NOT NARRATOR ways to have Windows read stuff aloud?
July 29, 2020 10:26 PM Subscribe
I'm back with a follow-up question (after this) for my friend who has visual impairment. They need a way to scroll over things on their computer and have Windows read it aloud, something better than Narrator, which does not work and sucks. (Details after the cut.)
Narrator goes crazy reading every damn thing on the screen, along with spouting weird tech gibberish that sounds kind of like HMTL. You go to the Google homepage, for example, and Narrator is hollering stuff like ABOUT STORE GMAIL IMAGES PNG FIELD BLANK SNK 9 GOOGLE SEARCH FIELD BLANK SNK HREF DASH DASH FIELD BLANK!! Narrator absolutely does not work for my friend's purposes but we haven't found anything better. What we really need is a nice simple deal where the program will just read text as you specifically scroll over it, without blasting you with every word that's on the page and plenty of words that aren't. So, in the Google example, as you scroll over About a voice will say "About," then as you move over to Store the voice will say "Store," etc. Does such a program exist for Windows 10? They'd mostly use it online, with Firefox, but it would be even more useful if they could also use it offline in Word, etc.
Narrator goes crazy reading every damn thing on the screen, along with spouting weird tech gibberish that sounds kind of like HMTL. You go to the Google homepage, for example, and Narrator is hollering stuff like ABOUT STORE GMAIL IMAGES PNG FIELD BLANK SNK 9 GOOGLE SEARCH FIELD BLANK SNK HREF DASH DASH FIELD BLANK!! Narrator absolutely does not work for my friend's purposes but we haven't found anything better. What we really need is a nice simple deal where the program will just read text as you specifically scroll over it, without blasting you with every word that's on the page and plenty of words that aren't. So, in the Google example, as you scroll over About a voice will say "About," then as you move over to Store the voice will say "Store," etc. Does such a program exist for Windows 10? They'd mostly use it online, with Firefox, but it would be even more useful if they could also use it offline in Word, etc.
Building on mandolin conspiracy's post a possible solution is to use a screen reader and rely on a list of the short cuts needed to control when the reader starts and stops.
For example for NVDA you could use the NVDA + ↓ or Numpad + shortcut to get it to 'Read all starting at current position". It puts the user in control of the process. Control stops NVDA and tabskips to the next readable element. These default controls foro NVDA can be modified if they have an existing pattern of use.
To ease the transition I would suggest printing out a list of helpful shortcuts.
A popular answer is switching to Apple to take advantage of Voice Over, which works well on Ios and desktop.
posted by zenon at 7:59 AM on July 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
For example for NVDA you could use the NVDA + ↓ or Numpad + shortcut to get it to 'Read all starting at current position". It puts the user in control of the process. Control stops NVDA and tabskips to the next readable element. These default controls foro NVDA can be modified if they have an existing pattern of use.
To ease the transition I would suggest printing out a list of helpful shortcuts.
A popular answer is switching to Apple to take advantage of Voice Over, which works well on Ios and desktop.
posted by zenon at 7:59 AM on July 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yeah I'm not really saying "buy a Mac" but as a Web developer who has to check websites for screen reader accessibility sometimes, Apple's version (Voiceover) is much better.
Also in my experience Web browsers handle screen readers differently (and IIRC Firefox is the worst one in this regard). I'm also not really saying "use Edge" but... maybe try using Edge? It might have better integration with Narrator.
On Mac, Safari works better with Voiceover than Chrome or FF do, last I checked. It's possible Edge has a similar first-party advantage with Narrator.
posted by neckro23 at 10:17 AM on July 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also in my experience Web browsers handle screen readers differently (and IIRC Firefox is the worst one in this regard). I'm also not really saying "use Edge" but... maybe try using Edge? It might have better integration with Narrator.
On Mac, Safari works better with Voiceover than Chrome or FF do, last I checked. It's possible Edge has a similar first-party advantage with Narrator.
posted by neckro23 at 10:17 AM on July 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
I should also note - you are not alone in this process! Organizations like the one I work for are here to assist and you can usually find one that will be able to provide best practices and helpful information.
To get started go to adata.org who will link you to your regional center that will be able to answer your questions and get you in touch with local organizations that can help.
posted by zenon at 11:10 AM on July 31, 2020
To get started go to adata.org who will link you to your regional center that will be able to answer your questions and get you in touch with local organizations that can help.
posted by zenon at 11:10 AM on July 31, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
NVDA is free, and JAWS is not...usually. Owing to the pandemic, "A free short-term Home Annual License of JAWS, ZoomText, or Fusion (expires August 31, 2020) is available to anyone with a personal email address in the United States and Canada."
Depending on an individual's location and other things, assistive technology grants or subsidies might be available for paid software like JAWS.
What we really need is a nice simple deal where the program will just read text as you specifically scroll over it, without blasting you with every word that's on the page and plenty of words that aren't.
Caveat, and apologies if this is pointing out the obvious: screen readers generally are at the mercy of the quality of the HTML markup and accessibility of any given web page. They're reliant on the page structure and reading order the page's markup dictates. People can also be very creative in doing things to Word documents that can bung things up for screen readers.
That said, like with any other software, screen readers take some training and practice to use effectively and well, particularly for navigating web content that is mostly accessible but still kind of dodgy. In those instances, experienced users are good at identifying cruft and skipping over it quickly. It's also a matter of tweaking certain settings based on user preference (e.g., as in this review of Narrator by an experienced screen reader user).
Hearing long-time screen reader users' audio interface in action can sound like gibberish to the untrained ear depending on the voice speaking rate they've become accustomed to and their facility with command shortcuts and keystrokes.
Again, as with any other piece of software, people with no experience using screen readers aren't going to be able to help; your friend will need some training.
The resources for that are going to depend on where your friend is located and a bunch of other things, especially given the pandemic, but there are lots of online resources for this.
The AFB, for example, has a bunch of online resources and tutorials for using NVDA.
NV Access, the organization behind NVDA, has plenty of NVDA user documentation and training material.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:13 AM on July 30, 2020 [4 favorites]