Why/how do mediocre restaurants exist?
December 9, 2019 12:25 PM Subscribe
Everybody always talks about how difficult the restaurant industry is. I've seen a lot of my favorite restaurants close. But a lot of not-so-great restaurants persist, and I don't understand how.
I ate at a barbecue restaurant this past weekend, and while it wasn't horrible, it was pretty bland and flavorless. The meat was just OK, the sauces were forgettable, and the sides were downright bland. The service wasn't particularly notable, either. If a friend wanted to go there again, I wouldn't say no, but it's not somewhere I'd seek out again. It was just... blah. It seems like the larger community agrees with me, as it was noon on Saturday and there was only one other table, who seemed to be friends with one of the servers (note the plural - the ratio of servers to tables was 1:1, which seems... unprofitable).
My question is, how can this happen? How, in such a competitive environment, can mediocrity survive? Shouldn't only the strong survive? I can understand how restaurants with good food can have bad business fundamentals, but is it possible to run a business well enough to make up for a lousy product? I know alcohol sales are a big moneymaker, but even good restaurants that sell booze still go under. It doesn't make sense to me. Is there something I'm not considering? Did I just happen to go to a front for a coke dealer or something?
I ate at a barbecue restaurant this past weekend, and while it wasn't horrible, it was pretty bland and flavorless. The meat was just OK, the sauces were forgettable, and the sides were downright bland. The service wasn't particularly notable, either. If a friend wanted to go there again, I wouldn't say no, but it's not somewhere I'd seek out again. It was just... blah. It seems like the larger community agrees with me, as it was noon on Saturday and there was only one other table, who seemed to be friends with one of the servers (note the plural - the ratio of servers to tables was 1:1, which seems... unprofitable).
My question is, how can this happen? How, in such a competitive environment, can mediocrity survive? Shouldn't only the strong survive? I can understand how restaurants with good food can have bad business fundamentals, but is it possible to run a business well enough to make up for a lousy product? I know alcohol sales are a big moneymaker, but even good restaurants that sell booze still go under. It doesn't make sense to me. Is there something I'm not considering? Did I just happen to go to a front for a coke dealer or something?
Restaurants fail eventually, not instantly. Even if they're not competitive on the business side via rent/wage shenanigans, as furnace.heart suggests, they may have significant capital to ride out slow periods/periods of shitty cooks or management/supplier issues. And they may have something not obvious that is serving a need - an event space, a catering sideline, a really popular karaoke night, whatever.
Or, yeah, it's a mob front. Those seem to have really great food, though.
posted by restless_nomad at 12:31 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
Or, yeah, it's a mob front. Those seem to have really great food, though.
posted by restless_nomad at 12:31 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
I have seen two ways that seem paradoxical. In an area where there is only one, for example, BBQ place, it can get away with being actually pretty terrible. Because people who want that type of food really want it.
Next, in a region or area that has dozens to hundreds of places serving a type of food, some will be great, some will be ok, and others will be terrible. But folks who know this town has a reputation for great BBQ will sometimes just go to the place closest to where they're staying, or where the taxi takes them, or some other access that's not connected to quality.
And then, ya, building is owned outright, or it's a mob front. Or the place is a vanity project run by someone with lots of (other) money available. Inheritances, spouses, owner sold a company or got rich in a tech bubble and always dreamed of starting a restaurant. Many of these folks are not able to really understand that they aren't doing well. They're used to being successful, not used to being told no, unaccustomed to failing. They've heard the stories about how hard it is to run a restaurant, and often have never worked in food service before. So they think everyone is doing this badly, and they hang on much longer than they might if they really understood what the booksand food of a healthy restaurant looked like.
posted by bilabial at 12:40 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
Next, in a region or area that has dozens to hundreds of places serving a type of food, some will be great, some will be ok, and others will be terrible. But folks who know this town has a reputation for great BBQ will sometimes just go to the place closest to where they're staying, or where the taxi takes them, or some other access that's not connected to quality.
And then, ya, building is owned outright, or it's a mob front. Or the place is a vanity project run by someone with lots of (other) money available. Inheritances, spouses, owner sold a company or got rich in a tech bubble and always dreamed of starting a restaurant. Many of these folks are not able to really understand that they aren't doing well. They're used to being successful, not used to being told no, unaccustomed to failing. They've heard the stories about how hard it is to run a restaurant, and often have never worked in food service before. So they think everyone is doing this badly, and they hang on much longer than they might if they really understood what the books
posted by bilabial at 12:40 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
Small family run restaurants operate at a much lower overhead than one run more like a normal business.
posted by fshgrl at 12:40 PM on December 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 12:40 PM on December 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
My in-laws' favorite restaurant is extremely bland Italian-American. But they've been going to that restaurant for almost 40 years now, and that's the flavor they want. It may help to know that my in-laws are not foodies and not particularly food-oriented, dislike stronger flavors, are suspicious of cuisines they're not familiar with, and basically have palates that were set in the mid-20th century to food of the "cook noodles, put a can of tuna and a can of cream of mushroom soup in, and scatter a can of fried onion straws on top" variety. I suspect they're not alone.
On the other hand, a restaurant opened near our house last week that serves extremely bland Italian-American food. Last week it was packed with people who were checking out the new restaurant. We drove by it yesterday at the same time we'd eaten there a week ago, and there was one car in the parking lot. It may not survive very long, especially because there's a really good Italian-American restaurant a five-minute drive up the road.
posted by telophase at 12:51 PM on December 9, 2019 [7 favorites]
On the other hand, a restaurant opened near our house last week that serves extremely bland Italian-American food. Last week it was packed with people who were checking out the new restaurant. We drove by it yesterday at the same time we'd eaten there a week ago, and there was one car in the parking lot. It may not survive very long, especially because there's a really good Italian-American restaurant a five-minute drive up the road.
posted by telophase at 12:51 PM on December 9, 2019 [7 favorites]
fhsgrl is right, if there are fewer wages to pay, that makes it easier to keep going.
Another example of how mediocre restaurants hold on is tradition. A place that's been open a very long time is a staple for many people who keep going there for the sociality, the routine, the habit. They may have stopped noticing the food quality.
And the biggest one that I forgot, a huge number of people do not care about some aspects of what I think of as "food quality." So things that would turn me off are not universally problematic. I'm thinking of incredibly greasy fried items, tough steaks, fish that's a bit past its best, overcooked produce, too salty.
Ok, one more. You might have just caught them on an off day. The regular head chef may have been out with a cold (or a hangover, or some other reason) and the other staff may have been picking up the slack. Sure, it seems unlikely that everything would be off as a result. But maybe 2 people were out. Maybe sidework didn't get done the night before. Maybe a delivery was missed or sent in error so the meats weren't up to standard but what are they going to do, sell nothing?
Restaurants are so complicated. I would bet money it's some constellation of all of these things.
Oh, they might also be dodging taxes, which makes it easier to keep more of the money in the business, which can keep it going longer as well. Other tactics include wage theft, ordering lower quality products, ordering in too big a quantity so that the last bits of things are just not as fresh.
posted by bilabial at 12:54 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Another example of how mediocre restaurants hold on is tradition. A place that's been open a very long time is a staple for many people who keep going there for the sociality, the routine, the habit. They may have stopped noticing the food quality.
And the biggest one that I forgot, a huge number of people do not care about some aspects of what I think of as "food quality." So things that would turn me off are not universally problematic. I'm thinking of incredibly greasy fried items, tough steaks, fish that's a bit past its best, overcooked produce, too salty.
Ok, one more. You might have just caught them on an off day. The regular head chef may have been out with a cold (or a hangover, or some other reason) and the other staff may have been picking up the slack. Sure, it seems unlikely that everything would be off as a result. But maybe 2 people were out. Maybe sidework didn't get done the night before. Maybe a delivery was missed or sent in error so the meats weren't up to standard but what are they going to do, sell nothing?
Restaurants are so complicated. I would bet money it's some constellation of all of these things.
Oh, they might also be dodging taxes, which makes it easier to keep more of the money in the business, which can keep it going longer as well. Other tactics include wage theft, ordering lower quality products, ordering in too big a quantity so that the last bits of things are just not as fresh.
posted by bilabial at 12:54 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: The real estate piece is what I wasn't considering. It's pretty likely the restaurant in question owns their building, so that would definitely give them more leeway.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:55 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by kevinbelt at 12:55 PM on December 9, 2019
Going to a restaurant is only partly about the food. I'll take quiet, comfortable, consistent, moderately lit, close to me or easy to get to... or neighborhood type joints or long-time establishments... over the best foodie-type food. I like foodie-type food, but not enough to put up with the aesthetic experience and snob-factor that has grown up around a lot of such establishments over the last decade or two.
Except for BBQ, which should be in a cheap storefront with the cheapest tables and a smoker in clear view in the parking lot or around back. Any fancier experience than that and it's not real BBQ.
I don't have an answer for the empty ones that live on and on, though.
posted by everythings_interrelated at 12:56 PM on December 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
Except for BBQ, which should be in a cheap storefront with the cheapest tables and a smoker in clear view in the parking lot or around back. Any fancier experience than that and it's not real BBQ.
I don't have an answer for the empty ones that live on and on, though.
posted by everythings_interrelated at 12:56 PM on December 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
The list of reasons is super long - notably some people have questionable taste and make certain businesses very successful despite low quality. Also the vast majority of all food businesses fail, and pretty quickly. It sounds like this is in the future of the place youre describing.
If you exclude corporate spots/chains and franchises, even the successful spots only get by on something between money laundering and very fuzzy accounting, the exact nature of which would be determined by whether or not there is sufficient cash flow.
I grew up in a family bbq restaurant run by a guy people not-infrequently compared to the soup nazi (seriously i once saw him talk to a customer for 45 minutes bc the guy had the audacity to ask, as his first question "how is your sauce.") This means I spent a decent portion of my life eating at every bbq place we passed, regarldess of reputation, and i can say definitively that mediocrity, or even sub-standard offerings are the norm at many BBQ spots. Its really hard to do it well and consistently and at the scale required to supply a restaurant. Hell i was in Austin last month and ate an absurd amount of BBQ and while the overall level was certainly pretty high, not everything was great (Terry Blacks im looking at you) or even good (Salt Lick - glad i saw it but they should be ashamed of the brisket they were serving, and theyre not).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:57 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
If you exclude corporate spots/chains and franchises, even the successful spots only get by on something between money laundering and very fuzzy accounting, the exact nature of which would be determined by whether or not there is sufficient cash flow.
I grew up in a family bbq restaurant run by a guy people not-infrequently compared to the soup nazi (seriously i once saw him talk to a customer for 45 minutes bc the guy had the audacity to ask, as his first question "how is your sauce.") This means I spent a decent portion of my life eating at every bbq place we passed, regarldess of reputation, and i can say definitively that mediocrity, or even sub-standard offerings are the norm at many BBQ spots. Its really hard to do it well and consistently and at the scale required to supply a restaurant. Hell i was in Austin last month and ate an absurd amount of BBQ and while the overall level was certainly pretty high, not everything was great (Terry Blacks im looking at you) or even good (Salt Lick - glad i saw it but they should be ashamed of the brisket they were serving, and theyre not).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:57 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
Can confirm money laundering is a thing. My father was a chef & was approached by gentlemen in Australia to set up a Restaurant, about 20 years ago to set up a restaurant & run it for an incredibly good rate of pay about 20% above what would have been the going rate at the time, all he had to do was leave the bookkeeping to them & not ask any questions and he'd have had free rein. It's a great business to launder money through, cash purchases from some guy that comes to the back door with some ingredient is pretty common (the whole buying local from small business moment helps here too), throw in writing of food that's gone off, lots of casual staff, no real way to check just how many covers actually happened on a day that sort of thing. The guy that offered to set my Dad up grew & sold dope in a place it wasn't legal in and needed to launder the money.
Now not every mediocre place is a tax write off or a money laundering front, but if you're getting a cheap rent in a shitty location or own/inherited a building it's amazing how long a restaurant kind sort of kick along making just enough money to barely pay the bills each week. The medicore quality usually comes about because of the lack of money as you struggle to find cheaper ways to do things each month with less & less qualified staff.
posted by wwax at 1:24 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
Now not every mediocre place is a tax write off or a money laundering front, but if you're getting a cheap rent in a shitty location or own/inherited a building it's amazing how long a restaurant kind sort of kick along making just enough money to barely pay the bills each week. The medicore quality usually comes about because of the lack of money as you struggle to find cheaper ways to do things each month with less & less qualified staff.
posted by wwax at 1:24 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
There's a family run place here in town that's been here for ages. It's...OK, but nothing to write home about. It's nevertheless persisted for years and years and I'm convinced it's just because of inertia. Having survived just long enough during a period when there were zero alternatives close by (beyond fast food), it's managed to be come A Traditional Local Spot even though the food is pretty forgettable. When I say family-owned, I mean just that. It's a pretty big operation and well beyond ma-and-pa in back cooking, with eldest son working the register. But the place is always packed, so I guess they're making money. In any other location, though, I think they would have shuttered a long time ago.
posted by jquinby at 1:25 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by jquinby at 1:25 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
For a different angle, I will point out something that might affect this specific case. OP is a newcomer to New England, but FYI, bland food sells here. There are a lot of bland food eaters. I grew up without salt (!). There was a class at my college called Why New Englanders Love Bland Food.
So in addition to the very good points about the economics of restaurants that are made above--your "not interesting" might be someone else's "comforting."
posted by gideonfrog at 1:29 PM on December 9, 2019 [12 favorites]
So in addition to the very good points about the economics of restaurants that are made above--your "not interesting" might be someone else's "comforting."
posted by gideonfrog at 1:29 PM on December 9, 2019 [12 favorites]
On the other hand, a restaurant opened near our house last week that serves extremely bland Italian-American food. Last week it was packed with people who were checking out the new restaurant. We drove by it yesterday at the same time we'd eaten there a week ago, and there was one car in the parking lot. It may not survive very long, especially because there's a really good Italian-American restaurant a five-minute drive up the road.
I think a dearth of comparable restaurants can really carry mediocre restaurants for a long time. Our area lacks decent Indian, Thai, and Chinese restaurants. The only Indian restaurant in our area is . . . bad, compared to what I grew up with in an area with a large Indian population. But people love it and honestly we've come around to sometimes enjoying their food just because there's nothing else at all. I also think that tastes can be regional, and highly influenced by things like social media. I've noticed that restaurants I enjoy in terms of cuisine here (two hours North of NYC) are often short-lived, while places that appeal to local palates and heavily court locals on social media tend to last quite awhile. The quality of the food often feels shockingly bad to me, but I grew up within a half hour of NYC and so I've resigned myself to the idea that either these folks expect different flavor profiles than New Yorkers or nearly New Yorkers, or that they just don't expect any better. Cynically, I think the latter, but I'll begrudgingly accept the former.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:38 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
I think a dearth of comparable restaurants can really carry mediocre restaurants for a long time. Our area lacks decent Indian, Thai, and Chinese restaurants. The only Indian restaurant in our area is . . . bad, compared to what I grew up with in an area with a large Indian population. But people love it and honestly we've come around to sometimes enjoying their food just because there's nothing else at all. I also think that tastes can be regional, and highly influenced by things like social media. I've noticed that restaurants I enjoy in terms of cuisine here (two hours North of NYC) are often short-lived, while places that appeal to local palates and heavily court locals on social media tend to last quite awhile. The quality of the food often feels shockingly bad to me, but I grew up within a half hour of NYC and so I've resigned myself to the idea that either these folks expect different flavor profiles than New Yorkers or nearly New Yorkers, or that they just don't expect any better. Cynically, I think the latter, but I'll begrudgingly accept the former.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:38 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
I don't have any answer to your question, but I've long been puzzled why some restaurants are successful and popular, despite the fact that their food (in my opinion) is terrible. Case in point: There is a very trendy restaurant near my house. It specializes in vegan, organic, locally-grown food. It's always packed, and has tons of great reviews on Yelp. My wife and I eat there five or six times per year -- not because we like it, but because our social group likes to go there. But I'm baffled why the restaurant is successful. Parking is inconvenient. Service is slow and sometimes surly. And the food is worse than mediocre. I've sampled most of their menu, and there is exactly one item that I think is decent -- but it's a sandwich that falls apart easily and is very messy to eat. My wife dislikes the place, as well, and we're both mystified by their success. (Incidentally, I have nothing against vegan food, being vegan for 15 years. But some restaurants just don't know how to do it, and this is one of them.)
posted by alex1965 at 1:52 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by alex1965 at 1:52 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Local taste can mean that people don't know any better. I used to drive through a rural Ontario town that had a family diner (now closed) that was always packed when I passed. I stopped in once, and what food wasn't actually revolting was desperately bland. Their "Try Our Famous" rice pudding was gorge-risingly foul, tasting mostly of laundry detergent. I sent mine back, which caused quite a scene with the owner and the chef coming out, assuring me that It Was Supposed To Taste Like That and insinuating that the problem was me. I got something like $1 off the bill. The place was just on the edge of tobacco country, so maybe the locals were all smokers with no palate?
Special entrepreneur visas used to mean that there were lots of half-hearted sub shops near Toronto. It used to be that if you invested something pretty small (like $40K) in a business for a couple of years, you and your family got expedited residency. Food franchises were popular, with Mr Sub being about the cheapest. A Mr Sub staffed by lackadaisical young Iranians used to be a cliché around here. They'd close down as soon as the visa was safely through.
posted by scruss at 1:59 PM on December 9, 2019 [10 favorites]
Special entrepreneur visas used to mean that there were lots of half-hearted sub shops near Toronto. It used to be that if you invested something pretty small (like $40K) in a business for a couple of years, you and your family got expedited residency. Food franchises were popular, with Mr Sub being about the cheapest. A Mr Sub staffed by lackadaisical young Iranians used to be a cliché around here. They'd close down as soon as the visa was safely through.
posted by scruss at 1:59 PM on December 9, 2019 [10 favorites]
The vast majority of people have pretty basic needs in a restaurant. Look at all of the successful casual chains out there. No one would accuse Fridays or Olive Garden of being very interesting culinarily but they pack people in.
posted by octothorpe at 2:13 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 2:13 PM on December 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Chain restaurants are popular for a reason, and it isn't because the food is the best you can buy for the price. Some people want to know what they're going to get, want to have the same general experience every time, don't legitimately have a reference point in the same way you do for good/bad in this area, etc.
It's why a friend was just telling me they tried to stop at a Texas Roadhouse last week because work had given her a gift card, it was beyond packed for 45+ minutes, but this extremely excellent Russian restaurant was not at all and they got great food for the same price. The Russian restaurant isn't all weird food either, you can get exactly what you would get at Texas Roadhouse too.
So when you ask "Shouldn't only the strong survive?" what you're not considering is that not everyone defines strong in the same way. At all.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 2:17 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
It's why a friend was just telling me they tried to stop at a Texas Roadhouse last week because work had given her a gift card, it was beyond packed for 45+ minutes, but this extremely excellent Russian restaurant was not at all and they got great food for the same price. The Russian restaurant isn't all weird food either, you can get exactly what you would get at Texas Roadhouse too.
So when you ask "Shouldn't only the strong survive?" what you're not considering is that not everyone defines strong in the same way. At all.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 2:17 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
Running a restaurant isn't really about taste. It's about controlling costs for food, rent, keeping the place clean, and handling staffing and advertising. A person good at that can keep a place running for a very long time. The taste of the food and the atmosphere are totally subjective.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:17 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:17 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
Seconding The_Vegetables, I dropped in to say just the same thing.
I'm somewhere around twenty years in the restaurant industry—over half of that in management—and I've seen a lot of failure. Not too much money laundering, though.
It comes down to two numbers: what comes in and what goes out. Most restaurant owners I have known or worked for have not really appreciated this, spending money they didn't have.
Also, to be blunt (but hopefully not unkind) people like mediocre. It comforts them, maybe? I don't know.
posted by Time To Sharpen Our Knives at 2:36 PM on December 9, 2019 [6 favorites]
I'm somewhere around twenty years in the restaurant industry—over half of that in management—and I've seen a lot of failure. Not too much money laundering, though.
It comes down to two numbers: what comes in and what goes out. Most restaurant owners I have known or worked for have not really appreciated this, spending money they didn't have.
Also, to be blunt (but hopefully not unkind) people like mediocre. It comforts them, maybe? I don't know.
posted by Time To Sharpen Our Knives at 2:36 PM on December 9, 2019 [6 favorites]
Off-premises catering. I can think of a number of mediocre non-chain places that, despite having really empty dining rooms for one reason or another, manage to have robust catering businesses. There's a huge market for budget-friendly catering, and quality often competes with quantity, so really meh caterers can stay in business more easily than you may expect.
posted by blerghamot at 3:32 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by blerghamot at 3:32 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
It's funny you mentioned BBQ on the [more inside], because just reading the above-the-fold part of your question made me think of a BBQ place I know. And the food sounds similar, too. The meat and sauces are just OK, and the sides are... let's say uninspired. (Unlike your place, it's counter service, and seems to do brisk business.)
What it is, is a five-minute drive away from me, or if I'm feeling ambitious, a twenty-minute walk. Also there's a really good ice cream parlor next door.
I typically eat there once or twice a month.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:03 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
What it is, is a five-minute drive away from me, or if I'm feeling ambitious, a twenty-minute walk. Also there's a really good ice cream parlor next door.
I typically eat there once or twice a month.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:03 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
For answers to this and other questions I recommend An Economist Gets Lunch - New Rules for Everyday Foodies, by Tyler Cowen.
posted by Rash at 4:28 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by Rash at 4:28 PM on December 9, 2019
I will 100% vote for the medicore restaurant over the good restaurant the majority of the time if the mediocre restaurant has easy parking, isn't too overwhelming inside, and can generally accomodate a variety of dietary needs/restrictions. Middle of the road Mexican place with a parking lot, unlimited chips, and a willingness to make a vegan burrito? We're on!
posted by TwoStride at 4:45 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 4:45 PM on December 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
The only reason I didn't keep going to the exceedingly mediocre barbecue restaurant in my previous New York neighborhood, which I think recently reopened after getting shut down due to some sort of code violations, was that they did not provide and in fact did not even seem to have any barbecue sauce on the premises, just a weakly barbecue-like au jus. If they'd had actual barbecue sauce, I probably would've gone there again. The ciders were cheap (and sometimes on the house, when they didn't feel like ringing them up), the price was good, it was around the corner from my old place, I liked the open benches and outdoor seating, and the meat and fries were OK. There isn't a lot of barbecue in New York City, and there's an exceeding dearth of actual-good barbecue, so you kind of have to take what you can get if you're in the mood for that cuisine and don't feel like taking the train to a neighborhood with one of the better barbecue spots.
Similarly, the only reason I quit going to the sushi/ramen place on that same stretch of the street was that I realized their roe and seaweed salad were full of food coloring and I got mildly sick once or twice. I would've kept going there otherwise, 'cause it was fast and cheap and the cuisine I wanted to eat, even if it was all clearly prepped beforehand and reheated.
You might think that in a place as competitive as New York City, bad restaurants won't survive, but you'd be entirely wrong. People value convenience and being able to stick around their own neighborhood or micro neighborhood. I have written and edited food coverage and I know what's what when it comes to food, but I also absolutely do not care how fancy food is if it's reliable, nearby, the specific cuisine I want to eat, or at a venue I otherwise like for some reason. I appreciate fine dining but am completely not a snob about it.
Oh, also? I have yet to order from the barbecue place that's perhaps equidistant from me now, in my current neighborhood, because it doesn't have delivery, the hours are unclear/changing, and I'd have to walk over there in the cold, with a chance I wouldn't get barbecue when I finally arrive. Delivery, proximity, and reliability prop up a ton of otherwise entirely mediocre places.
posted by limeonaire at 5:21 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
Similarly, the only reason I quit going to the sushi/ramen place on that same stretch of the street was that I realized their roe and seaweed salad were full of food coloring and I got mildly sick once or twice. I would've kept going there otherwise, 'cause it was fast and cheap and the cuisine I wanted to eat, even if it was all clearly prepped beforehand and reheated.
You might think that in a place as competitive as New York City, bad restaurants won't survive, but you'd be entirely wrong. People value convenience and being able to stick around their own neighborhood or micro neighborhood. I have written and edited food coverage and I know what's what when it comes to food, but I also absolutely do not care how fancy food is if it's reliable, nearby, the specific cuisine I want to eat, or at a venue I otherwise like for some reason. I appreciate fine dining but am completely not a snob about it.
Oh, also? I have yet to order from the barbecue place that's perhaps equidistant from me now, in my current neighborhood, because it doesn't have delivery, the hours are unclear/changing, and I'd have to walk over there in the cold, with a chance I wouldn't get barbecue when I finally arrive. Delivery, proximity, and reliability prop up a ton of otherwise entirely mediocre places.
posted by limeonaire at 5:21 PM on December 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
There was a large busy bland restaurant in Bostons trendy Italian North End that had been an institution for decades. Then during the Big Dig while they were rewiring basically the entire city someone discovered they been illegally tapping into a main and had almost zero power costs. Closed soon after.
posted by sammyo at 5:57 PM on December 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 5:57 PM on December 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
Another example of how mediocre restaurants hold on is tradition. A place that's been open a very long time is a staple for many people who keep going there for the sociality, the routine, the habit. They may have stopped noticing the food quality.
This isn't just true of restaurants. Every industry has businesses that get along because they always have. I work in used records and we have one store in Toronto that has been around for 40 years -- and has been treating customers like shit for those 4 decades; ripping people off when the store buys their records and gouging people when they sell to them -- but they're still around because people who go there go there because they go there and newbies go there because "they must be good. They've been around 40 years!"
Call it tradition or nostalgia or whatever you want, but people go to the familiar.
posted by dobbs at 9:03 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
This isn't just true of restaurants. Every industry has businesses that get along because they always have. I work in used records and we have one store in Toronto that has been around for 40 years -- and has been treating customers like shit for those 4 decades; ripping people off when the store buys their records and gouging people when they sell to them -- but they're still around because people who go there go there because they go there and newbies go there because "they must be good. They've been around 40 years!"
Call it tradition or nostalgia or whatever you want, but people go to the familiar.
posted by dobbs at 9:03 PM on December 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
Scarcity can be a big thing, too. If, as has been mentioned in this thread, that type of food isn't widely available in the area, there's a good chance the restaurant is hanging on because it's one of the few options in that location for that type of food. Just as an example, but the quality of restaurants serving non-Japanese food in Japan varies wildly. A lot of it comes down to the fact that most people eating there (or at any of these locations) aren't familiar with the food, and just sort of assume that what they're eating is what the food is supposed to taste like. This works for Chinese food in Michigan, Mexican food in Tokyo, and so on, until you find yourself as a native midwesterner in China stunned at how weird the food is, and really, really wanting an egg roll.*
As far as restaurants that open and almost immediately close, though, I would say they're more than likely a very small minority, where something wasn't taken into account when opening in that location, and once it became apparent, the owner shut down, eating the start-up costs, rather than struggling against the obvious slow and expensive death that's sure to come.
*The secret ingredient of American Chinese egg rolls is peanut butter.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:12 PM on December 9, 2019
As far as restaurants that open and almost immediately close, though, I would say they're more than likely a very small minority, where something wasn't taken into account when opening in that location, and once it became apparent, the owner shut down, eating the start-up costs, rather than struggling against the obvious slow and expensive death that's sure to come.
*The secret ingredient of American Chinese egg rolls is peanut butter.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:12 PM on December 9, 2019
I mean it’s all relative, right? If a city has 10 Indian restaurants, even if all of them are great, one of them is bound to be the worst, right? But if a city can support 10 Indian restaurants, there’s not necessarily a reason the lowest-ranked one has to go out of business. After all, you’re talking about mediocre places, not places that are get-shut-down-by-the-health-department grody and awful.
Now, let’s say you set up a better Indian place right across the street from the lowest-ranked one. Well okay, now you have competition! Unless that neighborhood was below carrying capacity for Indian places, or else the old one has a loyal following, their days might be numbered.
posted by panama joe at 10:44 PM on December 9, 2019
Now, let’s say you set up a better Indian place right across the street from the lowest-ranked one. Well okay, now you have competition! Unless that neighborhood was below carrying capacity for Indian places, or else the old one has a loyal following, their days might be numbered.
posted by panama joe at 10:44 PM on December 9, 2019
A surprising number of people only really care about the "flavors" sugar, grease, and salt. Sugar, grease, and salt are much cheaper than good quality meat or fresh vegetables. Which explains breaded orange chicken at most American Chinese fast food places.
posted by benzenedream at 10:53 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by benzenedream at 10:53 PM on December 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Sometimes mediocre restaurants survive because they are nearby major hotel(s), and there are no other options within walking distance...
posted by Murderbot at 11:20 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by Murderbot at 11:20 PM on December 9, 2019
Also: some restaurants with bland or even disgusting food get by because they're making $$$,$$$ in alcohol sales...
posted by Murderbot at 11:22 PM on December 9, 2019
posted by Murderbot at 11:22 PM on December 9, 2019
Back in the day before online matchmaking services, my friend and I had a Friday night dating club which was hugely succesfull. We deliberately chose an unsuccessful café as the venue because we wanted the space which wasn't available at better places. Because the café was mediocre and depended on our Friday party, we could influence everything; the music, the food, the drinks, the design etc. We always thought we were owed a part when the café eventually became very popular, but the original owners sold the place, and the new owners didn't know anything about our influence.
All of that said, I once lived in a town where there were 0 / zero good restaurants. Right next to my house was a steak restaurant which was supposed to be the best place in town, and every time I walked the dog at night, I wondered at how the economy of that place worked, because there were rarely more than one or two small parties there. We often ate there, and we were often the only costumers. It turned out there were two reasons. The first and most important was that this is a pet project for a local billionaire. He really loves the place. The second is that they make a lot of money during the holiday season, and during summer because they are right next to a popular beach.
posted by mumimor at 6:24 AM on December 10, 2019
All of that said, I once lived in a town where there were 0 / zero good restaurants. Right next to my house was a steak restaurant which was supposed to be the best place in town, and every time I walked the dog at night, I wondered at how the economy of that place worked, because there were rarely more than one or two small parties there. We often ate there, and we were often the only costumers. It turned out there were two reasons. The first and most important was that this is a pet project for a local billionaire. He really loves the place. The second is that they make a lot of money during the holiday season, and during summer because they are right next to a popular beach.
posted by mumimor at 6:24 AM on December 10, 2019
there can be non-obvious variables on location, too.
There's a chain restaurant in the parking lot of a major tech company's building, in my town. Its food is not much to write home about. However, it's the only place to go if your team wants to have a happy hour; if you want to take a visitor somewhere they can get a beer; etc. Not because there aren't other places in a reasonable radius, but because parking around the campus is difficult and if you move your car someone's going to grab your spot. So people who have no interest in that place's crummy food still wind up there.
Not saying this specific scenario applies to the place you mention but there may be others. Proximity to highway; to typical commute routes "home"; relative ease of parking; proximity to other businesses that families use...
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:30 AM on December 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
There's a chain restaurant in the parking lot of a major tech company's building, in my town. Its food is not much to write home about. However, it's the only place to go if your team wants to have a happy hour; if you want to take a visitor somewhere they can get a beer; etc. Not because there aren't other places in a reasonable radius, but because parking around the campus is difficult and if you move your car someone's going to grab your spot. So people who have no interest in that place's crummy food still wind up there.
Not saying this specific scenario applies to the place you mention but there may be others. Proximity to highway; to typical commute routes "home"; relative ease of parking; proximity to other businesses that families use...
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:30 AM on December 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also: some restaurants with bland or even disgusting food get by because they're making $$$,$$$ in alcohol sales...
Many (most) cities have different licensing/zoning requirements between bar (mostly drinks) and restaurant (mostly food), so alcohol sales, which can be a boon since the markup is so high PLUS some creative accounting (diminishing alcohol sales vs food) can prop up a poor performer, and booze accounting fraud is more common than actual mob money laundering.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on December 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
Many (most) cities have different licensing/zoning requirements between bar (mostly drinks) and restaurant (mostly food), so alcohol sales, which can be a boon since the markup is so high PLUS some creative accounting (diminishing alcohol sales vs food) can prop up a poor performer, and booze accounting fraud is more common than actual mob money laundering.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on December 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also there could be other variables at play. There's a local diner by me that is open 24 hours, the food isn't great, but they are a local pie supplier so if they're going to be open and baking at all hours anyways, it's not too different to have a cook and a server around. Plus it's pretty much the only place that's open 24 hours so they get a lot of traffic when things are closed around them. The food isn't amazing, better than Denny's but not exactly stunning, but they serve a niche and it seems to be more of a bonus business than their main focus, so it works.
posted by Carillon at 9:14 AM on December 10, 2019
posted by Carillon at 9:14 AM on December 10, 2019
Keep in mind that there is a market for bland food, especially among older folks and families with kids. Basic warm food with an inoffensive texture is preferred by some and at least tolerated by most. See: IHOP, Luby's, Golden Corral, Boston Market, etc, etc.
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:29 AM on December 10, 2019
posted by FakeFreyja at 9:29 AM on December 10, 2019
And there's tradition and predictability. And lots of choice.
I have lived for over 40 years in the old South. There used to me a number of small, family run restaurants called in the vernacular "meat-and-threes." For one price you could have your choice of a number of meats and three sides of vegetables. The food wasn't special but it was clean, fast, and priced right. Most of these have gone out of business--property expenses, owners grew too old and the children didn't want to continue, who knows? But in my city there's a small chain that is very popular and serves "meat-and-threes." Meats might be roast chicken, fried chicken, fried pork chop, meat loaf, fried catfish, a salmon patty, et al (Typically 12 choices each day) and vegetables would include collards, cole slaw, okra and tomatoes, mac and cheese, rice and gravy, mashed potatoes and gravy, lima beans, green beans, and on and on. (Over 25 choices.) They bake their own corn bread muffins and biscuits. Or you can also get just vegetables, or soup, a hamburger, grilled cheese, etc.
Nothing special but not as processed as fast food AND you sit down, are waited on, and eat with a knife and fork. The food is what your mother or grandmother made, especially if you grew up in a big family. A step into the past. Good enough for now and then at lunch.
The chain's name: Lizard's Thicket. What's it mean? No idea. To me: lunch! If this sounds good to you and you're in Columbia, SC, find one. There are 14 locations. Tip the server!
posted by tmdonahue at 6:42 AM on December 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
I have lived for over 40 years in the old South. There used to me a number of small, family run restaurants called in the vernacular "meat-and-threes." For one price you could have your choice of a number of meats and three sides of vegetables. The food wasn't special but it was clean, fast, and priced right. Most of these have gone out of business--property expenses, owners grew too old and the children didn't want to continue, who knows? But in my city there's a small chain that is very popular and serves "meat-and-threes." Meats might be roast chicken, fried chicken, fried pork chop, meat loaf, fried catfish, a salmon patty, et al (Typically 12 choices each day) and vegetables would include collards, cole slaw, okra and tomatoes, mac and cheese, rice and gravy, mashed potatoes and gravy, lima beans, green beans, and on and on. (Over 25 choices.) They bake their own corn bread muffins and biscuits. Or you can also get just vegetables, or soup, a hamburger, grilled cheese, etc.
Nothing special but not as processed as fast food AND you sit down, are waited on, and eat with a knife and fork. The food is what your mother or grandmother made, especially if you grew up in a big family. A step into the past. Good enough for now and then at lunch.
The chain's name: Lizard's Thicket. What's it mean? No idea. To me: lunch! If this sounds good to you and you're in Columbia, SC, find one. There are 14 locations. Tip the server!
posted by tmdonahue at 6:42 AM on December 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Cheap rent, and abusive staffing policies can get you pretty far.
posted by furnace.heart at 12:28 PM on December 9, 2019 [15 favorites]