Guilt About Supporting Friend's Career Decision
February 27, 2020 3:09 PM Subscribe
Last year my dear coworker quit after realizing how undervalued they were by our CEO. They had been let go multiple times only to be brought back abruptly, was paid less than interns, and never received positive feedback about their work except from me. A few months after quitting they discovered that one of our clients was hiring -- so they asked for a job and got it. I supported this decision. I still do. But now things are messy because the client has decided to cut ties with us. So I feel really, really guilty.
In general, I get that coworker going to work for a client = a bridge burner. This is not lost on me. It is especially the case now that the client has decided to leave (though the client announced this many, many months ago, long before my coworker quit, and the reasons for leaving are 100% unrelated to coworker) and made it official. The timing of everything is therefore shit. My boss has made it clear that coworker is now our enemy.
However, my coworker is so. fucking. happy working with for client. They are finally being paid market rate (three times their previous salary!). They are in charge of their own department. The client really respects them. It has literally changed coworker's life financially and emotionally.
Also, neither coworker nor the client ever signed a contract containing a non-complete clause. Coworker knows that they will never have a positive relationship with our company again. Their job here was bad enough that coworker would never have considered that as a possibility anyway, but they have told me multiple times that despite that they would speak highly of the company if ever asked. (A moot point now, I guess.)
The thing is that I now hear my boss and one other person badmouth coworker constantly. I have remained as neutral as I can be, but when things get really vile comment-wise I have said, hey, this is not pertinent to the topic at hand, let's move on. Or I say I am sad the relationship has soured and understand what has happened but I am uncomfortable with the direction the conversation is heading. So far this has worked.
While I get that bridge burning occurred, my coworker was never considered an asset. My boss was glad to let them go. Even before boss discovered that coworker had moved on to work with this client, he was complaining about how terrible he though coworker was. (I agree with only 10% of what he's complained about.) So I feel sick to my stomach hearing everything being said about them. I feel guilty that I supported (and continue to) their decision and that I am happy for them. Am I just dumb? Am I a bad employee?
Please be honest with me. I am really torn up about this. Thank you.
In general, I get that coworker going to work for a client = a bridge burner. This is not lost on me. It is especially the case now that the client has decided to leave (though the client announced this many, many months ago, long before my coworker quit, and the reasons for leaving are 100% unrelated to coworker) and made it official. The timing of everything is therefore shit. My boss has made it clear that coworker is now our enemy.
However, my coworker is so. fucking. happy working with for client. They are finally being paid market rate (three times their previous salary!). They are in charge of their own department. The client really respects them. It has literally changed coworker's life financially and emotionally.
Also, neither coworker nor the client ever signed a contract containing a non-complete clause. Coworker knows that they will never have a positive relationship with our company again. Their job here was bad enough that coworker would never have considered that as a possibility anyway, but they have told me multiple times that despite that they would speak highly of the company if ever asked. (A moot point now, I guess.)
The thing is that I now hear my boss and one other person badmouth coworker constantly. I have remained as neutral as I can be, but when things get really vile comment-wise I have said, hey, this is not pertinent to the topic at hand, let's move on. Or I say I am sad the relationship has soured and understand what has happened but I am uncomfortable with the direction the conversation is heading. So far this has worked.
While I get that bridge burning occurred, my coworker was never considered an asset. My boss was glad to let them go. Even before boss discovered that coworker had moved on to work with this client, he was complaining about how terrible he though coworker was. (I agree with only 10% of what he's complained about.) So I feel sick to my stomach hearing everything being said about them. I feel guilty that I supported (and continue to) their decision and that I am happy for them. Am I just dumb? Am I a bad employee?
Please be honest with me. I am really torn up about this. Thank you.
I wouldn't feel guilty about this at all. People are allowed to leave jobs and I see zero evidence that your coworker did anything wrong at any point in this process.
For me the main question would be finding enough sustainable strategies for coping with the badmouthing and complaining. Or, yeah, finding a new job, because your boss sounds shitty, even if what they're doing isn't directed at you right now.
posted by needs more cowbell at 3:16 PM on February 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
For me the main question would be finding enough sustainable strategies for coping with the badmouthing and complaining. Or, yeah, finding a new job, because your boss sounds shitty, even if what they're doing isn't directed at you right now.
posted by needs more cowbell at 3:16 PM on February 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
I don't understand, you feel bad about being happy that a good thing happened to someone who deserved it? Your boss sounds like a terrible person who is trying to infect you with his bad way of thinking. You feel torn because you're also a good person who feels a natural sense of loyalty to someone you spend a lot of time with. But that doesn't mean they're right. Try not to listen to a single thing he has to say going forward and I'll bet you feel a lot better.
posted by bleep at 3:21 PM on February 27, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by bleep at 3:21 PM on February 27, 2020 [10 favorites]
I can't work out what you feel guilty about... Do you feel guilty to your friend because you keep overhearing them being badmouthed? Or you feel guilty to your employer because you supported this person to leave? I can't see anything at all to feel guilty about either way, to the point I genuinely can't work out what it is you're feeling guilty about and who you think you've wronged.
On preview: OK I just saw the title of the question which explains it, sorry. But I think as my comments suggests, I feel you've got nothing to feel guilty about...
posted by penguin pie at 3:25 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
On preview: OK I just saw the title of the question which explains it, sorry. But I think as my comments suggests, I feel you've got nothing to feel guilty about...
posted by penguin pie at 3:25 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
My boss has made it clear that coworker is now our enemyThere are a very limited number of organisations in the world where this kind of attitude is healthy or viable, and most of them are military ones. Unless your former coworkers is a secret agent who's defected in the old-school Cold War style (and, because you're happy for them, it does not sound they are), this isn't a healthy way for professionals to deal with competition. You ought not to feel guilty, you should be satisfied with your support for your coworker, and you should be aware this kind of thing on the part of your boss isn't professional at all.
On preview—absolutely, always support your friends and coworkers. Never be ashamed of solidarity.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:26 PM on February 27, 2020 [34 favorites]
I get that coworker going to work for a client = a bridge burner
This may vary by industry, but in my experience this is... not at all true? A client actively poaching an employee is sometimes seen as a kind of dick move, but the employee leaving of their own accord? I've never heard of that being an issue. The employee did literally nothing wrong. You did unbelievably nothing wrong. Your boss & employer are terrible and toxic and you should leave.
posted by brainmouse at 3:29 PM on February 27, 2020 [54 favorites]
This may vary by industry, but in my experience this is... not at all true? A client actively poaching an employee is sometimes seen as a kind of dick move, but the employee leaving of their own accord? I've never heard of that being an issue. The employee did literally nothing wrong. You did unbelievably nothing wrong. Your boss & employer are terrible and toxic and you should leave.
posted by brainmouse at 3:29 PM on February 27, 2020 [54 favorites]
Let's start with the guilt you feel over your co-worker's departure. Based on what you've said here, your co-worker's decision to take a better job for better pay at a workplace where he/she is valued had nothing to do with you. Your co-worker didn't owe your employer a thing. You should stop beating yourself up about it. It's possible for you to be both supportive to your co-worker and happy for that person, AND be a loyal employee to your employer.
As for the badmouthing, well, it sounds like you're the only one acting like an adult about it. Is your boss scapegoating your former co-worker for the end of the relationship with the client company? I respect your attempts to cool tempers. Unless it costs you in social capital at work, there's value in being the voice of reason in the room.
It sounds like there's some unhealthy office culture at your present workplace, and you're trying to maintain professional behavior among some folks who are acting petty. They're angry about the loss of a client. In time, I hope they'll get over it, for your sake.
posted by cleverevans at 3:29 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
As for the badmouthing, well, it sounds like you're the only one acting like an adult about it. Is your boss scapegoating your former co-worker for the end of the relationship with the client company? I respect your attempts to cool tempers. Unless it costs you in social capital at work, there's value in being the voice of reason in the room.
It sounds like there's some unhealthy office culture at your present workplace, and you're trying to maintain professional behavior among some folks who are acting petty. They're angry about the loss of a client. In time, I hope they'll get over it, for your sake.
posted by cleverevans at 3:29 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
Please go read Ask a Manager. Some old questions and answers will quickly convince you that you have nothing to feel bad or guilty about. Companies are not families, regardless of whatever fucking mottos they may use or whatever they may say in various meetings. You don’t owe your boss any loyalty, you have nothing to feel guilty about, apparently you are doing a good job, so just do your best to block out or ignore the bullshit when your boss starts trash talking about your friend. Your boss’s opinions are clearly worthless, so please don’t let this bozo’s commentary tear you up inside.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:30 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 3:30 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am really torn up about this.
About what? I'm serious. About what? About the fact that a client decided to cut ties with your company? About the fact that your former co-worker is happy? About the fact that your current co-workers are mad? What does any of this have to do with you?
Seriously, I can't figure out what you are bothered about.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 3:38 PM on February 27, 2020 [17 favorites]
About what? I'm serious. About what? About the fact that a client decided to cut ties with your company? About the fact that your former co-worker is happy? About the fact that your current co-workers are mad? What does any of this have to do with you?
Seriously, I can't figure out what you are bothered about.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 3:38 PM on February 27, 2020 [17 favorites]
I get that coworker going to work for a client = a bridge burner
Huh? In my previous industry this happened all. the. time. In both directions, even. It was actually considered a good thing because it increased the relationships between the organizations.
Otherwise, what everyone else said.
posted by rednikki at 3:42 PM on February 27, 2020 [7 favorites]
Huh? In my previous industry this happened all. the. time. In both directions, even. It was actually considered a good thing because it increased the relationships between the organizations.
Otherwise, what everyone else said.
posted by rednikki at 3:42 PM on February 27, 2020 [7 favorites]
In many companies, going to work for a client is typical. Your company, specifically, it sounds like, your CEO, was dumb. Despite every indication that co-worker was smart, capable, and valuable, they chose to not value the employee. Natural and logical consequence = co-worker leaves, finds a new home that loves them. CEO is just smart enough to figure out they screwed up, and in typical moronic fashion, blames the person they screwed.
You're fine. You might want to think about your options for working in a smarter, nicer company. You don't want to join the pileon of former co-worker, and they are unimaginative dolts who can't discuss anything else. Keep a mental list of Distraction Topics. Srsly, every day, scan the news and reddit for hot topics. Blah, blah, former co-worker is Satan incarnate.
*Have we thought about our plans in case of coronavirus quarantine in this area?*
*OMG, SC primary, debate, Super Tuesday, blah, blah*
*Is Bernie Sanders a Socialist, a Social Dem, a Dem Soc, WTF?*
*Have you seen Parasite?*
*Local Sportsball Team comment*
posted by theora55 at 3:52 PM on February 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
You're fine. You might want to think about your options for working in a smarter, nicer company. You don't want to join the pileon of former co-worker, and they are unimaginative dolts who can't discuss anything else. Keep a mental list of Distraction Topics. Srsly, every day, scan the news and reddit for hot topics. Blah, blah, former co-worker is Satan incarnate.
*Have we thought about our plans in case of coronavirus quarantine in this area?*
*OMG, SC primary, debate, Super Tuesday, blah, blah*
*Is Bernie Sanders a Socialist, a Social Dem, a Dem Soc, WTF?*
*Have you seen Parasite?*
*Local Sportsball Team comment*
posted by theora55 at 3:52 PM on February 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
I read a lot of Ask a Manager, and one of the things that comes up a lot is that if you spend too long in a toxic work environment, it completely warps your sense of normal.
Agree with above that it's normal for employees to go work for clients, vendors, etc. Our new Head of Product at my (software) company came from one of our customers!
posted by radioamy at 4:04 PM on February 27, 2020 [12 favorites]
Agree with above that it's normal for employees to go work for clients, vendors, etc. Our new Head of Product at my (software) company came from one of our customers!
posted by radioamy at 4:04 PM on February 27, 2020 [12 favorites]
They had been let go multiple times only to be brought back abruptly,
I dunno, I feel like the bridge got burnt somewhere in the first 2-3 times the company fired Coworker. If you want someone to stay loyal, don’t literally tell them not to work for you anymore.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:06 PM on February 27, 2020 [29 favorites]
I dunno, I feel like the bridge got burnt somewhere in the first 2-3 times the company fired Coworker. If you want someone to stay loyal, don’t literally tell them not to work for you anymore.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:06 PM on February 27, 2020 [29 favorites]
The thing is that I now hear my boss and one other person badmouth coworker constantly. I have remained as neutral as I can be, but when things get really vile comment-wise I have said, hey, this is not pertinent to the topic at hand, let's move on. Or I say I am sad the relationship has soured and understand what has happened but I am uncomfortable with the direction the conversation is heading. So far this has worked.
I think this is an excellent way of handling this. Your boss and the other badmouther are entirely in the wrong but a gentle deflection is probably the best you can do (until you can, hopefully, leave for friendlier pastures). You're not being disloyal to your company by refusing to join in the badmouthing, and you're not being disloyal to your former coworker by not taking up arms to defend her honor.
posted by Jeanne at 4:07 PM on February 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think this is an excellent way of handling this. Your boss and the other badmouther are entirely in the wrong but a gentle deflection is probably the best you can do (until you can, hopefully, leave for friendlier pastures). You're not being disloyal to your company by refusing to join in the badmouthing, and you're not being disloyal to your former coworker by not taking up arms to defend her honor.
posted by Jeanne at 4:07 PM on February 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
Count me among the people who don't understand why you feel guilty. This doesn't sounds like a great place to work - perhaps you can ask your friend if the client is hiring?
posted by Ragged Richard at 4:20 PM on February 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Ragged Richard at 4:20 PM on February 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
Nthing that you seem to be inside a reality distortion field, your boss and their coterie of haters are toxic AF, and you should be looking for a job in a healthier workplace, because there's no reason to feel guilty about any of this.
posted by mumkin at 4:20 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mumkin at 4:20 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
The former employee didn't burn a bridge. Your CEO burned a bridge. Now employee is at client and free to speak the truth to people in the industry.
You should maintain good relationships with people because industries tend to be small worlds and you never know who you will run into again. However you dont have to badmouth them now that theyre gone, nor do you have to defend them.
posted by perdhapley at 4:46 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
You should maintain good relationships with people because industries tend to be small worlds and you never know who you will run into again. However you dont have to badmouth them now that theyre gone, nor do you have to defend them.
posted by perdhapley at 4:46 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
Well... is your competitor hiring? Seriously, it sounds like a much better place to work (and you've got an in!)
From what I've heard you owe the company, and your toxic boss, very little. Find something better if you possibly can.
posted by emmet at 4:51 PM on February 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
From what I've heard you owe the company, and your toxic boss, very little. Find something better if you possibly can.
posted by emmet at 4:51 PM on February 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
Go work for your ex-coworker. Now.
posted by signal at 5:00 PM on February 27, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by signal at 5:00 PM on February 27, 2020 [10 favorites]
Also, I've had many ex-employees go to work for other companies and end up bringing me their business. Because I'm not an asshole and I try to treat my employees OK.
posted by signal at 5:01 PM on February 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by signal at 5:01 PM on February 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
Are you keeping count of how many are advising you to job-search at your co-worker's company?
Don't burn bridges (until it's a done deal), don't bad-mouth (nobody wants to hire someone with bad habits), and keep your eyes and ears open for a better position.
Toxic companies tend to implode. It's a job, not a marriage. Guilt is for the second helping of cheesecake.
posted by TrishaU at 6:36 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
Don't burn bridges (until it's a done deal), don't bad-mouth (nobody wants to hire someone with bad habits), and keep your eyes and ears open for a better position.
Toxic companies tend to implode. It's a job, not a marriage. Guilt is for the second helping of cheesecake.
posted by TrishaU at 6:36 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
Am I a bad employee?
Your boss is the bad employee, not you.
posted by sallybrown at 6:37 PM on February 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
Your boss is the bad employee, not you.
posted by sallybrown at 6:37 PM on February 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
You should be overjoyed that this event has revealed in indelible and irrefutable terms what a terrible company you work for and how horrible your boss and coworkers are. When your boss dies, I guarantee that people will celebrate. Discovering this is a BLESSING.
GTFO of there and go where you don't need a moral shower every time you come home. You really shouldn't work there unless you are also a garbage individual–and it seems from your post that you're pretty far in the other direction.
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 6:51 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
GTFO of there and go where you don't need a moral shower every time you come home. You really shouldn't work there unless you are also a garbage individual–and it seems from your post that you're pretty far in the other direction.
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 6:51 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
Never feel guilty about valuing a person above a company.
posted by Mavri at 6:52 PM on February 27, 2020 [19 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 6:52 PM on February 27, 2020 [19 favorites]
I get that coworker going to work for a client = a bridge burner
This is... not true. Maybe if you went to work for a competitor, but a client? You are repeating something not the norm, spread by your very bad employer.
Your feelings of guilt are a symptom of being in a dysfunctional workplace. This can badly effect your perception of what is normal and acceptable in a professional environment. You should strongly consider seeking a new job as this has the potential to follow you in your career. Ask a Manager has more here.
Despite this, you are responding remarkably well. Your response is absolutely perfect. You have done absolutely nothing wrong.
posted by like_neon at 1:27 AM on February 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is... not true. Maybe if you went to work for a competitor, but a client? You are repeating something not the norm, spread by your very bad employer.
Your feelings of guilt are a symptom of being in a dysfunctional workplace. This can badly effect your perception of what is normal and acceptable in a professional environment. You should strongly consider seeking a new job as this has the potential to follow you in your career. Ask a Manager has more here.
Despite this, you are responding remarkably well. Your response is absolutely perfect. You have done absolutely nothing wrong.
posted by like_neon at 1:27 AM on February 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
It is especially the case now that the client has decided to leave (though the client announced this many, many months ago, long before my coworker quit, and the reasons for leaving are 100% unrelated to coworker) and made it official. The timing of everything is therefore shit. My boss has made it clear that coworker is now our enemy.
If your boss was competent, they would be reaching out to your friend on a regular basis and saying something along the lines of "I'm so sorry we didn't fully appreciate you when we had you on our team, but we'd love to get [client]'s business back. You've got an ideal perspective on the situation now, so if you know of any way we can change/improve/update things on our end to get closer to that, I'd really love to buy you a cup of coffee some time."
posted by Rock Steady at 5:06 AM on February 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
If your boss was competent, they would be reaching out to your friend on a regular basis and saying something along the lines of "I'm so sorry we didn't fully appreciate you when we had you on our team, but we'd love to get [client]'s business back. You've got an ideal perspective on the situation now, so if you know of any way we can change/improve/update things on our end to get closer to that, I'd really love to buy you a cup of coffee some time."
posted by Rock Steady at 5:06 AM on February 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
"realizing how undervalued they were by our CEO" == bridge burner
"They had been let go multiple times only to be brought back abruptly" == bridge burner
"paid less than interns" == bridge burner
"never received positive feedback about their work except from me" == bridge burner
I mean c'mon.
posted by disconnect at 7:25 AM on February 28, 2020 [12 favorites]
"They had been let go multiple times only to be brought back abruptly" == bridge burner
"paid less than interns" == bridge burner
"never received positive feedback about their work except from me" == bridge burner
I mean c'mon.
posted by disconnect at 7:25 AM on February 28, 2020 [12 favorites]
It sounds like your boss is a horrible person who got sick pleasure out of treating this person abusively, and now they are seething because they can longer do so.
You shouldn’t feel any guilt about helping your friend break free. You deserve to be as happy as your friend; you shouldn’t have to work for such a monster.
posted by blueberry at 7:33 AM on March 3, 2020
You shouldn’t feel any guilt about helping your friend break free. You deserve to be as happy as your friend; you shouldn’t have to work for such a monster.
posted by blueberry at 7:33 AM on March 3, 2020
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You should be looking for a new job. You don't have to live like this. Always support your friends, and only fake loyalty for as long as necessary to the people who think they own you.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:15 PM on February 27, 2020 [127 favorites]