Which is more valuable in these times: a stable job or mental health?
November 11, 2020 1:18 PM Subscribe
This was my situation at my workplace back in June. Since this time things at work have gotten considerably worse. The toxic atmosphere and apathy continues, including an incident months ago where I was yelled at by a physician and sent home for calmly telling her it was not okay for her to be seeing high risk patients after her son tested positive for COVID, and before she received her negative results.
After receiving no action from the local health department, I decided to move forward with an anonymous OSHA claim. Since then, however the not so subtle retaliation efforts have not ceased. I am reaching my mental capacity to continue doing my job without constant reminders of how they’ve treated me, and continue to treat me, but like others, I am struggling to find an acceptable new job. I recognize that retaliation for this sort of thing is illegal, however, retaliation claims are not anonymous. So by initiating a claim, I’d be making things even worse than they already are for myself here. The claim has to happen within 30 days of the incident, and I do not think I going to be able to line up another job nicely in that time. Despite the fact that I have nothing financial to gain, this is probably my only shot at any form of justice against this place, that has been gaslighting me and harassing me in other ways for the past 7 years, despite never actually ever critiquing my job performance.
The icing on the cake of disrespect was the phone call I received two weeks ago, after office hours, from the doctor that I work(ed) with every day. She told me very matter of fact, that I would not be working with her anymore. Instead a nurse that was supposed to retire this year would be taking my place, and I would be assigned to the crummy position of float permanently. (Floats work with numerous doctors/teams at once filling in the empty spaces, no one wants this position, as such it is assigned to new nurses almost exclusively, except now). I was told even, that this was not intended to be a negative thing. So instead, every day I have to come in and bust it, making the day easier for the same people that just causelessly demoted me. This week, they found a new form of torture by making me train an obnoxious new hire no one wants to work with. I’m demoted, but capable enough to train.
I am really good at my job, I do not deserve this. I do not want to keep subjecting myself to this. Little by little my soul is being crushed here. It has recently occurred to me that I could take a few thousand from my 401k to give myself some cushion for a month or two, and just go ahead and quit so that I could spend my time better searching for a new job. However... I’ve never quit a job without another job, I am terrified I won’t be able to find work in a timely manner. I am not independently wealthy.
TLDR; would I be a complete idiot to willingly quit my job without another immediately lined up in this climate, even if I’m being harassed at the office daily?
After receiving no action from the local health department, I decided to move forward with an anonymous OSHA claim. Since then, however the not so subtle retaliation efforts have not ceased. I am reaching my mental capacity to continue doing my job without constant reminders of how they’ve treated me, and continue to treat me, but like others, I am struggling to find an acceptable new job. I recognize that retaliation for this sort of thing is illegal, however, retaliation claims are not anonymous. So by initiating a claim, I’d be making things even worse than they already are for myself here. The claim has to happen within 30 days of the incident, and I do not think I going to be able to line up another job nicely in that time. Despite the fact that I have nothing financial to gain, this is probably my only shot at any form of justice against this place, that has been gaslighting me and harassing me in other ways for the past 7 years, despite never actually ever critiquing my job performance.
The icing on the cake of disrespect was the phone call I received two weeks ago, after office hours, from the doctor that I work(ed) with every day. She told me very matter of fact, that I would not be working with her anymore. Instead a nurse that was supposed to retire this year would be taking my place, and I would be assigned to the crummy position of float permanently. (Floats work with numerous doctors/teams at once filling in the empty spaces, no one wants this position, as such it is assigned to new nurses almost exclusively, except now). I was told even, that this was not intended to be a negative thing. So instead, every day I have to come in and bust it, making the day easier for the same people that just causelessly demoted me. This week, they found a new form of torture by making me train an obnoxious new hire no one wants to work with. I’m demoted, but capable enough to train.
I am really good at my job, I do not deserve this. I do not want to keep subjecting myself to this. Little by little my soul is being crushed here. It has recently occurred to me that I could take a few thousand from my 401k to give myself some cushion for a month or two, and just go ahead and quit so that I could spend my time better searching for a new job. However... I’ve never quit a job without another job, I am terrified I won’t be able to find work in a timely manner. I am not independently wealthy.
TLDR; would I be a complete idiot to willingly quit my job without another immediately lined up in this climate, even if I’m being harassed at the office daily?
would I be a complete idiot to willingly quit my job without another immediately lined up in this climate, even if I’m being harassed at the office daily?
That is purely a financial decision. All the other stuff is irrelevant. You don't like where you are, but can you realistically afford to roll the dice on a new job or can you get a temp job in the meantime (unrelated - seasonal or Uber or something) that would float your living expenses long enough to allow you to live.
You have already decided you want to leave, so none of the drama matters at all. It's all about whether you can afford to live while you look for something else. That will decide if you quit or have to stay.
posted by Brockles at 1:28 PM on November 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
That is purely a financial decision. All the other stuff is irrelevant. You don't like where you are, but can you realistically afford to roll the dice on a new job or can you get a temp job in the meantime (unrelated - seasonal or Uber or something) that would float your living expenses long enough to allow you to live.
You have already decided you want to leave, so none of the drama matters at all. It's all about whether you can afford to live while you look for something else. That will decide if you quit or have to stay.
posted by Brockles at 1:28 PM on November 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
This sounds like a very difficult situation, and you have my sympathy. It definitely sounds like you should not stay there long term so the question is if you should quit now or quit later.
On a purely practical level, my first question would be "how likely am I to find a new job in the next few months?". This depends a lot on where you are located, but it's definitely time to look at job listings and see what the openings look like. There is really no downside to planning out the path you WOULD take if you were to quit. This will either give you a direction on what to do next, or give you more information telling you to stay put for a few months. This will probably seem way harder than it is, but you only need to do a few hours of research to help gather info as a first step.
posted by JZig at 1:30 PM on November 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
On a purely practical level, my first question would be "how likely am I to find a new job in the next few months?". This depends a lot on where you are located, but it's definitely time to look at job listings and see what the openings look like. There is really no downside to planning out the path you WOULD take if you were to quit. This will either give you a direction on what to do next, or give you more information telling you to stay put for a few months. This will probably seem way harder than it is, but you only need to do a few hours of research to help gather info as a first step.
posted by JZig at 1:30 PM on November 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Most people look for a new job while they are employed - you’d have to have a pretty compelling and unique situation for me to believe that you have absolutely no time currently to update your resume and start looking. It’s harder to get hired if you’re unemployed, why not start looking now?
posted by cakelite at 1:31 PM on November 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by cakelite at 1:31 PM on November 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm going to push back against the comment postulating that these folks will sabotage your references; it sounds to me like they want you to leave.
posted by carmicha at 1:31 PM on November 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 1:31 PM on November 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
I disagree. There is a tangible difference between being managed out and retaliation, and this person is not being managed out.
posted by mhoye at 1:37 PM on November 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 1:37 PM on November 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: To note:
I have been looking and applying for months off and on and am very actively hunting for the past few weeks. I’ve been focusing on careers that would get me away from working with physicians since I have had such a toxic history with them, and that has been a tougher nut to crack. But I feel relatively confident that I could find something in that or Pharmacy in a couple of months. But otherwise any job that pays a certain wage is on my radar. There are plenty of jobs available but nothing has stuck yet.
posted by Quincy at 1:38 PM on November 11, 2020
I have been looking and applying for months off and on and am very actively hunting for the past few weeks. I’ve been focusing on careers that would get me away from working with physicians since I have had such a toxic history with them, and that has been a tougher nut to crack. But I feel relatively confident that I could find something in that or Pharmacy in a couple of months. But otherwise any job that pays a certain wage is on my radar. There are plenty of jobs available but nothing has stuck yet.
posted by Quincy at 1:38 PM on November 11, 2020
Response by poster: @carmicha Yea.... this is what I feel and most of my still friendly coworkers feel. They are trying to force me to quit.
posted by Quincy at 1:39 PM on November 11, 2020
posted by Quincy at 1:39 PM on November 11, 2020
The only part of your plan that I feel unsure about is the 401K withdrawl - if your job search takes longer than you anticipate, you could be hit with some heavy fees if you don't pay that back in time.
Otherwise, I absolutely think it makes sense to get the hell out of there. Life is just too god-damn short. Find another way to get the extra "float for a month" money and go.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:13 PM on November 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Otherwise, I absolutely think it makes sense to get the hell out of there. Life is just too god-damn short. Find another way to get the extra "float for a month" money and go.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:13 PM on November 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would find a new job first. If they want to get rid of you, they will hopefully give a good reference so that you will leave for the new job. If you quit first, they have no motivation to give you a good reference.
Do you have a therapist who would be able to work with you on coping strategies in the meantime? I wouldn't normally advocate for getting therapy to try to put up with toxic behaviour (it would be preferable to remove oneself from the toxicity) but these are dark economic times for a lot of people, so we may need to be able to cope with a bit more shit to avoid unemployment.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 4:21 PM on November 11, 2020
Do you have a therapist who would be able to work with you on coping strategies in the meantime? I wouldn't normally advocate for getting therapy to try to put up with toxic behaviour (it would be preferable to remove oneself from the toxicity) but these are dark economic times for a lot of people, so we may need to be able to cope with a bit more shit to avoid unemployment.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 4:21 PM on November 11, 2020
From your question it sounds like maybe you’re a medical assistant? If that’s correct, I would suggest you not give up on moving to another practice. While it’s true that doctors gonna doctor, the lax infection control and dismissive attitude towards Covid-19 that you’ve described at your current job are truly NOT the norm right now-not in primary care, not in specialty practices, not in hospitals. You might love working somewhere with more professional providers! An experienced medical assistant is always in demand, which should make you an attractive candidate. Apologies if I’ve somehow misunderstood your role.
posted by little mouth at 4:40 PM on November 11, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by little mouth at 4:40 PM on November 11, 2020 [6 favorites]
What about temp or per diem jobs to give you some income while you are looking for something more permanent? They might suck but hey, temporary and may be more bearable than what you are in now. That job and people you work with sound terrible. I would bail if you have any cushion at all. Do you have other references from prior jobs or any trusted people at your current job that you get along with? All your employer can do is verify that you worked there, they can't say anything else. Sorry you are going through this during the pandemic, this sounds super stressful.
posted by bookrach at 4:41 PM on November 11, 2020
posted by bookrach at 4:41 PM on November 11, 2020
This sounds so stressful, and I’m sorry you’re in such a toxic environment. It’s hard to go into a job that squashes you every day—I’ve been there.
My husband quit a job without a job lined up a couple years ago, and from that experience I would say don’t do it unless you’re going back to school. Not the answer you want to hear, but I wish someone had stepped in and told us it might actually take 10 very stressful months, not 2, to find a new job, and that he should take as much vacation time as possible or even a leave of absence to clear his mind and focus on the job search.
To give you a data point on what can happen: my guy is super well-credentialed and thought he’d have no problem getting a new job in a booming economy. Three months in he was depressed and anxious with insomnia; six months in he’d eaten through most of his savings and became entirely dependent on me (we hadn’t fully integrated our finances at that point); nine months in he was still dealing with severe anxiety and had to start looking outside the country for jobs; 10.5 months in he got a job in another country and we had to move to a country I never planned to or wanted to live in.
Now that we’re on the other side of it, I’m glad to say that he’s doing really well and has turned things around, but my god the stress—I would not recommend it. It may be okay if you can (a) fund yourself for a year without working, (b) have a backup plan for temp work you could pick up if you don’t have anything lined up but just need to pay the bills, and (c) access/afford healthcare (doctor’s visits, therapists, and prescriptions—all quite necessary when you’re going through an extremely stressful experience) say nine months into not working.
Without that, I would not recommend quitting without another job lined up. Again, sorry to say it, but I wish I’d known. Might there be a third path (the first being quitting and the second being staying in a soul-sucking job) you haven’t thought of, like a mid-career graduate degree or a fellowship?
posted by saltypup at 9:00 PM on November 11, 2020
My husband quit a job without a job lined up a couple years ago, and from that experience I would say don’t do it unless you’re going back to school. Not the answer you want to hear, but I wish someone had stepped in and told us it might actually take 10 very stressful months, not 2, to find a new job, and that he should take as much vacation time as possible or even a leave of absence to clear his mind and focus on the job search.
To give you a data point on what can happen: my guy is super well-credentialed and thought he’d have no problem getting a new job in a booming economy. Three months in he was depressed and anxious with insomnia; six months in he’d eaten through most of his savings and became entirely dependent on me (we hadn’t fully integrated our finances at that point); nine months in he was still dealing with severe anxiety and had to start looking outside the country for jobs; 10.5 months in he got a job in another country and we had to move to a country I never planned to or wanted to live in.
Now that we’re on the other side of it, I’m glad to say that he’s doing really well and has turned things around, but my god the stress—I would not recommend it. It may be okay if you can (a) fund yourself for a year without working, (b) have a backup plan for temp work you could pick up if you don’t have anything lined up but just need to pay the bills, and (c) access/afford healthcare (doctor’s visits, therapists, and prescriptions—all quite necessary when you’re going through an extremely stressful experience) say nine months into not working.
Without that, I would not recommend quitting without another job lined up. Again, sorry to say it, but I wish I’d known. Might there be a third path (the first being quitting and the second being staying in a soul-sucking job) you haven’t thought of, like a mid-career graduate degree or a fellowship?
posted by saltypup at 9:00 PM on November 11, 2020
When you are interviewing make sure to ask about their covid controls and what kind of enforcement they are doing. If you're lucky you'll end up at an ethical place that does not want to infect their clients, which should probably reduce your stress quite a lot. It sounds like your current employers are both a personality mismatch and unethical; I don't know if you'll be able to complain to some authority right now since OSHA has been taken over by Trumpians who have been told not to deal with covid complaints.
posted by benzenedream at 12:25 AM on November 12, 2020
posted by benzenedream at 12:25 AM on November 12, 2020
At this point, I'd say you need to be planning an exit strategy but be very, very deliberate in how you do it. First off, do not quit (unless it is absolutely necessary for your sanity). I don't know anything about Tennessee employment law, but in many places it is harder to get unemployment if you flat out quit. If I were in your shoes, I'd be angling for a severance package and an agreement from them not to disparage you if reference checked in exchange for you not pursuing any legal remedies. Based on what you've told us, they would have a hard time defending themselves against a hostile work environment claim, and they'd probably rather pay you a few months wages to not have to worry about it.
Based on what you've said, you don't really have a future at this employer - that's okay, because it sounds like a toxic cesspool that you will be healthier for leaving. Walking away may be the best thing for your sanity, but it may not be financially (or ethically). Your local labor commission would probably like to know about this, especially the retaliation - if you can provide them evidence of what has been going on, you can very likely dictate most of the terms of this split.
PS:
The key phrase you want to use with your supervisors (especially any HR-types) or the labor commission is "hostile work environment". This phrase should set off alarm bells in any manager/HR person - it has strong legal connotations and it should make them take what you are saying seriously.
posted by _DB_ at 9:09 AM on November 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
Based on what you've said, you don't really have a future at this employer - that's okay, because it sounds like a toxic cesspool that you will be healthier for leaving. Walking away may be the best thing for your sanity, but it may not be financially (or ethically). Your local labor commission would probably like to know about this, especially the retaliation - if you can provide them evidence of what has been going on, you can very likely dictate most of the terms of this split.
PS:
The key phrase you want to use with your supervisors (especially any HR-types) or the labor commission is "hostile work environment". This phrase should set off alarm bells in any manager/HR person - it has strong legal connotations and it should make them take what you are saying seriously.
posted by _DB_ at 9:09 AM on November 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:27 PM on November 11, 2020 [3 favorites]