My Mom's going into sub today - in a county which just got COVID-19
March 10, 2020 6:10 AM Subscribe
Our county had the dubious honor of being the first to get hit w/Coronavirus :-/ Gov's declared a state of emergency. My Mom refuses to stay home from her elem. school subbing job, and I have given up trying to persuade her to do so. She is two years out from her leukemia stem cell transplant, is in her mid-60s and is on immunosuppressants. Should I continue trying to convince her, or just let her do her thing and keep my fingers crossed?
My Mom called her leukemia doctor (per my insistence), and his nurse said that the protocol dictates she treat COVID-19 the same way she would treat flu season... advice which - based on international reporting, etc. - worries the bleep out of me.
I'm not sure what help or advice you can give me - just looking for reassurance I guess, since I am pretty much in Chicken Little mode atm. :-/
I've tried my best to dissuade her from going - using "you're going to get yourself sick," then "you're going to get the kids sick," to "you're in the top risk demographic Mom - I really don't want to risk you getting it and losing you" reasonings but she's most definitely going and doesn't want to hear another word about it.
What would you do in my situation MeFites? Just sit back at this point, let the chips fall where they may and hope for the best? Or IYO is this situation serious to a point where I should continue trying to convince her, and - if so - how?
(Thanks to her nurses' reassurance, I highly doubt she'll stay home unless school's cancelled or her doc says otherwise)
PS: Oh yeah - my Mom's also been coughing up a storm for the past few days. Refuses to acknowledge that it could be an issue, and says "I went to the doc a few days ago, he didn't bother to give me a test"
My Mom called her leukemia doctor (per my insistence), and his nurse said that the protocol dictates she treat COVID-19 the same way she would treat flu season... advice which - based on international reporting, etc. - worries the bleep out of me.
I'm not sure what help or advice you can give me - just looking for reassurance I guess, since I am pretty much in Chicken Little mode atm. :-/
I've tried my best to dissuade her from going - using "you're going to get yourself sick," then "you're going to get the kids sick," to "you're in the top risk demographic Mom - I really don't want to risk you getting it and losing you" reasonings but she's most definitely going and doesn't want to hear another word about it.
What would you do in my situation MeFites? Just sit back at this point, let the chips fall where they may and hope for the best? Or IYO is this situation serious to a point where I should continue trying to convince her, and - if so - how?
(Thanks to her nurses' reassurance, I highly doubt she'll stay home unless school's cancelled or her doc says otherwise)
PS: Oh yeah - my Mom's also been coughing up a storm for the past few days. Refuses to acknowledge that it could be an issue, and says "I went to the doc a few days ago, he didn't bother to give me a test"
The CDC recommends During a COVID-19 outbreak in your community, stay home as much as possible to further reduce your risk of being exposed. I find this guy pretty persuasive, and he's young.
Her odds of getting Covid19 are unknown, but if she gets it, she may become extremely ill, and she would use a lot of health care resources. Depending on her health care plan, that could be very expensive. Telling people to stay home, practice social distancing, and canceling events is about protecting people from getting ill. It's also about slowing the spread of disease, which protects other at-risk people, as well as avoiding overwhelming the health care system, which is showing plenty of vulnerability. Because testing has been so limited, people in the US really don't know the actual scale of the outbreak.
Mom, I love you so much. Here are reasons why you shouldn't be in a school all day... I want you to be well and safe, and I hope you'll re-consider. She's an adult. She gets to decide. I hope she stays well.
posted by theora55 at 6:26 AM on March 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
Her odds of getting Covid19 are unknown, but if she gets it, she may become extremely ill, and she would use a lot of health care resources. Depending on her health care plan, that could be very expensive. Telling people to stay home, practice social distancing, and canceling events is about protecting people from getting ill. It's also about slowing the spread of disease, which protects other at-risk people, as well as avoiding overwhelming the health care system, which is showing plenty of vulnerability. Because testing has been so limited, people in the US really don't know the actual scale of the outbreak.
Mom, I love you so much. Here are reasons why you shouldn't be in a school all day... I want you to be well and safe, and I hope you'll re-consider. She's an adult. She gets to decide. I hope she stays well.
posted by theora55 at 6:26 AM on March 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
My nephew is a heart transplant recipient and his (very good, teaching hospital, top 3 in the country) doctors gave the same advice. I have autoimmune issues and my doctors said the same thing. This is situation normal during flu season for people with serious autoimmune issues. We already sanitize everything and constantly wash our hands. Children are low risk (his team said my nephew is fine to go to school).
My parents are high risk so I empathize.
Absent the cough, I would, given all of this, be inclined to let it go. With the cough, I think the smart thing would do is stay home and I would say so.
She may be worried she will lose her opportunity to sub if she cancels—I know when I subbed that was a real issue. She may also be worried about losing what independence she has. It is her choice; I understand why she is concerned, but I would only push it because of the cough.
posted by eleanna at 6:29 AM on March 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
My parents are high risk so I empathize.
Absent the cough, I would, given all of this, be inclined to let it go. With the cough, I think the smart thing would do is stay home and I would say so.
She may be worried she will lose her opportunity to sub if she cancels—I know when I subbed that was a real issue. She may also be worried about losing what independence she has. It is her choice; I understand why she is concerned, but I would only push it because of the cough.
posted by eleanna at 6:29 AM on March 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
Your mom definitely shouldn't be going to work sick and I don't know why she thinks that's okay, but unfortunately she is a grown-ass adult and gets to make her own decisions. If the decision is about money she needs to survive, then that's even harder.
Unfortunately for her, you're also a grown-ass adult and can choose to keep on her about it. Have you brought up that some of the kids she works with may be immunocompromised? Or their parents? How is she on hand-washing? How are the kids on hand-washing? Coughing into their sleeves?
Alternatively, can you call the school and snitch on her for being ill?
posted by bile and syntax at 6:31 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately for her, you're also a grown-ass adult and can choose to keep on her about it. Have you brought up that some of the kids she works with may be immunocompromised? Or their parents? How is she on hand-washing? How are the kids on hand-washing? Coughing into their sleeves?
Alternatively, can you call the school and snitch on her for being ill?
posted by bile and syntax at 6:31 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
If she won't stay home for her own sake she should stay home for her students' and coworkers' sake, if she's sick enough to be coughing.
Aside from the risk of infecting them, she should also consider how they would feel being stuck in a class with her coughing all the time. There's a lot of (justifiable) anxiety around, and her presence might really stress some kids out and put them in a difficult position. What can they do, ask to be excused from her class? It's also not a good feeling to know that your teacher didn't care about you enough to stay home and avoid infecting you.
And of course even if she "only" passes on a regular cold or flu or cough, that's still bad and will most likely keep getting passed on to others.
In short, I'd keep trying. If you're on close terms with any of her friends, maybe bring it up with them. And find out what the school's policies are.
posted by trig at 6:56 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Aside from the risk of infecting them, she should also consider how they would feel being stuck in a class with her coughing all the time. There's a lot of (justifiable) anxiety around, and her presence might really stress some kids out and put them in a difficult position. What can they do, ask to be excused from her class? It's also not a good feeling to know that your teacher didn't care about you enough to stay home and avoid infecting you.
And of course even if she "only" passes on a regular cold or flu or cough, that's still bad and will most likely keep getting passed on to others.
In short, I'd keep trying. If you're on close terms with any of her friends, maybe bring it up with them. And find out what the school's policies are.
posted by trig at 6:56 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Just a few days ago, I was a proponent of "just look on it as flu" approach that your mother is hearing from her doctor. There were some persuasive sounding arguments behind that viewpoint: infection and death rates from ordinary seasonal flu are considerably higher than the currently reported Covid-19 figures - yet we never saw the corresponding levels of fuss about them in the media. About twice as many people die from seasonal flu as road accidents in the US.
Dr John Campbell does a good job of explaining what the "just flu" re-assurance should not taken seriously - ( today's update). Covid-19 is a fast moving virus that is easy to contract if we don't all take countermeasures. 80% of people have only mild symptoms - good news for them but not for those they infect . 15% will have a significant illness and may need some medical support. 5% of people will need hospital support for critical illness. That 5% figure is enough to overwhelm any hospital where there is a sudden outbreak - information from northern Italy indicates that many of the people who fall into that category cannot be treated - this in a country with an advanced medical system.
Wise governments - such as China, South Korea, Romania and now Italy - have taken this sort of advice to heart. With a bit of luck, others will follow soon. In the mean time you might want to show your mother these videos.
posted by rongorongo at 7:18 AM on March 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
Dr John Campbell does a good job of explaining what the "just flu" re-assurance should not taken seriously - ( today's update). Covid-19 is a fast moving virus that is easy to contract if we don't all take countermeasures. 80% of people have only mild symptoms - good news for them but not for those they infect . 15% will have a significant illness and may need some medical support. 5% of people will need hospital support for critical illness. That 5% figure is enough to overwhelm any hospital where there is a sudden outbreak - information from northern Italy indicates that many of the people who fall into that category cannot be treated - this in a country with an advanced medical system.
Wise governments - such as China, South Korea, Romania and now Italy - have taken this sort of advice to heart. With a bit of luck, others will follow soon. In the mean time you might want to show your mother these videos.
posted by rongorongo at 7:18 AM on March 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
theora55: Re:coughing. I have asthma, caused by lung inflammation. I'm not contagious, but I have a chronic cough during a flare-up. ... When I tell you I'm certain it's not contagious, please respect that I am well-informed about my health.
Repeated for truth. It is important to distinguish between CottonCandyCapers' immunosuppressed mom recently developing a persistent cough and conditions like theora55's, which involve coughing but definitely are not infectious.
posted by virago at 7:31 AM on March 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
Repeated for truth. It is important to distinguish between CottonCandyCapers' immunosuppressed mom recently developing a persistent cough and conditions like theora55's, which involve coughing but definitely are not infectious.
posted by virago at 7:31 AM on March 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
I'm not sure what your job is, but your Mom is a mandated reporter. She's legally obligated to report possible threats to her students, even if those threats are originating from herself. Moreover, if her school district is notified and declines to act, the school district will be on the hook for the civil consequences. I would encourage you, for the sake of your Mom and her students, to report this situation to her school district without delay.
posted by SPrintF at 8:23 AM on March 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 8:23 AM on March 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
You can’t stop her. Maybe when she coughs at school, her students or colleagues will tell her to leave.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:29 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bluedaisy at 8:29 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is this a financial issue for your mom? Is she insistent on going in because she needs the money?
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:56 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:56 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Both you and your mum have been through such a rough health road for her, I assume, since it sounds like she has/had leukemia. I'm saying the below assuming that financially she would be ok.
Everyone reacts to that differently and it sounds like for her, she's putting her trust in her care team and also choosing to go about her life as normally as possible. She may be particularly set in this position if she took it while under such a serious health threat. ("I'm going to just live my life.") While I'm with you that I'd prefer she protect and her community a bit more, I find her position very understandable.
I'd talk to her about it some more, not once a day but every few days, from a position of truth and love. The truth is, you're worried about her, and it sounds like you don't agree with her care team's approach and advice. (I don't either.) I think you could say "mum, I know you're an adult. But I can't get off my mind that it sounds like your nurse and doctor were not up to date with the latest health information coming out of Italy. I just want you to know I'm scared for both you and, given your cough, your students and their families, and I wish you would take a break from substituting."
posted by warriorqueen at 9:51 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Everyone reacts to that differently and it sounds like for her, she's putting her trust in her care team and also choosing to go about her life as normally as possible. She may be particularly set in this position if she took it while under such a serious health threat. ("I'm going to just live my life.") While I'm with you that I'd prefer she protect and her community a bit more, I find her position very understandable.
I'd talk to her about it some more, not once a day but every few days, from a position of truth and love. The truth is, you're worried about her, and it sounds like you don't agree with her care team's approach and advice. (I don't either.) I think you could say "mum, I know you're an adult. But I can't get off my mind that it sounds like your nurse and doctor were not up to date with the latest health information coming out of Italy. I just want you to know I'm scared for both you and, given your cough, your students and their families, and I wish you would take a break from substituting."
posted by warriorqueen at 9:51 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Can you ask other relatives and her friends to also share their concern with her?
If it's just you expressing worry over and over, she may be dismissive. But if she hears it from 4 or 5 others, she may become more persuaded.
I've seen many people increase their level of urgency in recent weeks. It usually required hearing it from several different people in their lives.
posted by cheesecake at 10:10 AM on March 10, 2020
If it's just you expressing worry over and over, she may be dismissive. But if she hears it from 4 or 5 others, she may become more persuaded.
I've seen many people increase their level of urgency in recent weeks. It usually required hearing it from several different people in their lives.
posted by cheesecake at 10:10 AM on March 10, 2020
Once she is in the building, it is up to the school staff to send your mother home.
They may be short enough teachers to cover the classes. They may be passing out hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes. They may be revising best practices so that students and staff are not handing each other objects and papers.
Students coughing at the desks are a given. A teacher can send some of them to the school nurse, but they probably will not be sent home. Among other reasons, there may not be an adult available to pick them up during the school day. So most children stay in the classroom.
The district is responsible for making sure that employees are not working while sick, and can send adults home with orders not to return until they do not have symptoms.
At a certain point, schools must close due to staffing shortages. But they must balance that with the issue of letting someone who is obviously coughing continue to work with children.
Let your mother know that you are available to pick her up if she is not able to drive home. No judgement.
posted by TrishaU at 12:04 PM on March 10, 2020
They may be short enough teachers to cover the classes. They may be passing out hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes. They may be revising best practices so that students and staff are not handing each other objects and papers.
Students coughing at the desks are a given. A teacher can send some of them to the school nurse, but they probably will not be sent home. Among other reasons, there may not be an adult available to pick them up during the school day. So most children stay in the classroom.
The district is responsible for making sure that employees are not working while sick, and can send adults home with orders not to return until they do not have symptoms.
At a certain point, schools must close due to staffing shortages. But they must balance that with the issue of letting someone who is obviously coughing continue to work with children.
Let your mother know that you are available to pick her up if she is not able to drive home. No judgement.
posted by TrishaU at 12:04 PM on March 10, 2020
As a school administrator, if a coughing substitute showed up, after I sent them I home I would be sure to never hire them again. Endangering the health of staff and students shows an appalling lack of judgement.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:25 PM on March 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:25 PM on March 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Wishing you both the best!
posted by defreckled at 6:23 AM on March 10, 2020 [3 favorites]