What was with those Logans?
November 1, 2020 10:46 AM Subscribe
Watching Gilmore Girls for the first time, and cannot believe the Rory/Logan pairing. This after having Veronica Mars basically ruined by the Veronica/Logan pairing. WTF?
Both women were written as smart, good-hearted, fair-minded people. Both dudes were written as rich entitled assholes who got off on being assholes. I get that going for the "bad boy" is a thing, but both shows seem to put a lot of effort into making this a OTP, even if it breaks the main character. Is this just a case of the CW/WB playing to the shallow teen girls they assume are watching the show? Was this just a 200X thing that wouldn't fly today (the Buffy/Spike thing was real squicky too)? Was there a real Logan in Hollywood we can trace this all back to? Hope me.
Both women were written as smart, good-hearted, fair-minded people. Both dudes were written as rich entitled assholes who got off on being assholes. I get that going for the "bad boy" is a thing, but both shows seem to put a lot of effort into making this a OTP, even if it breaks the main character. Is this just a case of the CW/WB playing to the shallow teen girls they assume are watching the show? Was this just a 200X thing that wouldn't fly today (the Buffy/Spike thing was real squicky too)? Was there a real Logan in Hollywood we can trace this all back to? Hope me.
Well, Veronica Mars and Buffy were written by men, so it’s easy to say that breaking those main characters is the point, telling both young women and themselves that a man being kind doesn’t matter, and a smart, independent woman can be won over by pure hotness and charisma.
Story-wise, kind people are often seen as boring. Plot is driven by conflict, and the internal conflict of “i shouldn’t love him but I do” is super compelling, a guilty indulgence.
Tv and movies are terrible media for showing healthy, ongoing relationships, especially among main characters.
posted by itesser at 11:10 AM on November 1, 2020 [9 favorites]
Story-wise, kind people are often seen as boring. Plot is driven by conflict, and the internal conflict of “i shouldn’t love him but I do” is super compelling, a guilty indulgence.
Tv and movies are terrible media for showing healthy, ongoing relationships, especially among main characters.
posted by itesser at 11:10 AM on November 1, 2020 [9 favorites]
I think you are overestimating the degree to which Rory is actually good-hearted and fair-minded and how much that's just a thing other people say about her. Logan lets her indulge her shittier instincts without judging her. She doesn't have to live up to what Star's Hollow thinks she is. (Or what Amy Sherman-Palladino free she is.)
posted by jacquilynne at 11:36 AM on November 1, 2020 [38 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 11:36 AM on November 1, 2020 [38 favorites]
Jess was also an asshole, remember; just not a rich one. But I saw Tristan, Logan, and young Christopher as basically the same person, and figured the writers were just into That Dude.
posted by metasarah at 11:45 AM on November 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 11:45 AM on November 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
I think this may be partly a 2000s thing - it goes along with a lot of the shows that were popular with teens (Gossip Girl, The Hills, etc) at the time.
As showbiz_liz says, I remember at the time that Veronica and Logan getting together was driven mostly by the surprise chemistry between the two actors and how charming the actor who played Logan was (and the fact that the person who was initially set up as Veronica's OTP was such a dud - her ex-boyfriend, I can't even remember his name). Though we now know that Kristen Bell is just really good at having chemistry with her co-stars!
If you're not done with Gilmore Girls, then (SPOILER!!!!!!!!!) I will just say you shouldn't assume Logan is supposed to be Rory's OTP.
Actually, that was one of the things I really liked about the original series, none of the boyfriends were positioned as her Forever Soulmate - they were all guys who were flawed but also had good/interesting qualities, and who brought out different things in Rory, and who suited the stage of life she was in at the time.
posted by lunasol at 11:50 AM on November 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
As showbiz_liz says, I remember at the time that Veronica and Logan getting together was driven mostly by the surprise chemistry between the two actors and how charming the actor who played Logan was (and the fact that the person who was initially set up as Veronica's OTP was such a dud - her ex-boyfriend, I can't even remember his name). Though we now know that Kristen Bell is just really good at having chemistry with her co-stars!
If you're not done with Gilmore Girls, then (SPOILER!!!!!!!!!) I will just say you shouldn't assume Logan is supposed to be Rory's OTP.
Actually, that was one of the things I really liked about the original series, none of the boyfriends were positioned as her Forever Soulmate - they were all guys who were flawed but also had good/interesting qualities, and who brought out different things in Rory, and who suited the stage of life she was in at the time.
posted by lunasol at 11:50 AM on November 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
What an interesting question. Some thoughts:
1) FWIW, season 7 of Gilmore Girls wasn't written by Amy Sherman-Palladino, so some of the Logan stuff might not have been part of the original intention.
2) Agreed with jacquilynne that I'm not 100% sure that Rory is actually written as "smart, good-hearted, fair-minded", especially when it comes to her love life. Both Lorelai and Rory make some bad decisions in this area (marrying Christopher, sleeping with Dean) that seem to say that neither of them are particularly self-aware this way.
3) In fact, in the revival, there's actually a scene that makes both Lorelai and Rory seem like pretty awful, shallow people.
4) From the beginning, it seems like Amy Sherman-Palladino wanted the show to end a certain way. For that ending to work, Rory had to be in love with someone alot like her father.
posted by tinymegalo at 11:52 AM on November 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
1) FWIW, season 7 of Gilmore Girls wasn't written by Amy Sherman-Palladino, so some of the Logan stuff might not have been part of the original intention.
2) Agreed with jacquilynne that I'm not 100% sure that Rory is actually written as "smart, good-hearted, fair-minded", especially when it comes to her love life. Both Lorelai and Rory make some bad decisions in this area (marrying Christopher, sleeping with Dean) that seem to say that neither of them are particularly self-aware this way.
3) In fact, in the revival, there's actually a scene that makes both Lorelai and Rory seem like pretty awful, shallow people.
4) From the beginning, it seems like Amy Sherman-Palladino wanted the show to end a certain way. For that ending to work, Rory had to be in love with someone alot like her father.
posted by tinymegalo at 11:52 AM on November 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
I think bad boy romances can be bit of staple in stories with a coming of age component because they're a potential catalyst for character development (not necessarily positive). But girls will be girls and youth is a time for experiments and experimenting with a bad boy is also experimenting with your own persona - ie. how commited are you really to being "good-hearted and fair-minded"? Have you just been conforming to outside expectations? Trying to please the grown-ups? What would it be like to just enjoy power and wealth without any sense of responsibility? Lots of girls aren't always sure if they want to be good-hearted and fair-minded, and the bad boy is a good way of exploring that.
I guess Buffy ultimately always recommits to her heroic duties/pro-social values, Rory apparently less so, Veronica succesfully reforms her rake and then gets bored with him, because it has always been about her own anti-social tendencies after all - but the idee is that after being tested by the temptation of the bad boy, that deliberate return to responsibility is more meaningful. There's also the power fantasy of reforming the rake, I mean sure, fairly unrealistic, but hardly the only unrealistic thing in that kind of entertainment.
posted by sohalt at 12:00 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I guess Buffy ultimately always recommits to her heroic duties/pro-social values, Rory apparently less so, Veronica succesfully reforms her rake and then gets bored with him, because it has always been about her own anti-social tendencies after all - but the idee is that after being tested by the temptation of the bad boy, that deliberate return to responsibility is more meaningful. There's also the power fantasy of reforming the rake, I mean sure, fairly unrealistic, but hardly the only unrealistic thing in that kind of entertainment.
posted by sohalt at 12:00 PM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
> they're a potential catalyst for character development
I was gonna say they're a potent catalyst for conflict. TV dramas would be super-boring if people communicated well, made good choices, and weren't petty. Conflict is what makes us engage with TV, and if conflict goes away, things get weird. So people on TV don't communicate (which is to say they are prevented from doing so by writers), make horrible choices (thanks to the writers), and so on and we eat it up, but that's an especially good reason why they are not role-models. No character can stay "fixed" for long unless they're leaving a show.
I haven't watched GG, but had VM lasted into a 4th season (in its original run, not the Hulu season), chances are they'd have to disrupt Veronica/Logan, just as they broke up Veronica/Duncan, Duncan/Meg (on the rocks before she got on the bus), Logan/Jessie, Wallace/Everybody -- hell, Wallace even broke his friendship with VM, despite them being a core duo -- relationships are not sacred on TV. Conflict makes the show watchable; realism and people acting like grown-ups... not so much.
posted by Sunburnt at 1:01 PM on November 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
I was gonna say they're a potent catalyst for conflict. TV dramas would be super-boring if people communicated well, made good choices, and weren't petty. Conflict is what makes us engage with TV, and if conflict goes away, things get weird. So people on TV don't communicate (which is to say they are prevented from doing so by writers), make horrible choices (thanks to the writers), and so on and we eat it up, but that's an especially good reason why they are not role-models. No character can stay "fixed" for long unless they're leaving a show.
I haven't watched GG, but had VM lasted into a 4th season (in its original run, not the Hulu season), chances are they'd have to disrupt Veronica/Logan, just as they broke up Veronica/Duncan, Duncan/Meg (on the rocks before she got on the bus), Logan/Jessie, Wallace/Everybody -- hell, Wallace even broke his friendship with VM, despite them being a core duo -- relationships are not sacred on TV. Conflict makes the show watchable; realism and people acting like grown-ups... not so much.
posted by Sunburnt at 1:01 PM on November 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am actually a defender of Logan on GG in that he's willing to challenge Rory and not just treat her like she's some kind of innocent perfect child who can do no wrong (and then turn around and blame her when she did. I'm looking at you, Dean). Yes, he lets her indulge in some bad things but I liked that Logan never had this idealized view of Rory that everyone else did.
He also calls her out quite a bit in a way that Jess and Dean never did overall (minus that one part in season 6, I guess).
Is Logan perfect? Not at all, but I do think he grows as a character quite a bit, especially by season 7 (which the Palladinos weren't involved with). The revival regresses some of that but the revival regresses a lot of things, unfortunately.
posted by edencosmic at 1:02 PM on November 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
He also calls her out quite a bit in a way that Jess and Dean never did overall (minus that one part in season 6, I guess).
Is Logan perfect? Not at all, but I do think he grows as a character quite a bit, especially by season 7 (which the Palladinos weren't involved with). The revival regresses some of that but the revival regresses a lot of things, unfortunately.
posted by edencosmic at 1:02 PM on November 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
Veronica Mars is explicitly in the noir genre, and per noir rules characters don't get to be happy for very long. This is, I believe, why she ended up with Logan. She is not meant to be happy for the long term, and he will not make her happy in the long term. This may sound snarky, but I'm not kidding! Especially with how the most recent season ended.
This doesn't discount the "written by men" point raised above, though. I binged ALL of Veronica Mars in preparation for the recent series and HOO BOY was I exhausted by the male perspective of it all at the end.
posted by rhiannonstone at 1:41 PM on November 1, 2020
This doesn't discount the "written by men" point raised above, though. I binged ALL of Veronica Mars in preparation for the recent series and HOO BOY was I exhausted by the male perspective of it all at the end.
posted by rhiannonstone at 1:41 PM on November 1, 2020
Response by poster: So what you're saying is "It's just a show, I should really just relax"? ;D
posted by rikschell at 1:55 PM on November 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 1:55 PM on November 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
FWIW, rickschell, I also was not very relaxed about Rory's choice of boyfriends and thought the Logan pairing was gross (though simultaneously I agree with the assessment that Rory was never really that upstanding a person in the first place and she's doing a lot of figuring herself out, for better or worse). When my wife and I watched GG we had nicknames for all three of her useless boyfriends - Shitbird, Moneydick, and Sadsack (you can probably figure out who was who). Logan just struck me as a really tedious shit and while watching, I repeatedly invited him to piss right off with his self-impressed fart huffing and his flaccid little Life and Death Society, trying so hard to convince themselves they were Very Interesting Flouters of Society's Rules and probably irritating the hell out of everyone around them ... I have no chill about Logan.
(I also have very little chill about the proposition that characters can't be interesting if they have strong relationships with good communication - I'd rather see a healthy, strong couple where conflict comes more from their interactions with others or from situations that arise ... but relationship conflict does seem to be one of the primary quarries from which some shows mine their plots, so what can you do)
posted by DingoMutt at 4:08 PM on November 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
(I also have very little chill about the proposition that characters can't be interesting if they have strong relationships with good communication - I'd rather see a healthy, strong couple where conflict comes more from their interactions with others or from situations that arise ... but relationship conflict does seem to be one of the primary quarries from which some shows mine their plots, so what can you do)
posted by DingoMutt at 4:08 PM on November 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
Both women were written as smart, good-hearted, fair-minded people. Both dudes were written as rich entitled assholes who got off on being assholes. I get that going for the "bad boy" is a thing, but both shows seem to put a lot of effort into making this a OTP, even if it breaks the main character. Is this just a case of the CW/WB playing to the shallow teen girls
Rory's good instincts brought low by extraordinary moral weakness were a hallmark of her character as much as book-reading, maybe more so. she had all of her mother's skill at self-justification without the backbone behind it. it is excessively shallow to interpret a female character solely in light of how she feels about herself and what her accessories & visual signifiers suggest about her generic type; there is more to her than that. I would agree that Logan is much worse than she is, he had the upbringing to encourage it from early days. but she is a lot more like him than she is like her previous boyfriends. and by the time she's with him she's old enough to be a lot more like herself, too. and to choose what her self is going to be.
besides, playing to the superficial side of the audience would have kept her with Jess forever
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:55 AM on November 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
Rory's good instincts brought low by extraordinary moral weakness were a hallmark of her character as much as book-reading, maybe more so. she had all of her mother's skill at self-justification without the backbone behind it. it is excessively shallow to interpret a female character solely in light of how she feels about herself and what her accessories & visual signifiers suggest about her generic type; there is more to her than that. I would agree that Logan is much worse than she is, he had the upbringing to encourage it from early days. but she is a lot more like him than she is like her previous boyfriends. and by the time she's with him she's old enough to be a lot more like herself, too. and to choose what her self is going to be.
besides, playing to the superficial side of the audience would have kept her with Jess forever
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:55 AM on November 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Having watched both shows when they aired and rewatching Veronica Mars just recently - yes, I think this is basically accurate.
That said, in the case of Logan and Veronica I believe I read that the natural chemistry between the actors led the writers to put more emphasis on that relationship than they'd initially planned to.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:07 AM on November 1, 2020 [1 favorite]