How do I cope with a relative around whom I don't feel completely safe?

April 25, 2020 12:46 PM

I have a relative with whom I have occasional contact. They can be fun and funny, but they also have a flip side that disturbs and upsets me. I welcome your advice regarding how to manage my feelings related to this.

My relative is outgoing and fun, but they have an aspect to them with which I have difficulty coping.

They have told me that they think all Jewish people are tight with their money and will cheat you out of yours, and that all Muslims are terrorists. They call African Americans the "n" word (I asked them to please not use that word, and their response was, "Why?") and they use a racial slur to refer to Latinos. They keep a semiautomatic rifle leaned up in the corner of their bedroom, and they carry a concealed weapon to, in their words, "Protect myself against [insert Latino racial slur reference here]." They do not vote. They don't trust banks, and so they keep tens of thousands of dollars in cash in their home safe. (They do work hard, they do pay their bills on time, and they have no debt.) On the other hand, they do not believe in wearing a seat belt, they do not wear a helmet while riding their bicycle, they do not have any insurance on one of their vehicles that they drive regularly, and the smoke alarm in their home has no battery in it. It seems to me that the things they fear are erroneous and the things they do not fear should be valid fears.

Frankly, I feel that their thinking is off. I wonder whether they have some sort of mental illness or if I am just being too judgmental. I don't feel particularly safe around them. I have mentioned my concerns to friends who have a relatively superficial acquaintance with them, and they defend them and tell me I have nothing to worry about. They seem to like my relative and think my relative is a fun, easy-going person. I think they don't know the real person; I feel as if my relative has the potential to snap.

Have you ever encountered anyone with a personality/beliefs such as my relative's? If so how did you cope with it? If not, if you were in a situation where you needed to spend time with a person who has values that make you not feel completely safe, how would you cope with it?

posted by SageTrail to Human Relations (39 answers total)

Your assessment of this person is 100% correct from my perspective.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 12:53 PM on April 25, 2020 [18 favorites]

I'm creeped out from here.

You haven't said why you have to be around them....? Them being a relative doesn't mean you need to spend time with them.
posted by bile and syntax at 1:03 PM on April 25, 2020 [36 favorites]

Frankly, I feel that their thinking is off.

That’s putting it mildly. Avoid, avoid, avoid.
posted by mhoye at 1:19 PM on April 25, 2020 [12 favorites]

Mod note: Couple comments deleted. First, genders aren't stated. Second, please don't act like you definitely can predict the future, it's fine to say "relative sounds like a high risk for x", it's not necessary to say "relative will definitely do x". Third, please be mindful that generalizations about mentally ill people can hit fellow site members in ways you don't intend so please be extra careful with that. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:22 PM on April 25, 2020 [21 favorites]

Speaking as someone who belongs to one of the groups this person goes off about- consider how others might view your continuing to support of this relative. If I had a friend or acquaintance with a relative like this that they had not cut off support to- I would view that person as unsafe.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 1:29 PM on April 25, 2020 [47 favorites]

Being a judgmental arsehole is not a mental illness. I don't know why you'd spend time with this person, and I'd happily cut them entirely out of my life and quietly be thankful they don't vote.

If so how did you cope with it?
I wouldn't. I'd simply not be anywhere near them - I don't believe in any way that 'family ties' should dictate at all the kind of person you spend time with.

However, I don't know as I see any hint of 'they are going to snap' from your description. Unless there is a lot missing from the question they just seem like a (possibly wilfully) uneducated arsehole, so maybe it is just *how much* you disagree with their views that makes you assume that it is untenable for them to happily sit in that world without *something* happening. It seems long term sustainable to me.
posted by Brockles at 1:37 PM on April 25, 2020 [14 favorites]

I won't label them, but I have family like that too.

I don't go to gatherings that involve them; the exception being funerals.

Then I'm polite but distant.

Also, don't lend them money.
posted by Max Power at 1:39 PM on April 25, 2020 [14 favorites]

I have relatives like this. Should they commit violence, it will not be because they "snapped," it will be because they're violent bigots. In other words, I don't see mental illness here, just the usual run of white suprematism. The refusing to wear seatbelts, etc., is part of the whole construction of the white male as basically immortal and not bound by any silly social rules. I'm not sure why you "need" to spend time around this person. I recognize that there may be a good reason, but if it's just social pressure, honestly, I put all these people out of my life ~20 years ago and it has only been an improvement. (Admittedly, it was easier for me because most of them were such thoroughgoingly nasty people in other ways.)

Frankly, I'm amazed you have a number of friends who would think a white person tossing around the n-word is basically harmless. (The anti-Hispanic slurs are terrible, too, but I think the n-word is a more widely recognized absolute bright line.) I'd be reconsidering my social network altogether.
posted by praemunire at 1:39 PM on April 25, 2020 [56 favorites]

I have one of these in my family. I have the absolute minimum contact possible with them, because they're a virulent racist and I'm not. Part of not being racist, for me, means not hanging out with people who are explicitly and quite clearly racists.
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:50 PM on April 25, 2020 [16 favorites]

You should trust your instincts. Your friends are wrong and do not have the full picture. Avoid this person; they are bigoted in multiple ways. Their behavior is unsafe. If you cannot avoid them, figure out how to spend the least time possible with them. And again, trust your instincts. Might they have some form of mental illness? Possibly, but it doesn't change the fact that they are a bigot and their behavior isn't safe.

If I had someone like this in my life, I would not spend any time with them at all, and would choose the family drama that might come from my firm stance not to be around them over choosing to be around them.
posted by booksherpa at 1:52 PM on April 25, 2020 [3 favorites]

It sounds as if your values are blessedly very different and you don’t have to like them or be their friend. It also seems as if some of their actions have the potential to result in significant harm to them and innocent bystanders, not because they’d intentionally cause harm but because they greatly increase their risks in respect of preventable injuries and accidents. And then there is the fact that their stated purpose of carrying a hidden weapon is to defend against unreal threats posed by certain sections of the population.

So there is a lot to question and to dislike here. Being bigoted and poorly informed and basing your decisions on things other than facts and rational assessments is not mental illness though. We all do it to some degree - just look at the people around you who you always thought of as rational, sensible folks who have been losing their shit over the pandemic. Fear is a very powerful thing.

It’s ok not to want to spend time with this person. But you won’t necessarily persuade others to share your views. Just make your decisions about any situations you’re both due to attend and be able to leave if you want to.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:05 PM on April 25, 2020 [1 favorite]

Seconding that this is not mental illness. He’s just a racist who listens to Fox News and says racist things with the outside voice, things which you believe reflect his personal sentiments.

This person is a relative. It is perfectly possible to say

“NAME, you are a horrible racist and I choose not to have you in my life. Because of who you choose to be, you are dead to me.”

There is no fucking law whatsoever that says just because someone is blood-kin that they are ENTITLED to a place of welcome in your life. He will DEMAND that place in your life. Your relatives will DEMAND that you make a place for him in your life.

But you know what the right answer is.

Read this article: Tolerance is Not A Moral Precept; It Is A Peace Treaty

Your relative (Let’s call him “Uncle Jimmy”) chooses not to extend tolerance. Therefore he can morally and justifiably be excluded from the circle of tolerance. In fact, he MUST be excluded or else his presence within the circle of tolerance erodes and poisons it from within.

“Uncle Jimmy, I do not have room in my life for a racist jerk like you. You are dead to me.”

Your other relatives will badger you, tell you that Family is more important than your self respect.

They are wrong.

You have to wake up every morning and look in the mirror and remember what you did or did not say the last time Uncle Jimmy was an unrepentant racist piece of shit, wholly uninterested in considering his behavior.

“You are dead to me, Uncle Jimmy. And your unrepentant racism is why.”

Brook no arguments. Engage in no discussions. They will lead to nowhere but sadness and disappointment. He will live out his days an unrepentant, horrible racist, and he will never change.

Your relatives sadness and unwillingness to face this reality does not change the reality. Do not succumb to their badgering, pleas, entreaties, and myriad attempts to get you to welcome Uncle Jimmy back within the circle of Tolerance.

Uncle Jimmy is a lost cause.

Given that fact, whose face are you going to wash tomorrow morning?

Best of luck.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 2:07 PM on April 25, 2020 [15 favorites]

My relative is outgoing and fun, but they have an aspect to them with which I have difficulty coping.

IMO, this isn't an aspect of their personality; what you're describing is a complete worldview. At minimum, this person is a bigot. Do you want to hang out with bigots, or have people think you're okay hanging with bigots? What characteristic or quality do you possess that they go off about when you're not around? Your appearance, your background, your friends, your hobbies or interests?

Whatever it is about them that seems fun or funny is only because (at least at the moment) you don't happen to be one of "those people". IMO, heed the gift of fear; it's warning you about this person. This is not a safe person to be around, physically, emotionally, or socially.

I am black so I am one of "those people" that your relative hates. I avoid people like them unless I have absolutely no choice otherwise. When I do have to engage with them, I keep the contact as brief and perfunctory as possible. And when people in my circle tolerate folks like your relative, I avoid them, too.
posted by skye.dancer at 2:07 PM on April 25, 2020 [40 favorites]

The only way that I've found I can comfortably deal with these people in my own family and circles is to draw hard boundaries. For me this means that I end up cutting them out entirely or writing a LOT of letters. I know that they will almost never commit the dreck they do IRL to paper, so I get to meet my relationship obligation as I see it without supporting and encouraging their mess. I get to write about my life and things going on and they get to tell me about this or that, but there is just something about it that works. I have found no other way that preserves my inner peace and sense of self.

The only reason that I do it this way and meet any obligation at all is because I think this kind of behavior and these opinions are actually delusions as if they were actual mental health problems. I have used that language as I think through my relationships like this. These are people to be pitied, in a way, but you have to find the way to pity without support or encouragement of the illness.

As far as your safety is concerned, my experience is generally that if the person is related to me and has all these opinions I personally am probably really safe - a lot of this kind of bigotry has to do with in-group protection, IME. But you have to sort that out with your own metric. I only worry about accidentally getting shot, but not anything intentional.

But almost no real-life contact at all.
posted by Tchad at 2:15 PM on April 25, 2020 [3 favorites]

Frankly, I feel that their thinking is off. I wonder whether they have some sort of mental illness or if I am just being too judgmental. I don't feel particularly safe around them. I have mentioned my concerns to friends who have a relatively superficial acquaintance with them, and they defend them and tell me I have nothing to worry about. They seem to like my relative and think my relative is a fun, easy-going person. I think they don't know the real person; I feel as if my relative has the potential to snap.

I haven't met your relative and am not a mental health professional and don't think you should adjust your thinking based on what I say (or anyone else who hasn't met them). however:

you might be right about a mental illness and you might be right that they have the potential to snap -- I take it you mean violently? -- but I don't think the two possibilities are directly related. If they are mentally ill, it sounds like the kind of mild paranoia and fantasizing that can go along with any number of official disorders; it doesn't sound like psychosis or the immediate precursor to a psychotic break, and psychotic doesn't necessarily mean dangerous anyway. UNLESS some of these prejudices you mention are new and vehement and getting more and more intense, and then I would worry a lot.

It's a pity they're so racist (what a thing to say! but you know what I mean) because I think I know what you mean when you say they seem "off" but it's easy to write off as simple bigotry, as people are going to, and that clouds the issue. It sounds like they are certainly bigoted, certainly armed and dangerous, and if they are also mentally ill on top of it, it is not the kind of illness that calls for immediate commitment in an institution or even the kind that could necessarily be quickly fixed by voluntary treatment. But I think that your strong feelings are coming from somewhere other than the obvious fact of their bigotry, and those feelings should be respected.

I think you are right to be wary and, to whatever extent possible, stay away from a sketchy person you know has a gun. Whenever you feel that a person with a gun seems very off in a way you can't quite put your finger on, you should get away from them. I think you should distance yourself but not argue with them or make a point of standing up to them, as you might (and should) to a safer -- unarmed -- person with similar prejudices. [I mean don't AGREE with them just to get along, obvs. don't do that. but don't do a big dramatic call-out thing if you don't know how they react to that kind of challenge.] they could be completely mentally healthy, as such things are assessed, but they're still a strange and off-putting person with a gun.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:24 PM on April 25, 2020 [5 favorites]

Agree strongly with QOB on the undesirability of doing a dramatic cut-off for someone who has a gun as you might for someone who is unarmed.
posted by praemunire at 2:37 PM on April 25, 2020 [2 favorites]

One mistake we make with scary-ass people is that we think their good qualities are somehow in opposition to their bad qualities. No. It's all part of a package. In order to be awful, you need some get-out-of-jail-free card that allows the people around you to excuse it. Maybe you have wealth, or power, or a great body, or a difficult childhood, or a big personality. It sounds like he knows the exact right amount of fun & funny he needs to be in order to throw racial slurs around.

One of the many things I learned from mefi favorite The Gift of Fear is that charm isn't something you are, it is something you do. If he's fun and charming, he's doing so by choice because it lets him act like a scary white supremacist and get away with it. He's not a fun guy who just happens - by unfortunate coincidence - to also be racist.

The other thing I learned from that book is that if you have a gut feeling that something is off, something is probably off. He totally sounds like a scary dude.
posted by selfmedicating at 2:52 PM on April 25, 2020 [21 favorites]

(basically, in terms of your own social responsibility as a person with whatever privilege you have, there's almost nothing you shouldn't do to confront racism in your own immediate family except risk getting shot in the face. losing friends and loved ones is just fine as a price to pay for basic decency. the first time you heard "the 'n' word" out of their mouth should have been the first time you stood up out of shock and walked out of the room to show it. in some families, with some racists, the next best time to do that would be now.

but.

if you have been going along to get along this whole time (for years?) this is a problem for you to think about on your own with lots of introspection. but I do not recommend a sudden and total pivot to saying "You're dead to me, Racist Aunt/Uncle Whatsit" when they have the power to make you, in turn, dead to them. but for real.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:03 PM on April 25, 2020 [6 favorites]

My relative is outgoing and fun, but they have an aspect to them with which I have difficulty coping.


Are you perhaps under the impression that evil people are never outgoing or fun? Do you think evil people are evil 100% of the time, sitting on their evil throne of evilness twirling their evil mustaches while doing and saying evil things? Ridiculous, right?

If you think about it for half a second, you'll realize it yourself. All evil people are people. They have great and endearing qualities, they have a bunch of people they truly love, and they spend much of their time doing good, human things like work and play and cuddling their kittens. AND they are evil people who should never be tolerated by anyone with even a passing inkling of morality.

Your relative is evil. If you choose to tolerate them and hang around with them, you're tainted. If you not only tolerate them but also justify and rationalize why they should be tolerated - by, say, pointing out their good qualities - then you're actively legitimizing evil, which makes you kinda evil too.

[I'm using the word "evil" rather than merely "bigotry" or "racism" in order to call attention to the bald fact that bigotry and racism IS evil.]
posted by MiraK at 3:09 PM on April 25, 2020 [26 favorites]

Woah, this is way worse than what I thought you were going to say. I would 100% avoid this person - nobody could possibly be fun enough to make up for this.
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:18 PM on April 25, 2020 [3 favorites]

Yeah, I'm like, I see bros laughing and cutting up and having a great time together, but there is no fucking way I'm going to be anywhere near them. Bullies always have a contingent of wingmen who laugh and fawn and have a great time.

I suggest "acts in a loving, kind and humane way" to be your criteria for socializing with someone rather than "fun." You might be surprised just how much fun you can have with genuinely nice people anyway.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:40 PM on April 25, 2020 [6 favorites]

Cut ties, stay away. Remember: when you sit down with a nazi, that makes two nazis. I’ve had relatives like this, they will either scam you or bring drama to you.
posted by evilmonk at 3:45 PM on April 25, 2020 [16 favorites]

I don't socialize with my uncle, either.
posted by phunniemee at 4:47 PM on April 25, 2020 [4 favorites]

If not, if you were in a situation where you needed to spend time with a person who has values that make you not feel completely safe, how would you cope with it?

The first thing I would do (have done) is seriously re-evaluate and redefine "need."

Just because they are your kin by marriage or blood does not give them the absolute right - or you the absolute responsibility - to force you to spend time with them. No matter what other family members who can ignore their racism, paranoia (in the vernacular sense, not the clinical sense), and gun fetishism might say.

Are they going to literally starve to death if someone from the family doesn't visit them? Does that person have to be you?

Is your only opportunity to see other family members you like and trust happen by getting together at this relative's house or in his presence? Does it have to be that way? How often does this happen? Does it have to happen as often as it does? Can you not get together with the family you like without him?

Above are just a few example questions for you to think about - they may not strictly apply to you exactly, but I feel like you need to start the process of drawing some boundaries between you and this relative (and maybe between you and other relatives who don't see the problem) and step one is that you need to think about "need."

Why do you "need" to be around them? Who says so? How often? Who are they to you? Who is defining this "need", and how are they defining it?


They do work hard, they do pay their bills on time, and they have no debt.

This. is. not. in. any. way. a. sign. they. are. a. good. person.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:18 PM on April 25, 2020 [19 favorites]

Often the bigots will control non-bigots by talking about how "intolerant" we are.
posted by waving at 5:28 PM on April 25, 2020 [11 favorites]

This person uses the n word and declines to stop when you ask them to? Uh, wow. That the person is “fun and outgoing” does not mitigate that one iota. I question why you even consider maintaining contact with this person, relative or no, and frankly, if I knew you in real life, it would make me think less of you if you did.
posted by holborne at 6:09 PM on April 25, 2020 [2 favorites]

You’re right about the relative (in fact, you’re always “right” to feel unsafe around someone.) Moreover, your friends are being jerks about this...to put it mildly.
posted by kapers at 6:24 PM on April 25, 2020 [1 favorite]

Your assessment of this person sounds accurate. They are dangerous. When I meet people who express these kinds of views and have similar behaviors I avoid spending time with them. If I have to be around them (they're a coworker or a relative) I only engage in surface level small talk because I don't want them to know anything significant about what's going on in my life or what I'm up to. Slow/neutral fade away is a great move in these settings, if you can't get out of events by being busy, being sick, having other obligations, being at work, etc.

I make sure I have a way of leaving on my own from any event or gathering where they will be present. I would never accept a ride from such a person, or otherwise put myself in a close one on one physical situation with them, doubly so if they are male, as I am female.

The last thing I'd want to do is make the person angry, so dramatically cutting them off is never a good idea. But you can mute people on social media, and become too busy to see them so often. You can respond to their texts/emails in increasingly bland ways until they just are bored, and leave you alone. You can make small talk and be easygoing without letting them into your life too much.

This person is not a good person. Paying your bills on time doesn't make you a good or kind person - plenty of violent, racist people don't have any credit card debt. (Besides, of course they pay their bills on time...to get credit or more time to pay, one would have to trust some kind of financial institution lending money, right?) It sounds like they're one misunderstanding away from committing a "self-defense" murder in a grocery store parking lot, so listen to your instincts.
posted by zdravo at 6:30 PM on April 25, 2020 [6 favorites]

Back in the 80s, this person, while considered weird and impolite, would not have been regarded as an outright danger. It’s possible, even probable, that as this relative gets older, the relative will get worse, but your relative’s attitudes are not considered a form of mental illness or a danger to himself or others. The thing is that his attitudes aren’t “abnormal,” they’re just relatively uncommon, but still widespread.

Is it possible he could be dangerous in groups or if he joined a violent mob? Sure.

But the don’t generally end up in a violent mob, and they don’t go to jail. For every George Zimmerman who ends up killing someone, there are thousands of people with his same attitudes who are basically LARPing tough guys and on their 3rd divorce.

As a white male, I never feel unsafe around these people, but you do, and from that perspective, you should trust your instincts. If you don’t feel safe, that is the only real standard that matters here.
posted by deanc at 8:18 PM on April 25, 2020 [1 favorite]

If you were in a situation where you needed to spend time with a person who has values that made you feel not completely safe, how would you cope with it?

I co-sign what zdravo has said about having one's own means of transportation out of any setting where this person is located.

Considering that OP says this virulent racist not only has a semiautomatic weapon in their bedroom but also carries a concealed weapon, I also co-sign what queenofbithynia said: By all means, use the level of privilege you have to challenge and reject racism when and where you encounter it, among people who are unarmed.

In QOB's words: "There's almost nothing you shouldn't do to confront racism in your own immediate family except risk getting shot in the face. ... I do not recommend a sudden and total pivot to 'You're dead to me, Racist Aunt/Uncle Whatsit' when they, in turn, have the power to make you dead to them. But for real."
posted by virago at 10:24 PM on April 25, 2020 [1 favorite]

Frankly, I feel that their thinking is off.

Frankly, I agree.

I wonder whether they have some sort of mental illness or if I am just being too judgmental.

These are not your only options. Being an incorrigible fuckwit is not a diagnosable mental illness, and recognizing incorrigible fuckwits as people to be avoided is appropriate judgement, not "too judgemental".

I don't feel particularly safe around them.

Your safety is clearly not their priority, so that makes sense. For what it's worth, it seems that neither is theirs.

I have mentioned my concerns to friends who have a relatively superficial acquaintance with them, and they defend them and tell me I have nothing to worry about.

Find some more insightful friends.

They seem to like my relative and think my relative is a fun, easy-going person.

There's a sucker born every minute. Remind yourself that people voted for Trump.

I think they don't know the real person; I feel as if my relative has the potential to snap.

Sounds to me like your relative has the potential to come to grief in any number of bone-headed ways and cause considerable collateral damage while doing so.

Have you ever encountered anyone with a personality/beliefs such as my relative's?

Yes.

If so how did you cope with it?

By never missing an opportunity to avoid them.

If not, if you were in a situation where you needed to spend time with a person who has values that make you not feel completely safe, how would you cope with it?

By doing whatever it took to get myself out of that situation as quickly as safely achievable.
posted by flabdablet at 10:38 PM on April 25, 2020 [9 favorites]

the paying-the-bills-on-time thing was clearly included as a contrast to the cash-hoarding and not-voting and bank-mistrusting -- to demonstrate that this person has a certain nodding acquaintance with the obligations of reality & society, is not totally disorganized or decompensating or sovereign-citizening it or what have you. I don't think the OP was suggesting in any way that it makes them a good person, much less acts as a counterbalance to the racism.

I think it was just an acknowledgment that while they may not be well, they are interacting appropriately enough with their surroundings to be considered functional by whatever measure, so that nobody else in this social circle is going to automatically agree that something isn't right upstairs with this person, other than morally.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:08 PM on April 25, 2020 [5 favorites]

In case I didn't make myself clear: OP, you have every reason in the world to fear, feel disturbed by, and not feel safe around your relative. You have every reason to distance yourself from this person. And you don't have to justify your feelings or actions to anybody.
posted by virago at 11:35 PM on April 25, 2020 [3 favorites]

They have told me that they think all Jewish people are tight with their money and will cheat you out of yours, and that all Muslims are terrorists. They call African Americans the "n" word (I asked them to please not use that word, and their response was, "Why?") and they use a racial slur to refer to Latinos

You’ve asked for advice, so here it is. Your relative is not simply ‘outgoing and fun’. Your relative is a heinous bigot and you should avoid them entirely in future.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:44 PM on April 25, 2020 [10 favorites]

At around twenty-one years old (and sometimes sooner) family is an entirely voluntary thing. Recently I found out how fantastically, almost frantically racist a certain contingent of our extended family were and decided, "No." This caused some light consternation but you know, you don't have to go along. You don't have to make a big deal of it, just don't be available when they're around. And if it comes to a point, be blunt: "I don't want to spend time with racists, even if they are 'family.'"

You degrade yourself, putting up with that kind of stupidity.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:28 AM on April 26, 2020 [5 favorites]

Just one more person saying he is a racist bigot and possibly dangerous, avoid him. You do not have to be in the same place as this person just because he is a relative.
posted by mermayd at 5:53 AM on April 26, 2020 [1 favorite]

I have a family member who is not nearly as out-there as your family member, and I haven't seen him or any of his family since I graduated from high school because of his racism, bigotry, and tendency to bring a gun to Grandma's house for Easter dinner.
posted by coppermoss at 2:37 PM on April 26, 2020 [2 favorites]

Don't have a big dramatic denouncing. Just ghost them.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:42 PM on April 26, 2020 [7 favorites]

My uncle, my dad's brother, is in this line of thinking. I do not talk to him and haven't for at least 12 years. I don't talk to any family that talks to him. I just stopped showing up to family gatherings. My life is better now.
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:02 AM on April 28, 2020 [1 favorite]