite eating a low fat diet. I had an attack after feasting on some deep fried foods.

I do have some side effects if I eat a lot of dairy or fatty foods; at it's very worst, uh, fecal incontinence occurred. However, I got put on a medication called cholestyramine, and that cleared right up. I also went back to eating the low fat diet that I ate before, which helped.

Even if you have side effects like mine, the doctors know how to treat it. I have no regrets in getting mine removed.
posted by spinifex23 at 9:15 AM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

I too had my gallbladder out - I eat a reasonably healthy diet, mine was infected (Cholecystitis) and I had "sludge" rather than gallstones. I had a laparoscopic removal which I guess is pretty standard, recovery was not bad and I haven't had to make any huge diet changes. I don't eat a lot of stuff like cheese pizza, but when I do, it's fine.

The biggest issue I had was getting diagnosed - gallbladder issues are stereotypically a female problem so it took a full MRI before they realized what was going on with me.
posted by GuyZero at 10:11 AM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

I had someone convince me to use "natural methods" to deal with my gallbladder problems after being told by an ER doc in the middle of NV to turn around, go home to CA, and have surgery.

After > 48 hours of no sleep due to the massive pain, I went to another ER (in CA), was immediately admitted and spent 6 days in the hospital on IV antibiotics and had the surgery.

That was in 1996, and I haven't had any dietary issues since. I'm glad I didn't die from my stupidity.
posted by elmay at 11:20 AM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

It was such a relief to get mine out! I think recovery from the laparoscopic surgery was about a week or two if remember correctly? it was certainly much easier than the weeks leading up to it with constant gall-bladder pain. My diet hasn't changed (fat-enjoying carnivore) except for peanuts - if I have more than a couple handfuls, I regret it the next day.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 12:48 PM on December 9, 2020

Yeah, jumping in to agree with everyone. When I was first having gallstone attacks the doctor (who wasn't my usual one) did the 'poke their belly and see if it hurts' and it didn't, perhaps because of my fat, so I continued having attacks through my next year's checkup with my usual doc, after which I got sent to an ultrasound etc etc and finally had surgery. Meantime besides watching my diet I tried consuming apple juice, as I'd heard it helped. Can't say whether it did or not, but I was desperate from crawling-on-the-floor-moaning pain. Anyway thank goodness I had surgery at last, I feel like my poop (sorry) has been generally softer (SORRY!) ever since, but my diet is absolutely normal. I was off work for a week and still in some pain for at least another week.
posted by Occula at 1:10 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

If you're uncomfortable with the idea of surgery, ask your doctor if your gallstone type suits oral dissolution therapy (litholytic agents like ursodiol; more); also, try to work out the probable cause of your gallstones as the first part of your treatment decision-making. (As an example: the estrogen link.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:17 PM on December 9, 2020

I've never had a full-blown attack, but I did start getting a twitchy/achy gallbladder after eating ice cream or fatty meals and figured I was probably having issues from sludge or stones, though my issues were not yet severe. I didn't do the cleanse and I'm not interested in trying it, but I did start taking malic acid capsules (naturally found in apples and some other fruits) and after a couple of months, the symptoms I was feeling went away. I periodically take malic acid and haven't had issues. Supposedly, if you have cholesterol stones, the acid helps to soften/dissolve them over time. Since my case was not acute and there wasn't harm in taking malic acid, I tried it and it worked for me. If I was having severe attacks, I would just opt for surgery as attacks can be truly awful and sometimes dangerous.
posted by quince at 1:56 PM on December 9, 2020

Chiming in the say that the "cleanse" things you see online are complete bunk. The olive oil (and various other magic ingredients) come out the other end in a form that sometimes resembles stones but you will indeed still have your gallstones.

I had my gallbladder out just over 2 years ago - best decision ever. It took a couple of weeks to recover from the laparoscopic removal. They will tell you not to lift anything heavy, but I found twisting motion the worst (like pushing a loaded grocery cart).

My digestion was unsettled for about two months after surgery. At first I ate very lightly and avoided anything fatty. Trips to the toilet were frequent and disgusting. After a couple of weeks of this, I went fuck it and went back to eating normally. Nothing changed. However, randomly, two months nearly to the day, my digestion suddenly went back to normal - perfect, happy bowel movements of a pleasing frequency. It was lovely.

I get the occasional Armageddon-level toilet event, but that usually requires epic amounts of cheese or fried food. Totally my fault, but also not bad enough to make me stop. I have had no further pain from where the gallbladder was and the scars have healed to pretty much nothing (faint silver marks on my very pale skin).

Do it. The minor discomfort afterwards is nothing compared to the pain of a full-on gallstone attack.
posted by ninazer0 at 2:08 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

if you do get it out, and are one of the unlucky people who get permanent diarrhea or something else horrible then tell your doctor - there are medications for this! my husband just thought that was what he was stuck with, but the doctor had actually told him to say if it happened but he forgot or was preoccupied at the time.
posted by meepmeow at 2:13 PM on December 9, 2020 [4 favorites]

Gallstones run in my family. My sister repeatedly did this "cleanse" and was an enthusiastic advocate. She said it improved things, but never for long it seemed because she kept doing it. I have no way of knowing if it's related to but she ended up with a stone in her bile duct which was extremely painful. After emergency surgery to remove that, she then had her gallbladder taken out. As far as I know she has no ill effects. I still have mine, with one 10mm stone, 20 years after being diagnosed. It hurts sometimes, but mainly after eating too much fat.
posted by mewsic at 5:12 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

A couple months ago I complained to my doctor about cramp-like pains on my right side, just below my diaphragm. She ordered an abdominal ultrasound, which detected stones and sludge, and encouraged me to have my gallbladder removed as soon as possible. So yesterday I had laparoscopic cholecystectomy to remove my gallbladder and today I felt well enough to go back to work.

I have four incision points, with a little bruising around each, but none is terribly sensitive. I was warned by Google that I might have pain in my shoulders due to the surgeon pumping up my belly with air to give a clear view of the gallbladder, but it’s been over 24 hours, and still no shoulder pain. The only discomfort I’ve had since the surgery has been my throat – I did not expect that - due to the intubation for general anesthesia.

I’ve been told, by the surgeon as well as many friends who needed to have their gallbladders removed, that I’m lucky because the problem was detected before a full blown attack. Gallbladder attacks can be intensely painful, and if you have a bag full of stones, it’s probably just a matter of time before you have one. My advice, fwiw, is to pick a time that’s convenient for you and have it removed.
posted by kbar1 at 9:54 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]

I did have the pain in my shoulders after my surgery. It was very uncomfortable off and on for a few days, especially when sleeping.
posted by bruinfan at 8:12 AM on December 10, 2020 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time - hugely helpful.
posted by dance at 2:53 PM on December 10, 2020

I had my gallbladder out earlier this year, after struggling with bad digestion most of my life and more recently with the classic "gallbladder attacks" that were agonizing. I wish I'd had it out 20 years ago! I'm basically able to eat everything I like but if I do go really hard on the fats and carbs I do get a bit sick but nothing like before (and frankly, I'm talking about OVERBOARD). In my case, it turns out I didn't have many stones at all but I had a lot of sludge and very bad 'strawberry gallbladder'. I'm pretty certain that my decades long "IBS-D" and more recent apparent lactose intolerance were from a shit gallbladder but alas, until I started having pain, it was never something anyone considered removing.

I'd had to postpone my original surgery date and a week before the new date developed jaundice, so I ended up in the hospital having it out sooner. It was still laparoscopic but required additional testing. No biggie and other than the boredom and extra time (and 3-days-long fast I had to have in case they wanted to do the surgery 'any minute now') it was fine and my surgical recovery was easy.
posted by marylynn at 3:29 PM on December 12, 2020