How stupid is it to take a 3-4 day vacation in New England right now?

October 8, 2020 10:21 AM

We'd rent an entire house, and wouldn't eat inside restaurants or otherwise be indoors with anyone not in our tiny pod. We'd also rent a car. We are both high risk. We're just both also losing our minds here in Brooklyn. How much risk do you think we'd be adding?
posted by schadenfrau to Health & Fitness (30 answers total)

I am in New England. Some people are idiots and some are careful.

If you literally went from home to car to rental house to car to home, maybe -- but this gives me pause: We'd also rent a car. We are both high risk.

That's hard for me to say yes to, I'm afraid.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:33 AM on October 8, 2020 [2 favorites]

I don't see how you could avoid being inside with somebody (e.g., food shopping, the visitor's center at a national park).
In general from what I'm hearing, cases seem to be going up throughout New England.
posted by Jon44 at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2020

MicroCOVID has been linked a few times before on the green, and it seems pretty useful for calculating risk with a number of factors.

I mean, you're both high risk? That alone would probably peg it out at closer to "really damn stupid" in my book, but everyone's risk tolerance is different.

Car rental and house rental add up to what? Can you throw money at this problem? I've been using a google cardboard headset, some good headphones and a bunch of youtube VR videos to simulate new places and zones. I find it pretty calming, once you push past the dystopic nature of it. It was cheap, and for a few more bucks you could probably rig up something better and more comfortable.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:36 AM on October 8, 2020 [6 favorites]

Added risk depends how much you are getting out in brooklyn and the case load and attitude where you are going. What you describe is probably the safest way possibly to get away for the weekend. When you say rent a car, you mean rent one to get there right? I know lots of people who have taken weekend trips out of state, including flights and eating in restuarants without becoming positive.

The high risk part is what gives me pause.
posted by domino at 10:38 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]

"I don't see how you could avoid being inside with somebody (e.g., food shopping, the visitor's center at a national park)."

It depends on how careful you're being in NYC though. If you're food shopping here, it's not going to be more dangerous to food shop there.
posted by Jahaza at 10:39 AM on October 8, 2020 [11 favorites]

I work at a large medical center in Boston and we are definitely preparing for a second surge and Boston Public Schools just paused their reopening plan because of rising + numbers if that helps at all.
I can't speak to ME, NH, VT, or even Central/Western MA but I would not advise, say, inside 128 for sure.
posted by bowmaniac at 10:44 AM on October 8, 2020 [3 favorites]

If I were doing this (and I recently did a cross-country road trip), here's what I'd think about:
* Can you get a rental car delivered, so you wouldn't have to go inside the agency? Then you'd just be letting it air out + sanitizing surfaces after delivery.
* Can you make the drive to your chosen destination without having to stop and use a public bathroom? (Helps if you're willing to ... uh ... go for camping style options.)
* Can you get curbside pickup? Or pack all the food you're going to need? Depending on the region, you may have to place your order days ahead of time to get a slot.
* If you're renting a whole house, you might be able to get a guarantee that it's been empty for X days before your arrival.
posted by Metasyntactic at 10:45 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]

If it helps, I'm in Jersey, am high risk, and fantasize about this constantly. I have browsed and mentally planned a lot of trips. Instead of going on them, I have gone on a lot of longer nature walks during the early morning or evening in less populated areas nearby, with a mask on. I take photos and am learning to draw/paint them and set up a new corner in my house for making art. This compromise has helped me with some of the difficulty I've been having being trapped alone for so long, with winter coming. I don't know if you could do something similar, but you may be able to use the money that you would spend on a trip on something else that is a bit safer. The thing that really gives me pause is that case numbers are going up, and you can't rule out an emergency where you end up having to interact with another person.
posted by k8lin at 10:55 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]

Enterprise with car delivery or Zipcar type of car pickup would be best, but picking up keys from an office is not any different that quick visit to any other retail location with low people count. Get food delivered or otherwise get it prior to your trip. Avoid busy rest stops on the highway if possible on the way there and back. Enjoy outdoor activities and minimize visits to busy supermarkets, etc.
posted by zeikka at 10:55 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]

We recently took a vacation in Cape Cod for several days and we were never inside with anyone. We rented a place that had self check-in. We brought some food with us just in case and only ate at outdoor restaurants. I feel like it was lower risk than our day-to-day life.

If you're nervous about New England's cases or making a long drive without stopping, maybe try a nearby off-season spot instead, like the Jersey shore?
posted by beyond_pink at 10:56 AM on October 8, 2020 [2 favorites]

It depends partly on where you're going in New England. Most of Vermont, New Hampshire or Maine are going to be way safer than where you are now. Vermont requires visitors (or people returning from out of state travel) to quarantine if they are coming from a place with more than 400 active cases per million and they have this map showing which counties inside and outside Vermont meet the criteria. I would use that map as your guide and try to go to one of the counties that are green (if outside Vermont) or the lightest shade of blue (if inside Vermont.) If you go to a place with fewer active cases per million than where you are now and don't spend more time in public places than you would if you stayed home, I don't see how that could be adding any risk to you.
posted by Redstart at 10:58 AM on October 8, 2020 [3 favorites]

Rules/situation in Northern NE:

-VT will require you to do either a 7 or 14 day quarantine prior to getting to the state.
-NH requires a 2 week quarantine period prior to entry to the state; you need to attest to that when you get to your lodging. Cases are generally low throughout the state, but are starting to tick up in the more urban areas.
-Southern Maine is just coming out of a little surge thanks to the wedding in Northern Maine. They also have a strict 2 week quarantine requirement for non-New Englanders that starts when you get to the state. I think you can skirt this with a recent negative test.

Mass. is ticking up right now, as others have noted; I don't know what their quarantine rules are.

As someone in NH, I'd say a trip by car from NYC with no indoor activities is likely pretty safe. Safer if you don't do any dining at all, likely, and just bring groceries and cook. Note that mask wearing is, unfortunately, likely negatively correlated with the number of cases (cities will have higher rates, but mask mandates; smaller towns, lower rates, but no mask mandates).
posted by damayanti at 11:01 AM on October 8, 2020 [2 favorites]

I am taking my Mom (high risk) on a road trip for Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend, and our plans sound very much like yours -- isolated in our car, isolated in our room, eating in the room, all our activities being outdoors with good spacing, etc. We have thought about the risks involved, and think/guess that it should be no worse than what our daily routines involve now, and probably even lower.

That said, we've made a pact that if either one of us feels uncomfortable at any point, that we both bail, no questions asked. So much depends on how strangers are behaving, and that's unknowable.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:02 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]

The couple of times I've rented cars recently, agents came out to the lot for paperwork and key handoff; call to find a location that does that. All major companies say they are thoroughly disinfecting, but can't hurt to Lysol the interior, close it up and wait a bit, then wipe surfaces with a disinfecting cloth, then open up all the windows and drive away. (I don't do that because I think the absolute risk is already low, but I'm not high risk.)
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:03 AM on October 8, 2020

If you can do this without encountering any people (which I totally think you can) I definitely would. I'd get the car a day early, air it out with the windows down and wipe down the surfaces, pack all the food you'll need. Pick a place that is a no-bathroom drive from home (for me that would be more than 3 hours; I'm lucky like that). Make sure the house has been empty for a couple of days before you get there, open the windows and wipe down when you get there.

But then you can't go anywhere public while you're there. This might be a dealbreaker for other people, but when I get a rental house I want to be alone in a house that is bigger and nicer than mine and to go for walks in the woods, kayaking, etc. Especially if I was leaving a big city, that's what I'd be looking for.

You could get meals delivered, too, from local restaurants, if they'll leave them on the porch. You can't go to museums and cute downtown shops or anything like that, which sucks. But if you just want to look at some walls that aren't yours, read a book on a fancy porch with maybe a firepit, etc.--yes, you can do that.
posted by gideonfrog at 11:12 AM on October 8, 2020

We're doing this exact thing, but we're staying in state (just going somewhere with more space). We're putting food in a cooler to take with us and rented an AirBnB. It's got a fire pit, hot tub, billiards table and kayaks for the river. We're planning on cooking and hanging out with a few people in our bubble.
posted by Alison at 11:27 AM on October 8, 2020 [8 favorites]

I am in some high risk categories and recently spent a weekend in the Adirondacks at a rental place. We did drive there and did a lot of our grocery shopping locally before going. Like anywhere, there are some covidiots who don't care and a lot of people adhering to the guidelines. I did not feel at increased risk over being at home at any time.

I have a relative who lives in Brooklyn, (Williamsburg west of the BQE) who is considering staying with me in Westchester for a few weeks. A lot depends on where you live, how much you get out and what the infection rates are where you are going. Having said that, the infection rates in parts of Brooklyn are going to be higher than most parts of NE.

I would go.
posted by AugustWest at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2020

Here's the Mass. Department of health web page: https://www.mass.gov/orgs/department-of-public-health

The cases are rising in Mass., but I believe that's tied to school kids and college kids. If you're totally isolated, then you're not part of that, right?

BUT. If you need to go to the grocery store or the gas station or have something delivered, then you're mingling with The Great Unwashed -- and that's when risk comes in. if you bring your own food (like Alison) and booze, then maybe you eliminate the possible points of contact. *shrug*
posted by wenestvedt at 11:41 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]

Given that you're coming from Brooklyn, I think if you are very careful in many ways mentioned above, your risk won't increase substantially, and may actually decrease for a short time as you're able to more truly isolate and distance.

In regards to disease levels, note that by the NYT maps, all of New England is globally low. Cases are increasing, to be sure, but are still low overall. They may be the lowest they get for months to come, if things go as forecasted. Given that, I'd advise to go sooner than later -- now, not next month -- as it may be moot by then.

Just be aware that it's also leaf-peeping season, so avoid the more-obvious places (and college towns); maybe head even further north, where leaves are past prime.
posted by Dashy at 11:43 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]

Yeah hi I live in the center of Vermont and it's been one of the safest places to be during this entire COVID Time, which is lucky because it's rural and we don't have much in the way of surplus medical care. As people have linked to above there's a mandatory 14 day quarantine if you come here. Realistically no one will be enforcing that on you but I think you need to be honest with yourself about just how not-indoors you could be (not going food shopping? not going to a drug store or convenience store?) because there are only a few takeout places here, for example, and no delivery (grocery or otherwise). And mask compliance (we have a mandate, but it's not a law) here is iffy. Also, just to sweeten the pot, the leaves are GONE here, but maybe in the Southern part of the state there are still some? So, I don't want to dissuade you as much as think about things that you might need to think about if you're coming from someplace that has better mask compliance, more delivery or pick-up options and leaves on the trees.
posted by jessamyn at 12:23 PM on October 8, 2020 [6 favorites]

I think it really depends on what your risk level/risk activities are at home - in some ways I would expect distancing to be easier on vacation since there's nothing you actually *have* to do.

Like, I live in a Boston suburb that is currently designated "red" (high-risk) by the state of MA - it's not a tourist destination and I wouldn't expect you to be considering coming here, regardless of safety. But! I think you could actually vacation very safely here! Contactless grocery (or restaurant) delivery is trivially easy to get. There are plenty of nice outdoor places to go for a hike or a drive and the beach is not far away, and most of these outdoor places are not busy during the week. Face coverings are pretty ubiquitous, even in the woods (I haven't actually been to the beach lately). They're not the BEST woods or beaches, but it's a change of pace anyway and the foliage is still pretty. You wouldn't be working or going to parties (which seem to be the major modes of transmission) and with a little planning you wouldn't need to go inside at all.

For something more actually-touristy I might recommend something like the Pioneer Valley (in Massachusetts) or the Mt. Washington Valley (in New Hampshire), where you'll have some takeout and curbside grocery options (though delivery would be harder to get) but less masking, and you'll probably want to avoid the most popular trailheads if you hike.

Or if you can rent a house on a lake or some other attractive kind of place with some nice outdoor space it seems pretty reasonable to just get a grocery pickup at the nearest available location (they put the groceries in your trunk so you really don't interact with anyone - NE chains with curbside pickup include Walmart, Stop&Shop, Hannaford, Whole Foods, and probably others) then hunker down for a week or so. Depends on whether "hanging out in a hammock reading" or "doing puzzles and playing cards" counts as a vacation activity for you or whether you need to really explore a new place.
posted by mskyle at 2:09 PM on October 8, 2020

So stupid. It’s ridiculously stupid. Please don’t do this.

For two reasons: number one - here in MA, our cases are going up. You would be no safer most places here than you are in Brooklyn. A lot of school districts, including Boston, have had to roll back reopening plans bc MA’s rates are increasing so fast. This is just one state, but it shows the effect that reopening has had & tourism has been a HUGE part of that and even with the travel ban it’s not great. I see so many tourists in Boston every day and it blows my mind.

The rural areas are worse. My parents are in Vermont and have seen cases go from 4 cases a week to 20 over the past month as foliage season has hit. This is a lot for a state that has six hospitals. Six. For the whole state. Generalize this out to be more or less the same for NH & ME. Tourists equal more cases for populations with limited access to hospitals.

In summary: you are 100% no safer in the more populated areas of New England than you are in Brooklyn and no one at all should be taking a “vacation” in rural New England rn. You asked “is this stupid?” IT IS VERY STUPID.
posted by sonika at 3:07 PM on October 8, 2020 [5 favorites]

For completeness, I'll add that Connecticut has quarantine depending on where you are coming from.
Details here. Currently we have hotspots in the Norwich area, Hartford area, and around UConn.
posted by SemiSalt at 3:25 PM on October 8, 2020

Recently went on a small pod vacation where I hardcore quarantined for two weeks before driving to pick up some immunocomprised friends to stay in an AirBnB cabin for a long weekend.

It was great! We brought our own groceries, went for walks in the woods, had zero contact with other humans. As urban apartment-dwellers it was so nice to just sit outside in a woodsy area.

We brought our own towels and pillow cases and used bleach spray (following recommended guidelines on dilution) to sanitize surfaces. Although current scientific evidence suggests that transmission across surfaces is very low.

There’s always going to be some risk and it’s impossible to know for sure what the outcome might be for your specific scenario but if you’re not interacting with other humans (contactless car pick-up or groceries at your destination) then your risk (there’s still a risk though!) should be very small.

I seem to be in a minority (although I do work in public health) but I say if you take appropriate precautions and plan ahead for any quarantine restrictions go for it!
posted by forkisbetter at 4:46 PM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]

My wife is high risk, and we've spent 22 nights camping this summer. There are virtually zero documented cases of COVID transmission from a brief encounter outdoors (passing somebody on a trail) or even a chance encounter indoors, like a public restroom at a rest stop. I can't speak to quarantine issues because I live in VA and most of our bordering states are pretending that COVID doesn't exist, so we don't have extra rules to deal with when traveling to neighboring states. But your mental health is just as important as physical health, and hanging out in a rental house with maybe a couple of masked trips to a grocery store or for take out is not any more dangerous than staying home and going to the grocery store and getting take out.

You could head to upstate NY and avoid all the quarantine issues, right?
posted by COD at 5:06 PM on October 8, 2020 [7 favorites]

Vermont has more than six hospitals. You can read about them and what's been up with COVID in the state on the Department of Health website which is actually pretty useful.
posted by jessamyn at 5:34 PM on October 8, 2020 [3 favorites]

I think you can do it and remain as safe as you are when you’re at home. We live in Boston and bought a place on Cape Cod to rent last year. We rented it all summer and for a few long weekends in September for folks doing exactly what you’re looking for. Contact-less check-in and out, cleaners that sanitize everything in between renters and a nice backyard (with a fire pit) to hang out in and a grocery store nearby that delivers. Our place needs some work on the heat so we’re not renting again until Spring, but it sounds like long weekends throughout the Fall are common down there. Places like NH and VT with even less cases would probably feel even safer.
posted by jdl at 7:18 PM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]

If you do go somewhere, I would stay closer (Hudson Valley, maybe. Dutchess County cases are low). Rent Zipcar for longer than you need it so you can wait hours before you get in the car. Keep the windows open when you get in. If you rent a house with contact free check in, get delivery, etc, your risk should be minimal.
posted by pinochiette at 8:10 PM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]

I live in ny , came up to Boston last Saturday and am in provincetown until this weekend. In before times I would have taken the train to providence rented a car and driven to the cape but as of today ri is still on the 14 day quarantine list so I took the ferry from Boston. Masks are mandatory on the pier,outside on commercial st and in shops and i see far more people complying than i have in ny (which includes nyc's finest).

In Boston I reported a cashier not complying to the local 311 and they were prompt with responding.
posted by brujita at 8:17 PM on October 8, 2020

Maine / New Hampshire / Vermont is the part of the country with the lowest infections. You're more likely to bring it here than catch it here.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:43 AM on October 11, 2020 [1 favorite]