Small diverse towns on the East coast
August 6, 2020 8:57 AM Subscribe
Are there distinct small towns in the Northeast/Mid Atlantic (Virginia and northern) that are diverse and at least moderate/liberal? Small town for me is defined with 25,000 people in town and immediate surroundings, distinct from a major metro area. Diverse in this case basically no place all white (80% is fine, 90% probably too white). Moderate/Liberal means basically a place where Biden has a good or distinct chance of winning in November. Ideally is not a college town, but seems like these all are college towns. My guidelines are pretty loose..
I grew up a tiny isolated town in WV that had 10,000 people. Growing up I loved my experience, even as a visible minority. I loved that everyone (Drs kids, teachers kids, poor kids) went to the same school, played on the same sports teams ate the same lunch (though not necessarily in the same classes). This was pre 9-11 and Trump (town voted 2-1 for him) and myself living in huge cities and becoming much more liberal and enjoying the world of diversity. My high school was 99.1% white. I was in the .9%
Wife and I are daydreaming about post NYC life and thinking about living in small towns and places with community (and relative low cost of living) where all rich kids and poor kids go to the same high school and society revolves around the high school etc. What are these places?
I grew up a tiny isolated town in WV that had 10,000 people. Growing up I loved my experience, even as a visible minority. I loved that everyone (Drs kids, teachers kids, poor kids) went to the same school, played on the same sports teams ate the same lunch (though not necessarily in the same classes). This was pre 9-11 and Trump (town voted 2-1 for him) and myself living in huge cities and becoming much more liberal and enjoying the world of diversity. My high school was 99.1% white. I was in the .9%
Wife and I are daydreaming about post NYC life and thinking about living in small towns and places with community (and relative low cost of living) where all rich kids and poor kids go to the same high school and society revolves around the high school etc. What are these places?
Practically all of northern New England (NH, VT, ME) is eliminated by your diversity criteria. (And also by your cost of living criteria, but that doesn't seem as important.) I can think of a handful of NH towns that would fit what you're looking for (Concord, Exeter, maybe Londonderry), but the lowest percentage of white people in any of them is like 91%. On the other hand, I can think of several other towns that are more diverse (such as my own town, Nashua), but they're too big for what you're trying to accomplish, or they're otherwise just horrible, horrible places to live (e.g., Lawrence, Mass. - I wouldn't live there even if you paid off my mortgage and student loans and gave me a six-figure yearly stipend).
Note also that the parts of New England I'm familiar with are pretty seriously racist. Living in Nashua (which is "only" 83% white), I constantly hear comments about how "unsafe" it is, and other such dog-whistle stuff. It's also pretty segregated, so while there may be people of color who live here, I don't ever see any of them unless I drive through specific neighborhoods (which, of course, I'm often told not to drive through).
Also keep in mind that anything within a 50+ mile radius of Boston is not a town in the sense that you're accustomed to in West Virginia. They're bedroom communities. Residents may not be commuting all the way into the city of Boston, but pretty much no one lives in the town where they work. I used to work in the 128 "tech corridor", and the <30 mile drive would frequently take me over an hour and a half. I doubt that's the kind of small town atmosphere you're looking for.
All of this is to say that you can save yourself some time by not bothering to look north or east of about Springfield/Amherst, Mass.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:47 AM on August 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Note also that the parts of New England I'm familiar with are pretty seriously racist. Living in Nashua (which is "only" 83% white), I constantly hear comments about how "unsafe" it is, and other such dog-whistle stuff. It's also pretty segregated, so while there may be people of color who live here, I don't ever see any of them unless I drive through specific neighborhoods (which, of course, I'm often told not to drive through).
Also keep in mind that anything within a 50+ mile radius of Boston is not a town in the sense that you're accustomed to in West Virginia. They're bedroom communities. Residents may not be commuting all the way into the city of Boston, but pretty much no one lives in the town where they work. I used to work in the 128 "tech corridor", and the <30 mile drive would frequently take me over an hour and a half. I doubt that's the kind of small town atmosphere you're looking for.
All of this is to say that you can save yourself some time by not bothering to look north or east of about Springfield/Amherst, Mass.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:47 AM on August 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
I have little direct experience, but some friends lived in Sharon Massachusetts, which is halfway between Boston and Providence, and seemed to enjoy life there. Wikipedia says it's 82% white, so not super diverse, but more than a lot of small towns?
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:12 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:12 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Speaking as someone who grew up in such a small town - I think you may want to change your mind on college towns, since in my experience, a small town being a college town increases the likelihood of its politics being moderate-to-left.
As much as I've railed against it in the past, you may want to consider the towns in the northeast corner of Connecticut. They're close enough to New York City that they're a bit more diverse, plus the University of Connecticut's main campus is in that part of the state; but they're also far enough away from New York City that you don't get the "bedroom community" effect.
My home town in particular is also, for Connecticut, a little more diverse; it's only 66% white, and 39.8% Latino. It's close enough to the UConn main campus that we regularly popped over for cultural events, and their performing arts students regularly toured local schools. In addition, one of Connecticut's state universities is based there. There's also a very active local community theater, and some older arts groups, that have served to shift the needle a bit in terms of community outlook.
My home town has some disadvantages (mostly economic) that make me hesitate to recommend it outright; but there are enough small towns close by that I feel comfortable recommending that general area.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:14 AM on August 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
As much as I've railed against it in the past, you may want to consider the towns in the northeast corner of Connecticut. They're close enough to New York City that they're a bit more diverse, plus the University of Connecticut's main campus is in that part of the state; but they're also far enough away from New York City that you don't get the "bedroom community" effect.
My home town in particular is also, for Connecticut, a little more diverse; it's only 66% white, and 39.8% Latino. It's close enough to the UConn main campus that we regularly popped over for cultural events, and their performing arts students regularly toured local schools. In addition, one of Connecticut's state universities is based there. There's also a very active local community theater, and some older arts groups, that have served to shift the needle a bit in terms of community outlook.
My home town has some disadvantages (mostly economic) that make me hesitate to recommend it outright; but there are enough small towns close by that I feel comfortable recommending that general area.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:14 AM on August 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
Culpepper VA might meet your description, though cost of living there is going up with people retiring from DC and moving out to the country or buying there and commuting in. Staunton is fairly nice.
Some of the towns surrounding the Raleigh/Durham area might meet your criteria.
A big thing I would suggest that you add to your criteria is looking at what supports the local economy. If it's already crumbling or there's a single employer with a reasonable chance of going under, that makes the area a lot more risky to move into, both as far as culture and the ability to sell and get out if needed.
As with EmpressCallipygos, I'd suggest you examine the aversion to college towns, as they tend to provide the things you're looking for and provide the economic bedrock that keeps towns like that healthy. There tends to be areas outside of the college kid party zones that you get the benefits of relatively small town life while still having the culture, employment, and schools that you want. You just want to stay clear of downtown on a football weekend or whatever.
Growing up I loved my experience, even as a visible minority. I loved that everyone (Drs kids, teachers kids, poor kids) went to the same school, played on the same sports teams ate the same lunch (though not necessarily in the same classes).
Keep in mind the world has changed a lot since then. Politics have been a lot more polarized so your experience may not map to your children's.
posted by Candleman at 10:25 AM on August 6, 2020
Some of the towns surrounding the Raleigh/Durham area might meet your criteria.
A big thing I would suggest that you add to your criteria is looking at what supports the local economy. If it's already crumbling or there's a single employer with a reasonable chance of going under, that makes the area a lot more risky to move into, both as far as culture and the ability to sell and get out if needed.
As with EmpressCallipygos, I'd suggest you examine the aversion to college towns, as they tend to provide the things you're looking for and provide the economic bedrock that keeps towns like that healthy. There tends to be areas outside of the college kid party zones that you get the benefits of relatively small town life while still having the culture, employment, and schools that you want. You just want to stay clear of downtown on a football weekend or whatever.
Growing up I loved my experience, even as a visible minority. I loved that everyone (Drs kids, teachers kids, poor kids) went to the same school, played on the same sports teams ate the same lunch (though not necessarily in the same classes).
Keep in mind the world has changed a lot since then. Politics have been a lot more polarized so your experience may not map to your children's.
posted by Candleman at 10:25 AM on August 6, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks! The college town comment was not because I'm averse to college town living is because I assume college towns easily (except sometimes size and diversity) fit the criteria. I love college towns. I was just hoping to find non college town examples.
posted by sandmanwv at 10:28 AM on August 6, 2020
posted by sandmanwv at 10:28 AM on August 6, 2020
Best answer: Maybe some towns on the Maryland Eastern Shore? For example, Easton, MD might work - 17% AA; the county it's in went Trump/Clinton 52/42 in 2016. The U Maryland Eastern Shore Medical Center is in Easton; U Maryland Eastern Shore I believe is a public, land grant, HBCU, the main campus located further south. The Harriet Tubman National Historical Underground Railroad Park is nearby.
I think there's a lot of retired monied conservative types on the Eastern Shore, too, especially St Michaels, and plenty of noisy Trump support, and by no means is this a place free from Racisim. But I'd also expect the lawyers kids and doctors kids go to public school w/everyone else. I'd expect to find social groups / friends / networks with strong liberal views in enough volume to shout back at the loud Trump support. I'm just guessing here, though.
I do think you will find that as you leave major metro areas, the Trump support gets more visible, noisier, even when it's not the majority opinion.
posted by everythings_interrelated at 10:34 AM on August 6, 2020
I think there's a lot of retired monied conservative types on the Eastern Shore, too, especially St Michaels, and plenty of noisy Trump support, and by no means is this a place free from Racisim. But I'd also expect the lawyers kids and doctors kids go to public school w/everyone else. I'd expect to find social groups / friends / networks with strong liberal views in enough volume to shout back at the loud Trump support. I'm just guessing here, though.
I do think you will find that as you leave major metro areas, the Trump support gets more visible, noisier, even when it's not the majority opinion.
posted by everythings_interrelated at 10:34 AM on August 6, 2020
Staunton Virginia has about 2 POC there, and a 6 month stint living there was hell for my mental health. It's extremely socially isolating, as someone much more accustomed to living in a far less white city for much of my life. The locals were cliquey, nobody wanted to learn or hear about experiences beyond their own town borders, and I was sexually harassed at work there and all of my peers in town took the side of the harasser, who owns a popular restaurant in town. Just a sidebar. Staunton is cute for visiting, not for living.
posted by erattacorrige at 10:43 AM on August 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by erattacorrige at 10:43 AM on August 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
some friends lived in Sharon Massachusetts
I have a few friends who live there now, it's a bit of a commuter city since it's on the train lines into Boston but it might be worth looking at. It's spendy to live in (like any MA towns that are on the commuter line) and it also has a largeish Orthodox Jewish community which, depending how local diversity is measured, may or may not show up and definitely makes for a more diverse region.
Vermont is basically out for most things but if you can handle the winter, the city north of Burlington (too big) is Winooski. 82% White, not a college town (though many students from nearby) many new immigrants. Also I like Vermont as a STATE which is helpful. The Governor is not a jackass, the policies are fairly progressive, COVID response is better here than many places (of course, low population does make that easier). I think with the exception of a few small rural areas, there are not large pockets of Trumpism and you don't get the moneyed Trumpers you can find in other places.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have a few friends who live there now, it's a bit of a commuter city since it's on the train lines into Boston but it might be worth looking at. It's spendy to live in (like any MA towns that are on the commuter line) and it also has a largeish Orthodox Jewish community which, depending how local diversity is measured, may or may not show up and definitely makes for a more diverse region.
Vermont is basically out for most things but if you can handle the winter, the city north of Burlington (too big) is Winooski. 82% White, not a college town (though many students from nearby) many new immigrants. Also I like Vermont as a STATE which is helpful. The Governor is not a jackass, the policies are fairly progressive, COVID response is better here than many places (of course, low population does make that easier). I think with the exception of a few small rural areas, there are not large pockets of Trumpism and you don't get the moneyed Trumpers you can find in other places.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
There's also all the towns in the Hudson River Valley in New York State; that region has almost become stereotypical for being the home to new residents from Brooklyn who have moved up in search of what you're seeking.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:48 AM on August 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:48 AM on August 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Lancaster PA is larger than you mentioned, but has a large Hispanic and Latino population, and is very welcoming to refugees. Some smaller towns around the area are probably similar, though I don't know how integrated they are.
posted by sepviva at 11:17 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by sepviva at 11:17 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
You may want have a look at PolicyMap, which allows you to identify small towns visually. I looked in VA and north and found 5 cities in pale lavender, indicating an estimated population of <35k: Cambridge, MD (34% nonwhite), Vineyard Haven, MA (12%), Bennington, VT (4%, although there's a part of town that's 15% nonwhite), Seneca Falls NY (9%), and Malone, NY (18%).
PolicyMap will let you drill down into communities to understand stuff like incomes/spending, schools, healthcare, housing, and quality of life. Good luck!
posted by acridrabbit at 12:06 PM on August 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
PolicyMap will let you drill down into communities to understand stuff like incomes/spending, schools, healthcare, housing, and quality of life. Good luck!
posted by acridrabbit at 12:06 PM on August 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
One of the things you'll find a lot south of the Mason-Dixon line in those lower cost of living places, and in some other parts of the country too, is the propensity for white families to send their kids to private schools, many of which were founded as "segregation academies" in the years after the Brown decision. Now they call themselves Christian schools and they are very white and not, in my opinion, very Christian. So yeah, your best bet is gonna be college towns. I definitely think one way to research a town other than demographics is to see how many private schools they have and then check out their websites to see how white they are, when they were founded, etc. A high number of such schools means that the public schools are most likely seriously underfunded because the are somewhat dependent on local taxes.
posted by mareli at 2:18 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mareli at 2:18 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Fredricksburg VA ? Population about 30k, 73% white, strongly Democratic since the late 80s. Downside is that to get anywhere else you have to deal with the hellscape that is I-95.
posted by basalganglia at 5:36 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by basalganglia at 5:36 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Maybe consider some towns around Providence RI? I immediately thought of Pawtucket but it's too big for you. Very diverse area with Latinos and Brazilians and the whole state obviously has a little bit of a smaller town vibe. Also easy to get to both Boston and NYC metropolitan areas.
posted by genmonster at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by genmonster at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lancaster PA is a tourist hub (for visitors to gawk at the Amish as they drive along roads in their buggies) but is not a haven of small town homogeneity. It has experienced tremendous growth of both the suburbs and exurbs, and is a frequent touch-down for Trump and Pence because it has a fundamentally conservative population, though I think its conservatism is generally of a more traditional flavor than the angry Trump variety. The Hispanic population came there to work on farms, and while downtown Lancaster has a large Hispanic population, the suburbs are largely white. There is not a lot of what I would consider culture - theater, for example, except for the two bus-trip destination revival houses that cater to tourists who combine Amish gawking with a show. There are destination outlet malls. It's always struck me as a weirdly discordant place.
I have certainly heard from several people that the explosion of Hispanic restaurants in downtown Lancaster are truly worth a trip - the city itself might be a fabulous place to settle, but the environs, probably not so much. There is a good medical system and a couple of really great hospitals (Lancaster General and Geisinger Medical Center fairly close) so there is great medical care if that is an issue.
You might look at Delaware and Maryland, and particularly the Eastern Shore of Maryland. Chestertown, Md. in particular is both picturesque and affordable. Keep in mind that both states, in small-town areas, are semi-rural or rural, and might not fulfill all your cultural requirements. Medical care for complicated issues would default to Wilmington, Philadelphia, or Baltimore, so it that's an issue this might be too rural. I also can't speak to the political leaning with any authority, but Joe Biden is from Delaware and Maryland's governor is progressive, for a Republican.
I think college towns might be much more interesting destinations. Perhaps towns with smaller colleges would be worth exploring? The students rotate through as they attend school and graduate, but the staff and faculty build lives and stay nearby. They are much more likely to have bookshops, theater groups, art galleries, and so forth, yet have a stable core population.
posted by citygirl at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2020
I have certainly heard from several people that the explosion of Hispanic restaurants in downtown Lancaster are truly worth a trip - the city itself might be a fabulous place to settle, but the environs, probably not so much. There is a good medical system and a couple of really great hospitals (Lancaster General and Geisinger Medical Center fairly close) so there is great medical care if that is an issue.
You might look at Delaware and Maryland, and particularly the Eastern Shore of Maryland. Chestertown, Md. in particular is both picturesque and affordable. Keep in mind that both states, in small-town areas, are semi-rural or rural, and might not fulfill all your cultural requirements. Medical care for complicated issues would default to Wilmington, Philadelphia, or Baltimore, so it that's an issue this might be too rural. I also can't speak to the political leaning with any authority, but Joe Biden is from Delaware and Maryland's governor is progressive, for a Republican.
I think college towns might be much more interesting destinations. Perhaps towns with smaller colleges would be worth exploring? The students rotate through as they attend school and graduate, but the staff and faculty build lives and stay nearby. They are much more likely to have bookshops, theater groups, art galleries, and so forth, yet have a stable core population.
posted by citygirl at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks for the suggestions! The comment about the south is exactly why not looking for the South in my target.
Eastern Shore of MD is somewhere I've never been and seems very different, maybe similar to VA. The demographics seem very southern but the towns look like colonial towns in NY.
posted by sandmanwv at 11:03 AM on August 7, 2020
Eastern Shore of MD is somewhere I've never been and seems very different, maybe similar to VA. The demographics seem very southern but the towns look like colonial towns in NY.
posted by sandmanwv at 11:03 AM on August 7, 2020
Fredericksburg is good as long as you stay in the city limits. Fredericksburg is surrounded by Trumplandia.
posted by COD at 2:03 PM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by COD at 2:03 PM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
My experience is from many moons ago, but I spent 4 years on the Eastern Shore in elementary school on the VA/MD border. As a kid, I loved it. As an adult, I think I’d be even more frustrated than my parents were. We were two hours from VA Beach and 4 from Baltimore, and there was a movie theater at the mall in Salisbury about an hour away from where we lived. I think Pocomoke has a Walmart now. Funny story, I was chatting with my neighbors behind me a few months ago, and it turns out that the husband of the couple and I went to school together a grade apart. When their kids became old enough to process things, they moved to Wilmington (NC) about 4 or so years ago. We figured out we came from the same place when I explained I spent some time as a child in an area in BFE and while I thought it was great, there was a lot of boredom for adults and economic depression that was visible to even a kid in the 80s/90s and I was never again interested in needing to drive 20 minutes one way to a grocery store. They were like “holy crap you also grew up on the Eastern Shore!”
The food is great (oysters-salties-can’t be beat), the beaches and landscape are beautiful, there are a lot of opportunities for outdoor recreation, and there are 4 distinct seasons. People were very nice, but provincial. Be prepared to travel to do *anything* related to urban living/amenities unless you live in an area at least the size of Salisbury.
Bring bug spray.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:55 PM on August 9, 2020
The food is great (oysters-salties-can’t be beat), the beaches and landscape are beautiful, there are a lot of opportunities for outdoor recreation, and there are 4 distinct seasons. People were very nice, but provincial. Be prepared to travel to do *anything* related to urban living/amenities unless you live in an area at least the size of Salisbury.
Bring bug spray.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:55 PM on August 9, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
I don't live there but have gone for weekend stays to see plays at the American Shakespeare Center (which is great and well worth a visit if you like theater).
posted by tuesdayschild at 9:32 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]