Is subcontracting your own work ethical?
December 5, 2019 4:16 PM Subscribe
Let's say I'm a teapot-maker. I've just been hired to do something that has nothing to do with teapots and I'm terrible at it. Can I pay someone else to do it?
My teapots have appeared in museums, and I am often hired to make them for a lot of money. I was recently hired by a client who sells teapots. He saw my teapots and loved them, but told me he didn't have a ton of money. I negotiated to a place where the price was a lot less than I normally get for my teapots, but enough that I'd be willing to take on the commission. This was for an ongoing contract with no end date, but likely through the end of the year. We didn't discuss what I would be doing, but I've made teapots for lots of people, I am a teapot maker, and I assumed I would be making teapots.
I arrive at the store and find that instead of making teapots, they want me to replace their ceiling tiles. I am probably capable of this, because I have two hands and can google things, but a) I don't remotely have the skills or tools to do it well, so I will take far longer than a tile replacer, b) They already told me money is tight, so why pay me a far higher rate than they wanted to pay when they could hire a far-less-skilled person to do the work as well or better than I could for a quarter or less of the price (not exaggerating), and c) (this is less important, but not unimportant) I make amazing teapots and have no interest in ceiling-tile replacement, no interest in a long-term job at a lower rate doing so, and feel fairly insulted that I was brought in to do this thing just because, as they put it to me, "they need warm bodies".
I spoke to the person who hired me, first asking if there was some mistake, and then asking very clearly whether they are comfortable with paying me $XXX to do something that someone else could do for $X - especially when it will take me 2-3 times longer than the $X person because I will be learning on the job and it's completely out of my skill set. They said they are fine with it because that's what they need. I did everything I could to make it clear that this wasn't something I ought to be doing, without actually quitting, and not only did they not take the bait, they dangled the possibility that if it goes well, they'd love to have me stay on into next year, possibly doing something more like (but still not) making teapots. Oh joy.
Meanwhile in the days since I started, he's already dropped hints that while of course he understands that it will take me longer to do the work, it's taking me longer than he was hoping.
It would be fairly easy for me to hire someone to do this task for $X or $XX. I do not think the store would find this out. But it feels unethical to me to take their money and then outsource the work. Or is this something people do all the time, and since I'll be quality-controlling the final product, and responsible for fixing any errors, and the client gets what they need sooner than if I had done it solo (saving them money in the long run), it's all copacetic?
My teapots have appeared in museums, and I am often hired to make them for a lot of money. I was recently hired by a client who sells teapots. He saw my teapots and loved them, but told me he didn't have a ton of money. I negotiated to a place where the price was a lot less than I normally get for my teapots, but enough that I'd be willing to take on the commission. This was for an ongoing contract with no end date, but likely through the end of the year. We didn't discuss what I would be doing, but I've made teapots for lots of people, I am a teapot maker, and I assumed I would be making teapots.
I arrive at the store and find that instead of making teapots, they want me to replace their ceiling tiles. I am probably capable of this, because I have two hands and can google things, but a) I don't remotely have the skills or tools to do it well, so I will take far longer than a tile replacer, b) They already told me money is tight, so why pay me a far higher rate than they wanted to pay when they could hire a far-less-skilled person to do the work as well or better than I could for a quarter or less of the price (not exaggerating), and c) (this is less important, but not unimportant) I make amazing teapots and have no interest in ceiling-tile replacement, no interest in a long-term job at a lower rate doing so, and feel fairly insulted that I was brought in to do this thing just because, as they put it to me, "they need warm bodies".
I spoke to the person who hired me, first asking if there was some mistake, and then asking very clearly whether they are comfortable with paying me $XXX to do something that someone else could do for $X - especially when it will take me 2-3 times longer than the $X person because I will be learning on the job and it's completely out of my skill set. They said they are fine with it because that's what they need. I did everything I could to make it clear that this wasn't something I ought to be doing, without actually quitting, and not only did they not take the bait, they dangled the possibility that if it goes well, they'd love to have me stay on into next year, possibly doing something more like (but still not) making teapots. Oh joy.
Meanwhile in the days since I started, he's already dropped hints that while of course he understands that it will take me longer to do the work, it's taking me longer than he was hoping.
It would be fairly easy for me to hire someone to do this task for $X or $XX. I do not think the store would find this out. But it feels unethical to me to take their money and then outsource the work. Or is this something people do all the time, and since I'll be quality-controlling the final product, and responsible for fixing any errors, and the client gets what they need sooner than if I had done it solo (saving them money in the long run), it's all copacetic?
You're a contractor, not an employee. Hiring a sub-contractor is both completely ethical and totally normal. And don't let anyone tell you it's "different in the arts" because it's not, at all. People have teams, people send work out for fabrication etc.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:21 PM on December 5, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 4:21 PM on December 5, 2019 [14 favorites]
It's hard to know because this varies from sector to sector, but in most industries this is normal and even expected. In mine it's quite standard for a firm to subcontract tasks requiring expertise that they don't have, which makes the contracting firm effectively a project manager. You would be responsible for ensuring that the ceiling tiling is done to the standard required (even though you, teapot maker, don't know how to do it), and you wear the risk.
Is it ethical? As long as everyone gets paid a fair and correct rate for the work, absolutely: which is the problem in my country and industry: subcontracting is a primary means of fraud, wage theft and underpayment. All you need to do is find out what the fair rate is, and pay it (or better).
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:23 PM on December 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
Is it ethical? As long as everyone gets paid a fair and correct rate for the work, absolutely: which is the problem in my country and industry: subcontracting is a primary means of fraud, wage theft and underpayment. All you need to do is find out what the fair rate is, and pay it (or better).
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:23 PM on December 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
I also think it’s fine to sub it out. I’d tell your contact, if asked, that you need to bring someone in to do the work with you as you have many teapot orders to attend to and then make sure to get a few bids so you don’t end up paying someone for an overage!
posted by amanda at 4:38 PM on December 5, 2019
posted by amanda at 4:38 PM on December 5, 2019
If you're working under 1099 rules in the US, legally they have no say in the way you accomplish the tasks you've been hired to do.
posted by rhizome at 4:58 PM on December 5, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 4:58 PM on December 5, 2019 [7 favorites]
Yeah, subcontracting is totally standard and something I do all the time in my own teapot industry. Sometimes the client knows, sometimes they don't. This is totally above-the-board.
But I also think you'd be totally within your rights to email something like,
"Thank you again for coming to me with this project.
Because my skillset is in teapots, I was expecting a teapot-only project.
When I discovered that the requirement is for ceiling tiles, I wanted to execute the ceiling tile project in good faith for you.
However, as I'm diving in further, I need to let you know that because it's not within my wheelhouse, I am not the right solution for this work and the project needs to be cancelled.
I wish you all the best with the project. Best wishes, Me"
It doesn't sound like you want / need to work with this person again, which is why I'm raising this possibility. If this was a client that was going to have a ton of teapot work in the future, I'd recommend subcontracting to keep the relationship warm.
But subcontracting involves, you know, FINDING and MANAGING someone [and involves risk - if they don't deliver, if their budget is higher than expected, if their skillset isn't up to par], so you're also fine bowing out if your agreement was for teapot work. They might be angry or frustrated, but it kinda sounds like they deceived you a bit (?)
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 5:05 PM on December 5, 2019 [17 favorites]
But I also think you'd be totally within your rights to email something like,
"Thank you again for coming to me with this project.
Because my skillset is in teapots, I was expecting a teapot-only project.
When I discovered that the requirement is for ceiling tiles, I wanted to execute the ceiling tile project in good faith for you.
However, as I'm diving in further, I need to let you know that because it's not within my wheelhouse, I am not the right solution for this work and the project needs to be cancelled.
I wish you all the best with the project. Best wishes, Me"
It doesn't sound like you want / need to work with this person again, which is why I'm raising this possibility. If this was a client that was going to have a ton of teapot work in the future, I'd recommend subcontracting to keep the relationship warm.
But subcontracting involves, you know, FINDING and MANAGING someone [and involves risk - if they don't deliver, if their budget is higher than expected, if their skillset isn't up to par], so you're also fine bowing out if your agreement was for teapot work. They might be angry or frustrated, but it kinda sounds like they deceived you a bit (?)
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 5:05 PM on December 5, 2019 [17 favorites]
Is the person who hired you sophisticated enough to google and hire a ceiling tile replacer?
Is there some aspect of your teapot making that they want you to bring to the ceiling tile replacement? Like, sure, you think your teapot making is orthogonal to this ceiling tile replacement job, but maybe for some reason they want something a little different. If they just hired a ceiling tile replacer, that’s all they’re going to get, but with a teapot maker on the job, a little magic might happen.
Or I’m completely out to lunch and you should outsource.
posted by thenormshow at 5:06 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Is there some aspect of your teapot making that they want you to bring to the ceiling tile replacement? Like, sure, you think your teapot making is orthogonal to this ceiling tile replacement job, but maybe for some reason they want something a little different. If they just hired a ceiling tile replacer, that’s all they’re going to get, but with a teapot maker on the job, a little magic might happen.
Or I’m completely out to lunch and you should outsource.
posted by thenormshow at 5:06 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
It's totally fine to sub-contract it out. That's how people run businesses. But it's super weird that they hired you for this job. I mean, I wouldn't hire an electrician and then tell them to mind my kids for a few hours. They might be a great nanny but it's not the skill set they are offering.
Make sure you don't do anything that puts your health or safety at risk. Sub-contracting it seems a much better option all round to avoid this. I'm guessing the making teapots skill set doesn't really overlap with the fixing ceiling tiles skill set. Clearly they really wanted to pay you for something.
posted by kitten magic at 5:09 PM on December 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
Make sure you don't do anything that puts your health or safety at risk. Sub-contracting it seems a much better option all round to avoid this. I'm guessing the making teapots skill set doesn't really overlap with the fixing ceiling tiles skill set. Clearly they really wanted to pay you for something.
posted by kitten magic at 5:09 PM on December 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
If you have a contract with them, make sure there's nothing in there that says you won't sub-contract the work. For example, in my freelance contracts, I state that all work will be completed by me.
If that checks out, then yes it's ethical.
Personally though, I would decline the job if at all possible. The client misled (or outright lied to) you about the scope and parameters of the job. But I suppose that since you're partially through the project, it would make sense to just bring someone in to finish it. I just wouldn't want to be responsible for someone else's work.
posted by hydra77 at 5:36 PM on December 5, 2019 [5 favorites]
If that checks out, then yes it's ethical.
Personally though, I would decline the job if at all possible. The client misled (or outright lied to) you about the scope and parameters of the job. But I suppose that since you're partially through the project, it would make sense to just bring someone in to finish it. I just wouldn't want to be responsible for someone else's work.
posted by hydra77 at 5:36 PM on December 5, 2019 [5 favorites]
Make sure that any NDA that you may have signed will cover this (if you signed one). Also, be aware that in some fields (programming, In particular, but also most marketing gigs and many creative things) there will be really serious issues with releasing intellectual property to an undisclosed third party.
If you’re in the clear on the agreements and representations you’ve made, then sure, it’s perfectly ethical to do the work as you see fit.
posted by jenkinsEar at 5:52 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
If you’re in the clear on the agreements and representations you’ve made, then sure, it’s perfectly ethical to do the work as you see fit.
posted by jenkinsEar at 5:52 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Seconding the other people here saying that you don't have to take this work.
I agree that subcontracting is a perfectly legit and legal way to operate. If you're a teapot maker who doesn't know much about ceiling tiles, but you are also a born project manager with a tolerance for risk and a good pool of reputable ceiling tile specialists to choose from, I'd say go for it.
BUT this client seems to be an odd mix of clueless and demanding. If things go wrong (above and beyond getting started too slowly for their liking), are you ready to deal with them? Will you actually enjoy the challenge?
Gracefully exiting (see Uncle Glendinning's draft letter) is an option. The client may be unhappy if you leave, and they may speak badly of you in the ceiling tile community, but that's not your community, is it?
posted by maudlin at 6:19 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
I agree that subcontracting is a perfectly legit and legal way to operate. If you're a teapot maker who doesn't know much about ceiling tiles, but you are also a born project manager with a tolerance for risk and a good pool of reputable ceiling tile specialists to choose from, I'd say go for it.
BUT this client seems to be an odd mix of clueless and demanding. If things go wrong (above and beyond getting started too slowly for their liking), are you ready to deal with them? Will you actually enjoy the challenge?
Gracefully exiting (see Uncle Glendinning's draft letter) is an option. The client may be unhappy if you leave, and they may speak badly of you in the ceiling tile community, but that's not your community, is it?
posted by maudlin at 6:19 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile in the days since I started, he's already dropped hints that while of course he understands that it will take me longer to do the work, it's taking me longer than he was hoping.
This is really your opening to say "Well that's because I'm not a ceiling tiler which you are aware of. I have cleared it with XYZ person and this will take however long it takes"
Agree with other people, unless this is skilled craftsmanship where they were hoping to say "This was done by my left sock" it's fine to bring on someone else. I am presuming this may be some sort of computer work in which case it's absolutely fine.
posted by jessamyn at 6:29 PM on December 5, 2019
This is really your opening to say "Well that's because I'm not a ceiling tiler which you are aware of. I have cleared it with XYZ person and this will take however long it takes"
Agree with other people, unless this is skilled craftsmanship where they were hoping to say "This was done by my left sock" it's fine to bring on someone else. I am presuming this may be some sort of computer work in which case it's absolutely fine.
posted by jessamyn at 6:29 PM on December 5, 2019
I think it's hard to answer this without de-euphemizing it. If "making teapots" means "painting portraits" and "replacing tiles" means "painting landscapes", then I think you have an obligation not to subcontract (or at least, not to do it covertly); part of what the customer might be paying for is the knowledge that you specifically are doing the work, someone with your level of skill has produced each detail, etc. OTOH, if "making teapots" means "building a house" and "replacing tiles" means "demo'ing a house", then yes, fine, I don't think there's a presumption that you personally would be doing the whole job yourself to begin with.
There's of course a whole continuum between and beyond these.
posted by The Notorious B.F.G. at 7:03 PM on December 5, 2019 [9 favorites]
There's of course a whole continuum between and beyond these.
posted by The Notorious B.F.G. at 7:03 PM on December 5, 2019 [9 favorites]
They "just need warm bodies"? Yeah. Walk away. If you want to be nice about it, call around, find the ceiling tile person and get a bid. "I make teapots, this lady does ceiling tiles. This is what she charges. Good luck."
You will never get treated well by someone just looking for warm bodies.
posted by sexyrobot at 8:00 PM on December 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
You will never get treated well by someone just looking for warm bodies.
posted by sexyrobot at 8:00 PM on December 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
None of this makes any sense. Why are they hiring someone with no experience who is comparatively expensive when they could get someone skilled in the work and pay them less to do it in a fraction of the time? The warm body comment doesn’t hold.
Why are you agreeing to a job you don’t know how to do, don’t want to do and are doing at a vastly reduced rate than your normal skill set? Go back to teapots and charge what you’re worth. What’s the point of outsourcing the ceiling tile installation, you’re still liable to project manage a job you know very little about. So many questions. (All of which could possibly be made easier to answer if you didn’t talk in riddles about what the skill set was...) Either way, there’s still not much in it for you. From their end, it sounds fishy and I’d walk away from the whole thing.
posted by Jubey at 8:16 PM on December 5, 2019 [11 favorites]
Why are you agreeing to a job you don’t know how to do, don’t want to do and are doing at a vastly reduced rate than your normal skill set? Go back to teapots and charge what you’re worth. What’s the point of outsourcing the ceiling tile installation, you’re still liable to project manage a job you know very little about. So many questions. (All of which could possibly be made easier to answer if you didn’t talk in riddles about what the skill set was...) Either way, there’s still not much in it for you. From their end, it sounds fishy and I’d walk away from the whole thing.
posted by Jubey at 8:16 PM on December 5, 2019 [11 favorites]
Most generic contractor agreements explicitly state that this might happen. Does yours? Assuming so, go for it! If not, I'd at least inform the client and see if they object.
posted by salvia at 9:34 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 9:34 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
I wouldn’t do this because:
- The opportunity cost is high
- Subcontracting is time-consuming and, depending on what “ceiling tiles” refers to, legally problematic
- They shady
posted by jessca84 at 9:34 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
- The opportunity cost is high
- Subcontracting is time-consuming and, depending on what “ceiling tiles” refers to, legally problematic
- They shady
posted by jessca84 at 9:34 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Without knowing exactly what the teapots and tiles actually are, one possibility is that the shop owner wants to be able to brag to friends and/or customers that they have tiles hung by noted teapot artist My Left Sock. If that's true and the outsourcing ever came out, the reputational damage and/or drama might not be worth the meager commission you're getting.
posted by Candleman at 9:10 AM on December 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Candleman at 9:10 AM on December 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think you are ethically obliged to treat employees well, whether they are contractors or any other variety of employee. Your obligation to the person who has hired you, whether employer or customer, is to produce good work.
If it's work that will be signed, you must be not claim that it was produced by your hand, or allow others to do so, but it may be represented as coming from your shop. I think this matters for art and craft, much less so for ceiling tiles, databases, web sites, widgets.
posted by theora55 at 10:58 AM on December 6, 2019
If it's work that will be signed, you must be not claim that it was produced by your hand, or allow others to do so, but it may be represented as coming from your shop. I think this matters for art and craft, much less so for ceiling tiles, databases, web sites, widgets.
posted by theora55 at 10:58 AM on December 6, 2019
as they put it to me, "they need warm bodies"
Was this said by the person that hired you or someone of their staff? If it's the latter, it sounds more like they're annoyed that the owner hired you rather than letting them take care if it the way they wanted to.
More on the ethics of passing the work off as your own - it also depends on the nature of your work and industry. If I go to a painter that's notable enough to hang in my local museum but not being internationally renown and commission them to do a painting for me, I would probably reasonably expect someone at that level to do the majority of the work rather than someone else. But if I buy a Thomas Kinkade or Kehinde Wiley, I'd expect them to be partially done by a workshop with some work done by the named artist. The whole asking you to do something outside of your area of expertise throws that off so some extent, but it feels like it would be more ethical to connect them to someone that will both do the work and get credit for it than to put your name on outsourced work in this case.
Being rid of the whole thing also has the advantage of keeping people from finding out that you now do tile replacement (at a discount to your pottery) and requesting that you do it for them as well.
posted by Candleman at 1:51 PM on December 6, 2019
Was this said by the person that hired you or someone of their staff? If it's the latter, it sounds more like they're annoyed that the owner hired you rather than letting them take care if it the way they wanted to.
More on the ethics of passing the work off as your own - it also depends on the nature of your work and industry. If I go to a painter that's notable enough to hang in my local museum but not being internationally renown and commission them to do a painting for me, I would probably reasonably expect someone at that level to do the majority of the work rather than someone else. But if I buy a Thomas Kinkade or Kehinde Wiley, I'd expect them to be partially done by a workshop with some work done by the named artist. The whole asking you to do something outside of your area of expertise throws that off so some extent, but it feels like it would be more ethical to connect them to someone that will both do the work and get credit for it than to put your name on outsourced work in this case.
Being rid of the whole thing also has the advantage of keeping people from finding out that you now do tile replacement (at a discount to your pottery) and requesting that you do it for them as well.
posted by Candleman at 1:51 PM on December 6, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kindall at 4:20 PM on December 5, 2019 [24 favorites]