Xbox One controller + PC + USB3 = poop [why is USB cursed]
July 20, 2020 6:40 PM Subscribe
Can you help me get my Xbox One controller working on my PC?
I have an Xbox One controller that I've been using with my PC for years with no issues, but that was with it plugged into a USB2 port. I have just rearranged my desk setup around a USB3 hub, and the controller will not work when connected via USB3. There's no reason this should not work, but obviously the USB gods have been disrespected somehow.
Details: I use a Micro-USB cable to plug the controller into a USB3 port and the device shows up under Device Manager with no errors, and appears under USB gaming controllers (and games think a controller is connected) but none of the buttons/sticks do anything when pressed. The white Xbox logo light does not turn on, and if I press the logo button it starts blinking on and off. I unplug it and connect it to a USB2 to port and the white light is solid, and everything works fine.
Complications: I have tried to Google answers for this and the results are all useless, due to:
🡆 My Questions: What does the blinking light mean exactly? Is pairing at all relevant when connecting over wired USB, and if so is there some procedure I'm missing? Is there some fundamental incompatibility between this particular device (2015-era controller) and USB3? Why is this so complicated? Is there something I can do that doesn't involve upgrading to Windows 10?
I have an Xbox One controller that I've been using with my PC for years with no issues, but that was with it plugged into a USB2 port. I have just rearranged my desk setup around a USB3 hub, and the controller will not work when connected via USB3. There's no reason this should not work, but obviously the USB gods have been disrespected somehow.
Details: I use a Micro-USB cable to plug the controller into a USB3 port and the device shows up under Device Manager with no errors, and appears under USB gaming controllers (and games think a controller is connected) but none of the buttons/sticks do anything when pressed. The white Xbox logo light does not turn on, and if I press the logo button it starts blinking on and off. I unplug it and connect it to a USB2 to port and the white light is solid, and everything works fine.
Complications: I have tried to Google answers for this and the results are all useless, due to:
- I don't own an Xbox. The controller has never been paired with a console. Is pairing even a thing when connected with a cable?
- I don't use wireless, it's always been connected with a Micro-USB cable. This version of the controller does not have Bluetooth, and I don't have a wireless receiver dongle.
- I use Windows 7 and can't install the 'Xbox Accessories' Windows 10 app which is apparently used to update the controller's firmware. (But why should I have to, as USB3 is supposed to be backwards compatible?!?)
- (Obviously, it's never been interrupted while updating firmware, either.)
- I don't have a battery for the controller, so I can't try turning it on before plugging it in.
- I can't see how it would be a cable or driver issue, as this has been a working setup for years on the same computer; only thing that has changed is which port is used. But nevertheless I've tried a different cable to no effect.
🡆 My Questions: What does the blinking light mean exactly? Is pairing at all relevant when connecting over wired USB, and if so is there some procedure I'm missing? Is there some fundamental incompatibility between this particular device (2015-era controller) and USB3? Why is this so complicated? Is there something I can do that doesn't involve upgrading to Windows 10?
Best answer: Are you able to try, for experimentations sake, plugging the controller directly into the USB3 port without the hub involved? That would answer whether the hub or USB3 generally is the issue.
Is the hub powered (that is, does it have a seperate wall plug - not just powered off the USB cable)? At least with my arcade sticks, I've found that they'll work when they're the only thing on the bus, but when plugged in through a hub, the hub did not supply enough power to keep them active. If the hub has optional power, or the option to plug a second USB connection to the PC for more power, that would be a decent option to try, if you can do it.
This becomes particularly a concern if you have multiple devices plugged into that hub - USB power can actually be a lot lower than you'd think, especially if the hub does not support the Power Delivery standard.
Indeed, it may well be that if you had batteries in your control, it would in fact work because it would now have enough power.
posted by jaymzjulian at 8:37 PM on July 20, 2020
Is the hub powered (that is, does it have a seperate wall plug - not just powered off the USB cable)? At least with my arcade sticks, I've found that they'll work when they're the only thing on the bus, but when plugged in through a hub, the hub did not supply enough power to keep them active. If the hub has optional power, or the option to plug a second USB connection to the PC for more power, that would be a decent option to try, if you can do it.
This becomes particularly a concern if you have multiple devices plugged into that hub - USB power can actually be a lot lower than you'd think, especially if the hub does not support the Power Delivery standard.
Indeed, it may well be that if you had batteries in your control, it would in fact work because it would now have enough power.
posted by jaymzjulian at 8:37 PM on July 20, 2020
USB3 is separate wires from USB2. When you plug the controller into a "USB3" port, it's actually just touching the USB2 wires. Your hub is not networking the USB2 wires in its connectors properly to your computer. There may be a firmware update for your hub or it may never work, but there are USB3 hubs that can do what you want. I'm sorry I cannot name any off the top of my head.
The blinking light means it hasn't connected to a host and is trying to find one.
posted by flimflam at 10:25 PM on July 20, 2020
The blinking light means it hasn't connected to a host and is trying to find one.
posted by flimflam at 10:25 PM on July 20, 2020
Response by poster: The hub is integrated in a monitor, so I can't say whether it's powered or not, but apparently not. I tried plugging the controller directly in the USB3 port on the rear of the case and it worked, so the issue is the hub and not the computer. There is nothing else connected to this hub so I wouldn't have guessed that it was a power issue. I also wouldn't have guessed that a game controller designed to run for long periods off of a battery would need that much power anyway.
Unfortunately that doesn't really solve anything, as I still have a cable management issue to deal with since I can't use a short cord to plug the controller into the monitor. But at least I can figure something out now.
Your hub is not networking the USB2 wires in its connectors properly to your computer.
As I said in the post, it shows in Device Manager (as "Microsoft Xbox One Controller" or whatever) so I find this unlikely. How would it know what USB device was connected if the data lines were not present?
posted by Rhomboid at 10:58 PM on July 20, 2020
Unfortunately that doesn't really solve anything, as I still have a cable management issue to deal with since I can't use a short cord to plug the controller into the monitor. But at least I can figure something out now.
Your hub is not networking the USB2 wires in its connectors properly to your computer.
As I said in the post, it shows in Device Manager (as "Microsoft Xbox One Controller" or whatever) so I find this unlikely. How would it know what USB device was connected if the data lines were not present?
posted by Rhomboid at 10:58 PM on July 20, 2020
My solution would be attach (with double sided tape ;)) a different USB hub to the monitor - but this, of course, comes with the YMMV problems of which one to buy - a question I don't have a canned answer to for this problem. But it sort of makes sense - the hubs built into monitors (and keyboards) are notorious for being not great for anything other than keyboard/mouse
posted by jaymzjulian at 11:19 PM on July 20, 2020
posted by jaymzjulian at 11:19 PM on July 20, 2020
Part of the USB protocol involves a power negotiation. When a device first connects, it's allowed to draw 100mA. If it wants up to 500mA, it has to ask for it, and the computer can say no - which it will do if it thinks the port or it's using can't safely supply that power.
Xbox controllers include a vibration motor, and a battery they will want to charge, so I expect they will ask for the 500mA (indeed they may even try to implement the USB battery charging spec, which allows to request up to 1.5A). What you may be seeing is the controller being recognised, but refusing to work because it's been denied its requested power.
Now, you'd think that a USB hub built into a monitor would have plenty of power available. But it's not unlikely that the hub in the monitor is a completely standalone device, which gets its power from the USB cable you connect from the computer to the monitor, and is not connected to the rest of the electronics in there at all. There are lots of cost-related reasons that it would make sense to design it this way.
A standalone hub like that, without a separate external power supply, can often only supply 100mA to each port. This is because it will normally get 500mA from the computer port it's plugged into, and then has to be able to share that between all the ports on the hub.
The monitor designers would probably be expecting the hub ports to be used for a keyboard and mouse, and not see that 100mA limit as an issue for most users.
posted by automatronic at 2:36 AM on July 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Xbox controllers include a vibration motor, and a battery they will want to charge, so I expect they will ask for the 500mA (indeed they may even try to implement the USB battery charging spec, which allows to request up to 1.5A). What you may be seeing is the controller being recognised, but refusing to work because it's been denied its requested power.
Now, you'd think that a USB hub built into a monitor would have plenty of power available. But it's not unlikely that the hub in the monitor is a completely standalone device, which gets its power from the USB cable you connect from the computer to the monitor, and is not connected to the rest of the electronics in there at all. There are lots of cost-related reasons that it would make sense to design it this way.
A standalone hub like that, without a separate external power supply, can often only supply 100mA to each port. This is because it will normally get 500mA from the computer port it's plugged into, and then has to be able to share that between all the ports on the hub.
The monitor designers would probably be expecting the hub ports to be used for a keyboard and mouse, and not see that 100mA limit as an issue for most users.
posted by automatronic at 2:36 AM on July 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: The ironic thing is that I have a stupid gamer keyboard that requires USB3 due to RGB nonsense and wants something like 900mA, and I was considering trying to run that through the monitor's hub for cable management reasons, but I guess that's completely out of the question. (Ironic because this is a gamer-targeted monitor.)
posted by Rhomboid at 3:59 AM on July 21, 2020
posted by Rhomboid at 3:59 AM on July 21, 2020
Some Xbox One controllers support bluetooth, which could be an alternative to plugging in in via USB if your PC supports bluetooth or you don't mind buying a dongle. The older controllers can also be connected wirelessly via a specific USB adapter, according to that article.
posted by arcolz at 6:25 AM on July 21, 2020
posted by arcolz at 6:25 AM on July 21, 2020
Is your hub powered? If not, there's your problem. Powered hub or GTFO.
In my experience with a wired XBox 360 controller, they act as you describe when they're not getting enough power. They can be real touchy if plugged into a non-powered hub.
Also, it looks like there are drivers you need for Win7. In my past experience with the XB360 controller on Win7 though, they weren't strictly necessary.
posted by neckro23 at 1:34 PM on July 21, 2020
In my experience with a wired XBox 360 controller, they act as you describe when they're not getting enough power. They can be real touchy if plugged into a non-powered hub.
Also, it looks like there are drivers you need for Win7. In my past experience with the XB360 controller on Win7 though, they weren't strictly necessary.
posted by neckro23 at 1:34 PM on July 21, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
If that's not the problem, then I've got nothing, sorry. As far as I know, there's no pairing or anything like that that needs to happen with a wired connection; what you're doing should just work.
posted by teraflop at 7:00 PM on July 20, 2020