How to talk about parameters in a casual relationship
May 4, 2020 12:07 AM Subscribe
For seven months, I've been casually but regularly dating someone in an open relationship. We never talked about terms and haven't made any agreements. I enjoy our friendship but am starting to have questions about what we're doing, and where it's headed. I don't know how to start this conversation and I feel like I need to bring it up soon. Special details within!
I'm a cisgender white female in my 40s, full-time single mom, attractive, intelligent, kind of quirky. I was single for quite a long time while raising my child and just got back into the dating world about a year ago so please be gentle, I am very out of practice. Also, I am not looking for a serious traditional relationship but I do want a close friendship.
When I met "Bryan", who is about 6 years my junior, I was pretty much just looking for a regular, safe hookup. This was working, and then he asked me if we could go on dates, so we did that. It turned into a sweet little arrangement, in that we had date night every or every other week: shows, movies, nice dinners, long walks. He was always affectionate and attentive on our dates, a little spotty on texting in between but whatever. It's been a great comfort to date him, I find him interesting and attractive and there has been no serious pressure to define what we're doing or check in about it. This has been a relief.
The last date that we had before C19 hit, he was kind of closed off and very deliberately avoiding any physical affection, seemed distant but present enough. I didn't bring it up then, I'm not sure why. It made me feel insecure but we had a good time being together otherwise. I figured that it was just an off night.
He then had a procedure done and I didn't talk to him for a few weeks. Then, C19 pulled the carpet from everyone's feet...
Since C19, we've been texting, and seeing each other for social distance hikes, which are so fun. We're having a great time talking and joking, but he hasn't flirted with me or shown any kind of physical affection. We are strict about social distancing (we are not making out or anything) but he hasn't even touched my shoulder when he's talking to me, that kind of thing.
So, it hit me tonight. WTF am I doing? He's in an open relationship and I don't even know what that means to him and his partner. He and I never talked about parameters or terms or what we think we're doing. I am so very out of practice with dating and negotiations along those lines. The reasons why he might be pulling back his physical/romantic affection (besides the obvious....C19) are kind of embarassing to me, i.e. what if he doesn't find me attractive anymore, what if I'm supposed to know the rules already?
What I want is a low-pressure relationship that is affectionate and real and I don't know how to talk about this.
How do I start that conversation? Like, "hey, I noticed that you don't flirt with me anymore?" Argh.
I'm a cisgender white female in my 40s, full-time single mom, attractive, intelligent, kind of quirky. I was single for quite a long time while raising my child and just got back into the dating world about a year ago so please be gentle, I am very out of practice. Also, I am not looking for a serious traditional relationship but I do want a close friendship.
When I met "Bryan", who is about 6 years my junior, I was pretty much just looking for a regular, safe hookup. This was working, and then he asked me if we could go on dates, so we did that. It turned into a sweet little arrangement, in that we had date night every or every other week: shows, movies, nice dinners, long walks. He was always affectionate and attentive on our dates, a little spotty on texting in between but whatever. It's been a great comfort to date him, I find him interesting and attractive and there has been no serious pressure to define what we're doing or check in about it. This has been a relief.
The last date that we had before C19 hit, he was kind of closed off and very deliberately avoiding any physical affection, seemed distant but present enough. I didn't bring it up then, I'm not sure why. It made me feel insecure but we had a good time being together otherwise. I figured that it was just an off night.
He then had a procedure done and I didn't talk to him for a few weeks. Then, C19 pulled the carpet from everyone's feet...
Since C19, we've been texting, and seeing each other for social distance hikes, which are so fun. We're having a great time talking and joking, but he hasn't flirted with me or shown any kind of physical affection. We are strict about social distancing (we are not making out or anything) but he hasn't even touched my shoulder when he's talking to me, that kind of thing.
So, it hit me tonight. WTF am I doing? He's in an open relationship and I don't even know what that means to him and his partner. He and I never talked about parameters or terms or what we think we're doing. I am so very out of practice with dating and negotiations along those lines. The reasons why he might be pulling back his physical/romantic affection (besides the obvious....C19) are kind of embarassing to me, i.e. what if he doesn't find me attractive anymore, what if I'm supposed to know the rules already?
What I want is a low-pressure relationship that is affectionate and real and I don't know how to talk about this.
How do I start that conversation? Like, "hey, I noticed that you don't flirt with me anymore?" Argh.
For this specifically: he hasn't even touched my shoulder when he's talking to me, that kind of thing.
That's not social distancing. You can't touch somebody when they are six feet apart , period. I think the C19 stuff is slending ah he doesn't like me signals along with the ambiguous relationship signals.
Maybe I'd start with just talking about how C19 has changed things and what you miss? What does he miss? How has it changed your perspective on the relationship? Is this working? Dies he enjoy these dates? Do you?
But yeah, ultimately you are going to have to talk about it it is the only way to know what's going on in their head.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:13 AM on May 4, 2020 [17 favorites]
That's not social distancing. You can't touch somebody when they are six feet apart , period. I think the C19 stuff is slending ah he doesn't like me signals along with the ambiguous relationship signals.
Maybe I'd start with just talking about how C19 has changed things and what you miss? What does he miss? How has it changed your perspective on the relationship? Is this working? Dies he enjoy these dates? Do you?
But yeah, ultimately you are going to have to talk about it it is the only way to know what's going on in their head.
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:13 AM on May 4, 2020 [17 favorites]
If he's in an open relationship, he should already have some practice with advanced-level relationship communication. Also, social distancing means no touching at all, because you're six+ feet apart. This seems like something you should just ask him. "I've noticed you don't seem as into the sexual part of our friendship, what's up?"
posted by shadygrove at 1:42 AM on May 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by shadygrove at 1:42 AM on May 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
shadygrove wrote: "I've noticed you don't seem as into the sexual part of our friendship, what's up?"
I think it really is a simple as that. And probably do it soon, before you get too deep into the idea that it has anything to do with you.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:07 AM on May 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
I think it really is a simple as that. And probably do it soon, before you get too deep into the idea that it has anything to do with you.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:07 AM on May 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
The virus really is bringing a lot of things up for people. Direct communication using I statements will be useful here. I just had this exact discussion and started it by saying "I am wondering how you feel about dating right now" and then we discussed from there. I made sure to talk about how I felt ("I feel less secure and more uneasy, because part of our relationship has changed and I am not sure why") and to listen to what she had to say to me about her thoughts and feelings. If he is unable to have this discussion with you in a calm and productive way, that's also an answer about the relationship.
Also, it's not about physical attraction to you, I guarantee. It's about something else. It is probably related to the virus, which is really destabilizing. Depending on when your last date was, he may have already been aware of it (I was much earlier on this front than most people, for example, and was being "weird" about being near others back in mid February). But you won't know why there's been a change unless you two talk.
Also, I found the book Attached to be very useful, both for understanding my attachment style and for giving me a roadmap for better communication.
posted by k8lin at 4:17 AM on May 4, 2020 [7 favorites]
Also, it's not about physical attraction to you, I guarantee. It's about something else. It is probably related to the virus, which is really destabilizing. Depending on when your last date was, he may have already been aware of it (I was much earlier on this front than most people, for example, and was being "weird" about being near others back in mid February). But you won't know why there's been a change unless you two talk.
Also, I found the book Attached to be very useful, both for understanding my attachment style and for giving me a roadmap for better communication.
posted by k8lin at 4:17 AM on May 4, 2020 [7 favorites]
People who would otherwise be nonmonogamous must currently be monogamous as a health and safety practice, and he should be worried about that. You only get to be within spit distance of one person (presuming only one sexual partner lives with you). He shouldn't be able to touch your shoulder because arms aren't six feet long, and in fact if he's doing shitty social distancing (as you seem to want him to do), he's breaking the deal he's presumably made with his primary partner and could kill one or both of you and/or get thrown the hell out of his house for it. That's got to be on his mind to some extent.
So you should consider whether he's shady, for one thing. Or maybe struggling to commit to best practices. But just...beware dudes who need to get some so bad they're willing to die or kill for it. He ought to be a bit stand-offish, and I think both of you are playing a little fast and loose with quarantine best practices and should correct yourselves.
I think you should request time in advance to explicitly have a State of the Arrangement conversation, by phone or videoconference, in which you discuss a) what the arrangement was before quarantine b) what it is now c) what the best course of action will be going forward in a practical quarantine sense as well as getting on the same page as what you consider as goals for an appropriate post-quarantine time. Everything has changed now, including nonmonogamy, and it's going to require heightened communication to navigate it. It's a positive thing, to be having these conversations. You are overdue to be having them with him, but now it is very important to catch up if you intend to continue in any way in the next...year or two, at least.
Before you have this call, though, you should decide what you actually want, what you think is practical and reasonable, and in fact whether this is even a thing that is feasible right now. Don't do that thing where you refuse to have boundaries until you know what he's willing to give you, because that way lies hurt and confusion and probably a bad end.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:18 AM on May 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
So you should consider whether he's shady, for one thing. Or maybe struggling to commit to best practices. But just...beware dudes who need to get some so bad they're willing to die or kill for it. He ought to be a bit stand-offish, and I think both of you are playing a little fast and loose with quarantine best practices and should correct yourselves.
I think you should request time in advance to explicitly have a State of the Arrangement conversation, by phone or videoconference, in which you discuss a) what the arrangement was before quarantine b) what it is now c) what the best course of action will be going forward in a practical quarantine sense as well as getting on the same page as what you consider as goals for an appropriate post-quarantine time. Everything has changed now, including nonmonogamy, and it's going to require heightened communication to navigate it. It's a positive thing, to be having these conversations. You are overdue to be having them with him, but now it is very important to catch up if you intend to continue in any way in the next...year or two, at least.
Before you have this call, though, you should decide what you actually want, what you think is practical and reasonable, and in fact whether this is even a thing that is feasible right now. Don't do that thing where you refuse to have boundaries until you know what he's willing to give you, because that way lies hurt and confusion and probably a bad end.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:18 AM on May 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
The reasons why he might be pulling back ... are kind of embarassing to me, i.e. what if he doesn't find me attractive anymore, what if I'm supposed to know the rules already?
I just want to highlight what you did here - the only reason you can think of for him pulling back is because you are not enough. I'm guessing this is typical for you and you might want to examine what is going on.
From my perspective, my first guess was that something was going on with his primary partner or maybe it had something to do with his upcoming procedure. And then of course C19 is very real. And why should you know the rules when they are specific to each relationship - if anything he is the one with a partner, he should have been talking about it.
But my real point is that there are many possible reasons, you will have to ask him to find out which ones are real but the key thing is reflect on what it means about you that you assume it is all your fault. (By the way this is a super, super common thing - I'm not saying it is you should now blame yourself for thinking everything is your fault. Just think about whether that is a pattern and, if so, if it's one that you would like to change. (And yes, it is changeable but that's another askmefi question)
posted by metahawk at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
I just want to highlight what you did here - the only reason you can think of for him pulling back is because you are not enough. I'm guessing this is typical for you and you might want to examine what is going on.
From my perspective, my first guess was that something was going on with his primary partner or maybe it had something to do with his upcoming procedure. And then of course C19 is very real. And why should you know the rules when they are specific to each relationship - if anything he is the one with a partner, he should have been talking about it.
But my real point is that there are many possible reasons, you will have to ask him to find out which ones are real but the key thing is reflect on what it means about you that you assume it is all your fault. (By the way this is a super, super common thing - I'm not saying it is you should now blame yourself for thinking everything is your fault. Just think about whether that is a pattern and, if so, if it's one that you would like to change. (And yes, it is changeable but that's another askmefi question)
posted by metahawk at 10:59 AM on May 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am agreeing with what folks have said above; i just wanted to toss in that I am in somewhat similar shoes.
I also started a relationship nearly 7 months ago that developed very slowly. We had only just started a sexual relationship in February and then COVID hit. Our last kiss was March 8th. We have been taking social distancing very seriously: his job sent him into NYC frequently; I am an essential grocery store worker. He was furloughed a month ago and I am still working. For weeks, while we texted every day, and he shopped in my store, that was it. We have started social distance dating: we will go for walks around his neighborhood (he lives very close to where I work) or now that parks are reopened we hit a local park for a walk. But there's been no touching, no handholding, and it really sucks. I have even been on vacation for over a week and still nothing.
I get it. I feel like a buddy. We do flirt a bit back and forth; he's mentioned looking forward to the day we can touch each other again. But it's painful after a socially distant date two days ago where we actually held hands for only a couple of minutes (yes, really) just to see him using hand sanitizer immediately after. I feel like I have cooties.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I miss the closeness; I miss the physical touching. I am trying to understand his fear about this virus. I really don't think it's you. I'll bet it's what others outlined above: COVID fears and/or agreements in his primary relationship (especially if he feels he's at risk from his procedure); or something going on in that primary relationship.
You will only know if you ask.
posted by annieb at 12:52 PM on May 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
I also started a relationship nearly 7 months ago that developed very slowly. We had only just started a sexual relationship in February and then COVID hit. Our last kiss was March 8th. We have been taking social distancing very seriously: his job sent him into NYC frequently; I am an essential grocery store worker. He was furloughed a month ago and I am still working. For weeks, while we texted every day, and he shopped in my store, that was it. We have started social distance dating: we will go for walks around his neighborhood (he lives very close to where I work) or now that parks are reopened we hit a local park for a walk. But there's been no touching, no handholding, and it really sucks. I have even been on vacation for over a week and still nothing.
I get it. I feel like a buddy. We do flirt a bit back and forth; he's mentioned looking forward to the day we can touch each other again. But it's painful after a socially distant date two days ago where we actually held hands for only a couple of minutes (yes, really) just to see him using hand sanitizer immediately after. I feel like I have cooties.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I miss the closeness; I miss the physical touching. I am trying to understand his fear about this virus. I really don't think it's you. I'll bet it's what others outlined above: COVID fears and/or agreements in his primary relationship (especially if he feels he's at risk from his procedure); or something going on in that primary relationship.
You will only know if you ask.
posted by annieb at 12:52 PM on May 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
He's not touching you, because you are socially distancing.
Further, if it were me, I wouldn't be flirting because I'm not that keen on the sexual denial etc, and sex is not social distancing either.
I'm wondering if the issue is not so much that he's not touching you - as that has a very obvious, very logical reason, and he's clearly still devoting attention to you - but that you've realised that when you're socially isolating, that he's not in your social isolation 'bubble'.
And that he *is* in someone else's bubble.
Is there part of you that wishes you had someone in your *own* bubble?
Is there part of you that is re-evaluating what you want out of a relationship?
Totally cool to do!
Or, when you say he's in an open relationship, are you suddenly concerned that he may, in fact, be cheating on his partner? Even if that's the case, worth thinking about why that would only bother you now.
Honestly, it probably isn't the time to be making life changing decisions - it is worth talking about what point, if any, you would stop socially distancing etc, and what negotiations that would involve (ie having a collective bubble, meaning that you'd still be socially distancing from others?).
But, it sounds like you were really enjoying this until recently, and were happy with meeting every one or two weeks, for which a non-traditional relationship is usually ideal, because most relationships have more contact than that. So, given that this is a very stressful time, it's very plausible that this is mostly stress and loneliness talking.
Do figure out what you'd like to know that you haven't asked about.
Do figure out if you're happier in this relationship than you would be out of it.
Do figure out if it's stopping you in any way from being in a relationship you would be happier in.
posted by Elysum at 3:05 AM on May 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Further, if it were me, I wouldn't be flirting because I'm not that keen on the sexual denial etc, and sex is not social distancing either.
I'm wondering if the issue is not so much that he's not touching you - as that has a very obvious, very logical reason, and he's clearly still devoting attention to you - but that you've realised that when you're socially isolating, that he's not in your social isolation 'bubble'.
And that he *is* in someone else's bubble.
Is there part of you that wishes you had someone in your *own* bubble?
Is there part of you that is re-evaluating what you want out of a relationship?
Totally cool to do!
Or, when you say he's in an open relationship, are you suddenly concerned that he may, in fact, be cheating on his partner? Even if that's the case, worth thinking about why that would only bother you now.
Honestly, it probably isn't the time to be making life changing decisions - it is worth talking about what point, if any, you would stop socially distancing etc, and what negotiations that would involve (ie having a collective bubble, meaning that you'd still be socially distancing from others?).
But, it sounds like you were really enjoying this until recently, and were happy with meeting every one or two weeks, for which a non-traditional relationship is usually ideal, because most relationships have more contact than that. So, given that this is a very stressful time, it's very plausible that this is mostly stress and loneliness talking.
Do figure out what you'd like to know that you haven't asked about.
Do figure out if you're happier in this relationship than you would be out of it.
Do figure out if it's stopping you in any way from being in a relationship you would be happier in.
posted by Elysum at 3:05 AM on May 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
How do I start that conversation? Like, "hey, I noticed that you don't flirt with me anymore?"
You say "Hey I really miss being flirty, I know it's odd to do it with social distancing but do you want to try sexting, dirty talk on the phone, video chat, etc?"
We are strict about social distancing (we are not making out or anything) but he hasn't even touched my shoulder when he's talking to me, that kind of thing.
To most people strict about social distancing means, at a bare minimum, staying 6 feet apart. If you want him to touch your shoulder he's going to need to bring a long stick or something, so this will take some preparation. Maybe ask if he has a telescoping hiking pole?
The last date that we had before C19 hit, he was kind of closed off and very deliberately avoiding any physical affection
Some people have started taking precautions before others.
Have you asked about his physical distancing agreeements he has made with his primary partner or other people he lives with or who are in his quarantine bubble? That might be a good place to start, to understand his current behavior.
posted by yohko at 3:20 PM on May 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
You say "Hey I really miss being flirty, I know it's odd to do it with social distancing but do you want to try sexting, dirty talk on the phone, video chat, etc?"
We are strict about social distancing (we are not making out or anything) but he hasn't even touched my shoulder when he's talking to me, that kind of thing.
To most people strict about social distancing means, at a bare minimum, staying 6 feet apart. If you want him to touch your shoulder he's going to need to bring a long stick or something, so this will take some preparation. Maybe ask if he has a telescoping hiking pole?
The last date that we had before C19 hit, he was kind of closed off and very deliberately avoiding any physical affection
Some people have started taking precautions before others.
Have you asked about his physical distancing agreeements he has made with his primary partner or other people he lives with or who are in his quarantine bubble? That might be a good place to start, to understand his current behavior.
posted by yohko at 3:20 PM on May 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
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If he’s pulling away it’s probably not because he suddenly isn’t finding you attractive. If I had to guess, I’d say there’s something going on in his primary Relationship that’s making him behave differently with you — eg, they’re getting more serious or inching toward exclusivity or whatever.
In any case I’m not sure it’s a good idea for you to be hanging out with a dude who’s suddenly withdrawn physical affection anyway. This isn’t good for your mental health and it’s weird to me that he’d be pulling away in a way that anyone would find hurtful, and without explanation
posted by shaademaan at 12:21 AM on May 4, 2020 [2 favorites]