Who was a gay icon of the 1970s?
February 9, 2020 3:37 AM Subscribe
Who were the trailblazing 'out' celebrities of the 1970s (in the U.S.) who made it cool to be gay, before HIV/AIDS became stigmatized? I'm looking for household names from that era. Elton John doesn't fit as he was not out in the 70s.
Growing up as a teenager in the 1970s (in the UK), I can't recall any celebrity who was 'out'. There were definitely those who were extremely camp, such as Larry Grayson (an English comedian). But homophobia was rife in the UK and, as far as I know, he chose to live a celibate life rather than leave himself open to public vilification and certain career ruination.
Likewise, Frankie Howerd and Kenneth Williams, albeit they led a very 'out' lifestyle when on holiday in Morocco. In the days before the internet, it was possible to be gay away from home.
Musically, I suppose the Village People were the most flagrantly 'out' band of the day, but could get away with it because of the 'comedy' element of their personas and performances. In the 1970s, in the UK at any rate, homosexuals were either to be despised or laughed at.
posted by essexjan at 3:48 AM on February 9, 2020
Likewise, Frankie Howerd and Kenneth Williams, albeit they led a very 'out' lifestyle when on holiday in Morocco. In the days before the internet, it was possible to be gay away from home.
Musically, I suppose the Village People were the most flagrantly 'out' band of the day, but could get away with it because of the 'comedy' element of their personas and performances. In the 1970s, in the UK at any rate, homosexuals were either to be despised or laughed at.
posted by essexjan at 3:48 AM on February 9, 2020
This PDF from Forge Forward is an LGBT history timeline and lists in 1975 that "Footballer David Kopay is first major sports start [sic] to come out (voluntarily) publicly." I believe Billie Jean King came out reluctantly in 1981. As a 70's kid, that's the first person I think of as a gay icon.
posted by cocoagirl at 4:34 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by cocoagirl at 4:34 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Truman Capote was openly gay in the New York Times in 1978, but was he a household name then?
posted by Jason and Laszlo at 4:55 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Jason and Laszlo at 4:55 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
As a clueless 70s North American teenager and consumer of popular culture, I'd say there weren't any.
Bowie and the other early 70s glam/glitter rockers cultivated some ambiguity around their sexuality and maybe Lou Reed (though not a household name) went a step beyond that but not enough to fit your bill. You'd hear rumours about certain celebrities being gay but that was it.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:59 AM on February 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Bowie and the other early 70s glam/glitter rockers cultivated some ambiguity around their sexuality and maybe Lou Reed (though not a household name) went a step beyond that but not enough to fit your bill. You'd hear rumours about certain celebrities being gay but that was it.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:59 AM on February 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Does Quentin Crisp count?
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 5:01 AM on February 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 5:01 AM on February 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Yes Truman Capote was a household name then. He appeared on talk shows and was also in the underrated 1976 Neil Simon film Murder by Death. But as another clueless teenager of the time, I didn’t know he was gay. There were definitely rumors about Elton John in the mid-70s.
I’ve heard gay people speak of Paul Lynde as a gay icon of the time, but he was not out either.
posted by FencingGal at 5:07 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I’ve heard gay people speak of Paul Lynde as a gay icon of the time, but he was not out either.
posted by FencingGal at 5:07 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yves Saint Laurent was sort of understood to be a gay icon, or at least I've read a number of accounts by young gay men about the famous poster of more or less naked Saint Laurent. Lou Reed was understood to be bisexualish for part of the seventies.
Andy Warhol and a variety of factory stars must have been understood to be sexually ambiguous in some way.
My impression is that there were a lot of icons-indicative-of-gayness who were either historical queers (Oscar Wilde, Socrates, Sappho) or camp icons (movie stars) or vaguely "decadent" writers who weren't really gay but would sometimes write about homosexuality (Huysmans).
There was also a lot of semi-understood "coding" in film and books where you could sort of tell that characters were supposed to be gay even if they were formally undesignated or married, etc.
I think it might be difficult for younger people to understand the degree of disdain and hatred felt for GLBTQ people even in the eighties when I was a kid. Even using various euphemisms (calling someone a "confirmed bachelor" or saying that someone was the "long-time companion") was insulting even if not quite libelous.
Things really did change through activism in the seventies and eighties. But I well remember looking for books and movies with actual gay people in them and as recently as the early nineties it was rather difficult to find many unless you were at a left-leaning or specifically GLBTQ bookstore.
It was not cool to be gay in the seventies. In some circles for a short time there was a little bit of a fashion for being sexually ambiguous, just like there was a bit of a fashion in New Wave science fiction for depicting the occasional gay character as a sign of either sophistication or decadence. There was also some sort-of mainstream depiction of gay people (Samuel Delaney's SF novels, for instance) but this wasn't the same as Delaney being truly out or being able to write novels that centered openly gay characters having openly gay relationships.
Marge Piercy wrote a novel about a young lesbian The High Cost of Living, which was published in 1978 by a mainstream press and which treated her life as normal and morally significant but which also accurately described the discretion and stigma involved in being a lesbian at the time.
I think something that gets lost in the age of the internet is the way that different social worlds could exist totally invisible to each other. If you were a literary/science fiction person or a graduate student or something in New York in the seventies, or a wealthy fashion person in Paris in the sixties, you probably knew some gay couples and invited them to parties and it was sorta-kinda treated as normal by straight people (or at least that's the impression I get from people's memoirs) but that kind of life did not exist elsewhere and was in fact totally unknown to average straight people, or even average queer people.
One of the things that IMO has profoundly shaped how queer relationships tend to develop is the way that until very, very recently, just learning about stuff was difficult. If I'm a baby queer now, I can literally google stuff and hook up on apps - it may not be easy and I may have unpleasant or unsafe experiences, but the information is there. If you were queer prior to the mid-nineties (or really prior to mass adoption of the internet) it could literally be difficult to figure out where to go unless someone told you. Like, there was a cafe here in MPLS that was sort of the gay-arty-people-cafe through the late nineties, and I literally never went there because I didn't know about it - it was a bit more posh than punk but not much and my social circle just didn't go, and no one ever brought it up so I never knew about it, the end.
posted by Frowner at 5:25 AM on February 9, 2020 [56 favorites]
Andy Warhol and a variety of factory stars must have been understood to be sexually ambiguous in some way.
My impression is that there were a lot of icons-indicative-of-gayness who were either historical queers (Oscar Wilde, Socrates, Sappho) or camp icons (movie stars) or vaguely "decadent" writers who weren't really gay but would sometimes write about homosexuality (Huysmans).
There was also a lot of semi-understood "coding" in film and books where you could sort of tell that characters were supposed to be gay even if they were formally undesignated or married, etc.
I think it might be difficult for younger people to understand the degree of disdain and hatred felt for GLBTQ people even in the eighties when I was a kid. Even using various euphemisms (calling someone a "confirmed bachelor" or saying that someone was the "long-time companion") was insulting even if not quite libelous.
Things really did change through activism in the seventies and eighties. But I well remember looking for books and movies with actual gay people in them and as recently as the early nineties it was rather difficult to find many unless you were at a left-leaning or specifically GLBTQ bookstore.
It was not cool to be gay in the seventies. In some circles for a short time there was a little bit of a fashion for being sexually ambiguous, just like there was a bit of a fashion in New Wave science fiction for depicting the occasional gay character as a sign of either sophistication or decadence. There was also some sort-of mainstream depiction of gay people (Samuel Delaney's SF novels, for instance) but this wasn't the same as Delaney being truly out or being able to write novels that centered openly gay characters having openly gay relationships.
Marge Piercy wrote a novel about a young lesbian The High Cost of Living, which was published in 1978 by a mainstream press and which treated her life as normal and morally significant but which also accurately described the discretion and stigma involved in being a lesbian at the time.
I think something that gets lost in the age of the internet is the way that different social worlds could exist totally invisible to each other. If you were a literary/science fiction person or a graduate student or something in New York in the seventies, or a wealthy fashion person in Paris in the sixties, you probably knew some gay couples and invited them to parties and it was sorta-kinda treated as normal by straight people (or at least that's the impression I get from people's memoirs) but that kind of life did not exist elsewhere and was in fact totally unknown to average straight people, or even average queer people.
One of the things that IMO has profoundly shaped how queer relationships tend to develop is the way that until very, very recently, just learning about stuff was difficult. If I'm a baby queer now, I can literally google stuff and hook up on apps - it may not be easy and I may have unpleasant or unsafe experiences, but the information is there. If you were queer prior to the mid-nineties (or really prior to mass adoption of the internet) it could literally be difficult to figure out where to go unless someone told you. Like, there was a cafe here in MPLS that was sort of the gay-arty-people-cafe through the late nineties, and I literally never went there because I didn't know about it - it was a bit more posh than punk but not much and my social circle just didn't go, and no one ever brought it up so I never knew about it, the end.
posted by Frowner at 5:25 AM on February 9, 2020 [56 favorites]
Not an actual celebrity but Billy Crystal's character Joey on the TV show Soap was probably the first time an out gay person was portrayed in pop culture as an admirable or even relatable human being.
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:39 AM on February 9, 2020 [29 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:39 AM on February 9, 2020 [29 favorites]
David Bowie said in a Melody Maker interview in 1972, "I'm gay, and I always have been".
posted by ManInSuit at 5:43 AM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by ManInSuit at 5:43 AM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think it might be difficult for younger people to understand the degree of disdain and hatred felt for GLBTQ people even in the eighties when I was a kid. Even using various euphemisms (calling someone a "confirmed bachelor" or saying that someone was the "long-time companion") was insulting even if not quite libelous.
Liberace is an interesting example of this. His high-camp style reads as "obviously gay" to people today, but he fought hard to stay in the closet during his lifetime, winning/settling several lawsuits against people who insinuated that he was gay.
posted by Johnny Assay at 5:51 AM on February 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
Liberace is an interesting example of this. His high-camp style reads as "obviously gay" to people today, but he fought hard to stay in the closet during his lifetime, winning/settling several lawsuits against people who insinuated that he was gay.
posted by Johnny Assay at 5:51 AM on February 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
Also, the comic strip Doonesbury introduced the gay character Andy Lippincott in 1976. He started out looking like he was going to be a love interest for Joanie, but then told her he was gay. My friends and I were very upset because he had seemed like the perfect man, which I’m sure now was the point. The character eventually died from AIDS.
It’s very hard to imagine now how normalized homophobia was then. In my medium-sized midwestern city, Anita Bryant was widely seen as doing the right thing with her Save Our Children campaign. It would never have occurred to me in high school that I might personally know someone gay. When I started college in Missouri in 1976, the campus LGBT group had a march to celebrate finally being allowed to meet on campus. People threw rocks at them.
posted by FencingGal at 5:59 AM on February 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
It’s very hard to imagine now how normalized homophobia was then. In my medium-sized midwestern city, Anita Bryant was widely seen as doing the right thing with her Save Our Children campaign. It would never have occurred to me in high school that I might personally know someone gay. When I started college in Missouri in 1976, the campus LGBT group had a march to celebrate finally being allowed to meet on campus. People threw rocks at them.
posted by FencingGal at 5:59 AM on February 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
Truman Capote was openly gay in the New York Times in 1978, but was he a household name then?
Capote became a semi-household name way back in the mid 60s, with the publication of In Cold Blood. He quickly became a full-blown household name thanks to Johnny Carson having him on the Tonight Show seemingly once a week. And, honestly, though he may not have been "officially" out at that point, I don't know anyone who thought he was anything other than gay.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:03 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Capote became a semi-household name way back in the mid 60s, with the publication of In Cold Blood. He quickly became a full-blown household name thanks to Johnny Carson having him on the Tonight Show seemingly once a week. And, honestly, though he may not have been "officially" out at that point, I don't know anyone who thought he was anything other than gay.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:03 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
With it given that Capote was a celebrity and obviously gay, I don't think anyone will argue that he was considered "cool" in 1970s North American popular culture.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:13 AM on February 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:13 AM on February 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Like, I think that the idea of the "open secret" describes how straight people thought of GLBTQ people prior to the eighties. That is, a lot of people could, if asked, name a gay person or recognize that gay people existed, but it wasn't "respectable" knowledge, something that nice people talked about at dinner. People pretended that gay people didn't exist except maybe in San Francisco somewhere, or as a character in a book. So there would sometimes be a visible gay person or visible gay character, but this did not translate into popular "there are gay people and YOU MIGHT KNOW THEM" awareness for most people. And of course because this was all "unofficial" knowledge, some people never knew it at all.
I think that the Liberace article linked upthread is very key - it points out that Liberace portrayed himself as childish/asexual, a "girlish boy" rather than a gay man. So it was possible for straight people to see him as campy and non-threatening rather than gay.
IMO, although AIDS stigma was a big part of the homophobia of the eighties, there would have been a culture struggle anyway because it was really driven by the increasing visibility of gay people. Homophobes don't hate queer people because of diseases. They hate queer people because queer people are a visible sign that patriarchal straight sexuality is losing its grip on the world, and that was the real deal in the eighties - the culture struggle against sexually explicit material, women's rights, abortion, gay people, publicly funded art, music by Black people, music about sex - all that stuff went together. Trans panic is their attempt to revive it.
posted by Frowner at 6:14 AM on February 9, 2020 [28 favorites]
I think that the Liberace article linked upthread is very key - it points out that Liberace portrayed himself as childish/asexual, a "girlish boy" rather than a gay man. So it was possible for straight people to see him as campy and non-threatening rather than gay.
IMO, although AIDS stigma was a big part of the homophobia of the eighties, there would have been a culture struggle anyway because it was really driven by the increasing visibility of gay people. Homophobes don't hate queer people because of diseases. They hate queer people because queer people are a visible sign that patriarchal straight sexuality is losing its grip on the world, and that was the real deal in the eighties - the culture struggle against sexually explicit material, women's rights, abortion, gay people, publicly funded art, music by Black people, music about sex - all that stuff went together. Trans panic is their attempt to revive it.
posted by Frowner at 6:14 AM on February 9, 2020 [28 favorites]
Capote was definitely out in the 1970s. I remember one time where he went on the Stanley Siegel Show here in NYC and used the phrase “homosexual gentleman” in reference to himself. (It was part of a whole story, but the story isn’t really relevant or appropriate here.)
posted by holborne at 6:17 AM on February 9, 2020
posted by holborne at 6:17 AM on February 9, 2020
With it given that Capote was a celebrity and obviously gay, I don't think anyone will argue that he was considered "cool" in 1970s North American popular culture.
I don't know if you could apply the word "cool" - he was famous, but a lot of people were famous in a sort of celebrity-spectacle way, with the understanding being that 'normal' people aren't like this but if they're entertaining, well okay, show business has different values. I wouldn't say people thought Capote was cool in that they aspired to be like him, thought he gave them permission to be more out, or thought he was a great role model.
posted by Miko at 6:22 AM on February 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I don't know if you could apply the word "cool" - he was famous, but a lot of people were famous in a sort of celebrity-spectacle way, with the understanding being that 'normal' people aren't like this but if they're entertaining, well okay, show business has different values. I wouldn't say people thought Capote was cool in that they aspired to be like him, thought he gave them permission to be more out, or thought he was a great role model.
posted by Miko at 6:22 AM on February 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Paul Lynde was a household name and while he wasn't out, he was very campy. I don't know if he was cool per se, but he was the one who popped into my mind.
posted by cabingirl at 6:35 AM on February 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by cabingirl at 6:35 AM on February 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Rita Mae Brown, who published “Ruby Fruit Jungle” in the early 70’s, might have qualified as a cool gay icon at the time.
posted by baseballpajamas at 6:35 AM on February 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by baseballpajamas at 6:35 AM on February 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
This list of GLBTQ firsts will give you a pretty good rundown of notable figures throughout the 1970s.
Lots of great explanation above about that time-span, and also worth mentioning that it wasn't until 1973 that the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its list of psychiatric disorders. This also provides some context: being a "household name" and being publicly out were diametrically opposed.
posted by jeremias at 6:49 AM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Lots of great explanation above about that time-span, and also worth mentioning that it wasn't until 1973 that the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its list of psychiatric disorders. This also provides some context: being a "household name" and being publicly out were diametrically opposed.
posted by jeremias at 6:49 AM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
James Beard came out publicly in his memoir in 1981 but was openly gay long before that, had a partner of 30 years, etc.
posted by HotToddy at 7:06 AM on February 9, 2020
posted by HotToddy at 7:06 AM on February 9, 2020
Oh, sorry, I lost track of the point that you’re looking for people who made it cool to be gay. He was definitley a household name though!
posted by HotToddy at 7:07 AM on February 9, 2020
posted by HotToddy at 7:07 AM on February 9, 2020
There are good points upthread about ambiguity and homophobia, but Sylvester does fit the bill as both out and cool in the 1970s. I'd find it difficult to think of anyone else though.
posted by Vortisaur at 7:23 AM on February 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Vortisaur at 7:23 AM on February 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
One thing implicit in many of these answers; judgement about "cool". Many gay figures like Paul Lynde, Truman Capote, Charles Nelson Reilly, Quentin Crisp, and the Village People were playing camp. They acted the role of clown in society, not "normal" person. Also never exactly coming out necessarily, although if there was a secret it was certainly open.
It's hard to frame these camp experts as "cool" in the modern sense, and certainly not "ordinary person who happens to be homosexual". Some of their acts haven't aged well either, a sort of Amos 'n' Andy problem. I think a lot of straight people were laughing at these men, not with them. But as a young gay person I was definitely with these queeny guys, looked up to them. They may have been clowns but they were also smart as a whip, hilarious, and absolutely brave.
As for more stereotypical "cool", especially for straight people.. I think David Bowie is the best archetype. Explicitly bisexual, not gay, but his androgyny and bisexuality were strong and positive parts of his 70s brand.
I also want to put a shout out to Gore Vidal. Who famously rejected the label "gay" for himself while simultaneously being very openly homosexual since the 60s. I don't know if he counts as "cool" exactly but he held his own among the intellectual chattering classes.
posted by Nelson at 7:44 AM on February 9, 2020 [22 favorites]
It's hard to frame these camp experts as "cool" in the modern sense, and certainly not "ordinary person who happens to be homosexual". Some of their acts haven't aged well either, a sort of Amos 'n' Andy problem. I think a lot of straight people were laughing at these men, not with them. But as a young gay person I was definitely with these queeny guys, looked up to them. They may have been clowns but they were also smart as a whip, hilarious, and absolutely brave.
As for more stereotypical "cool", especially for straight people.. I think David Bowie is the best archetype. Explicitly bisexual, not gay, but his androgyny and bisexuality were strong and positive parts of his 70s brand.
I also want to put a shout out to Gore Vidal. Who famously rejected the label "gay" for himself while simultaneously being very openly homosexual since the 60s. I don't know if he counts as "cool" exactly but he held his own among the intellectual chattering classes.
posted by Nelson at 7:44 AM on February 9, 2020 [22 favorites]
I think it might be difficult for younger people to understand the degree of disdain and hatred felt for GLBTQ people even in the eighties when I was a kid.
Can confirm based on the resident teenager's disbelieving reaction on learning about shunning of AIDS patients, Don't Ask Don't Tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act.
Early 80s in the Midwest: glam rock and gender-bending a la Boy George were fashion movements, nothing to do with sexuality or gender fluidity, and even if they were you wouldn't speak about it in front of the children, who really ought to be protected from such sights.
Mid to late 80s: I remember PSA posters in grocery stores and Target about how AIDS couldn't be spread by handshakes, sneezes, etc and Very Special Episodes/volumes of YA series about how people with HIV were still people (and learning about anal sex from an Ann Landers column, which was unexpected and a lot for this sheltered kid) but it was generally the Terrifying Danger of Which We Do Not Speak. When my choir director came out as gay and HIV-positive around 1989 and the congregation chose to embrace him, it was front page news.
Even 20 years later, I remember my ex being shocked to learn I had an out gay friend in early-90s Catholic high school. At the time I knew of one other gay student and he was definitely closeted, though it was known among certain circles. No one seemed to hold it against him but no one spoke of it openly either, because outing someone who didn't want to be publicly known as gay was understood to be a terrible thing to do. This was true in the wider world as well - whenever a politician or actor was outed, there was shock but also a twinge of empathy for them having to face a stigma they'd tried to avoid. DADT wasn't just for the military.
(YgenxchildhoodmemoriesMV. Thank you for coming to my TED talk)
posted by Flannery Culp at 8:09 AM on February 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
Can confirm based on the resident teenager's disbelieving reaction on learning about shunning of AIDS patients, Don't Ask Don't Tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act.
Early 80s in the Midwest: glam rock and gender-bending a la Boy George were fashion movements, nothing to do with sexuality or gender fluidity, and even if they were you wouldn't speak about it in front of the children, who really ought to be protected from such sights.
Mid to late 80s: I remember PSA posters in grocery stores and Target about how AIDS couldn't be spread by handshakes, sneezes, etc and Very Special Episodes/volumes of YA series about how people with HIV were still people (and learning about anal sex from an Ann Landers column, which was unexpected and a lot for this sheltered kid) but it was generally the Terrifying Danger of Which We Do Not Speak. When my choir director came out as gay and HIV-positive around 1989 and the congregation chose to embrace him, it was front page news.
Even 20 years later, I remember my ex being shocked to learn I had an out gay friend in early-90s Catholic high school. At the time I knew of one other gay student and he was definitely closeted, though it was known among certain circles. No one seemed to hold it against him but no one spoke of it openly either, because outing someone who didn't want to be publicly known as gay was understood to be a terrible thing to do. This was true in the wider world as well - whenever a politician or actor was outed, there was shock but also a twinge of empathy for them having to face a stigma they'd tried to avoid. DADT wasn't just for the military.
(YgenxchildhoodmemoriesMV. Thank you for coming to my TED talk)
posted by Flannery Culp at 8:09 AM on February 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
Not an actual celebrity but Billy Crystal's character Joey on the TV show Soap was probably the first time an out gay person was portrayed in pop culture as an admirable or even relatable human being.
I was a child then, and in my experience there was a MASSIVE amount of controversy amongst parents as to whether it was "safe" to allow children to view a show with a homosexual character.
posted by WaywardPlane at 8:49 AM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I was a child then, and in my experience there was a MASSIVE amount of controversy amongst parents as to whether it was "safe" to allow children to view a show with a homosexual character.
posted by WaywardPlane at 8:49 AM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
The premise of your question is flawed. It wasn’t cool to be gay in the ‘70s and no out celebrities could have made it cool. Coming out was viewed as a radical act that likely would torpedo a career.
Ellen DeGeneres came out in 1997 and that was probably the first time a celebrity coming out made it “cool”. And then her sitcom got canceled and her career almost died.
posted by Automocar at 9:01 AM on February 9, 2020 [23 favorites]
Ellen DeGeneres came out in 1997 and that was probably the first time a celebrity coming out made it “cool”. And then her sitcom got canceled and her career almost died.
posted by Automocar at 9:01 AM on February 9, 2020 [23 favorites]
I agree with the majority of posters re: “actually out, actually cool, and actually popular in the 70s: pick two”, but offer jobraith as my choice, although he barely meets criteria 3 (no shade, it’s just not really generally popular).
posted by holyrood at 9:42 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by holyrood at 9:42 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think that a thing that you're missing here is that, because it was so completely life-shatteringly impossible for most gay people to be out, gay people developed a culture that was cool because of the ways in which it hid things in plain sight. There were all sorts of subtle (and not-at-all-subtle) clues that you could pick up on if you were in-the-know, and being in-the-know made you cool. So the cool gay celebrities were often ones who didn't shout from the rafters that they were gay, because that would have been career-ending (or would simply have been ignored by the mainstream media if they continued to have a career): they were the ones who were announcing their identity to the people they cared about, while allowing dumb straight people to be blissfully unaware. It was making a virtue out of necessity, but like a lot of oppressed people, gay people made something really beautiful and amazing out of that necessity.
But yeah, Sylvester is a good answer, because I think that disco was probably the first pop culture movement that was queer in a way that was broadly visible to straight people. But I still don't know if mainstream media coverage would have mentioned that some disco stars were gay, even if the disco stars were completely open about it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:42 AM on February 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
But yeah, Sylvester is a good answer, because I think that disco was probably the first pop culture movement that was queer in a way that was broadly visible to straight people. But I still don't know if mainstream media coverage would have mentioned that some disco stars were gay, even if the disco stars were completely open about it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:42 AM on February 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Mental illness and homosexuality were so conflated in those days that it makes the question really hard to answer. I was in elementary school in the 70s, and my parents were fairly progressive. Positive portrayals of gay people I remember are Billy from Soap and characters in the Tales of the City books. But definitely, in the mainstream mind, gay people were damaged. Gayness was either a birth defect or the unfortunate outcome of a rough childhood. The idea of gayness as a normal and desirable human variation just wasn't there yet.
posted by selfmedicating at 9:46 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by selfmedicating at 9:46 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Martina Navratilova was enough of a household name that I knew of her and I was a little sports hating proto-gay myself. She came out in 1981 if that’s close enough.
I think it might be difficult for younger people to understand the degree of disdain and hatred felt for GLBTQ people even in the eighties when I was a kid.
Oh yes. This is actually something that I find difficult about being a middle aged queer person on the internet because young queers are like oh, gay men, you have it so easy. Remember AIDS jokes? Remember “smear the queer”, a playground game for kids? Remember “let’s put them all on an island so they can give each other AIDS and die?” I do. “Faggot” was the go-to insult in junior high and I don’t remember teachers noticing or getting upset. Good times.
posted by less of course at 9:47 AM on February 9, 2020 [14 favorites]
I think it might be difficult for younger people to understand the degree of disdain and hatred felt for GLBTQ people even in the eighties when I was a kid.
Oh yes. This is actually something that I find difficult about being a middle aged queer person on the internet because young queers are like oh, gay men, you have it so easy. Remember AIDS jokes? Remember “smear the queer”, a playground game for kids? Remember “let’s put them all on an island so they can give each other AIDS and die?” I do. “Faggot” was the go-to insult in junior high and I don’t remember teachers noticing or getting upset. Good times.
posted by less of course at 9:47 AM on February 9, 2020 [14 favorites]
I think Bowie is the best answer to this, particularly early 70s Bowie. Later he was an asshole about his bisexuality, closeting himself again as he felt necessary both artistically and financially, but watch the Cracked Actor documentary filmed in 1974 to see interviews with audience members actively celebrating his, and their bisexuality. Watch interviews with Boy George and other gay celebrities who were kids watching his Ziggy period and hear what an impact he made in their lives. Bowie was out as Bi and cool as anything on the planet.
posted by merocet at 9:58 AM on February 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by merocet at 9:58 AM on February 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
One of the things that IMO has profoundly shaped how queer relationships tend to develop is the way that until very, very recently, just learning about stuff was difficult.
This is so true. When I was a teenager in the 70s, I had never even heard the word bisexual (and I was not particularly sheltered.) Some of the more risque women's magazines (Cosmopolitan and Redbook) did mention that it was "normal" for straight women to be attracted to other women at times but it didn't mean you were gay. I didn't know I was bisexual until I first heard the term when I was in my 20s. It was sort of a lightbulb moment.
I remember back at that time that there would be rumors about campy celebrities, and so most of us assumed that is what gay men were like, and their schtick would be laughed at but they weren't particularly admired. In the early 80s there was a sitcom called Brothers in which one of the brothers was a non-campy gay man, and I remember that being part of the premise that here was this perfectly "normal" guy who was gay and that was a really new concept for most people.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:17 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is so true. When I was a teenager in the 70s, I had never even heard the word bisexual (and I was not particularly sheltered.) Some of the more risque women's magazines (Cosmopolitan and Redbook) did mention that it was "normal" for straight women to be attracted to other women at times but it didn't mean you were gay. I didn't know I was bisexual until I first heard the term when I was in my 20s. It was sort of a lightbulb moment.
I remember back at that time that there would be rumors about campy celebrities, and so most of us assumed that is what gay men were like, and their schtick would be laughed at but they weren't particularly admired. In the early 80s there was a sitcom called Brothers in which one of the brothers was a non-campy gay man, and I remember that being part of the premise that here was this perfectly "normal" guy who was gay and that was a really new concept for most people.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:17 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
To give another sense of that time period, on college campuses in the 70s, there was something called Wear Jeans if You’re Gay Day started by LGBT groups. Most students at the time wore jeans every single day, but straight students went to great lengths to not wear jeans on that day. I also remember straight students being really angry about “having” to dress differently so people wouldn’t think they were gay. I remember being told at the time that the point was that eventually straight people wouldn’t consider being thought gay a terrible thing and would just wear jeans like they did every day.
posted by FencingGal at 10:33 AM on February 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by FencingGal at 10:33 AM on February 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I think it might be difficult for younger people to understand the degree of disdain and hatred felt for GLBTQ people even in the eighties when I was a kid.
On the other side of that, as someone who grew up in the 80s... I don't feel like it's changed all that much, and in a lot of ways having things move to the internet has made for less of a community because we're not going to a coffee shop to hang out. Having to make the effort meant that more people actually made an effort, and now there's just enough change that people want to pretend that things have changed in a big way instead of being critical of that only those of us who maximally assimilate are "acceptable" and the rest of us are being too loud and in your face.
As far as celebrities go, I essentially agree with people above who have said that there weren't much in the way of out gay celebrities making it cool - it's still a very risky career move for people in Hollywood, despite right-wing stereotypes of Hollywood being full of queer people.
posted by bile and syntax at 10:34 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
On the other side of that, as someone who grew up in the 80s... I don't feel like it's changed all that much, and in a lot of ways having things move to the internet has made for less of a community because we're not going to a coffee shop to hang out. Having to make the effort meant that more people actually made an effort, and now there's just enough change that people want to pretend that things have changed in a big way instead of being critical of that only those of us who maximally assimilate are "acceptable" and the rest of us are being too loud and in your face.
As far as celebrities go, I essentially agree with people above who have said that there weren't much in the way of out gay celebrities making it cool - it's still a very risky career move for people in Hollywood, despite right-wing stereotypes of Hollywood being full of queer people.
posted by bile and syntax at 10:34 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I was a kid then, but I can't remember anyone who was actually out - even Paul Lynde and Liberace were considered "confirmed bachelors".
The only edge case I can think of maaaybe was Waylon Flowers?
And IIRC Billy Crystal's character on Soap was pretty well loved, even though I wouldn't call him cool... but he was fictional.
posted by Mchelly at 10:58 AM on February 9, 2020
The only edge case I can think of maaaybe was Waylon Flowers?
And IIRC Billy Crystal's character on Soap was pretty well loved, even though I wouldn't call him cool... but he was fictional.
posted by Mchelly at 10:58 AM on February 9, 2020
Allen Ginsberg!
posted by mareli at 11:34 AM on February 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by mareli at 11:34 AM on February 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Also Audre Lorde and Adrienne Rich.
Some folks I got to know a bit later (and I'm still good friends with some of them) founded a rural gay commune, Lavender Hill, near Ithaca in 1973. A lot of people, mostly from NYC, visited.
The Cockettes were a mostly gay performance group who toured. And the Angels of Light were another theater company.
posted by mareli at 11:42 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Some folks I got to know a bit later (and I'm still good friends with some of them) founded a rural gay commune, Lavender Hill, near Ithaca in 1973. A lot of people, mostly from NYC, visited.
The Cockettes were a mostly gay performance group who toured. And the Angels of Light were another theater company.
posted by mareli at 11:42 AM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not an actual celebrity but Billy Crystal's character Joey
The character’s name was Jodie Dallas. Watched this as a kid, and I credit the show for inoculating me against homophobia.
posted by jzb at 12:14 PM on February 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
The character’s name was Jodie Dallas. Watched this as a kid, and I credit the show for inoculating me against homophobia.
posted by jzb at 12:14 PM on February 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Graham Chapman? I seem to recall seeing a clip of him being interviewed on the Michael Parkinson show talking very freely about being gay.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 12:48 PM on February 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 12:48 PM on February 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
Liberace is an interesting example of this
plus, he wasn't cool! he was famous, but so was lawrence welk.
There's John Waters, but he wasn't everyone's favorite lovable well-read uncle yet back then so I'm not sure he was the kind of figure you're looking for. "Household name" & "celebrity" have certain universal, inoffensive connotations that are hard to reconcile with "cool." even now, let alone then.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:05 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
plus, he wasn't cool! he was famous, but so was lawrence welk.
There's John Waters, but he wasn't everyone's favorite lovable well-read uncle yet back then so I'm not sure he was the kind of figure you're looking for. "Household name" & "celebrity" have certain universal, inoffensive connotations that are hard to reconcile with "cool." even now, let alone then.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:05 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
the sisters of perpetual indulgence
Edmund white
andrew holleran
larry kramer
patricia Nell warren
posted by brujita at 1:35 PM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Edmund white
andrew holleran
larry kramer
patricia Nell warren
posted by brujita at 1:35 PM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
larry kramer
Larry Kramer was not well known nor an icon of any kind in the 70s. GMHC wasn't founded until 1980 but before that he was deeply controversial for having written Faggots.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:45 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Larry Kramer was not well known nor an icon of any kind in the 70s. GMHC wasn't founded until 1980 but before that he was deeply controversial for having written Faggots.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:45 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Divine.
posted by sexyrobot at 2:11 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by sexyrobot at 2:11 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Out article from 2014, making the case for An American Family's Lance Loud.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:31 PM on February 9, 2020
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:31 PM on February 9, 2020
reiterate for Gore Vidal, who was openly out since before the 1970s. Not movie-star level famous, but recognizable as a guest on TV talk shows like Johnny Carson. His comments about gender & sexuality were unique for the times and worth a look.
posted by ovvl at 4:23 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 4:23 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
> Doonesbury introduced the gay character Andy Lippincott in 1976. He started out looking like he was going to be a love interest for Joanie, but then told her he was gay.
I remember this panel. I have not seen it in years, maybe decades, but it still stands out in my memory:
Andy: "Joanie, I'm gay."
Joanie: "Are they sure?"
Andy: "I'm sure."
posted by yclipse at 4:32 PM on February 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
I remember this panel. I have not seen it in years, maybe decades, but it still stands out in my memory:
Andy: "Joanie, I'm gay."
Joanie: "Are they sure?"
Andy: "I'm sure."
posted by yclipse at 4:32 PM on February 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Peter Allen and Halson, maybe?
posted by Short End Of A Wishbone at 4:41 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Short End Of A Wishbone at 4:41 PM on February 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I vaguely remembered something about tennis star Billie Jean King, who was famous for the Battle of the Sexes match.... Google reminds me that she was outed in 1981 and it nearly ruined her career.
posted by Sublimity at 5:53 PM on February 9, 2020
posted by Sublimity at 5:53 PM on February 9, 2020
One more to reiterate, from the perspective of the time: there's 'out' as in 'everybody knows' and 'out' as in 'standing at a podium and saying 'I am a homosexual'. The first was more common than you might think, the second quite rare, and that was because there were literal laws against it. Not de facto prejudice, but de jure No Gays Allowed legislation. That's probably kind of incomprehensible if you were born in 1999 or something.
Not celebrities, but I'll give a real world personal example of people who made it cool to be gay back in the 70's and early 80's. In grade school, when I was 8 years old, our gym teacher was what we would later come to know as a Stone Butch. You know Jane Lynch's coach character from Glee? Start with that, but give her the face and mannerisms of Clint Eastwood. Picture a woman that you'd just naturally address as 'Sarge'.
Meanwhile, we also had a male art teacher. He was the swishiest swish who ever swooshed; I mean he'd walk down the halls between classes head high, hips swinging, arms in full 'I'm a little teapot' configuration, singing 'I Feel Pretty' from my fair lady. Think magician Doug Henning, but add 40 lbs and turn the dial to Could Not Be More Gay.
Both of these teachers were beloved by their students, and honored by the school. All the adults knew the score, and all the kids didn't know this was anything to be concerned about. Yes, if you'd asked us kids a bunch of leading questions, about whether we thought anything was different about those two...not knowing anything about sex or having vocabulary for the subject, we probably would have told you that yeah, now that you ask, Coach is sort of a Man-Lady and Arty is kind of a Lady-Man. They act different from most of the other teachers, but not scary or alien.
But we wouldn't have had much judgement beyond that. When there's gender nonconforming people around when you're a kid, that just becomes different-but-normal, like red hair & freckles, or a big bushy beard. Some people are like that out in the world, even if they're not the majority, and most of them are pretty cool, is what that teaches you. Exposure is Normalization, and Normalization is an inoculation against homophobia (or prejudice & bigotry of all types).
BUT...with all that being said, and that seemingly ideal situation for everyone...If something had forced an official questioning, if either of those teachers had to go before a hostile review board, or sign a deposition, 'are you now or have you ever been a homosexual'?
If they say Yes? Instant dismissal. Unlikely to be an appeal, since they might also be ejected from the teacher's union as well. Probably never be allowed to work with children or in a school of any kind ever again. And not because the town was full of pitchfork-wielding homophobes; because it was the law.
So that's why when we're talking about the 70's, there's out, and there's Out. But still, my generation owes a debt of thanks to all those who, if unable to be actually Out, were at least Visible, and accepted, and lived 'normal' lives. That they showed that this was something you could be, and it was all right. That made it possible (inevitable) for us to later when we grew up, call bullshit on anti-gay policies. "What do you mean 'The Gays' are a threat? I've had 'The Gays' around my whole life, and it's never been a problem. It's you that's the hostile weirdo." So those two teachers, while not nationwide household names, made it 'cool' to be gay for every student that passed through that school, and 'uncool' to be anti-gay in the following decades.
posted by bartleby at 8:08 PM on February 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
Not celebrities, but I'll give a real world personal example of people who made it cool to be gay back in the 70's and early 80's. In grade school, when I was 8 years old, our gym teacher was what we would later come to know as a Stone Butch. You know Jane Lynch's coach character from Glee? Start with that, but give her the face and mannerisms of Clint Eastwood. Picture a woman that you'd just naturally address as 'Sarge'.
Meanwhile, we also had a male art teacher. He was the swishiest swish who ever swooshed; I mean he'd walk down the halls between classes head high, hips swinging, arms in full 'I'm a little teapot' configuration, singing 'I Feel Pretty' from my fair lady. Think magician Doug Henning, but add 40 lbs and turn the dial to Could Not Be More Gay.
Both of these teachers were beloved by their students, and honored by the school. All the adults knew the score, and all the kids didn't know this was anything to be concerned about. Yes, if you'd asked us kids a bunch of leading questions, about whether we thought anything was different about those two...not knowing anything about sex or having vocabulary for the subject, we probably would have told you that yeah, now that you ask, Coach is sort of a Man-Lady and Arty is kind of a Lady-Man. They act different from most of the other teachers, but not scary or alien.
But we wouldn't have had much judgement beyond that. When there's gender nonconforming people around when you're a kid, that just becomes different-but-normal, like red hair & freckles, or a big bushy beard. Some people are like that out in the world, even if they're not the majority, and most of them are pretty cool, is what that teaches you. Exposure is Normalization, and Normalization is an inoculation against homophobia (or prejudice & bigotry of all types).
BUT...with all that being said, and that seemingly ideal situation for everyone...If something had forced an official questioning, if either of those teachers had to go before a hostile review board, or sign a deposition, 'are you now or have you ever been a homosexual'?
If they say Yes? Instant dismissal. Unlikely to be an appeal, since they might also be ejected from the teacher's union as well. Probably never be allowed to work with children or in a school of any kind ever again. And not because the town was full of pitchfork-wielding homophobes; because it was the law.
So that's why when we're talking about the 70's, there's out, and there's Out. But still, my generation owes a debt of thanks to all those who, if unable to be actually Out, were at least Visible, and accepted, and lived 'normal' lives. That they showed that this was something you could be, and it was all right. That made it possible (inevitable) for us to later when we grew up, call bullshit on anti-gay policies. "What do you mean 'The Gays' are a threat? I've had 'The Gays' around my whole life, and it's never been a problem. It's you that's the hostile weirdo." So those two teachers, while not nationwide household names, made it 'cool' to be gay for every student that passed through that school, and 'uncool' to be anti-gay in the following decades.
posted by bartleby at 8:08 PM on February 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
Oh, wear jeans if you're gay day. Someone remind me: it became acceptable, athough 'advanced', for boys/men to pierce one ear. Which was the 'gay' ear, anyone remember?
posted by bartleby at 8:33 PM on February 9, 2020
posted by bartleby at 8:33 PM on February 9, 2020
James Baldwin was never in the closet, and that was pretty cool. His household name status stemmed from earlier decades but he continued to be a celebrity during the 70's.
posted by goofyfoot at 11:44 PM on February 9, 2020
posted by goofyfoot at 11:44 PM on February 9, 2020
In the same "not out-out but COME ON" category, Freddie Mercury. Famous in the US by 1974–1975.
posted by booksandlibretti at 11:35 AM on February 10, 2020
posted by booksandlibretti at 11:35 AM on February 10, 2020
In the same "not out-out but COME ON" category, Freddie Mercury. Famous in the US by 1974–1975.
Clueless 70s teen here - I had no idea that Freddy Mercury might be gay and I doubt it crossed the minds of the jean jacket crew at my school. He was the flamboyant lead in a British glam band and his singing style wasn't too far removed from Robert Plant or Marc Bolan. There was no MTV to see interviews on, so apart from the odd article in Rolling Stone or Cream, you didn’t have much sense of anyone's off stage persona.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:09 PM on February 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
Clueless 70s teen here - I had no idea that Freddy Mercury might be gay and I doubt it crossed the minds of the jean jacket crew at my school. He was the flamboyant lead in a British glam band and his singing style wasn't too far removed from Robert Plant or Marc Bolan. There was no MTV to see interviews on, so apart from the odd article in Rolling Stone or Cream, you didn’t have much sense of anyone's off stage persona.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:09 PM on February 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
The Apple TV+ docuseries Visible: Out on Television might cover some of this, but I haven't seen it.
posted by Johnny Assay at 9:58 AM on February 12, 2020
posted by Johnny Assay at 9:58 AM on February 12, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
The Village People.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:46 AM on February 9, 2020 [2 favorites]